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Old
08-23-2008, 09:27 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by socraticirony View Post
Yup, which is why it was hilarious to hear the blowhard announcing the game on Eagles TV say, "And the Patriots are just getting embarrassed on their home field." Um, guy, it's the PRESEASON, and, in case you didn't notice, the Patriots couldn't make it more obvious that they're hardly trying. The guy was so pumped that he probably busted a nut all over the studio during halftime.
I'm already predicting that moron fans will be calling in the sports radio shows all season defending the Eagles by stating that they beat the Patriots in the preseason. It's so obvious that the Pats hardly care about the preseason most years.

I hate the Eagles. I really hope the Flyers win the next championship.

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08-23-2008, 10:04 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
I hate the Eagles. I really hope the Flyers win the next championship.
+9

I hate how a preseason Eagles story gets more press than a Phillies or Flyers regular season story.

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08-24-2008, 12:42 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
I'm already predicting that moron fans will be calling in the sports radio shows all season defending the Eagles by stating that they beat the Patriots in the preseason. It's so obvious that the Pats hardly care about the preseason most years.

I hate the Eagles. I really hope the Flyers win the next championship.
I find myself disliking a majority of my fellow Eagles fans. I've interacted with enough fans and listened to enough 610 WIP to know there are just way too many morons, no other way to put it. They're simple-minded, unrealistic, overly critical, tiresome, and suffer from a massive inferiority complex that only gets worse with each passing season.

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Originally Posted by Downie Did It View Post
I hate how a preseason Eagles story gets more press than a Phillies or Flyers regular season story.
Then I'd suggest not reading the sports section of the paper or watching CSN. Eagles football is -- and always will be -- king in this city. Just the way it is.

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08-24-2008, 01:45 AM
  #104
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For me it will ALWAYS be Flyers first. I do love the Eagles, but Flyers are where my heart lies.

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08-24-2008, 10:05 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by socraticirony View Post
Then I'd suggest not reading the sports section of the paper or watching CSN. Eagles football is -- and always will be -- king in this city. Just the way it is.
I wonder how many years of sucking it would take to change that.

Also, at this point I would take a championship from any of the 4 teams.

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08-24-2008, 01:11 PM
  #106
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I wonder how many years of sucking it would take to change that.
A lifetime.

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08-24-2008, 08:21 PM
  #107
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Dawkins will be ready for the season opener.

Also, the Giants DE Osi Uneimora (totally bad spelling) will miss the season.. HAHA

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08-24-2008, 11:12 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
A lifetime.
It would literally take an entire generation of sucking. I'd say 25 years of sub-.500 play.

However, football is still king in high schools around this country and the delaware valley is no exception. People will still love the birds for sucking like how some of us love the Phillies and they have lost more games all-time THEN ANY OTHER PROFESSIONAL SPORTS TEAM EVER.

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08-25-2008, 02:55 AM
  #109
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I hate how every TV sports analyst knows little to nothing about the game of hockey. Now I'm not talking about ex players of the flyers. I just wish we had some local TV sports analyst who knew a thing or two about hockey. That's my rant for tonight.

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08-25-2008, 02:57 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by ForsbergIsOdin View Post
For me it will ALWAYS be Flyers first. I do love the Eagles, but Flyers are where my heart lies.
couldn't of said it better man.

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08-25-2008, 03:18 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by ForsbergIsOdin View Post
Dawkins will be ready for the season opener.

Also, the Giants DE Osi Uneimora (totally bad spelling) will miss the season.. HAHA
Bad karma. Don't do that.

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08-25-2008, 07:54 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by socraticirony View Post
Bad karma. Don't do that.
remember he had like 10 sacks against us? that was karma ****ing him in the ass

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08-25-2008, 10:29 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by ForsbergIsOdin View Post
remember he had like 10 sacks against us? that was karma ****ing him in the ass
It was Downie.

