HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Turn-about is fair play - Tyutin in Columbus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-23-2008, 12:50 PM
  #26
jas
Unsatisfied
 
jas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 13,002
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
Washington, not Sather.

And what does that matter?

The deal was still Anson Carter for Jagr.

And the following season Jagr put up the single greatest individual season in Rangers history by scoring more goals in a single season and putting up more points in a single season then anyone else in Rangers history.

Not to mention carried the Rangers to the playoffs for the first time in 8 years.

And single handedly brought respectability to the Organization again.


Yes, Anson Carter for Jagr, no matter what circumstance, while only paying half his salary for 3 years, was the best move Sather made during his tenure with the Rangers.
See the above post. Sather got Jagr at a reduced cost for reason. He had yet to repair his image as a pouty, locker room cancer. This in no way diminishes what he did after the lockout. But, Sather tried to deal Jagr also.

jas is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-23-2008, 12:56 PM
  #27
bleedblue94
Registered User
 
bleedblue94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,220
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
When the great purge took place in 2004, Sather offered EVERY vet around. The only three players he couldn't get a deal for were Jagr, Holik and Poti.
well i knew holik bc of the contract, poti bc he is poti, but i thought they planned to keep JJ to build around... hence why we turned into team czech directly after the lockout

bleedblue94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-23-2008, 12:58 PM
  #28
Brian Boyle
portnor, pls
 
Brian Boyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,607
vCash: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
When the great purge took place in 2004, Sather offered EVERY vet around. The only three players he couldn't get a deal for were Jagr, Holik and Poti.
link?

__________________
Rangers Unlimited
Hockey Graphs
Brian Boyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-23-2008, 12:59 PM
  #29
NYR Sting
Heart and Soul
 
NYR Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue94 View Post
well i knew holik bc of the contract, poti bc he is poti, but i thought they planned to keep JJ to build around... hence why we turned into team czech directly after the lockout
Because when Slats failed to find any takers for Jagr, he realized his best bet was to try and baby Jagr into becoming the player he could be, which worked, at least for a while. Sather had nothing to lose with that strategy as no one expected anything from the team.

NYR Sting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-23-2008, 01:14 PM
  #30
Burlington Bomb 26
Louie Louie Oh oh
 
Burlington Bomb 26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Green Mountain State
Country: United States
Posts: 16,615
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
When the great purge took place in 2004, Sather offered EVERY vet around. The only three players he couldn't get a deal for were Jagr, Holik and Poti.
I agreed with everything, except for the dealing of JJ part. that my friend is complete bull ****. Link or gtfo.

Burlington Bomb 26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-23-2008, 05:34 PM
  #31
Radek27
Registered User
 
Radek27's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,143
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Radek27
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
When the great purge took place in 2004, Sather offered EVERY vet around. The only three players he couldn't get a deal for were Jagr, Holik and Poti.
The fact that if the Rangers traded him to another team and that other team would have to pay him his WHOLE salary had nothing to do with this i'm sure right? And the fact that the league was going into another lockout and teams had no idea what the future held......yeah I wonder why Jags wasn't moved then with his 10 mil salary.

I think people forgot what a great discount we had such a great player for. Everyone here knows I'm not a Slats fan, but that trade......

Radek27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-23-2008, 08:08 PM
  #32
BwayBshirt
Registered User
 
BwayBshirt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: My NY State of Mind
Country: United States
Posts: 3,370
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
I'm glad someone else feels this way. I actually thought at the time, Tyutin was the Rangers worst defenseman down the stretch and in the playoffs. It seems like he was making mistake after mistake, and he never bounced back.

Let me put it this way - my father starting watching games with me sometime in late February or early March, not having watched the Rangers in a few years and not being at all familiar with any of these young players, and the by the time the Rangers were eliminated, he was asking me why this guy (Tyutin) was on the Rangers when he was "so bad", and why he played on the 2nd pair, and so on.

Point being, I think most of you are still seeing Tyutin through hipcheck-colored glasses. He really hit a wall this season, and his play wasn't very inspired and again, he was probably the Rangers worst defenseman at the most important time of the year. It was turnover after turnover, and it was extremely frustrating to watch. The hipchecks he threw doesn't suddenly make all that disappear, and they certainly weren't the kind of hipchecks some of you are describing them as. For the most part, it was Tyutin using his hip to check someone into the boards, it wasn't really the open-ice hipcheck where the opposing player flips over and lands hard.

Anyway, the signing of Redden made Tyutin expendable, and I think Sather made a great move by dealing from strength and acquiring Zherdev, which could turn out to be a major coup
. Probably Sather's best single move, on paper, as Rangers GM.
This sums it up for me as well.

tyutin is a good player no doubt and you're going to really like him, but best advice is for the Jackets to pace him throughout the season because the last 2 his play has fallen off down the stretch in crunch time. In 2007 it wasn't so obvious until the Buffalo series in the 2nd round. However last year the flaw showed up way earlier and was way more noticeable IMO.

