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THN Predicts the Rangers will underachieve

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Old
08-16-2008, 06:43 AM
  #51
eco's bones
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Hopefully they can construct a line that will compete against top lines effectively. I can't remember, but it wasn't always Gomez in Jersey going against top lines. Zherdev didn't do it on a regular basis. Neither did Drury. Naslund did, but his best years seemed to be with Bert and Bert created space for him. Hopefully a skilled, speedy line can be made to go against those top pairings, and I also hope their 'game' doesn't get too predicatble since good coaches will know how to adjust to speed games.
I think we're pretty much in agreement on this Fletch. Those d-men I mentioned--White, Witt, Phillips, Komisarek, Chara etc. are not going to go away or start being ineffective just because Jagr isn't around. I would think it actually is going to make things a lot easier for them. I would think our skilled guys are going to get hammered a lot more often this time around and I wonder just how effective guys like Dawes, Drury, Callahan, Prucha, Naslund are going to be getting to the net and then staying there.

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08-16-2008, 07:12 AM
  #52
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We are, eco's - I was just further supporting what you're saying. While I may not think this team is doomed, I still believe that people underestimate the importance of Jagr in those years and how he enabled others to be successful by taking those quaity minutes and by being the center of other teams' attention. A shift away from him will be an adjustment some Rangers players have to deal with and I doubt any single Ranger scares other teams. As mentioned, hopefully they can create a four lines that are deeper than last season's and relies a lot less on a top line..

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08-16-2008, 08:37 AM
  #53
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I am more optimistic. If the chemistry is there, I see the Rangers winning the division and challenging for top spot in the East. Here's why:

Pittsburgh - lost a lot of their depth players (mostly to Tampa Bay) but gained Satan and Fedotenko who may or may not click with Crosby and Malkin

Philadelphia - didn't really get better or worse

Montreal - Good team but also very streaky (and we know their fans need glasses when watching their games in Montreal!)

Don't forget that we got Naslund who has been a Top 10 player in the NHL for the past decade and is good defensively, Redden who honestly cannot be any worse then his last 2 years in Ottawa, and Lundqvist who should only get better and who I think will win the Vezina this year. I think we do need one more player before training camp to fill out our Top 6, either through trade or FA. We never should have signed Roszival for 5 Mil per as he is obviously a 2-3 Mil per D man. This really handcuffed us in case we actually did want to go in on Sundin. Would you rather have Rozy or Sundin? Shanny might be the answer if he reverts back to his form from 2 years ago. Chemistry is the key, with no chemistry this Ranger team will not make the playoffs so either we will be really good or horribly bad, just my 2 cents.

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08-16-2008, 11:02 AM
  #54
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rvd...

so I assume that if PITT doesn't have chemistry issues with the two players you mention, they'd still do better than the Rangers? Personally, I think PITT wil have zero chemistry issues if they stay healthy. When you have both Crosby and Malkin, you don't worry too much. Their only issue, I believe, is can Fleury put together a 65-70 game season playing at a level at which he played during the playoffs.

Philly didn't get better - although their kids got a year older and they're very well coached - at worst, I think they do as well as last season. And who knows, maybe Gane plays 80 games and that's the equivalent of high-end UFA signing.

It's been a few years since Naslund was top 10. We'll see if it was the environment or not (or if he needed a guy like Bert to give him space). He's OK defensively.

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08-16-2008, 02:38 PM
  #55
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i think philly and pitt are both better teams on paper than the rangers, however if the rangers can find chemistry and get contributions from all of their lines offensively and defenseively i think they will make the playoffs.....i say 7th seed is a reasonable expectation

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08-17-2008, 02:36 AM
  #56
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This phrase alone proves that the writer has no idea what he's talking about.

Quote:
under-appreciated defender Fedor Tyutin
Wow...

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Old
08-17-2008, 11:37 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnaby View Post
A change was needed... to some extent...

I do think they will under-achieve...

Jagr, Avery, Straka, Shanny, Tyutin, Backman.. OUT

Zherdev, Naslund, Voros, Redden, Kalinin... IN

The defense will be marginally better... The offense will not be... to me the Rangers could easily be a 7-8 seed that gets bounced out in the first round...

The Rangers are clearly one very legit top-6 winger away from being a team with a chance to make a run. They just don't have the scoring to keep up with Pitt MTL.. etc..
Maybe.

The difference -- and where the Rangers will have to make up for it, for the next decade -- is that they have the best goaltender in the conference. He's eating up a sizeable portion of their cap space, which is probably why they don't have the top-end foward.

They'll have to win on defense, because you're right, they'll never, ever outscore Pittsburgh.

That said, it makes sense for them to invest in a guy like Redden, and to groom Staal and possibly Sanguinetti into top line defensemen.

