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What would it to acquire M. Schneider?

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08-28-2008, 02:45 AM
  #1
Ched Brosky
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What would it to acquire M. Schneider?

WIth the Ducks being over the cap and still need to make extra room incase Selanne comes knocking on Burke's door, what would Anaheim take to dump Schneider?

Seeinghow its well known he will be a salary dump I think the Canucks would offer something like:

Van:
Schneider
5th round pick

Anaheim:
Pettinger
Cowan
Sharrow (might still be an RFA)
4th round pick

Canucks do this is if Sundin takes way too long to make a choice. Canucks could use a veteran puck moving dman to help them breakout out of their own zone (something hey had a problem with on a few occasions last season). This leaves the Nucks with around 5.6M in cap space to target a 2nd line center.

Ducks do this to dump about 3.9M in salary which puts them under the cap and gives them around 655K in breathing room. They also add Cowan to their group of fighters, although Cowan is a middleweight which could entice more fights seeing how most teams have lightweights or middleweights and not heavyweights. The Ducks also get a potenial 5/6 dman that is also an o-dman.

I'm thinking maybe the Nucks need to add Hansen and take out the 4th, because I still think its lopsided but hey you never know when its a salary dump.

Thoughts?

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08-28-2008, 02:57 AM
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VelvetJones
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If Selanne wants to come back Anaheim needs to get rid of more than just Scheider. I don't think Burke wants anything back but picks.

Also Anaheim night have a self imposed cap under the real cap.

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08-28-2008, 03:03 AM
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Ched Brosky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMacdonald View Post
If Selanne wants to come back Anaheim needs to get rid of more than just Scheider. I don't think Burke wants anything back but picks.

Also Anaheim night have a self imposed cap under the real cap.
I was thinking they might want just picks, but hey its not their choice seeinghow they need a favour and the Nucks are doing it for them here.

Perfect example would be last season when the same Ducks had to dump salary to sign Selanne (might have been Nieds), they traded McDonald for Doug Weight which dump around 1.5M for them in cap space.

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08-28-2008, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
I was thinking they might want just picks, but hey its not their choice seeinghow they need a favour and the Nucks are doing it for them here.

Perfect example would be last season when the same Ducks had to dump salary to sign Selanne (might have been Nieds), they traded McDonald for Doug Weight which dump around 1.5M for them in cap space.
Well the Canucks aren't going to do them any large favors. Anaheim needs to get rid of him to reach a level that would allow injury replacements and get closer to a number the organization can be comfortable with. And Burke is probably talking with the owner even though he isn't supposed to, and I think the NHL won't care.

I just don't see any way Selanne can be afforded anyway. Way too many 6+ million cap guys.

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08-28-2008, 03:31 AM
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Ched Brosky
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maybe he waits till christmas again so they can sign him at 5M and have his cap hit be around 2.5M, then they trade Marchant clearing up 2.3M, now add in the extra 600K from the Schnedier trade and they are left with 300K in cap space and now have Selanne

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08-28-2008, 03:33 AM
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VelvetJones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
maybe he waits till christmas again so they can sign him at 5M and have his cap hit be around 2.5M, then they trade Marchant clearing up 2.3M, now add in the extra 600K from the Schnedier trade and they are left with 300K in cap space and now have Selanne
I think they put in new rules to stop that, or there was talk to put in rules.

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08-28-2008, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
I was thinking they might want just picks, but hey its not their choice seeinghow they need a favour and the Nucks are doing it for them here.

Perfect example would be last season when the same Ducks had to dump salary to sign Selanne (might have been Nieds), they traded McDonald for Doug Weight which dump around 1.5M for them in cap space.
I think the Ducks just want a pick and/or a non-roster prospect. They have too many 4th liners as is. They have enough defensemen (excluding Schneider, 6 other NHL guys and 2 AHL guys who probably should be in the NHL). And they need to maximize salary space.

You're a little mixed up on the Weight trade. McDonald and Weight made the same amount last season. Actually, Weight made like 170k more. But he did free up tagging space (cap space for the next season), which was the issue with Niedermayer.

But they didn't "have to accept Weight" as in St. Louis wouldn't take McDonald otherwise. They had to accept Weight because he was the centerpiece of the deal for them. The Ducks needed an expiring contract, and they needed to replace whatever they sent away as they were in compete now mode and there weren't capable replacements (for last season) waiting in the minors. Moving McDonald meant the Ducks needed a 2nd line center. They arguably needed a 2nd line center WITH McDonald, he wasn't meshing with who we had. It turned out Weight sucked, but he was the Duck's choice.