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08-25-2008, 07:05 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by socraticirony View Post
Bad karma. Don't do that.
now there are reports that
a- strahan might be coming back
and
b- osi could have miniscus removed insrtead of repaired at be back at midseason- still unlikelty to happen

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08-26-2008, 09:53 AM
  #115
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Been gone for a while guys, had a bad case of vertigo the past week and 1/2 thanks to a few bad hits to the head in kickboxing....Gonna take me a while to catch up with posts here, but I want to respond to everything I can.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Just to bring the statistics on McNabb into light...after removing Peyton and Brady, here is a look at QBs performance over the last two seasons.

80 as the average QB rating, here are a look at the next 10 QBs and their starts:



Median Passer Rating:



Article (ESPN Insider): http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/playo..._kc&id=3198982

What's interesting about this is that Romo fairs so well, and he's also a QB that receives his fair share of criticism. Additionally, McNabb is the 2nd least likely to lay an egg start (consistency is very important in the QB position), and his median QB rating is only behind Romo (elite receiver) and Palmer (has one of the best corps in the league).

Is McNabb perfect? No. However, a replacement for McNabb is almost certain to be less effective. I will note that I'm not a huge believer in McNabb at this point purely because of his injury troubles...and unless he's gotten his step back, he's not nearly the dangerous QB he once was.
Ok, so according to these statistics Romo is the best QB in the league, right??? How many QBs would you take over Romo? I can think of at least 4-5 right away and probably more if I think about it and I actually like the guy.

You can take this two ways,

1) Stats are meaningless on both sides, your position or mine. I will even ignore stats and still argue why I dont think McNabb is a great quarterback and simply a good, sometimes very good, but wildy inconsistent QB. Ignoring stats lets look at his mental state and everything that he has complained about in the media, how he has handled situations that called for a leader to step up, how he handled the TO situations which he himself saying he wish he handled differently....Regardless of physical ability, the guy does not have the consistency, swagger, leadership ability and mental state to be a championship QB as the leader and focal point of the team. Now if you want to argue that he can win a championship if the eagles come up with a dominant running game and make that the focal point, I wont argue. Trent Dilfer did it as well...anyone want him as their QB?

Look at Elway, never put up the best numbers as far as accuracy, rating, etc. However, he had the intangibles needed to WIN. How many comebacks did the guy have?? Now I dont like him as much as some others, I think he was merely a supporting cast player by the time he won those SBs, but the intangibles is what McNabb is clearly missing.

2) Great stats doesnt necessarily mean a great QB

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
The whole thing with McNabb started with the draft and has been ridiculous ever since. I'm not always right, but I'm happy to say that I was definitely against drafting Ricky Williams even though I was 11 at the time, but some of those morons had to boo Donovan, really started everything off on the wrong foot.
Sorry Flyhigh, love ya and all but this is complete ********....the whole thing at the draft was Angelo Cataldi and WIP starting trouble and sending people up there that wanted Ricky Williams and they booed when it wasnt him picked. It was like 30 people out of how many Eagles fans???? Not representative of the fanbase at all, and it wasnt like they were booing McNabb, they were booing the pick not being Williams.....hence another reason I am not a big fan of the guy, he still crys about this 8 years later. GET OVER IT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I think it's likely he's reached the point in his career where if Kolb is ready they should give serious thought to him, simply because football players definitely turn the corner with accumulated injuries and susceptibility. However, as a 'Skins fan living in Philly, it's been depressing to watch the antagonism towards McNabb and knowing that the same stuff is going on with the teams I do follow (Flyers/Phils).

If one wants to see a horror show at the QB position...look no further than what has been going on in DC. Hell, even when they have a competent and effective QB (Brad Johnson, for example) they do things like can him for a shiny new toy (Jeff George -- I protested that season and rooted for the Eagles I was so disgusted).
As much as I am not a big fan of McNabb, I agree he deserves this year. Those types of knee injuries usually take a year to recover from. However, if Kolb is ready next year I go with him. How many chances does one get??