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08-17-2008, 03:53 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by mschmidt64 View Post
That said, it makes sense for them to invest in a guy like Redden, and to groom Staal and possibly Sanguinetti into top line defensemen.
that's my biggest hope for the redden signing: that he'll mentor staal into the kind of player whose first pass can totally obliterate the other teams work in the offensive zone

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08-17-2008, 04:10 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
that's my biggest hope for the redden signing: that he'll mentor staal into the kind of player whose first pass can totally obliterate the other teams work in the offensive zone
And the team's other possible defensemen for the future, like Girardi, Sauer, Sanguinetti, Del Zotto... or whoever makes it. That's why I don't quite hate these signings too terribly. Having talented guys (like Redden) who can show the youngins how to the play better might be limiting the team's options now w/ the salary cap, but years from now it could really pay dividends when the team's defensemen can make a nice first pass.

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08-18-2008, 07:17 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by mschmidt64 View Post
Maybe.

The difference -- and where the Rangers will have to make up for it, for the next decade -- is that they have the best goaltender in the conference. He's eating up a sizeable portion of their cap space, which is probably why they don't have the top-end foward.

They'll have to win on defense, because you're right, they'll never, ever outscore Pittsburgh.

That said, it makes sense for them to invest in a guy like Redden, and to groom Staal and possibly Sanguinetti into top line defensemen.
Lundqvist is our best player and should be getting a big contract. The question for me is not what he's making but whether we're going to get equal or better value from two players making more than he is--Gomez, Drury and one making almost as much--Redden. We have inflated salaries--IMO Henrik is not one of them. To go further Roszival will be making too much as well. If I were looking at players eating up salary--Gomez, Drury, Redden and Roszival is where I'd start.

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08-18-2008, 08:42 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
While I may not think this team is doomed, I still believe that people underestimate the importance of Jagr in those years and how he enabled others to be successful by taking those quaity minutes and by being the center of other teams' attention.
I'd argue that no one else really was "successful", because with a very few exceptions, the team's fortunes always lived and died with Jagr's ability to generate most of the offense. It was strategy that every coach in the league was wise to, and last year, had very little trouble countering. It's difficult for me to believe that it would more successful this year than last without making improvements to the team that can't happen if you're paying Jagr too.

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08-18-2008, 11:49 AM
  #62
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I was going to make a new thread, but I decided to say it here.

I WANT NEW YORK RANGERS HOCKEY!!! I need hockey season to start, I'm craving it. Whoever said that the offseason needs to be longer is a dummy.

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08-18-2008, 02:28 PM
  #63
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Wow, what a surprise.

Of course if the Rangers played in somewhere like Winnipeg, they'd be praised for the moves they made. Or if they were named the Maple Leafs. But since they're the New York Rangers, they will underachieve. Thanks, TSN.


I have my questions about this year's team too. Will there be enough scoring? Will we be physical enough? I have a strong feeling this team will limp out of the gate, dealing with the jet lag consequences from the trip to Prague and the fact that all these new faces need time to get to know each other and gel, but I also think that once these things happen, the team will rebound and finish strong. It's going to be a slow process, but we weren't winning the cup with the team we had, so I can wait.

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08-18-2008, 02:36 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by PruBlue25 View Post
I was going to make a new thread, but I decided to say it here.

I WANT NEW YORK RANGERS HOCKEY!!! I need hockey season to start, I'm craving it. Whoever said that the offseason needs to be longer is a dummy.
46 days.

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08-18-2008, 02:54 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
Not sure what is so hard to grasp about what they are doing.

This is a transition year.

Next year's roster is going to be far more talented then this upcoming season's roster, and more talented then last year's.

It really boggles my mind how these so called experts just don't get it.

Sanguinetti, Cherepanov, Anisimov that right there is only PART of what will be added to the team in 2009-2010.
Exactly it was either this year or next year.....this change was upon us...but i could see people saying we should have at least kept jagr one more season for a smoother transition...but it is very diffucult to tell how this team is going to do only time will tell but either way you cant predict this team at all....i think they will be a streaky team....winiing 5 straight then losing 5 straight....we will see

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08-18-2008, 03:41 PM
  #66
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MJ...

the team's fortunes lived and died with Jagr because nobody else was stepping up and scoring 123 points, or 96 points. Further, nobody else would be keyed on by other teams as much as Jagr. I had lamented about the over-dependence on Jagr over the last few seasons and had always stated how much I thought Renney didn't do a good job developing a team that didn't depend on Jagr. Last season he did a better job, but still, there was Jagr, without whom I think Gomez may've struggled as a top guy playing with wingers who really weren't great top wingers either.