Bottom line: just pace him well (around 20-22mins. per game), put him with someone who will provide the offense (Klesla), and you will be happy in all likelyhood.

BwayBshirt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2008, 01:36 AM
  #33
NYReign
Registered User
 
NYReign's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York, New York
Country: United States
Posts: 896
vCash: 500
I was never a huge Tyutin fan but for the most part he is a solid defenseman. However, if he gets on a bad stretch he can be truly terrible and take a while to get out of his funk. Personally, I would have dealt him for just about anything after his putrid playoffs and was beyond thrilled to get Zherdev for him. And I wouldn't count on him for offense; he has a heavy shot but our boards are probably dented by all the times he didn't get it on net. I wish Fedor the best and I hope he can make the jump to the first pair, but if nothing else he is a decent 2nd pairing guy so he won't be a total loss.

Which brings me to Backman. He could very well be a total loss. He is very very talented and very very nervous. If he can settle in and play a smart game, he will be a steal but don't bet on it. If he can't settle in, then he will make the most boneheaded turnovers you've ever seen and be in the box at least once a game for an unnecessary hook. His first game with us I believe he had 10 PIM (it might have been eight, I think he hooked someone and the ref missed who did it and penalized Staal) and there was no light at the end of the tunnel from there.

NYReign is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2008, 07:05 AM
  #34
jas
Unsatisfied
 
jas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 13,002
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
The fact that if the Rangers traded him to another team and that other team would have to pay him his WHOLE salary had nothing to do with this i'm sure right? And the fact that the league was going into another lockout and teams had no idea what the future held......yeah I wonder why Jags wasn't moved then with his 10 mil salary.

I think people forgot what a great discount we had such a great player for. Everyone here knows I'm not a Slats fan, but that trade......
Yes, that was part of the problem. The other part was that Jagr had yet to rehabilitate his image as moody, leftover from Pittsburgh and Washington. At the time, the deal didn't not seem to be as great as it turned out. Only when Jagr turned out the season he did in 2005-6, (one the best one season performance from a Ranger player I have ever seen in my 30 years of watching this team), did the deal look like a steal.

As for a link, I can't seem to find one, but I do recall Brooks writing at the time that the Rangers were trying to dump everyone, and had offered Jagr both Colorado and Dallas. Fortunately, it never happened.

jas is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2008, 10:19 AM
  #35
Vitto79
Registered User
 
Vitto79's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sarnia
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,338
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbo23 View Post
Tyutin will dominate wherever, as long as he keeps throwing that hip check.
ur darn Tyutin!..........gonna miss saying that lame line.............I liked Fedor alot but with the Depth on D they needed to pull the trigger for Zherdev

Vitto79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2008, 11:23 AM
  #36
Jaromir Jagr
New York Rangers Cup
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,263
vCash: 500
To be fair, he's either on, or he's not. Sort of like Zherdev.

When he's on, he's on in a way where you don't even notice him. He just keeps making good play after good play (usually early in the season toward mid-season).

When he's off, boy do you notice him. You name it, he does it badly. That "hipcheck" is over-rated. He uses it maybe 10 times a season (or successfully anyway). His physical game is good but again, it's over-rated. Everything refers to the hip-check which TBH is kind of hard to throw - have you tried in hockey?

Regardless, the point is I think you guys really lost this trade. I'm not trying to be an ass. Tyutin has little to no offensive flair and is as inconsistent as can be at times. The money's fine for now, and if he stays around it. Hopefully he stays consistent for you guys because that is key. Same thing for us with Zherdev....

Jaromir Jagr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2008, 03:17 PM
  #37
hpNYR
HF Forecaster
 
hpNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burbank, CA
Country: Armenia
Posts: 7,092
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
When the great purge took place in 2004, Sather offered EVERY vet around. The only three players he couldn't get a deal for were Jagr, Holik and Poti.
He didn't offer up Jagr.

hpNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2008, 08:57 PM
  #38
Jeds2StepOpus
Registered User
 
Jeds2StepOpus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 893
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
See the above post. Sather got Jagr at a reduced cost for reason. He had yet to repair his image as a pouty, locker room cancer. This in no way diminishes what he did after the lockout. But, Sather tried to deal Jagr also.
The Rangers acquired Jagr on January 23rd 2004. They did not try to trade him off during that house cleaning.

He was the center piece they wanted to build around.

