HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Gillis targeting Schneider

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-28-2008, 01:10 AM
  #1
fogducker
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,399
vCash: 500
Gillis targeting Schneider

tsn.ca

Gillis also looking for a centre (duh..)

fogducker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2008, 01:12 AM
  #2
Randall Graves*
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 18,621
vCash: 500
What are considered the canucks expendable assets? If they got Schneider then they could flip another dman into a center?

Randall Graves* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2008, 01:18 AM
  #3
pitseleh
Registered User
 
pitseleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,645
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Graves View Post
What are considered the canucks expendable assets? If they got Schneider then they could flip another dman into a center?
Yeah, I think that'd be the plan. Acquire a short-term fix like Schneider then try to flip a long-term asset like Bieksa in a package for a center.

pitseleh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2008, 01:24 AM
  #4
Hi-wayman
Registered User
 
Hi-wayman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Graves View Post
What are considered the canucks expendable assets? If they got Schneider then they could flip another dman into a center?
Not likely. Three of our older, top defensemen have NTC's. Schnieder would be condisered a short term fix for this season only, a quality defenseman whom Gillis would expect to get cheap (Burke has to dump some salary and Schnieder is the best source). Of our younger defensemen, only Bieksa, Edler and to some extent Krajicek have any meaningful trade value, but they are being groomed for the eventual replacement for Ohlund, Mitchell & Salo over the next 2 to 3 years. In the mean time, they fill the roles of #4, 5 & 6 defensemen on a team that suddenly lacks much in defensive depth until Sauve & Ellington are ready.

Gillis will continue to be patient and wait for teams to want to dispose of players at less then market value and he likely will use draft picks as trading chips.

Hi-wayman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2008, 01:27 AM
  #5
Bobby Lou
Moustache Power
 
Bobby Lou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The Crease
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,379
vCash: 894
I don't mind Schneider at all, and the Canucks don't really have a high calibre puck-mover on the back-end, but I'd be very tentative in giving up anything substantial for a 40 year old offensive d-man.

Bobby Lou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2008, 01:36 AM
  #6
pitseleh
Registered User
 
pitseleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,645
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
Of our younger defensemen, only Bieksa, Edler and to some extent Krajicek have any meaningful trade value, but they are being groomed for the eventual replacement for Ohlund, Mitchell & Salo over the next 2 to 3 years. In the mean time, they fill the roles of #4, 5 & 6 defensemen on a team that suddenly lacks much in defensive depth until Sauve & Ellington are ready.
I think that's being conservative in terms of long-term planning. I think it's realistic to expect that Salo will be able to finish out his contract (3 more years) and that Ohlund and Mitchell will play until they are 36 or 37 (so ~5 more years each).

With that in mind it isn't a terrible idea to move one of the young defensemen ready now under the premise that by the time two or three of those players have retired you should have developed a defenseman or two more through the draft (in addition to at least one of the prospects currently on the team). In a worst case scenario where you don't get the expected years out of your defensemen, there is always the option of looking for a replacement through the trade/free agent market.

Obviously I don't want him to mortgage the future completely, but being too conservative with the defense assets in place today would be detrimental to the on-ice product now.

pitseleh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2008, 01:38 AM
  #7
Hi-wayman
Registered User
 
Hi-wayman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
Yeah, I think that'd be the plan. Acquire a short-term fix like Schneider then try to flip a long-term asset like Bieksa in a package for a center.
I have to disagree with you. Though the team would not be a strong cup contender, the team as it stands now has enough players to start the season and almost assuredly make the playoffs barring a similar horrendous injury filled season like the last. Any defenseman or centre that Gillis acquires now will be just to add more depth to the list of players already signed. Why would Gillis trade Bieksa or Edler just to get an extra centre to compete against Wellwood, Krog, Kesler, Shannon, Hodgson or Demitea for the 2nd or 3rd line centre spot for the season opener. Would it not be best to wait and see if those already on the team can fill the position prior to trading away a key defensive player?