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Jaws was a great QB, but I'd take McNabb over him every day of the week. First of all, McNabb's career rating is 15 points higher. Secondly, McNabb is the 2nd least intercepted QB per pass attempt in NFL history which has to count for something, and finally, Jaws was a .500 QB during his time here while McNabb is 80-44 so far.
Do we want to debate some of the teams Jaws played on vs. McNabb, and the competition? Rating is a decent stat but doesnt tell the whole story. As far as the touchdown/interception ratio, one of the greatest QBs of all time has probably one of the worst...Favre. He still has a ring and got to another superbowl with a team that in my opinion was not nearly as talented as the TO team that went to the SB.


Quote:
He doesn't deserve the crap he gets, the injuries are definitely a worry, but he shouldn't be hated for it. As for the SB, it's amazing how much McNabb gets blamed when Reid in the O-line should be blamed a lot more.
Which brings another one of my points about McNabb. What QB in the NFL has better tools to compensate for when your O-line is not playing so hot???? The guy's pure stubborness and unwillingness to use these tools due to some racial sterotype is another big problem he has.

Quote:
I remember remarking to friends at the time that it would be a miracle if Donovan made it through the game because our O-line was getting absolutely dominated by NE's defensive front and the coaching staff just flat-out refused to run the ball. Donovan dropped back nearly 60 times in that game, that's an exact recipe for getting massacred by NE's front 7 and that was exactly what happened, McNabb took way too much punishment.
Its obviously been years since I saw the game, I will take your word for it that the Oline played that bad, however, I point to my statement above and also to the fact that you can hardly blame 3 interceptions on the Oline, especially with a QB that is supposed to be so great at protecting the ball, although for some reason in the SB and the 3 NFC championships the previous 3 years he was very average in protecting the ball.

Oh, and great QBs would have won that game in the end. NE did not play its best football that day and McNabb had plenty of time to come back and win that game, he was too busy puking...very composed leader there.

Quote:
I place the most blame for that SB on Andy Reid who had 2 weeks to prepare for that game and was comprehensively outcoached. Of course, I've been screaming at this team to run the ball for the last 5 years and I'll probably do it again this year.
I certainly will never argue that Reid gets outcoached cause it happens more often than not, and almost everyone certainly is outcoached by NE (not sure what happened this pas SB though, seemed like BB took a vacation)

As much as I would love to see them run the ball as well, they played a couple NFC championships where they were more of a running team. Remember the 3 running back attack? That didnt work either. No, Westbrook wasnt as good back then, but I dont think that is the cure all for everything. NE has always been a pretty pass heavy offense, with worse receivers than us up until last year. Hasnt hurt them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger73549 View Post
I won't sulk much, he will be overthrowing those new wideouts like he overthrows our current ones! lol.

In all seriousness, I don't want to see McNabb playing for another team while we have Kevin Kolb behind Center. I'm not sold on Kolb AT ALL.
I certainly wont sulk either....other than the year with Trash and Pinkston as 1 and 2, I have been fine with the receivers. People need to realize that our #1 receiver is Westbrook. People conveniently forget that when they complain about who McNabb has to throw to.

I would be fine with trading a first round pick for Boldin

Quote:
Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
It's not like they'll be any worse than Charles Johnson and Torrence Small.
Two guys who were 1000 yard receivers multiple times before coming here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadPhish5858 View Post
Wow, not bad. Looks like McNabb played a good game.
He did look good (see I am not always negative) but like others said, it is preseason and NE doesnt give a crap

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Jackson looked really good, could be a very nice weapon for us down the line.
I am liking this guy...he looks like he has those atheletic instincts that cant be taught, similar to Westbrook.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForsbergIsOdin View Post
For me it will ALWAYS be Flyers first. I do love the Eagles, but Flyers are where my heart lies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbr2 View Post
couldn't of said it better man.
+1


Last edited by GKJ: 08-26-2008 at 10:01 AM.
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Old
08-26-2008, 11:13 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Ok, so according to these statistics Romo is the best QB in the league, right??? How many QBs would you take over Romo? I can think of at least 4-5 right away and probably more if I think about it and I actually like the guy.
I wouldn't take that many QBs over Romo as of right now. He's been a VERY good QB the last couple of years, and those stats show it. Romo suffers from the "he's a nobody" syndrome more than any other QB in the league. Take out Manning and Brady, and it's a pretty short list you'd want to replace Romo with...same as it is with McNabb.

