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McCabe Trade Ideas...

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Old
08-29-2008, 09:55 AM
  #51
Jimmi Jenkins
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Seriously, JUST Van Ryn back is a VERY GOOD return for McCabe.

Don't get greedy or ridiculous.

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08-29-2008, 10:00 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
I'd love to see Vermette in Blue in White. One for one straight up. Would that be feasible?
Depends, do you have any date-**** drugs for Murray?


If he was going to trade Vermette for a defenseman, I think personally, he'd go for someone who's more on par value-wise like Bieska who is younger and signed cheaper. I'm not saying ti's completely infeasible, but Ottawa would be opening a significant hole in it's roster. If it were done and Ottawa was downgrading offense to bolster it's defense, they'd need another top-6 comign back to help with the scoring burden


what about Vermette + Schubert + Pick for Mccabe + Antropov/Steen?


I think that's more realistic

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08-29-2008, 10:01 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Seriously, JUST Van Ryn back is a VERY GOOD return for McCabe.

Don't get greedy or ridiculous.
An injury prone Van Ryn...I don't think so. But you can think whatever you like. No rule against that.

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08-29-2008, 10:02 AM
  #54
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No, that is fiction. Even Fletcher said, numerous times, that a buyout is not an option with McCabe because it makes no sense at all.

How is that fair value? Two guys coming off major injuries with question marks around them for a top pairing defenseman?

Why would the leafs want zednik, how does that help us?
Toronto has been trying to unload McCabe's contract for two years to clear Cap space. That big contract hurts his trade value as does his NTC in which he said he would waive to go to a handful of teams. It might have just been Speculation. But speculation goes a long way especially here on the boards. I mean alot of people say Jaybo hates Florida and won't resign with us even though he has never been quoted as saying any of those things. I think the Canadian media is to blame for most speculation without concrete evidence to back it up. Van Ryn looks to be 100% after finally getting the right surgery done. He will be a top 4 Dman for Toronto if that is the case not a 6th or 7th dman. McCabe for us will be on the second pairing(Bouw and Allen/Ballard on the 1st) so essentially the trade is a 2nd line Dman for a 2nd line Dman. I know McCabe is much better offensively than Van Ryn but not enough IMO to warrant Zednik + something else. I think McCabe for Van Ryn & Zednik is doable but no way is it doable if we have to add more to that.

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08-29-2008, 10:14 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
An injury prone Van Ryn...I don't think so. But you can think whatever you like. No rule against that.
No problem, but McCabe if heavily overpaid and defense mistake prone, so it works out.

There's no doubt he has some value, he's good offensively, but the rest of his game and the things about him don't make him very attractive.

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08-29-2008, 10:43 AM
  #56
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I would just like to pause and control myself from slapping everyone who keeps saying that McCabe is nothing but a 5th/6th pairing defencemen, and also those who are saying that his value is nothing. Toronto does not necessarily have to trade them. I'm pretty sure that Fletcher is not going to trade McCabe if it ultimately hurts the team. Taking back crappy players with contracts similar to his with lower point output is not a good trade. People need to stop talking crap and try to make realistic proposals. McCabe is a top 4 defenceman on any team that he plays for, and that will not change during one off season.

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08-29-2008, 10:45 AM
  #57
DougGilmour93
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No problem, but McCabe if heavily overpaid and defense mistake prone, so it works out.

There's no doubt he has some value, he's good offensively, but the rest of his game and the things about him don't make him very attractive.
For sure he does make his fair share of blunders. I'll just mention tho, that everone likes to point out that he has a large contract, but when you really think about it, does he anymore? With the way salaries have inflated over the last couple of years I think his contract is fine now.

When he is on his game (and he's only had one bad year in the last 4, I believe) he can really rack up the points and he is great on the PP. He could be a huge asset for another team. Unfortunately our Leaf team is going no where fast and we have no need for him. He might as well use his talents elsewhere.

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08-29-2008, 10:54 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
For sure he does make his fair share of blunders. I'll just mention tho, that everone likes to point out that he has a large contract, but when you really think about it, does he anymore? With the way salaries have inflated over the last couple of years I think his contract is fine now.
You're paying a guy $5.75M strickly for offense, which he didn't provide a ton of last year, who happens to play defense, oh yeah and the NMC.

He doesn't just make his share of blunders, he has next to no defensive awareness, he seems like he doesn't actually know how to play the defensive part of his game.

This is a salary dump for Toronto, so, again, JUST Van Ryn would be great return. You get an NHL player, a top-4 defenseman with some offensive ability, despite his injuries, for a the best RW playing defense in the NHL, good deal for the Leafs.

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08-29-2008, 11:08 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
You're paying a guy $5.75M strickly for offense, which he didn't provide a ton of last year, who happens to play defense, oh yeah and the NMC.

