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Sports illustrated predict top free agent busts.

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Old
08-25-2008, 03:22 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTD5504 View Post
because if you're being paid as much as Naslund is, 20-25 goals is not enough production.
Agreed. Gionta gets $4 mill, he scored 22 goals - 53 points last year and we all said that was disappointing. At least he is young/still playing for a new contract this year.

I think Naslund will quietly do well. He'll get you 60 points, at least you can bank on that. Overpayment? Yea maybe. But maybe thats just how the league is going now.

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08-25-2008, 03:23 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyH2O View Post
I find that hard to believe. Outside of Philly, NJ, the Isles... who *hates* the Rangers with a passion?

Detroit... Pittsburgh, the Leafs, Canadians, Flames, Philedelphia (who really likes anything from Philly? seriously) Canucks... I feel like those teams are hated by more teams
Because they are a team in a large metro area, second most valued team in the NHL (dollars wise). They have a huge and vocal fanbase

Let me put it this way, it's hard to find a fan who likes the Rangers who is not inherently a Ranger fan.

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08-25-2008, 03:25 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyH2O View Post
I find that hard to believe. Outside of Philly, NJ, the Isles... who *hates* the Rangers with a passion?

Detroit... Pittsburgh, the Leafs, Canadians, Flames, Philedelphia (who really likes anything from Philly? seriously) Canucks, even Colorado and/or Dallas... I feel like those teams are hated by more teams... either due to recent success, past history, or playing in Canada.
Btw, Philly and the Leafs I'll give you, but after that I'd say it's the Rangers.

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08-25-2008, 03:26 PM
  #29
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Naslund, whose career has been in decline since the end of the lockout, posted just 55 points last season, his lowest total in a decade. His shot, long the bread and butter of his game, has lost its zip, and he's no longer capable of creating his own space. Brandon Dubinsky might help, but he's no Todd Bertuzzi, Naslund's running mate in his prime. Even over a short term, you need to be able to make things happen on your own to justify that kind of cash.
saying Dubinsky is no Bertuzzi implies that we`re expecting the 104 point Naslund to return. no Dubinsky isn`t `03 Bertuzzi, but he`s certainly not Jason Jaffray, Mason Raymond, Byron Ritchie, Ryan Shannon or Alex Burrows either.

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Old
08-25-2008, 03:27 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danno2530 View Post
I can see how Redden could be a bust, unfortunately. I hope not and I'm really pulling for the guy..but Naslund? I think most people know he's closer to the end of his career than the beginning, and aren't expecting him to score the 35+ goals he did with Vancouver. How can he score 20-25 goals and be considered a bust?
imo naslund has NEVER been a bust , period. i dont know what place this guy is talking from , probably from where the sun don't shine.

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08-25-2008, 03:29 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Then you must have some pretty skewed expectations for Naslund.
agreed, i dont expect anything more from Naslund than what he did last year in a stifiling vancouver system. If he can duplicate those numbers, im happy.

hes not being paid like a franchise player, hes got a very moveable contract.

Same thing with Redden, if youre expecting him to lead the league in points by a defenseman, youre sorely misunderstanding his game. What you should expect is 40-45 points MAX, and solid defense, with an excellent first pass. His overall game is really something i love to watch. He doesnt do anything at a truly elite level, except for maybe his first pass, but he does everything at a high level, and really has no holes in his game. Its all about expectations.

Redden is overpaid, there is no doubt about that, but he allows the defense to slot down perfectly, and will be the perfect partner for a guy like Staal.

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08-25-2008, 03:29 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by BTD5504 View Post
avery is waaaay more valuable than naslund...look at the rangers record the last two seasons with avery in the lineup vs. him being out.

he's also much younger than naslund.

i think naslund will have a descent year, but not good enough to warrant $4.5mil/year
for some reason when people are trying to prove player is overpaid, his salary keeps escalating. according to Devils fans, Gomez will be making $13M by November.

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08-25-2008, 03:37 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by BTD5504 View Post
avery is waaaay more valuable than naslund...look at the rangers record the last two seasons with avery in the lineup vs. him being out.
Kind of like Malik but for some reason that logic never extended to him.

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08-25-2008, 03:37 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
i have no idea what was just said, all i can do is stare at Ari's avatar.
Mmmm who is that may I ask?

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08-25-2008, 03:38 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by PromNite View Post
Btw, Philly and the Leafs I'll give you, but after that I'd say it's the Rangers.
agree to disagree I suppose. I still feel more people hate Pittsburgh (from the Lemieux-Jagr dominating years to the current Crosby Era)... Detroit from the sheer dominance... as well as the Canadians.

I have an even harder time believing your point of view when you accept Philly... but not Detroit? Do you know how many fans despise the red wings? If only cause they constantly win. And Montreal for that matter. Everyone other Canadian fan base despises them!

I mean... maybe you're just confusing this with people who hate "new york" as a whole? I can understand how people hate the yankees and giants... because those teams are in different situations within their respective sports.