It isn't always greener...and those stats show that. You should note what I'm refuting isn't that McNabb, Romo, or anyone else have holes in their respective games...just that EVERYONE does, and those two, for example, aren't nearly the bad option you're making them out to be.

Quote:
You can take this two ways,

1) Stats are meaningless on both sides, your position or mine. I will even ignore stats and still argue why I dont think McNabb is a great quarterback and simply a good, sometimes very good, but wildy inconsistent QB. Ignoring stats lets look at his mental state and everything that he has complained about in the media, how he has handled situations that called for a leader to step up, how he handled the TO situations which he himself saying he wish he handled differently....Regardless of physical ability, the guy does not have the consistency, swagger, leadership ability and mental state to be a championship QB as the leader and focal point of the team. Now if you want to argue that he can win a championship if the eagles come up with a dominant running game and make that the focal point, I wont argue. Trent Dilfer did it as well...anyone want him as their QB?
Those stats directly refute your belief that McNabb is wildly inconsistent against the body of work of other QBs in the league. ALL QBs are inconsistent...ALL of 'em. Some less than others, however, and McNabb is notably less inconsistent than the majority of the league.

You may not like his personality, but even you must admit that you're not in that room (always difficult to comment from the outside), and you're on extremely tenuous ground when you start using things like "intangibles" to make arguments...intangibles are notably easy and difficult to discuss for a couple reasons: 1) you can define them however the hell you want to define 'em; 2) they appear and disappear like smoke.

For example, the mythology surrounding Derek Jeter is an easy example to use in discussing the stupidity of "intangibles" as an argument piece. The guy is known as Mr. Clutch and this great playoff performer. The last 8 years or whatever, the guy hasn't been good at all in the playoffs. He's a bad defensive player who hasn't gotten it done, but because he did it 10 years ago he's still got this mythos around 'em.

If you're going to hang your criticism on intangibles, you better be ready to swallow your pride when they guy does come up big.

Quote:
Look at Elway, never put up the best numbers as far as accuracy, rating, etc. However, he had the intangibles needed to WIN. How many comebacks did the guy have?? Now I dont like him as much as some others, I think he was merely a supporting cast player by the time he won those SBs, but the intangibles is what McNabb is clearly missing.
See, right here you've fallen into a trap as far as your criticism of McNabb and dismissal of those that the Eagles have, or have not surrounded him with. In the sport of football, everyone is a supporting cast player. It's too much of a team sport. If you have a horrible offensive line, your passing game is going to suffer no matter how good your QB and receivers are...same goes for your running game.

It's by far and away the most team oriented sport out there...everyone is simply a supporting cast member.

Quote:
2) Great stats doesnt necessarily mean a great QB
Certainly don't, but when taken against the body of work of other QBs it paints a picture worth considering in looking at the relative merits of one against his competition at his position. It's easy to tear any QB down, but if you want to make your analysis worthwhile one has to look at the rest of the people doing that job...McNabb fares pretty well there.

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08-26-2008, 12:05 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I wouldn't take that many QBs over Romo as of right now. He's been a VERY good QB the last couple of years, and those stats show it. Romo suffers from the "he's a nobody" syndrome more than any other QB in the league. Take out Manning and Brady, and it's a pretty short list you'd want to replace Romo with...same as it is with McNabb.

It isn't always greener...and those stats show that. You should note what I'm refuting isn't that McNabb, Romo, or anyone else have holes in their respective games...just that EVERYONE does, and those two, for example, aren't nearly the bad option you're making them out to be.



Those stats directly refute your belief that McNabb is wildly inconsistent against the body of work of other QBs in the league. ALL QBs are inconsistent...ALL of 'em. Some less than others, however, and McNabb is notably less inconsistent than the majority of the league.

You may not like his personality, but even you must admit that you're not in that room (always difficult to comment from the outside), and you're on extremely tenuous ground when you start using things like "intangibles" to make arguments...intangibles are notably easy and difficult to discuss for a couple reasons: 1) you can define them however the hell you want to define 'em; 2) they appear and disappear like smoke.

