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Who is going to have a BAD year?

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Old
08-20-2008, 06:08 PM
  #76
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Old
08-20-2008, 09:05 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by habdynasty View Post
koivu, the little guy will be retiring next summer.
The little warrior could surprise you and we all..

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08-20-2008, 09:29 PM
  #78
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I think we will see a slight drop in Plekanec's production due to Kovalev not repeating last year's amazing season.

That being said I have no worries about anyone... pure optimism baby!

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Old
08-20-2008, 10:43 PM
  #79
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I say Plekanec... he scares me man

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Old
08-21-2008, 01:33 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Habitants View Post
surprised no one said latendresse, i guess he is a know failure by all now! lol

im gonna go with laraque
My first reaction too! Well it took 62 posts. He is getting better already.

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Old
08-21-2008, 05:42 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by habdynasty View Post
koivu, the little guy will be retiring next summer.
I could unfortunately see this happening, but it would surprise me...

If the Habs win the cup though, I wouldn't be surprised if he did.

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Old
08-21-2008, 07:38 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by GoHabsGo247 View Post
Couldn't agree more!

Ballard & Boynton for Jokinen? We have the depth to easily blow that out of the water, and come out a much better team. I'd much rather have Jokinen then Sundin.
What would you have offered to blow that deal out of the water?

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08-21-2008, 07:43 AM
  #83
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I could unfortunately see this happening, but it would surprise me...

If the Habs win the cup though, I wouldn't be surprised if he did.
Agreed on both counts.

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Old
08-21-2008, 07:50 AM
  #84
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What would you have offered to blow that deal out of the water?
When I hear about deals like that, I usually figure, hmm, I was way off on that guy's value, because I assume the worst GM is smarter than me. Boynton is a guy who was on waivers, but waiver players who aren't 'that' bad, gain value as they get later in their deals. Ballard's a good solid d man.

I think the general perception of Jokinen by fans is much higher than by GM's. I wouldn't send them Komisarek and pick one of our Dandy,Bouillon, Halak, or whoever they would've tried to include, most probably a young C. If I thought Komisarek wouldn't sign here, maybe I would but....

Easy to say now when I wonder more about Jokinen.

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08-21-2008, 07:56 AM
  #85
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I think fans overrate guys just on numbers. Jokinin puts up good numbers, as high as 90, but he gets all the first line and PP time he wants. On a good team he'll get less and his numbers will suffer.

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Old
08-21-2008, 02:54 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
I think fans overrate guys just on numbers. Jokinin puts up good numbers, as high as 90, but he gets all the first line and PP time he wants. On a good team he'll get less and his numbers will suffer.
Sundin wouldn't do very good here on this logic either then, correct?

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Old
08-21-2008, 06:21 PM
  #87
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Probably Koivu

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Old
08-21-2008, 08:19 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
I think fans overrate guys just on numbers. Jokinin puts up good numbers, as high as 90, but he gets all the first line and PP time he wants. On a good team he'll get less and his numbers will suffer.
So you don't think Jokinen would get 1st line ice time or moocho PP time with the Habs?

On a good team, he cracks 100 points.

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Old
08-21-2008, 09:08 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
When I hear about deals like that, I usually figure, hmm, I was way off on that guy's value, because I assume the worst GM is smarter than me. Boynton is a guy who was on waivers, but waiver players who aren't 'that' bad, gain value as they get later in their deals. Ballard's a good solid d man.

I think the general perception of Jokinen by fans is much higher than by GM's. I wouldn't send them Komisarek and pick one of our Dandy,Bouillon, Halak, or whoever they would've tried to include, most probably a young C. If I thought Komisarek wouldn't sign here, maybe I would but....

Easy to say now when I wonder more about Jokinen.
I don't think it was fair value for Florida, but I don't think Montreal was in a position to offer much more. If Florida wants a young proven D, then it's as you said: Komisarek. So dealing for Jokinen under those circumstances fills a less pressing hole while opening what would be a gaping hole on defense.

In my mind, Ballard's a good defenseman. Probably a legit number two in a few years. I'd say Jokinen's worth two support players of Ballard's calibre.

I think the lack of return had more to do with the market than with Jokinen himself. The market, as it stands, is big on defensemen. Centers with size was the market 5 years ago. Now you've got Jokinen, Marleau, Sundin all seemingly available in a short time frame. And who needs a C?

Let's take a look around the league, just for fun:

NE: Montreal (Plekanec, Koivu); Ottawa (Spezza, Fisher/Vermette); Buffalo (Roy, Connolly); Toronto (they need everything, really); Boston (Savard, Bergeron).

Atlantic: Philly (Briere, Richards, Carter); NYI (rebuilding); NYR (Gomez, Drury), NJ (Elias/Parise, Zajac); Pitts (Crosby, Malkin)

SE: Washington (Backstrom, Nylander); TB (Lecavalier, Stamkos); ATL (a need, but Jokinen ain't going inter-division, and ATL has limited assets to cough up thanks to multiple blunders); Carolina (Staal, Brind'Amour)

See, in looking at the East alone, we've had Stamkos, Crosby, Malkin, Carter, Richards, Roy, Plekanec, Staal, Backstrom, Parise, Bergeron and Zajac emerge in just the last couple of years. That's tremendous amounts of talent progression.

In the West, we've got:

NW: Edmonton (Horcoff, Cogliano/Gagner); Calgary (Langkow, Lombardi); Minnesota (Koivu, Belanger); Vancouver (Sedin, ?)