The Rangers are hated by the locals. I don't think fans are jealous of the Rangers "value". Most fans could care less about that. They have a large vocal fanbase... but so does every single team that I mentioned in my previous post.

And of course its hard to find someone who likes the rangers who isn't a fan. Maybe there is something I'm missing to that statement, but it seems like a captain obvious one. You mean like casual fans? Iknow plenty of casual Ranger fans that only watch come playoff time. Not sure what you meant


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Old
08-25-2008, 03:38 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyH2O View Post
Agreed. Gionta gets $4 mill, he scored 22 goals - 53 points last year and we all said that was disappointing. At least he is young/still playing for a new contract this year.

I think Naslund will quietly do well. He'll get you 60 points, at least you can bank on that. Overpayment? Yea maybe. But maybe thats just how the league is going now.
Good point. Yeah he's overpaid. There are tons of players who are overpaid. You could say the majority of the league is. But I'm not expecting Naslund to make the all-star team and score 40 goals..you have to be realistic. A nice, solid 25G, 40A season would be fine with me. There are other players on this team who are more than capable of scoring as well.

Plus it's only a 2-year deal. I don't really have many doubts about this contract. Redden? Absolutely, although I also have a feeling he just needed a change of scenery. But with a deal that rich and for that many years, it's natural to be a little cautious.

In the end, there were MANY more questionable moves made in free agency than the one that pays Naslund 8M over 2 years.

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08-25-2008, 03:39 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTD5504 View Post
because if you're being paid as much as Naslund is, 20-25 goals is not enough production.
Isn't that about what Sean Avery is making?

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Old
08-25-2008, 03:46 PM
  #38
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I'd be interested to see if this guy published a similar article this time last year. Anyone have it handy so that they can post the list? Something tells me he didn't get all of his picks correct.

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Old
08-25-2008, 03:48 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTD5504 View Post
avery is waaaay more valuable than naslund...look at the rangers record the last two seasons with avery in the lineup vs. him being out.

he's also much younger than naslund.

i think naslund will have a descent year, but not good enough to warrant $4.5mil/year
You don't even know what your talking about. First off, Naslund's getting $4.0M a year, which can hardly be considered overpayment if he's in the 60 point range and providing good leadership.

Avery is a completely different story. Not only is the guy a detriment in all aspects, each team he's been on since before the NHL has not succeeded. Why? Well you figure that one out yourself. I guess it also depends on what your definition of 'succeed' is. No team will go anywhere with Sean Avery as a vital part of their team. If he is on a stacked team where he's just another support player who plays a physical game, then maybe..but with Dallas expecting Avery to step up big, and be near 60 points? Sorry, ain't gonna happen. Bet he doesn't score 45. Bet he doesn't score 40. Bet he causes more trouble than he does anything else, and will probably end up getting someone to sue the Stars for something he does.

Enjoy him, Dallas. Enjoy him.

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Old
08-25-2008, 03:48 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
agreed, i dont expect anything more from Naslund than what he did last year in a stifiling vancouver system. If he can duplicate those numbers, im happy.

hes not being paid like a franchise player, hes got a very moveable contract.

Same thing with Redden, if youre expecting him to lead the league in points by a defenseman, youre sorely misunderstanding his game. What you should expect is 40-45 points MAX, and solid defense, with an excellent first pass. His overall game is really something i love to watch. He doesnt do anything at a truly elite level, except for maybe his first pass, but he does everything at a high level, and really has no holes in his game. Its all about expectations.

Redden is overpaid, there is no doubt about that, but he allows the defense to slot down perfectly, and will be the perfect partner for a guy like Staal.
No. Movement. Clause.

That is the main reason the Naslund contract is so bad....

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08-25-2008, 03:51 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
No. Movement. Clause.

That is the main reason the Naslund contract is so bad....
****, he got a NMC? youre sure?

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Old
08-25-2008, 03:59 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
You realize Dubinsky did nothing without Jagr right?

You realize Naslund has a NMC which makes that contract terrible......


Its in my opinion Naslund will do fine here. NMC or not. And no i did not know that, thanks for pointing it out.

How many games did Dubinsky "do nothing" without Jagr? I dont think thats a big enough sampling to warrant that comment.

But thats fine if you think its a bad signing. Everyones entitled to their opinion. I also think its fine you might think hell bust. But I think Naslund will do well.

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08-25-2008, 04:01 PM
  #43
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in the 12 games before being paired with Jagr, i believe Dubinsky had 5 goals and 5 assists. Im going off of memory from one of the posts i made earlier this year, but im about 95% sure that is a correct number. Dubinsky started to "get it" before being put with jagr. putting them together was more about getting jagr going, than getting dubinsky going.

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08-25-2008, 04:04 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
So Naslund is more likely to be a bust than Avery @ almost the same money and for twice as long?
Without question he is.

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08-25-2008, 04:09 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyH2O View Post
agree to disagree I suppose. I still feel more people hate Pittsburgh (from the Lemieux-Jagr dominating years to the current Crosby Era)... Detroit from the sheer dominance... as well as the Canadians.
I think people hate Crosby more than they hate the Pens... hell I don't like that big-lipped *******, but I don't hate the Pens.