For example, the mythology surrounding Derek Jeter is an easy example to use in discussing the stupidity of "intangibles" as an argument piece. The guy is known as Mr. Clutch and this great playoff performer. The last 8 years or whatever, the guy hasn't been good at all in the playoffs. He's a bad defensive player who hasn't gotten it done, but because he did it 10 years ago he's still got this mythos around 'em.

If you're going to hang your criticism on intangibles, you better be ready to swallow your pride when they guy does come up big.



See, right here you've fallen into a trap as far as your criticism of McNabb and dismissal of those that the Eagles have, or have not surrounded him with. In the sport of football, everyone is a supporting cast player. It's too much of a team sport. If you have a horrible offensive line, your passing game is going to suffer no matter how good your QB and receivers are...same goes for your running game.

It's by far and away the most team oriented sport out there...everyone is simply a supporting cast member.



Certainly don't, but when taken against the body of work of other QBs it paints a picture worth considering in looking at the relative merits of one against his competition at his position. It's easy to tear any QB down, but if you want to make your analysis worthwhile one has to look at the rest of the people doing that job...McNabb fares pretty well there.
Jester, this is what I wanted to avoid getting into, cause we are just going to go in circles again like we did last time....which if I remember correctly ended with you saying you see the point I am making, you just didnt agree with it. I may be wrong, it could have been someone else that said that.

We are obviously never going to agree on this. I dont think the guy is a horrible QB by any means, and never said that. I would certainly take him over at least half of the QBs in the league, however, only 1 wins each year. I just dont think he is great, and I certainly dont think he is a top 5 QB in the league like some do, I didnt when he was at his best either.

A few points in response to your post:

Would definitely take over McNabb....

Brady
Manning
Breese
Palmer
Rothlisberger
Romo
Hassleback

You then need to factor in the some other guys that I would think long and hard about, especially if you factor in age and upside:

Cutler
Gerrard

Hell, even Kurt Warner is still putting up great numbers and I would have taken Favre last year as well. Not sure what he has left though.

Up until 2004, I would agree that McNabb was consistent, in the regular season. The playoffs tell a different story where he could never come up big in the end, his ability to protect the ball was gone, etc.

Since then, he has been wildly inconsistent, looking like a superstar for a couple games, and then like Bobby Hoying for a couple of games. Not to mention that the guy cant stay healthy. He holds onto the ball for two long. Never lets his receivers go get the ball like more accurate QBs do, he constantly waits for that separation or for guys to be wide open. Which in my opinion is one of the reason's this team calls a lot of routes where he doesnt need to hit the receiver in stride, there are more curls and routes where the receivers are standing still, which is the complete opposite of what the west coast offense is supposed to be. He is not great at this. Now you can argue that Reid hasnt designed an offense that works with his QB and I will agree with that for the most part, but it doesnt change the fact that the guy doesnt want to use his natural abilities. He wants to prove to everyone he is a pocket passer and he really isnt the best in that role. He is at his best when he is scrambling, rolling out and improvising.

I think your comment on everyone being a supporting cast player depends on the type of team you have. On the Baltimore Ravens, Trent Dilfer was a supporting cast player. When Big Ben won the SB with the Steelers, he was a supporting cast player (he has now developed into one of the top QBs in the league) Guys like Brady, Manning, Palmer, etc. are the focal point of their team and the team is only going to go as far as they are going to take them. The Eagles are only going to go as far as McNabb is going to take them, and to date, he has only been able to get them so far, but not over the hump. The QB (and goalie in NHL) are two of the only positions where I think one guy can make a world of difference to a team. QBs touch the ball on every play and goalies are on the ice for a whole game and the last line of defense.

McNabb is not THAT kind of QB in my mind. He is not going to take you to the promised land. If you surround him with greatness, he will be very good, but great players make others better, not the other way around. TO brought the swagger and attitude to the 2004 team that a leader does, that the QB typically brings, not even considering his statistical impact.

