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Jagrs dad gives his 2 cents on last season.

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Old
08-27-2008, 04:35 PM
  #76
Bluenote13
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
I very curious to see how many Drury defenders there will be if he puts up another 55pt season and the Rangers don't make the PO's. It's going to be funny as hell.
Nice. You're a Ranger fan right?


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08-27-2008, 04:47 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
yeah but....what about the stuff drury does on the ice that doesn't show up on the back of a hockey card....like faceoff abilty, penalty killing, etc....

you get 60 points plus all the great defensive things drury does....in the end it all equals out....
How about you get all those things and nobody scored more goals than him.

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08-27-2008, 06:53 PM
  #78
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Jagr's Old Man can KMA. Boo Hoo, the Rangers stopped catering to his Sunny Boy. The Apple doesn't fall far, folks.

Jagr is gone. Who gives a rat's ass about what old man Jagr thinks? We have a new more well balanced team and a new season.

Let's Go Rangers!

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08-28-2008, 07:58 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Nice. You're a Ranger fan right?

yeah I'm a Rangers fan. i'm just saying that this board likes to change their stance on players very fast and very easily. If Drury has a bad year you will see alot of players who defended him now, saying that he is a burden and arguing to get rid of him. That's all that that meant.

and yes, I do not think we will make the playoffs this year w/ this crap lineup.

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08-28-2008, 08:08 AM
  #80
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we had a stanley cup in our hands with Jagr and co. just needed a few more pieces to the puzzle, maybe defense.

hard to let that go, how close we were.

ANYWAY, new season, new team completely...lets see how we do. go rangers.

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08-28-2008, 08:21 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Yeah, acting like an idiot and getting your friend killed is much much harder than your own mother dying. Then to be traded away from the region where the accident occurred and spared the constant attention of the Atlanta media? Much more difficult, yes.
yes that is alot harder than having a parent die. Everybody's parents will die eventually it is a part of life. Accidentally murdering your best friend is a burden that you will feel EVERY SINGLE DAY for the REST OF YOUR LIFE. Trust me I have a couple friends who killed somebody in a car accidents, and not a day goes by when they aren't tortured by it.


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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I never said Redden was better than Chara. Way to take something and distort it. I'd also argue that Boston's defensive system is better than that of Ottawa's.
Sorry, I read it fast and misunderstood. and I do agree that Boston has a better system.



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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Obviously you don't realize that, or you wouldn't keep trying to use it to validate your position. By your logic, Huet should be better than Brodeur because he's being paid more. Do you really think GM's pull these numbers out of thin air and say "**** it, we'll worry about the cap later?"
Not exactly but Huet should be putting up great #'s like a star goalie. that is what Chicago is banking on w/ that contract, if he doesn't put up top 10 #'s than yes I would say that contract is a bust, and Chicago will regret it.



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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
And yet he put up 71 points playing with line-mates that didn't suit his style of play. It's simple really; If your offense is putting up numbers, players stats will be low. If nobody is scoring goals, guys like Gomez who rely on assists wont put up big numbers.
What about all the other years when he played w/ Gio and Elias. Stop using last year and use his entire career as it is a better sample of what he really is. That is about a 70 pt player. For the sole fact that he doesn't score much. he will get his 50-55 assists but since he doesn't score more that 15 goals much he will NEVER be a consistent 80 pt player.

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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
There is a reason the Debbies don't have 90 point players falling from the windows of the Prudential center. They play a defensive system, as did we last year because we were forced to.
Take a look. at the devils by year, for NHL ranking in GF, amout of GF, than gomez' pts.

99-00 #2 251 70
00-01 #1 295 63
01-02 #14 205 48
02-03 #13 216 55
03-04 #14 213 70
05-06 # 20 242 84
06-07 #23 242 60

so even though the Debbies played a defensive system they were still almost always in the top half of the NHL in goals for except his last two seasons w/ them.

and if you want to throw in the Rangers

07-08 #23 213 70

Right about where he averaged w/ the Devils w/ the correct linemates. Do you really think it will change that much?

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08-28-2008, 08:40 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by NY Ranger86 View Post
we had a stanley cup in our hands with Jagr and co. just needed a few more pieces to the puzzle.
Like what, Brian Leetch circa 1994? Gordie Howe?

I'm sorry but the past two teams weren't anywhere near a Cup-contender, let alone a team had the Cup in its grasp.

They couldn't get past Buffalo who got handled by Ottawa who in turn got handled by the Ducks.

They lost in five to the Pens who then got thrashed by the Wings.

The Rangers could not have won a series against either Anaheim or Detroit.

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08-28-2008, 09:24 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Like what, Brian Leetch circa 1994? Gordie Howe?