Hi-wayman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2008, 01:43 AM
  #8
pitseleh
Registered User
 
pitseleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,645
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
I have to disagree with you. Though the team would not be a strong cup contender, the team as it stands now has enough players to start the season and almost assuredly make the playoffs barring a similar horrendous injury filled season like the last. Any defenseman or centre that Gillis acquires now will be just to add more depth to the list of players already signed. Why would Gillis trade Bieksa or Edler just to get an extra centre to compete against Wellwood, Krog, Kesler, Shannon, Hodgson or Demitea for the 2nd or 3rd line centre spot for the season opener. Would it not be best to wait and see if those already on the team can fill the position prior to trading away a key defensive player?
The way I see it, while the Canucks have a bunch of depth they are lacking in higher end talent on the forward lines, and with only one position left to fill (assuming one of the second line wing positions is open to competition at camp) it stands as the best opportunity to make a significant impact on the team. Obviously I don't want to do it if Bieksa is being moved for a marginal upgrade. But as part of a package for a strong(er), preferably long-term top-6 option I think it makes sense.

Schneider upgrades the offense from the defense substantially, and with a quality forward inserted into the top-6 I think the Canucks would be in good shape going into the season.

pitseleh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2008, 01:45 AM
  #9
Spawn
Registered User
 
Spawn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,592
vCash: 500
He's a decent hockey player, and on a 1 year deal with plenty of cap space on the Canucks he'd be a good pickup. I didn't like the signing for the ducks in relation to the d-core they had and the cap space they had but for the Canucks I think he'd be a good fit. Would help the PP.

My only concern if I was a Canucks fan would be adding yet another injury prone defenseman to a defense core that already has issues with a few guys not being able to stay healthy for an entire season.

If all healthy though, a defense of Ohlund, Mitchell, Salo, Edler, Bieksa and Schneider would be one of the best in the league though for sure.

Spawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2008, 01:53 AM
  #10
myrocketsgotcracked
Registered User
 
myrocketsgotcracked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country:
Posts: 1,871
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
I have to disagree with you. Though the team would not be a strong cup contender, the team as it stands now has enough players to start the season and almost assuredly make the playoffs barring a similar horrendous injury filled season like the last. Any defenseman or centre that Gillis acquires now will be just to add more depth to the list of players already signed. Why would Gillis trade Bieksa or Edler just to get an extra centre to compete against Wellwood, Krog, Kesler, Shannon, Hodgson or Demitea for the 2nd or 3rd line centre spot for the season opener. Would it not be best to wait and see if those already on the team can fill the position prior to trading away a key defensive player?
because, as it stand right now, those guys aren't ideal 2nd line center material. eventually hoghson will be, but if we want to compete now we can't count on the like of krogs or shannon to anchor the 2nd line. demitra is better suited on the wing IMO. i wouldn't want to wait till the season start and find out none of them can handle the responsibility, once you fall behind in the west it is really hard to catch up.
plus with ohlund, salo, mitchell, and if we make the trade, schneider, we have an excellent group of top 4. we can afford to deal either bieksa or edler for offensive help, especially with krajicek still in the system and need playing time. of course we aren't going to sell of bieksa or edler for a declining player, but somebody young and offensive (if we can acquire those kind of player) is acceptable return right now.

myrocketsgotcracked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2008, 01:57 AM
  #11
TOML
Registered User
 
TOML's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Walnut Grove
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,104
vCash: 500
I suppose Krajicek and Cowan are available. Pettinger, maybe.

TOML is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2008, 02:09 AM
  #12
Vatican Roulette
Mona Lisa Lily
 
Vatican Roulette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: The bushes
Country: United States
Posts: 8,495
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
Not likely. Three of our older, top defensemen have NTC's. Schnieder would be condisered a short term fix for this season only, a quality defenseman whom Gillis would expect to get cheap (Burke has to dump some salary and Schnieder is the best source). Of our younger defensemen, only Bieksa, Edler and to some extent Krajicek have any meaningful trade value, but they are being groomed for the eventual replacement for Ohlund, Mitchell & Salo over the next 2 to 3 years. In the mean time, they fill the roles of #4, 5 & 6 defensemen on a team that suddenly lacks much in defensive depth until Sauve & Ellington are ready.