I will say it simply like I always do, great QBs like Brady, Favre, etc. make medicore and good players good and great, respectively. McNabb needs that great, superstar guy around him to make HIM better, not the other way around as it should be with a great QB.

Another kind of QB that can win is one that just manages the game effectively, while the stars are the rest of the team. Something this team can be with the likes of Westbrook, but I dont think McNabb is a terribly efficient field manager either.

It goes back to this, I think the guy is good, not great, and I dont think he has what it takes to "lead" a team to the SB in the sense that great QBs do.

Oh, and I think Randall Cunningham will take exception to the fact that you think a passing game will suffer with a terrible offensive line.

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08-26-2008, 12:46 PM
  #118
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The stats I put up were from the last 2 seasons...in the last two seasons, that's how McNabb has faired against the QB group...which is pretty well.

Lets look at your list.

Brady and Manning aren't worth discussing, which is why they were removed from the outset.

Drew Breese -- missed the playoffs with one of the most talented teams in the league while with SD. I'm not saying he isn't a good QB, but I'm saying he's got some significant blemishes too.

Carson Palmer -- has made the playoffs once in his career and gets to throw to arguably the best receiving corps in the league.

Big Ben -- his team flamed out in a big way once he became the focal point of their offense...how does that make you feel?

Romo -- choke job in the playoffs last year...

Hasselback -- how does his career differ from McNabb's?

You do a disservice to your argument when you throw Favre out there as helping his team...he's done more to hurt his team since he won his SB than he's helped it. He's a WILDLY inconsistent QB, prone to throwing interceptions at any moment, and has routinely done so in key moments with the game on the line. As an Eagles fan, you should be more than aware of that propensity of his. It was most recently on display last year in the NFC Championship.

Moreover, you hold Manning up in a light that borders on the absurd as far as context. The man throws to TWO no. 1 WRs, and has had one of the best TEs in football to throw to throughout his career. He's also been paired with very good RBs. However, the more damning aspect to your argument with regard to Peyton Manning is that he never really won anything until the most recent SB...on a team filled with talent...and on a team that finally won because they drafted the defensive personnel to get them there.

Manning...is a supporting cast member, just like EVERY football player is.

I have no problem with your criticism of McNabb on the surface, I have a problem with your use of straw man arguments to level that criticism.

Brady - best coached team in football, great talent on defense, and wins through all the little things.

Manning - most talented offensive team position-by-position in the league...didn't win until they got talent on defense.

Breese - has never won anything...has missed the playoffs TWICE now on teams with high expectations.

Palmer - one playoff appearance.

Big Ben - defense and running...defense and running...got away from that...nothing.

Romo - no playoff wins.

Hasselback - a lot of hype, one SB appearance.

Personal preference? Fine, but don't present them as having performed all that better.

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08-26-2008, 01:28 PM
  #119
mikedifr
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The stats I put up were from the last 2 seasons...in the last two seasons, that's how McNabb has faired against the QB group...which is pretty well.

Lets look at your list.

Brady and Manning aren't worth discussing, which is why they were removed from the outset.

Drew Breese -- missed the playoffs with one of the most talented teams in the league while with SD. I'm not saying he isn't a good QB, but I'm saying he's got some significant blemishes too.

Carson Palmer -- has made the playoffs once in his career and gets to throw to arguably the best receiving corps in the league.

Big Ben -- his team flamed out in a big way once he became the focal point of their offense...how does that make you feel?

Romo -- choke job in the playoffs last year...

Hasselback -- how does his career differ from McNabb's?

You do a disservice to your argument when you throw Favre out there as helping his team...he's done more to hurt his team since he won his SB than he's helped it. He's a WILDLY inconsistent QB, prone to throwing interceptions at any moment, and has routinely done so in key moments with the game on the line. As an Eagles fan, you should be more than aware of that propensity of his. It was most recently on display last year in the NFC Championship.

Moreover, you hold Manning up in a light that borders on the absurd as far as context. The man throws to TWO no. 1 WRs, and has had one of the best TEs in football to throw to throughout his career. He's also been paired with very good RBs. However, the more damning aspect to your argument with regard to Peyton Manning is that he never really won anything until the most recent SB...on a team filled with talent...and on a team that finally won because they drafted the defensive personnel to get them there.