I'm sorry but the past two teams weren't anywhere near a Cup-contender, let alone a team had the Cup in its grasp.

They couldn't get past Buffalo who got handled by Ottawa who in turn got handled by the Ducks.

They lost in five to the Pens who then got thrashed by the Wings.

The Rangers could not have won a series against either Anaheim or Detroit.
we were two players away two years ago. A #1 or #2 dman, and a second line center.

last year we were still two players away... Michael Nylander and a #1 or #2 dman.

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08-28-2008, 09:26 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
yes that is alot harder than having a parent die. Everybody's parents will die eventually it is a part of life. Accidentally murdering your best friend is a burden that you will feel EVERY SINGLE DAY for the REST OF YOUR LIFE. Trust me I have a couple friends who killed somebody in a car accidents, and not a day goes by when they aren't tortured by it.
I don't agree with you here to be honest, but we'll leave it at that.

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Not exactly but Huet should be putting up great #'s like a star goalie. that is what Chicago is banking on w/ that contract, if he doesn't put up top 10 #'s than yes I would say that contract is a bust, and Chicago will regret it.
In a UFA period where Theodore got 4.5 mil per year, it's no surprise that a better goalie like Huet got a better contract. That's what the market dictated. If every player hit the open market tomorrow, I doubt Drury or Gomez would get 7 mil deals, but they were 2 of the top-three centers available. THAT'S what drove their price up. It wasn't their tremendous scoring ability, it was the fact that we were getting older as a team and needed younger players. With other teams also competing for Drury and Gomez, we had to pay more. That's just the way it goes. Next year contracts will probably be even more ridiculous.

Quote:
What about all the other years when he played w/ Gio and Elias. Stop using last year and use his entire career as it is a better sample of what he really is. That is about a 70 pt player. For the sole fact that he doesn't score much. he will get his 50-55 assists but since he doesn't score more that 15 goals much he will NEVER be a consistent 80 pt player.


Take a look. at the devils by year, for NHL ranking in GF, amout of GF, than gomez' pts.

99-00 #2 251 70
00-01 #1 295 63
01-02 #14 205 48
02-03 #13 216 55
03-04 #14 213 70
05-06 # 20 242 84
06-07 #23 242 60

so even though the Debbies played a defensive system they were still almost always in the top half of the NHL in goals for except his last two seasons w/ them.

and if you want to throw in the Rangers

07-08 #23 213 70

Right about where he averaged w/ the Devils w/ the correct linemates. Do you really think it will change that much?

Correct line mates, but a poor system for Gomez. When have you ever heard Gomez say he liked playing in a defensive system?

The guy has clearly shown he is capable of putting up 80+ points. He was 10 points short of it here last year despite playing on the second line with a geriatric and a glorified goon with a little bit of a scoring touch.

Marc Savard doesn't score much, yet he tallied 96 points in 06-07 and was on pace for 86 last year.

Henrik Sedin scored 10 goals, yet still managed to break 80 points in 06-07.

I understand you don't like Gomez or Drury, but I still believe Gomez has the ability to be a 20g 65A center.

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08-28-2008, 09:58 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
In a UFA period where Theodore got 4.5 mil per year, it's no surprise that a better goalie like Huet got a better contract. That's what the market dictated. If every player hit the open market tomorrow, I doubt Drury or Gomez would get 7 mil deals, but they were 2 of the top-three centers available. THAT'S what drove their price up. It wasn't their tremendous scoring ability, it was the fact that we were getting older as a team and needed younger players. With other teams also competing for Drury and Gomez, we had to pay more. That's just the way it goes. Next year contracts will probably be even more ridiculous.
I agree w/ what you are saying, but it doesn't make up for the fact that when you sign a bigger contract your expectations go up w/ it. when Khabibulan signed that contract his expectations went up, he didn't live up to it (not entirely his fault) and the fans let him know. Shanny didn't live up to his $5mil and people on the boards were pissed. IMO Drury did not live up to his contract last year and I dont think he ever will. I understand the FA and you overpay but there is a limit to how much is acceptable. I think we went over that limit w/ Drury. He is being paid like a 80-90 pt player in the league and taking up cap space that is very very valuable especially on this team. He needs to produce. I know he will never hit 80-90 but he needs to hit 75 to justify that contract.


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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Correct line mates, but a poor system for Gomez. When have you ever heard Gomez say he liked playing in a defensive system?
But he still is playing a defensive system, and if you think for one minute that Renney will let us go to a run and gun game you're kidding yourself. Renney is a defensive mastermind, but has shown nothing about running a good offense.