Gillis will continue to be patient and wait for teams to want to dispose of players at less then market value and he likely will use draft picks as trading chips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
I think that's being conservative in terms of long-term planning. I think it's realistic to expect that Salo will be able to finish out his contract (3 more years) and that Ohlund and Mitchell will play until they are 36 or 37 (so ~5 more years each).

With that in mind it isn't a terrible idea to move one of the young defensemen ready now under the premise that by the time two or three of those players have retired you should have developed a defenseman or two more through the draft (in addition to at least one of the prospects currently on the team). In a worst case scenario where you don't get the expected years out of your defensemen, there is always the option of looking for a replacement through the trade/free agent market.

Obviously I don't want him to mortgage the future completely, but being too conservative with the defense assets in place today would be detrimental to the on-ice product now.

Thank you both, for having a hockey conversation without calling each other morons, and I mean this in the highest respect. It's been a long time since I've seen a conversation that isn't immature.

Now. I think if the Canucks could spare a d-man, likely a prospect like Ellington and a pick for Schneider, that would help in the forward position as well. On the PP the Canucks lack a guy to be the go-to man, and they have decent talent on the forward position. Givin a PP QB, I think this area would take off, rather than siging/trading for a 2nd line center. The problem in my eyes is the Canucks don't have a player that controls their PP, a dominant force, Schenider would be that guy. Another forward would be gravy, but IMO they don't need to spend the money or assets obtaining that forward, unless the PP goes to hell during the season.

A freshly drafted defensive prospect and a pick would be a great return for a salary strapped team, givin the value I think Schneider holds.


Disagree with me and thats quite fine (I don't follow the Canucks more than 12 times a year) but if you do give me a reason, I'd love to debate it in a objective manner.

__________________
So I kissed him upside the cranium with that aluminum baseball bat
Vatican Roulette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2008, 02:09 AM
  #13
Hi-wayman
Registered User
 
Hi-wayman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
I think that's being conservative in terms of long-term planning. I think it's realistic to expect that Salo will be able to finish out his contract (3 more years) and that Ohlund and Mitchell will play until they are 36 or 37 (so ~5 more years each).

With that in mind it isn't a terrible idea to move one of the young defensemen ready now under the premise that by the time two or three of those players have retired you should have developed a defenseman or two more through the draft (in addition to at least one of the prospects currently on the team). In a worst case scenario where you don't get the expected years out of your defensemen, there is always the option of looking for a replacement through the trade/free agent market.

Obviously I don't want him to mortgage the future completely, but being too conservative with the defense assets in place today would be detrimental to the on-ice product now.
For the last three season's, the Canucks have lacked enough quality forwards to fill the roster spots for the team's top six. We drafted a number of good prospects, but they were years away from playing in the NHL. Fortunately we acquired a allstar goalie and were lucky to have Bieksa and Edler develop years ahead of when they were expected to so we had a strong backend.

Time has passed and our prospects who were years away from playing in the NHL are no longer years away. Some, Hansen and Raymond are ready to play this season. Brown, Rypien & Grabner, if they aren't ready this season will be ready for the following season. Grabner may even turn into a superstar. Hodgson is likely at the most just 2 seasons away.

As a team with Demitra, Daniel & Henrik, our top six really only has three vacant roster spots, two of which likely are filled by Bernier and Raymond. That leaves just one roster spot for an unknown. Sundin was supposed to fill that spot for this season and possibly next, but if he doesn't come, do you honestly feel that not one of Grabner, Wellwood, Krog, Hansen, Shannon, Pyatt or Pettinger will not be good enough to fill that sixth spot? Definately Kesler and Edler make our defense better than it would be without one of them.

Hi-wayman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2008, 02:11 AM
  #14
Quagmier
Registered User
 
Quagmier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,868
vCash: 500
Am I crazy, or does Gillis seem to be copying off of Gainey's exam sheet?