If Anaheim doesn't want salary back, you can't force them to take it just because "they need a favor." Rumor out of Anaheim is that several other teams are interested in him, so the Ducks could just try to get what they want from them. I think they'd accept less value just to make sure the type of return fits better (sort of like how they made a poor trade value wise with Weight, but it fit the parameters of moving 1 guy and getting a replacement on an expiring contract).

BTW, Selanne has stated that he'll play from training camp or not at all. So unless he lied or he changes his mind, he won't wait until December.

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08-28-2008, 10:20 AM
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it's not gonna take much to pry schneider from the ducks especially if selanne is returning.

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08-28-2008, 10:33 AM
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I would say Heshka and a 4th should do it.

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08-28-2008, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ItsAllPartOfThePlan View Post
I would say Heshka and a 4th should do it.
I'd feel like getting rid of some salary back too.....as much as Ana don't want it....but just a bit ok?
lol

Cowan, Heshka, 4th for Schnieder, 5th

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08-28-2008, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMacdonald View Post
Well the Canucks aren't going to do them any large favors. Anaheim needs to get rid of him to reach a level that would allow injury replacements and get closer to a number the organization can be comfortable with. And Burke is probably talking with the owner even though he isn't supposed to, and I think the NHL won't care.

I just don't see any way Selanne can be afforded anyway. Way too many 6+ million cap guys.
If the Ducks want Selanne, then instead of trading Schnieder, what about Rob and Scott Niedermayer to the Canucks for the Canuck's 2nd round pick and Cowan. That moves $8.75 mil in cap to the Canucks with only $0.725 mil in cap coming back to the Ducks. Cowan's gung ho, fiesty play would fit well on the Ducks, the Ducks are well below the cap and have enough room to allow for injuries and sign Salanne.

Vancouver gets a true #1 defenseman plus the experienced centre/right wing they need.

Canucks lineup would be:

Daniel - Henrik - Bernier
Raymond - Wellwood - Demitra
Borrows - Kesler - R Niedermayer
Pyatt - Johnson - Pettinger
Hordichuk

S Niedermayer - Salo
Ohlund - Krajicek
Mitchell - Bieksa
Edler - Davison

Luongo
Sanford

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08-28-2008, 01:04 PM
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Count of DannyKristo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
If the Ducks want Selanne, then instead of trading Schnieder, what about Rob and Scott Niedermayer to the Canucks for the Canuck's 2nd round pick and Cowan.
Yikes.

As far as Schneider goes, I certainly think a 2nd rounder will do it, although Burke does seem to despise them. Maybe he would prefer a 3rd.

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08-28-2008, 01:06 PM
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jax00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
If the Ducks want Selanne, then instead of trading Schnieder, what about Rob and Scott Niedermayer to the Canucks for the Canuck's 2nd round pick and Cowan. That moves $8.75 mil in cap to the Canucks with only $0.725 mil in cap coming back to the Ducks. Cowan's gung ho, fiesty play would fit well on the Ducks, the Ducks are well below the cap and have enough room to allow for injuries and sign Salanne.

Vancouver gets a true #1 defenseman plus the experienced centre/right wing they need.

Canucks lineup would be:

Daniel - Henrik - Bernier
Raymond - Wellwood - Demitra
Borrows - Kesler - R Niedermayer
Pyatt - Johnson - Pettinger
Hordichuk

S Niedermayer - Salo
Ohlund - Krajicek
Mitchell - Bieksa
Edler - Davison

Luongo
Sanford
Okay, so the Ducks trade the best defenseman on their team and one of the main players on the shutdown line for Jeff Cowan? That's like saying Pittsburgh is in cap trouble, and we'll give them Brian Sutherby for Sidney Crosby so they can clear space.

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08-28-2008, 01:08 PM
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People are amazing at proposals.

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08-28-2008, 01:12 PM
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Laoghaire
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I think all it would take is cap room to get Schneider.

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08-28-2008, 01:15 PM
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Niedermayer for Jeff Cowan......hmmm......

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08-28-2008, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steadfast View Post
Yikes.

As far as Schneider goes, I certainly think a 2nd rounder will do it, although Burke does seem to despise them. Maybe he would prefer a 3rd.
A second round pick this season will be like a mid round 1st in most drafts. For Schnieder I think you are talking no more than a 3rd. Don't forget the Ducks acquired Schnieder because they didn't believe Scott would return so he is still considered a key player that the Ducks would like to keep if they can. All three, Schnieder & both Niedermayers are UFA's at the end of this season & Scott has indicated he wants to retire so his trade value is only for this season's play. I could see the second being a conditional 1st if he resigned with the Canucks prior to the draft or another 2nd round pick if he signed after the draft. The Ducks would then go with Pronger & Schnieder as their top pairing.