Jeds2StepOpus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-25-2008, 08:26 AM
  #39
cbjgirl
Just thinking
 
cbjgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: about last summer.
Country: United States
Posts: 3,230
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Staal View Post
To be fair, he's either on, or he's not. Sort of like Zherdev.

When he's on, he's on in a way where you don't even notice him. He just keeps making good play after good play (usually early in the season toward mid-season).

When he's off, boy do you notice him. You name it, he does it badly. That "hipcheck" is over-rated. He uses it maybe 10 times a season (or successfully anyway). His physical game is good but again, it's over-rated. Everything refers to the hip-check which TBH is kind of hard to throw - have you tried in hockey?

Regardless, the point is I think you guys really lost this trade. I'm not trying to be an ass. Tyutin has little to no offensive flair and is as inconsistent as can be at times. The money's fine for now, and if he stays around it. Hopefully he stays consistent for you guys because that is key. Same thing for us with Zherdev....
I don't think we'll know the answer to this question until Sept 2009. I see Backman as a one and done for the Jackets (unless a miracle occurs) it will give us a year for Plekhanov (sp?) and Russell to grow a bit more. I think a top 4 of Tyutin, Klesla, Hejda, and Commodore can more than hold their own in our defensive scheme. They can also be shuffled a bit. It wouldn't surprise me if the top two lines have about the same amount of ice time, I'd guess about 22 minutes a game.

I did look up the defensive stats for all of our new defensemen + everyone on the team last year. Tyutin led in hits by a fairly wide margin as well as blocked shots if you just look at who will be with the team this season. If you are interested:

For the 07/08 season:

Player ....... GP G A Pts +/- PIM TOI/G Hits Blocked Shots
Hejda ....... 81 0 13 13 20 61 21:07 148 90
Klesla ....... 82 6 12 18 7 60 23:12 107 110
Methot ....... 9 0 0 0 -1 8 14:13 16 2
Rome ........ 17 1 1 2 -4 33 18:10 33 17
Russell ....... 67 2 8 10 -12 14 14:47 31 64
Tollefsen ......51 2 2 4 -3 111 12:18 91 20
Wilson..........7 1 1 2 3 2 16:55 (I forgot to look up hits & BS)

Backman .... 63 3 15 18 -2 50 19:12 34 51
Commodore 67 3 11 14 -7 100 18:12 144 95
Tyutin ....... 82 5 15 20 5 43 20:26 218 112

Foote ........ 75 1 15 16 2 107 23:23 93 148
Hainsey ...... 78 8 24 32 -7 25 22:33 51 91
Tarnstrom... 48 3 11 14 -11 52 19:22 22 71
Westcott .... 23 1 3 4 -10 30 16:25 18 14

Thank you all for offering both sides / opinions here. It is appreciated.

cbjgirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-25-2008, 11:42 AM
  #40
Jaromir Jagr
New York Rangers Cup
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,263
vCash: 500
Cbjgirl, yes...Tyutin appears to have led in hits and blocked shots for that defensive core you posted there. However, in due time, probably next year, Tyutin won't be able to hold Klesla's jockstrap as a defender. Tyutin is just one of those defenseman who never developed the way he should have. I'm surprised he's still here, and not in Russia. The thing is, since joining the league, he's made little progress.

I think Tyutin really started to struggle when he was put up against opposing teams top lines (and/or breaks the 20 minute mark). If you play him at 20 or under a game on the 2nd pair, he should generally work wonders all year...but above that..he really starts to show flaws.


Last edited by Jaromir Jagr: 08-25-2008 at 11:48 AM.
Jaromir Jagr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-25-2008, 11:53 AM
  #41
cbjgirl
Just thinking
 
cbjgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: about last summer.
Country: United States
Posts: 3,230
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Staal View Post
Cbjgirl, yes...Tyutin appears to have led in hits and blocked shots for that defensive core you posted there. However, in due time, probably next year, Tyutin won't be able to hold Klesla's jockstrap as a defender. Tyutin is just one of those defenseman who never developed the way he should have. I'm surprised he's still here, and not in Russia. The thing is, since joining the league, he's made little progress.
If you're talking about his defensive game here... Hitch has done a very good job with most of the roster concerning defensive play. I think Hitch is hoping to work with Backman as well.

Quote:
* Backman will be the PPQB. Likes offensive game and he QBs the PP for Sweden in international competitions well. He does needs to work on his defensive game which they will focus on as coaches.
http://lightthelamp.blogspot.com/ (August 20th - A conversation with Hitch).