But of course my point isn't sign Jagr for $8mm and build a team around that. I did think that it was a shame that we had a guy score 96 points in a season who made less than $5MM per season and really didn't take full advantage of it. I like a more well-rounded team. This is a more diverse. No doubt about that. But, it was nice to say that our second line centerman was Gomez, and with Jagr on a different line, presumably he'd get a good winger if there was a good winger. Further, it was nice saying Drury's the third line centerman. When talking about depth - that's depth. The bottom two lines this season should be better scoring lines. Hopefully things come together for the top two lines.

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08-18-2008, 03:49 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I'd argue that no one else really was "successful", because with a very few exceptions, the team's fortunes always lived and died with Jagr's ability to generate most of the offense. It was strategy that every coach in the league was wise to, and last year, had very little trouble countering. It's difficult for me to believe that it would more successful this year than last without making improvements to the team that can't happen if you're paying Jagr too.
Jagr was not on the ice 60 minutes a game. The problem was that for the 40 or so minutes he wasn't on the ice you could be pretty secure thinking that the Rangers were likely to be held off the scoresheet.

The best player on every team draws the most attention. It will be no different this year. Jagr ate up quality minutes the way a good starting pitcher eats up innings. This doesn't mean they will fall apart without him but it's difficult to envision them being better offensively. Then again, as we all know from experience, trying to predict an NHL team's fortunes before the year is no better than a 50-50 proposition.

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08-18-2008, 04:12 PM
  #68
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Since this is THN, the Rangers will prolly overachieve..

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08-25-2008, 10:26 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Ranger35 View Post
Awesome, last season the Rangers were predicted to be contenders and didn't go anywhere. When the Rangers were projected to finish last, they got in the playoffs.
Going by the last decade, i predict the Rangers do not make it past the 2nd round of the playoffs.

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08-25-2008, 10:48 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Hopefully they can construct a line that will compete against top lines effectively. I can't remember, but it wasn't always Gomez in Jersey going against top lines. Zherdev didn't do it on a regular basis. Neither did Drury. Naslund did, but his best years seemed to be with Bert and Bert created space for him. Hopefully a skilled, speedy line can be made to go against those top pairings, and I also hope their 'game' doesn't get too predicatble since good coaches will know how to adjust to speed games.
John Madden and Jay Pandolofo. If we tried to match skill for skill, then usually it was Elias' line... which did have Gomez a lot of the time. But basically our shutdown line went head to head with the other team's top guys

EDIT: Re-read it. I guess you meant going against their top D lines. In which case you're right, gomez elias and Gionta got the bulk of our opposition's attention. Parise was under the radar that year, and got secondary attention. But our line combos flopped a lot.


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08-26-2008, 12:18 PM
  #71
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Look at this little gem i found

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=162568


Hmm, HF wrong, Never!

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08-26-2008, 02:34 PM
  #72
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that's my biggest hope for the redden signing: that he'll mentor staal into the kind of player whose first pass can totally obliterate the other teams work in the offensive zone


Mentor what? Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Staal is better than Redden right now....that's just what I see though.

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08-26-2008, 03:59 PM
  #73
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Mentor what? Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Staal is better than Redden right now....that's just what I see though.
i think your right. if i had to rank our defensman it goes Staal and Rozsival are a wash for 1st then Redden, Girardi, Mara, Kalinin. If Redden turns it around, then Great but i seriously doubt it and it will make the contract even worse IMO.

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08-26-2008, 04:18 PM
  #74
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This reminds me when we were picked dead last in 05-06 and than had a 100pt season with jagr destroying and shattering any sense what was once called "defense" on a team , good times.

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08-26-2008, 04:36 PM
  #75
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ok, ill chime in.

we are not, i repeat, NOT a better team without jagr. period. and yes, atleast now before the puck has been dropped, this team looks to be ripe for a letdown and thus underachieve. just removing jagr from this roster makes it that way.

jagr was the one guy all teams feared. at any moment, albeit far less often in the regular season, he could go crazy and score at will. his playoffs last year showed what he could do. he was in a word, dominant, and occasionally unstoppable. at the same time, he looked awful for much of the reg season.

in my mind, this team has a weaker top 6, atleast on paper. but going into camp we seem much faster and even younger, so who knows. straka and jj and shanny and avery is alot to lose in one season. adding zherdev and naslund and additional 3rd/4th line types makes us deeper in the bottom 6 but still, whos gonna score the goals?

defensively i think were better. say what you will about redden and his last 2 years in ott, but the guy is smart and makes us better right off with his passing and pp skills. hes better than anything we had last season. malik, toots and backman are gone. i like our d as of now and if rozy plays 1st pair, hell finally have a real partner for once. if he plays 2nd pair, he playing where he probably should play and that will make him better not always going against the oppositions best line.

we have the best goaltender in the east. he alone makes us competitive. add to that this better defense and perhaps a more balanced 4 line team and im confident we will make the playoffs.

i would go even further to say, if we can add someone who can score 30 goals from the wing and play top 6 minutes, we could be a dangerous team come spring.

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