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08-28-2008, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Static View Post
Niedermayer for Jeff Cowan......hmmm......
It probably is the WORST proposal I have EVER read on these boards. No jokes.

PS: Cowan has zero trade value, otherwise he'd already have been dealt.

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08-28-2008, 01:24 PM
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Hi-wayman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Static View Post
Niedermayer for Jeff Cowan......hmmm......
From the Canucks side, in order to make the trade work they have to lose about $700.000 in salary. Cowan will not make the Canucks so is a logical salary dump to the Canucks and yet Cowan could just fit with the Ducks 4th line.

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08-28-2008, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
If the Ducks want Selanne, then instead of trading Schnieder, what about Rob and Scott Niedermayer to the Canucks for the Canuck's 2nd round pick and Cowan. That moves $8.75 mil in cap to the Canucks with only $0.725 mil in cap coming back to the Ducks. Cowan's gung ho, fiesty play would fit well on the Ducks, the Ducks are well below the cap and have enough room to allow for injuries and sign Salanne.

Vancouver gets a true #1 defenseman plus the experienced centre/right wing they need.

Canucks lineup would be:

Daniel - Henrik - Bernier
Raymond - Wellwood - Demitra
Borrows - Kesler - R Niedermayer
Pyatt - Johnson - Pettinger
Hordichuk

S Niedermayer - Salo
Ohlund - Krajicek
Mitchell - Bieksa
Edler - Davison

Luongo
Sanford
Are you joking, or just an idiot?

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08-28-2008, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
From the Canucks side, in order to make the trade work they have to lose about $700.000 in salary. Cowan will not make the Canucks so is a logical salary dump to the Canucks and yet Cowan could just fit with the Ducks 4th line.
Just.....just stop.

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08-28-2008, 01:30 PM
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Hi-wayman
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Are you joking, or just an idiot?
No, are you just having a bad day or are you always an A..hole?

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08-28-2008, 01:36 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Static View Post
Just.....just stop.
But he's including a 2nd round DRAFT PICK. The pick is so shiny! Surely that's worth one of the best defensemen in the league along with one of the better checkers?


I think in normal circumstances Schneider's worth roughly a 2nd and a mid prospect. He's a borderline 1st/2nd pairing guy. He's a tad overpaid, but not any more so than any other UFA Dmen the past 2 summers. And he's only got 1 year on the contract, which is a good thing for people with high contracts. Because the Ducks need to move Schneider, and because the list of teams who can afford him is short, they'll get less.

My guess is Schneider will net a 3-5 pick and/or a low prospect. A 3rd would be roughly 50% off under the assumption that it takes about 2x 3rd round pick to get a 2nd.

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08-28-2008, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
No, are you just having a bad day or are you always an A..hole?
Well, man let's be serious here. Niedermayer for Cowan, have you lived under a rock your whole life?

Since when is Vancouver such a front runner in this? They already have a deep defense, but their forwards suck, why trade for another defensemen?

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08-28-2008, 02:00 PM
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Hi-wayman
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Well, man let's be serious here. Niedermayer for Cowan, have you lived under a rock your whole life?

Since when is Vancouver such a front runner in this? They already have a deep defense, but their forwards suck, why trade for another defensemen?
Personally I would be pleased if the Canucks got either Schnieder or Niedermayer, but from a Canucks point of view as well as likely many other teams, both defensemen are not much better than a rental. There is only a 1 in 10 chance that either will be in the league after this season, so there is no way I would want to see the Canucks give up much for them. The Canucks are not good enough as a team that adding either would make us Cup contenders. Sure our team would better, but not if we had to sell the farm to get them. Better to see them go to another team. This is Burke's mess anyway where he has to reduce salary somehow. Trading Schnieder probably makes more sense, but the Niedermayers, being local, would have much more attraction in Vancouver. Heck, LA likely is the team that could offer the most to the Ducks, but that has as much chance of happening as us working out a major trade with Calgary.

As a team, the Canucks need one more defenseman for depth & if possible to run the PP, but that defenseman doesn't need to be the calibre of Niedermayer. In truth, except for the local flavour of the Niedermayers, Schnieder is probably a better fit to the Canucks. As for forwards, this thread is about the Ducks dumping some salary. The forwards the Canucks would want from the Ducks are not players the Ducks would want to trade.

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