Concerning the stats - I don't know how evenly things like hits get recorded. Does the stats guy for the Rangers have a lower threshold for hits than the Jackets' stats guy? Goals are easy to count - some other stats aren't. Are Tyutin's stats elevated relative to last season's Jackets - I have no way of knowing.

cbjgirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-25-2008, 11:54 AM
  #42
cbjgirl
Just thinking
 
cbjgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: about last summer.
Country: United States
Posts: 3,230
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Staal View Post
Cbjgirl, yes...Tyutin appears to have led in hits and blocked shots for that defensive core you posted there. However, in due time, probably next year, Tyutin won't be able to hold Klesla's jockstrap as a defender. Tyutin is just one of those defenseman who never developed the way he should have. I'm surprised he's still here, and not in Russia. The thing is, since joining the league, he's made little progress.

I think Tyutin really started to struggle when he was put up against opposing teams top lines (and/or breaks the 20 minute mark). If you play him at 20 or under a game on the 2nd pair, he should generally work wonders all year...but above that..he really starts to show flaws.
Did Tyutin have much special team ice time? If so, what was it?

cbjgirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-25-2008, 01:42 PM
  #43
Unk
 
Unk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In A Better Place
Country: Liechtenstein
Posts: 698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbjgirl View Post
Did Tyutin have much special team ice time? If so, what was it?
IIRC Tyutin played both penalty kill and some power play. He stood out more to me on the PP (so I guess he was on the PK) but not in a good way. Seemed to have trouble keeping the puck in the offensive zone and his shots were hardly on net. I think he's best kept playing defensive hockey, I don't think he's got the ability to contribute offensively. Hopefully Hitchcock can maximize his strengths.

Unk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-25-2008, 04:23 PM
  #44
Jovavic
Lose to CBJ?
 
Jovavic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ClosedDoorMeeting
Country: Qatar
Posts: 10,709
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Jovavic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Staal View Post
Regardless, the point is I think you guys really lost this trade. .
The Rangers need to take Zherdev's passport away then, he defines the term "flight risk".

Jovavic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-25-2008, 05:50 PM
  #45
vipernsx
Flatus Expeller
 
vipernsx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 6,347
vCash: 566
Toots is a top notch 2nd pairing guy. He doesn't have any flaws to his game, but he also doesn't have elite offensive or hitting to to fit him into top line spot although because his game lacks a weakness, you can play him in any role. I'd even say that if the team was hit with injuries, you could get by with him filling the #1 spot for a limited time. Simply said...he'll do whatever you need him to do and do it well.

vipernsx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2008, 07:29 AM
  #46
D713B
Registered User
 
D713B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,623
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unk View Post
IIRC Tyutin played both penalty kill and some power play. He stood out more to me on the PP (so I guess he was on the PK) but not in a good way. Seemed to have trouble keeping the puck in the offensive zone and his shots were hardly on net. I think he's best kept playing defensive hockey, I don't think he's got the ability to contribute offensively. Hopefully Hitchcock can maximize his strengths.
Tyutin played over 181 minutes on the power play and your right, he wasn't really that effective. He only recorded 6 points. He has good offensive potential and a decent shot but that potential never really materialized. Just to give you some comparison Mara had about 139 minutes on the power play and he produced 6 points as well. If he can ever figure out how to hit the net then he could put up some numbers worthy of mentioning. He's a very solid defender though and plays well short handed as he played nearly 200 minutes on the PK last year.

You can't ask for much more from a 2nd pairing d-man and Tyutin is a very solid one. The only thing that is cause for concern is that it appears he tires down the stretch and in the playoffs. Hopefully as he gets older he will improve upon that. I wish him the best and I'm sad to see him go.

D713B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-27-2008, 06:09 PM
  #47
albynomonk
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 72
vCash: 500
Expect Tyutin to panic when pressured with the puck. He'll try to dump it off to his D partner, whether it's a good idea or not. It's also a good idea to keep him off the point on the PP. His shot accuracy is incredible; out of every 100 shots, 99 will hit the defender square in the shinpads, and nearly half of those will turn into breakaways for the opposition.

albynomonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-27-2008, 06:48 PM
  #48
Unk
 
Unk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In A Better Place
Country: Liechtenstein
Posts: 698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by D713B View Post
Tyutin played over 181 minutes on the power play and your right, he wasn't really that effective. He only recorded 6 points. He has good offensive potential and a decent shot but that potential never really materialized. Just to give you some comparison Mara had about 139 minutes on the power play and he produced 6 points as well. If he can ever figure out how to hit the net then he could put up some numbers worthy of mentioning. He's a very solid defender though and plays well short handed as he played nearly 200 minutes on the PK last year.

You can't ask for much more from a 2nd pairing d-man and Tyutin is a very solid one. The only thing that is cause for concern is that it appears he tires down the stretch and in the playoffs. Hopefully as he gets older he will improve upon that. I wish him the best and I'm sad to see him go.
Oops, what I said came out wrong. I meant to say is he doesn't stand out on the PK, which is a good thing.

Unk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:50 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.