Pacific: SJ (Thornton, Marleau/Pavelski); Anaheim (Getzlaf, Morrison); PHX (eventual fit); Dallas (Ribeiro, Richards, Modano)

Central: DET (Datsyuk/Zetterberg, Filppula/Franzen); Columbus (a need); St.Louis (Tkachuk; McDonald); Chicago (Toews, Lang); NSH (Arnott, Legwand).

So there's a few teams in the West who can use a good big C. Notably in the NW, where Minny, Calgary, and Vancouver could use Jokinen.

So we've got 3 teams total that need a C, aside from Phoenix.

Calgary - assets include Regehr, Phaneuf, Iginla, Tanguay;
Vancouver - assets include Bieksa, Salo, Edler, Sedin twins;
Minnesota - assets include Gaborik, Bouchard, Koivu, Burns, Johnsson

Calgary's not in terrible shape with Langkow and Lombardi down the middle. Granted, it's not ideal, and from rumours they were in the hunt for Jokinen and were throwing out a package surrounding Tanguay, but it was evident Jacques Martin wants to build on the blueline. And Calgary has nothing to spare there.

Vancouver has Bieksa to spare; others are either damaged (as Bieksa is, too), or unproven. Bieksa himself is damaged--too damaged, and unproven for Jokinen.

Minnesota has no young defenseman that is roughly Ballard's equivalent. Burns is invaluable, and the forward group is too necessary within Minny as it stands.

Phoenix was the only team in the league, I'd argue, who had the young proven defenseman, who also had a very real need for Jokinen.

So we've got a market that isn't in desperate need of Jokinen, but is in desperate need of high-end defensemen. Florida wants/needs a defenseman when dealing Jokinen, likely--I suspect--as a safeguard against Bouwmeester's departure.

Even Montreal, who could use Jokinen, does not need him. And they certainly wouldn't want to part with Komisarek for him, despite the fact that Jokinen is, in all likelihood, a better player and better talent than Komisarek. It's just the market as it is now.

So I don't think Jokinen's value is low in the minds of GMs relative to fans so much as the value for Cs is low in the minds of GMs relative to defensemen.

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Old
08-21-2008, 10:02 PM
  #90
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I guess Florida just couldn't roll players into futures forever. Still, I wonder if GM's get a feeeling about a player, makes them less likely to overpay. Marleau might be approaching this category, as he's a guy I've heard so many contradictory opinions about, I'm not sure what I think anymore. Well, I know what I think, great skills, good player.

Calgary was rumoured for so long regarding Jokininen, I have to believe they were set on offering futures, or Tanguay, neither of which interested Florida.

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Old
12-22-2008, 10:42 AM
  #91
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bump!

Plekanec is having a bad year to date, Kovy is starting to pick it up, Higgins is sub par....

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Old
12-22-2008, 10:50 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by ASSAF HABS AWISS View Post
bump!

Plekanec is having a bad year to date, Kovy is starting to pick it up, Higgins is sub par....
Both Kostitsyns have subpar year as well... Nobody saw it it seems.

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Old
12-22-2008, 11:11 AM
  #93
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Both Kostitsyns have subpar year as well... Nobody saw it it seems.
IMHO, Andrei Kostitsyn is having a very good year. He's still not producing on the PP, but he has been fantastic at even strength.

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Old
12-22-2008, 11:51 AM
  #94
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IMHO, Andrei Kostitsyn is having a very good year. He's still not producing on the PP, but he has been fantastic at even strength.
I wouldn't call it a very good year after the two injuries he suffered before the half-way mark and the sub-par production he gave us. He had a good stretch with Koivu but had not gotten a point in the last 5 games before getting injured. That's not last year's Kostitsyn who was very constant from the moment he was placed on a line with Plek and Kovalev. Now, I can overlook his poor production because that line has not worked all year, but he still got those injuries.

Overall, I'm dissapointed by the Kostys and Higgins, but I'm very dissapointed Plekanec. He's playing even worse than in last year's playoff in my opinion and his a complete non-factor on the ice. I hope he gets his **** together. But let's look at the bright side, if he doesn't, he won't cost us a lot of money this offseason.

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Old
12-22-2008, 11:55 AM
  #95
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Plekanec

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Old
12-22-2008, 12:10 PM
  #96
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Well, I was listening to PJ Stock a few minutes ago and according to him and his infinite objective wisdow, everyone will have a bad year. Montréal lost their first right winger (Ryder), their first goaltender (Huet), their third point scorer (Streit), ect. When the other guy in studio started making fun of him for calling Ryder the team's first rigth winger all Stock could give for a response what repeating it, very, slowly. Michael, Ryder, was, the, Habs, first, right, winger. And then he went on to say that Jagr's departure from Manhattan meant less to his former team than Ryder's.

So yeah, the Habs are in trouble.
Well, august version of me, Ryder does have one more goal than the Habs leading scorer and Jagr's departure hasn't really affected the Blueshirts. So PJ wasn't that far off. You sort of look like a sarcastic femal hygiene product now, bravo.

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Old
12-22-2008, 12:13 PM
  #97
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I do remember that i thought O'byrne would become a solid 4th dmen, Plec and Kostitsyn Sr wouldbe puting a PPG. But i knew Boston and NY would be huge forces in the league.

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Old
12-22-2008, 12:17 PM
  #98
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Thomas Plekanek for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erika Kostitsyn View Post
Chris Higgins will have a bad season and will be demoted of his top 6 role by February.

You guys heard it first here !!


Bulls eye !!


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Old
12-22-2008, 12:21 PM
  #99
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Yeah so whoever said Pleks was right thus far.



And Ryder's got as many points as most of our players... (Lang and Tanguay, actually) and more goals..


Yeah we rock

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Old
12-22-2008, 01:01 PM
  #100
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.. and I laugh at everyone who expected Higgins to score 35+ goals.

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