As far as Detroit, if you hate them it is pure jealousy. The Pens tanked and landed high draft picks for years and only now are a great team. The Wings draft low every year and still manage to find gold among dirt. Their European scouts should be making more than Crosby himself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billyH2O View Post
I have an even harder time believing your point of view when you accept Philly... but not Detroit? Do you know how many fans despise the red wings? If only cause they constantly win. And Montreal for that matter. Everyone other Canadian fan base despises them!
Answered in the previous block. Oh, and yeah, Canadiens fans can get obnoxious, but they are the Ranger fans of Canada but with a winning pedigree. There are just so many of them that the idiots drown out the level headed ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billyH2O View Post
I mean... maybe you're just confusing this with people who hate "new york" as a whole? I can understand how people hate the yankees and giants... because those teams are in different situations within their respective sports.
True, but they (the Giants, Jets, Yanks etc.) get 1000 times the attention the Rangers get. If you think the Rangers aren't a top 5 hated team on this board... I just don't know what to tell you. Look at some more team boards maybe? The stigma of signing old fogeys and missing the playoffs will be around until the Rangers win several Cups in a row. Guaranteed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billyH2O View Post
The Rangers are hated by the locals. I don't think fans are jealous of the Rangers "value". Most fans could care less about that. They have a large vocal fanbase... but so does every single team that I mentioned in my previous post.
I agree, and you're right... the teams you mention are supported well locally... but the Rangers are supported well nationally. I became a fan because my Dad was a fan and recommended I play as them in NHL '93 on Sega. NYC has, what, 19 million people in the metro area? When they move away, they spread fandom. I'm not trying to take down your argument Billy, I'm just saying that you are underestimating the amount of idiotic, loud, uneducated Ranger fans that you should be well accustomed to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billyH2O View Post
And of course its hard to find someone who likes the rangers who isn't a fan. Maybe there is something I'm missing to that statement, but it seems like a captain obvious one. You mean like casual fans? Iknow plenty of casual Ranger fans that only watch come playoff time. Not sure what you meant
For this I don't have much of an answer, I don't live anywhere near NY. But how many people on these boards are secretly rooting for the Blackhawks, the Blue Jackets, etc. just because they want to see them do well? Try to find a single non-NYR fan who wants to see them succeed, minus Zherdev and Naslund fans. There are virtually none.

Pardon any spelling or grammar mistakes, it's my day off and I'm mildly hammered... just enjoying some back-and-forth with a rival fan.


Last edited by PromNite: 08-25-2008 at 04:16 PM.
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Old
08-25-2008, 04:41 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Its in my opinion Naslund will do fine here. NMC or not. And no i did not know that, thanks for pointing it out.

How many games did Dubinsky "do nothing" without Jagr? I dont think thats a big enough sampling to warrant that comment.

But thats fine if you think its a bad signing. Everyones entitled to their opinion. I also think its fine you might think hell bust. But I think Naslund will do well.


Are you going to sit here and actually try to say that Dubinsky didn't benefit from playing with Jagr?

What kind or production do you see from Dubinsky this coming season?

I'm glad i got your permission to have an opinion on Naslund..


Last edited by Son of Steinbrenner: 08-25-2008 at 04:48 PM. Reason: forgot the smiley
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Old
08-25-2008, 04:41 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
****, he got a NMC? youre sure?
10,000,000% positive...

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08-25-2008, 05:05 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Are you going to sit here and actually try to say that Dubinsky didn't benefit from playing with Jagr?
I'll do you one better. I read earlier today (on another board) someone who actually said Dubinsky's development was hampered by Jagr's mentorship. It's crazy the ends people will go to to ***** on certain players while refusing to see anything negative about others.

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08-25-2008, 05:44 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Ovens View Post
So Alan Muir over at Sports Illustrated calls Naslund and Redden the two potential biggest free agent busts of the year , so is this guy a hack, or is he very perceptive?

"2. Markus Naslund (two years, $8 million) and 1. Wade Redden (six years, $39 million)

No, you haven't stepped into the Wayback Machine. Rangers GM Glen Sather is at it again, signing name players who appear to be well past their best-by dates to contracts that are as generous as a no-bid Iraq contract.

Neither veteran is completely washed up, but at this point they downward slope looks pretty slippery. And it's worth noting that neither player generated much in the way of mourning upon leaving his previous employer".

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...x.html?eref=T1
Excellent news.....the last time SI had negative predictions, of this magnitude, towards the Rangers they made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs, Jagr broke the record for single season goals, they had a surpise rookie score 30 goals and had another rookie step up to be the franchise goaltender that was missing for years.

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Old
08-25-2008, 05:50 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTD5504 View Post
avery is waaaay more valuable than naslund...look at the rangers record the last two seasons with avery in the lineup vs. him being out.

he's also much younger than naslund.

i think naslund will have a descent year, but not good enough to warrant $4.5mil/year
Look at the Rangers record with Malik in, they have almost relativly equal numbers but yet no one cares about that, they only look at Averys record playing

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