Quagmier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2008, 02:14 AM
  #15
fogducker
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,399
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmier View Post
Am I crazy, or does Gillis seem to be copying off of Gainey's exam sheet?
or Gainey is copying Gillis

fogducker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2008, 02:19 AM
  #16
deanosaur
Registered User
 
deanosaur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: AB/MB
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,090
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
He's a decent hockey player, and on a 1 year deal with plenty of cap space on the Canucks he'd be a good pickup. I didn't like the signing for the ducks in relation to the d-core they had and the cap space they had but for the Canucks I think he'd be a good fit. Would help the PP.

My only concern if I was a Canucks fan would be adding yet another injury prone defenseman to a defense core that already has issues with a few guys not being able to stay healthy for an entire season.

If all healthy though, a defense of Ohlund, Mitchell, Salo, Edler, Bieksa and Schneider would be one of the best in the league though for sure.
He plays atleast 65+ games a season... That's better than all of the Canucks dmen.. I wouldn't necessarily call that injury prone, but he's no ironman either.

deanosaur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2008, 02:25 AM
  #17
Hi-wayman
Registered User
 
Hi-wayman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vatican Roulette View Post
Thank you both, for having a hockey conversation without calling each other morons, and I mean this in the highest respect. It's been a long time since I've seen a conversation that isn't immature.

Now. I think if the Canucks could spare a d-man, likely a prospect like Ellington and a pick for Schneider, that would help in the forward position as well. On the PP the Canucks lack a guy to be the go-to man, and they have decent talent on the forward position. Givin a PP QB, I think this area would take off, rather than siging/trading for a 2nd line center. The problem in my eyes is the Canucks don't have a player that controls their PP, a dominant force, Schenider would be that guy. Another forward would be gravy, but IMO they don't need to spend the money or assets obtaining that forward, unless the PP goes to hell during the season.

A freshly drafted defensive prospect and a pick would be a great return for a salary strapped team, givin the value I think Schneider holds.

Disagree with me and thats quite fine (I don't follow the Canucks more than 12 times a year) but if you do give me a reason, I'd love to debate it in a objective manner.
I agree. Actually the ducks may be even more interested in a forward like Pyatt or Pettinger plus a draft pick than Ellington & a pick. The Ducks really don't have much bargaining power.

Hi-wayman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2008, 02:28 AM
  #18
deanosaur
Registered User
 
deanosaur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: AB/MB
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,090
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
I agree. Actually the ducks may be even more interested in a forward like Pyatt or Pettinger plus a draft pick than Ellington & a pick. The Ducks really don't have much bargaining power.
I don't know about that.
Would Pyatt or Pettinger be good enough? I mean as in would that possibly help at all in improving scoring issues they have.

deanosaur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2008, 02:48 AM
  #19
Hi-wayman
Registered User
 
Hi-wayman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by myrocketsgotcracked View Post
because, as it stand right now, those guys aren't ideal 2nd line center material. eventually hoghson will be, but if we want to compete now we can't count on the like of krogs or shannon to anchor the 2nd line. demitra is better suited on the wing IMO. i wouldn't want to wait till the season start and find out none of them can handle the responsibility, once you fall behind in the west it is really hard to catch up.
plus with ohlund, salo, mitchell, and if we make the trade, schneider, we have an excellent group of top 4. we can afford to deal either bieksa or edler for offensive help, especially with krajicek still in the system and need playing time. of course we aren't going to sell of bieksa or edler for a declining player, but somebody young and offensive (if we can acquire those kind of player) is acceptable return right now.
No matter how good a young & offensive player the Canucks got, we could not compete against teams like Pittsbourgh, Washington, LA, Ottawa, Edmonton as an offensive style of play team. We don't have the depth of those types of forwards those teams have. Nor are we going to get a Malkin, a Crosby or the like for Bieksa or Edler in trade.