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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
The guy has clearly shown he is capable of putting up 80+ points. He was 10 points short of it here last year despite playing on the second line with a geriatric and a glorified goon with a little bit of a scoring touch.
he has hit 80 one season. That was when he popped 30+goals. We are talking about a guy who played w/ Elias and Gio who each popped in at least 21 goals apiece each year when playing near a full season. The year that he hit 84 pts was when gio hit 48 goals and Elias had 45pts in 36 games. That line was on fire, and has been together to form chemistry. I don't see a wing on this team as good as Elias right now (maybe Zherdev), and Gio was a great compliment to Gomez. they also had chemistry (which never forms on this team b/c Renney changes lines too much and we just redid the entire team again).

also the Devils, while playing a defensive system created good offense. They might not shoot much but their scoring chances were always extremely good b/c they got alot of 2 on 1's b/c of turnovers. something we don't do well. Especially since we don't have good passers on the blueline like a Rafalski. and No Redden isn't nearly as good as Rafalski was/is anymore.


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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Marc Savard doesn't score much, yet he tallied 96 points in 06-07 and was on pace for 86 last year.

Henrik Sedin scored 10 goals, yet still managed to break 80 points in 06-07.
ok. it does happen, but not that often and its not something I would count on. Also Sedin had a 36 goal scorer on his line. I'm not sure that this team has a 36 goal scorer. And again his linemates were together for a while so they had good chemistry.

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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I understand you don't like Gomez or Drury, but I still believe Gomez has the ability to be a 20g 65A center.
I Like Gomez, I really do and I don't mind his contract that much. I just think you're excpectations for him are a little high given his past. I honestly would be delighted and very surprised if he hit 80 pts b/c of Renneys defensive system, and the fact that our wings just aren't that great.

Drury as a person I love as well. I just think that his contract is the most ridiculous contract in the new NHL and will never live up to expectations. I honestly think he brings the lowest bang for the buck on the team. he will never justify his salary.

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Old
08-28-2008, 10:04 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
we were two players away two years ago. A #1 or #2 dman, and a second line center.

last year we were still two players away... Michael Nylander and a #1 or #2 dman.
Look out the window. You see all your credibility moving further away from you?

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08-28-2008, 10:11 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Look out the window. You see all your credibility moving further away from you?
how b/c I think that we were extremely close in 06-07, and that we could have beaten Ottawa and Anaheim if we had a good 2nd line center and another top pairing dman?

I realize last year yeah, ok we weren't going to beat detroit. but if we had Nylander (instead of Drury, which would have let us keep Cullen) and another top pairing dman we would have been in the SC finals.

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08-28-2008, 10:13 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
how b/c I think that we were extremely close in 06-07, and that we could have beaten Ottawa and Anaheim if we had a good 2nd line center and another top pairing dman?

I realize last year yeah, ok we weren't going to beat detroit. but if we had Nylander (instead of Drury, which would have let us keep Cullen) and another top pairing dman we would have been in the SC finals.
You Nylander's agent?

So Nylander & Lidstrom and we wouldve made the finals, gotcha.

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08-28-2008, 10:36 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
how b/c I think that we were extremely close in 06-07, and that we could have beaten Ottawa and Anaheim if we had a good 2nd line center and another top pairing dman?

I realize last year yeah, ok we weren't going to beat detroit. but if we had Nylander (instead of Drury, which would have let us keep Cullen) and another top pairing dman we would have been in the SC finals.
Are you aware how many games Nylander played last season?

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08-28-2008, 10:44 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Are you aware how many games Nylander played last season?
and you are aware that maybe the injury doesn't happen on another team. Different games, schedule, opponents. Doesnt make the same ending. It could have, but it might not have. Maybe the Rangers doctors would have made him have preventive surgery in the offseason, and he only misses the first month (wouldn't have made a difference as we sucked the first month last year anyway). Point is, is who knows?

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08-28-2008, 11:02 AM
  #91
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and you are aware that maybe the injury doesn't happen on another team. Different games, schedule, opponents. Doesnt make the same ending. It could have, but it might not have. Maybe the Rangers doctors would have made him have preventive surgery in the offseason, and he only misses the first month (wouldn't have made a difference as we sucked the first month last year anyway). Point is, is who knows?
You're reaching. The most likely reason for the injury is he's 35. And he will be a 36 this season coming off playing 40 games the previous season less than half a season. And he still has 3 years left on his deal including this one.

If you think that Nylander was the missing piece to a Cup run, how is it the Rangers went just as far without him?

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08-28-2008, 11:34 AM
  #92
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You're reaching. The most likely reason for the injury is he's 35. And he will be a 36 this season coming off playing 40 games the previous season less than half a season. And he still has 3 years left on his deal including this one.

If you think that Nylander was the missing piece to a Cup run, how is it the Rangers went just as far without him?
we were better defensively this year, b/c we couldn't score.

I i didn't say it was just Nylander. I also said we needed one more top pairing dman.

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