Manning...is a supporting cast member, just like EVERY football player is.

I have no problem with your criticism of McNabb on the surface, I have a problem with your use of straw man arguments to level that criticism.

Brady - best coached team in football, great talent on defense, and wins through all the little things.

Manning - most talented offensive team position-by-position in the league...didn't win until they got talent on defense.

Breese - has never won anything...has missed the playoffs TWICE now on teams with high expectations.

Palmer - one playoff appearance.

Big Ben - defense and running...defense and running...got away from that...nothing.

Romo - no playoff wins.

Hasselback - a lot of hype, one SB appearance.

Personal preference? Fine, but don't present them as having performed all that better.
Look at Palmer's and Rothlisberger's statistics....certainly very good QBs. Any issues with Pittsburgh have nothing to do with him. Yes, Palmer has had great receivers, but what the hell else has that team had???? Goes to show you that receivers arent the be all end all of a good team (not that you are saying they are)

Rothlisberger completed 65% of his passes, 32 TDs and 12 interceptions and a rating of 104. How can you say any issue with Pittsburgh is related to him??? Palmer throws more interceptions than I would like but I would take that over a QB that holds onto the ball too long...

I dont hold Manning up in any light, I am not a big fan of him at all to be honest with you, but I would certainly take him over McNabb and think that he is capable of leading his team to victory. We already know we disagree on Brady. You are the believer that his system makes him where I think he is the best QB in the NFL since Joe Montana or Favre in his prime years.

Favre has been inconsistent in his mid thirties and up, McNabb is just hitting the age where Farve started to become inconsistent. In his prime 94-97, there was not a better QB in the league. Look at his numbers. Always 30+ TDs and less than 15 interceptions. After that he had a couple bad years and then was good 3 of the next 4. He has been inconsistent, but not as much as you make him out to be. You also need to consider that similar to McNabb, Favre's greatest strenght might be his greatest weakness, his willingness to take chances. It resulted in a championship and almost a 2nd one. It started to hurt him once he got older. Doesnt matter anyway, he has his ring and will go down as one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game.

You also need to factor in that the guy always played, through injuries, which probably contributed to the inconsistency. McNabb keeps getting serious injuries to the point where he cant play. Not his fault, but durability of a player is always a consideration in my opinion.

Hassleback and Breese - both in my opinion are much better pure QBs than McNabb, when I say QB I mean passing the ball. They are much more accurate and much more efficient. He is another one that didnt have any receivers (while in San Diego anyway) Never said any of these guys were perfect by any means, just said who I would take over McNabb. Hassleback has a similar career to McNabb, but again, I take him for his better passing, actually using his athletic ability when needed, and as someone who I think fits a "west coast" type offense much better.

Romo is young and should continue to develop and not choke anymore. That remains to be seen but my assumption is that he will get better in that area, he certainly has the ability.

You accuse me of straw man arguments, I hardly see that....we are taking bits and pieces of it at a time here. If I put out my entire argument of McNabb, it would take up 3 or 4 pages of quantitative and qualitative support.

Can we just agree to disagree and get on with our lives. I am done with this. Out of respect to everyone that wants to come on here and talk about the Eagles, I didnt want to regurgitate all my ******** about McNabb and hog the thread. I cant promise I wont make a sarcastic remark here and there, but by no means do I want to go into this anymore. I have been doing it for years and frankly as his career keeps going, unless something changes here or he goes elsewhere and wins something, my side of the debate continues to be true.

For his sake I hope he wins a SB, preferably here in Philly, I just dont see it happening. I think he has a couple deficiencies in his skillset that will prevent him from doing that. While everyone has holes in their game, his, in my opinon, are in the key areas that make a QB great....and he hasnt improved much on them over his career. He is what he is.

We can continue in PM if you want, I enjoy debates with you cause we have enough respect for each other not to take anything personally or get juvenile about it...its just too much for others that dont care to be reading this junk. Lets talk about the Eagles in this thread without it becoming the "mikedifr bashes McNabb" thread.