Vancouver's strength is the quality and depth of defensive role players on our team. It starts in goal with Luongo and spreads out with a strong top six on defense and a strong bottom six on our forward lines. To weaken any part of that just to improve our top six doesn't give our team a better chance at the Cup. Reducing our team's strengths just leads us into that medioratim of average teams that have quality players at each level, but lack any special advantage over the rest of the league.

Yes we need to score more goals, but that can be achieved in many ways. Bernier and Demitra should be better than Naslund and Morrison (though I'd love to get Morrison back). Our strong defensive style should prevent a few more goals this season while also being able to add to the offense. The bottom six has improved immensely and should help the PK. While the top six is only slightly improved, the type of players Gillis is sighning are the type that usually are very good on special teams.

To try an make this a Cup team in one season is not realistic. Trading away players who should be there to help you two & three seasons away is a step backwards in my opinion and in two or three seasons Hodgson and Grabner will both be there ready to play.

Hi-wayman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2008, 02:55 AM
  #20
Hi-wayman
Registered User
 
Hi-wayman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by deangamblin View Post
I don't know about that.
Would Pyatt or Pettinger be good enough? I mean as in would that possibly help at all in improving scoring issues they have.
Pyatt is actually a pretty under-rated player. He is a solid third line winger who has little problem filling in on the second line when needed.

The Ducks know they will not get value for Schnieder. Moving him will be a salary dump. I just think the Ducks would be more interested in a player who can fill a roster spot than acquiring a prospect who is still a couple of years away.

Hi-wayman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2008, 03:28 AM
  #21
Kesler Kills Kommies
Registered User
 
Kesler Kills Kommies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,575
vCash: 500
he is 39 years old, no thanks

Kesler Kills Kommies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2008, 03:32 AM
  #22
Sean Garrity
Shut up and Dance!
 
Sean Garrity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Nut
Country: United States
Posts: 9,431
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
Pyatt is actually a pretty under-rated player. He is a solid third line winger who has little problem filling in on the second line when needed.

The Ducks know they will not get value for Schnieder. Moving him will be a salary dump. I just think the Ducks would be more interested in a player who can fill a roster spot than acquiring a prospect who is still a couple of years away.
I could almost guarantee you, unless the player is a 2nd/1st line scoring winger and selanne doesn't resign(both are very unlikely) the ducks simply want to dump his salary. Assuming Selanne comes back our lines look like this.

Ryan - Getzlaf - Perry
Kunitz - Morisson - Selanne
Moen - Pahlsson - Niedermayer
3 of Carter, Suts, Parros, Marchant, May

Pronger-OD
Nieds-Beauch
Huskins-Montador

No need for anyone really.

Would Vancouver possibly want Marchant to look at as a possible 2nd line center? Or even 3rd line center and promote Kesler. (I honestly have no idea, so please don't rip this idea too bad)

Sean Garrity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2008, 03:40 AM
  #23
Trends Analyst
Squirrel!
 
Trends Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,619
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by karacter View Post

Would Vancouver possibly want Marchant to look at as a possible 2nd line center? Or even 3rd line center and promote Kesler. (I honestly have no idea, so please don't rip this idea too bad)

Nah, not at all, Kesler is an ideal 3rd line center, he thrives there.

Trends Analyst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2008, 03:44 AM
  #24
VelvetJones
Registered User
 
VelvetJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,416
vCash: 500
I could see it if they have a trade for a forward in the works. Lots of cap space and they could sacrifice one d-man.

VelvetJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2008, 04:55 AM
  #25
Randall Graves*
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 18,621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
He's a decent hockey player, and on a 1 year deal with plenty of cap space on the Canucks he'd be a good pickup. I didn't like the signing for the ducks in relation to the d-core they had and the cap space they had but for the Canucks I think he'd be a good fit. Would help the PP.

My only concern if I was a Canucks fan would be adding yet another injury prone defenseman to a defense core that already has issues with a few guys not being able to stay healthy for an entire season.

If all healthy though, a defense of Ohlund, Mitchell, Salo, Edler, Bieksa and Schneider would be one of the best in the league though for sure.
He's a top 3 defensemen that's more than just a decent hockey player.

Randall Graves* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:42 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.