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08-26-2008, 02:38 PM
  #120
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QB's io would take over McNabb
-Brady and Manning- obvious

Bree's- He is a good pocket passer and has done good in NO.

Palmer- great drop back passer and 1 of the best arms in league. He does have good receivers but he is still very good. Reason they are never in playoffs is defense.

Big Ben- younger and great tools, he has never had serious injury problems. Already won a SB (although that team relied on the run) his youth def. puts him ahead of McNabb

Romo- although he has choked, he is still yopung. Same things were said about Manning until he won a SB

Other considerations
- Hasselback, Garrard, Young, Cutler, Ryan, Russel
---alot of them for youth and potential

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08-26-2008, 02:50 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by mm6492 View Post
QB's io would take over McNabb
-Brady and Manning- obvious

Bree's- He is a good pocket passer and has done good in NO.

Palmer- great drop back passer and 1 of the best arms in league. He does have good receivers but he is still very good. Reason they are never in playoffs is defense.

Big Ben- younger and great tools, he has never had serious injury problems. Already won a SB (although that team relied on the run) his youth def. puts him ahead of McNabb

Romo- although he has choked, he is still yopung. Same things were said about Manning until he won a SB

Other considerations
- Hasselback, Garrard, Young, Cutler, Ryan, Russel
---alot of them for youth and potential
We are basically on the same page....I didnt want to go as young as guys like Ryan. At least Garrard, Young and Cutler have proven they can play in the NFL. Whether they meet their potential has yet to be decided. Young is an interesting one. I always thought he would be pretty similar to McNabb in that he had a boat load of athletic ability, but not as great of a passer, but he has shown he can be a pretty accurate passer. He did throw way to many interceptions last year, but if his decision making improves, he might end up a little better than I thought.

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08-26-2008, 03:17 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
We are basically on the same page....I didnt want to go as young as guys like Ryan. At least Garrard, Young and Cutler have proven they can play in the NFL. Whether they meet their potential has yet to be decided. Young is an interesting one. I always thought he would be pretty similar to McNabb in that he had a boat load of athletic ability, but not as great of a passer, but he has shown he can be a pretty accurate passer. He did throw way to many interceptions last year, but if his decision making improves, he might end up a little better than I thought.
yea Ryan might have been a bit to young but he ahs looked good in the preaseason (yes I know its the preseason)

Vince Young has struggled in preseason wioth his accuracy. However, his receivers are eaqsily 1 of teh 3 worst goups in the league and they will rely heavily on running Lendale White and the immprressive roookie Chris Johnson. His receivers are terrible and they have not upgraded them at all. Lets just say, if Jason Avant went there, he would battling for a starting job

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08-27-2008, 02:43 AM
  #123
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For me it goes
1. Flyers
2.Phillies
3. Rams
I'm not an eagles fan

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08-27-2008, 03:16 AM
  #124
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The first time the Chargers made the playoffs it was a genuine shock. That was considered a doormat team outside of LT and it was only going to be a matter of time until he left. Most of the guys who make the Chargers good today came on after 2003, or were still too green to be considered underacheivers. They made the playoffs in Brees' 3rd year as a starter too, it's not like he is Jon Kitna or something. His time with the Saints has been about as good as you can hope for.


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08-27-2008, 10:01 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
The first time the Chargers made the playoffs it was a genuine shock. That was considered a doormat team outside of LT and it was only going to be a matter of time until he left. Most of the guys who make the Chargers good today came on after 2003, or were still too green to be considered underacheivers. They made the playoffs in Brees' 3rd year as a starter too, it's not like he is Jon Kitna or something. His time with the Saints has been about as good as you can hope for.
That team that missed the playoffs when Brees busted his shoulder in Week 16 was really, really good...they also had the toughest schedule in football, but they should have made the playoffs.

Brees was AWFUL the first four weeks of last year, which sunk the Saints playoff hopes from the outset.

However, I'm not saying he isn't a good QB...I'm just saying he's had his inconsistencies and blemishes that seem to get swept under the rug.

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