He doesn't just make his share of blunders, he has next to no defensive awareness, he seems like he doesn't actually know how to play the defensive part of his game.
This is a salary dump for Toronto, so, again, JUST Van Ryn would be great return. You get an NHL player, a top-4 defenseman with some offensive ability, despite his injuries, for a the best RW playing defense in the NHL, good deal for the Leafs.
Honestly, this is total crap. McCabe is above average defensively. He has, I will admit, made his mistakes in some very inopertune moments (most OT blunders). But to say he doesn't understand defense is just moronic. This is a man, 2 years removed from being selected to the OLYMPICS for Team Canada. They don't bring people to the Olympic team who don't understand their position.

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08-29-2008, 11:11 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
You're paying a guy $5.75M strickly for offense, which he didn't provide a ton of last year, who happens to play defense, oh yeah and the NMC.

He doesn't just make his share of blunders, he has next to no defensive awareness, he seems like he doesn't actually know how to play the defensive part of his game.

This is a salary dump for Toronto, so, again, JUST Van Ryn would be great return. You get an NHL player, a top-4 defenseman with some offensive ability, despite his injuries, for a the best RW playing defense in the NHL, good deal for the Leafs.
I agree it is a good deal for both teams especially since Van Ryn is 100%. There are a lot of Panther fans that don't want to trade Van Ryn now that he is 100% healthy. Trust me when I say he is top 4 Dman. I don't mind if we give up something more for McCabe but would hope it's only a lower end prospect(Stewart/Mayer) or a depth forward(Dvorak/Peltonen). I would include Zednik to make the deal happen though if that is what it would take but would prefer not to. I think McCabe just needs a change of scenery and he will improve some of his defense but it doesn't matter because he would be coming here for offense more then defense.

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08-29-2008, 11:35 AM
  #61
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Toronto has been trying to unload McCabe's contract for two years to clear Cap space. That big contract hurts his trade value as does his NTC in which he said he would waive to go to a handful of teams. It might have just been Speculation. But speculation goes a long way especially here on the boards. I mean alot of people say Jaybo hates Florida and won't resign with us even though he has never been quoted as saying any of those things. I think the Canadian media is to blame for most speculation without concrete evidence to back it up. Van Ryn looks to be 100% after finally getting the right surgery done. He will be a top 4 Dman for Toronto if that is the case not a 6th or 7th dman. McCabe for us will be on the second pairing(Bouw and Allen/Ballard on the 1st) so essentially the trade is a 2nd line Dman for a 2nd line Dman. I know McCabe is much better offensively than Van Ryn but not enough IMO to warrant Zednik + something else. I think McCabe for Van Ryn & Zednik is doable but no way is it doable if we have to add more to that.
Salary is not the reason we want to trade McCabe. That may have been the case before, but a couple summers and new defenseman contracts make McCabe's contract fair value. The views of the Toronto media do not always resemble that of the Toronto Maple Leafs. In fact, the media has a history of trying to run players out of town.

If you want to use McCabe on your second pairing, go ahead. He is still a top pairing defenseman. He is paid as such, and he has always been given top pairing minutes. He missed some time last year due to injury, but has had 3 consecutive 50+ point seasons, and being used as a 2nd pairing D (because they put Kubina with Kaberle last year) his production went down.

The reason we are looking to move him is simple. We currently have 3 top pairing defenders. Only 2 can get top pairing minutes. It doesnt make sense to have three. That and the fact that Fletcher wants to change the mold of the team is the reason he might be moved. If we had a good enough offer for Kubina, it would have been him that was moved for the exact same reasons.

And I wasnt asking you to add to Van Ryn + Zednik. I was just trying to say that Toronto has no use for Zednik. We have enough players like him, and as a rebuilding team we prefer young players, prospects or picks...

If it is Van Ryn for McCabe straight up, FLA is getting a VERY good deal. If I was GM, i would expect more, and not in the likes of Zednik. Look at what Dan Boyle brought in for TB. He is about the same age, produced the same, also had a NTC, and his salary and cap hit is higher than McCabe's. That deal brought in Carle, 1st, and 2nd from SJ.

I think a fair deal for a McCabe - Van Ryn deal would be

McCabe for Van Ryn, and FLA's 2nd AT LEAST. Toronto doesnt have a second rounder for the next draft, so I can see Fletcher trying to acquire one.

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08-29-2008, 11:55 AM
  #62
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You're paying a guy $5.75M strickly for offense, which he didn't provide a ton of last year, who happens to play defense, oh yeah and the NMC.

He doesn't just make his share of blunders, he has next to no defensive awareness, he seems like he doesn't actually know how to play the defensive part of his game.

This is a salary dump for Toronto, so, again, JUST Van Ryn would be great return. You get an NHL player, a top-4 defenseman with some offensive ability, despite his injuries, for a the best RW playing defense in the NHL, good deal for the Leafs.
Well, that's fine, you are entitled to your own opinion. I for one watched every game last year and I know McCabe can play defense very well and he is one of the best hitters in the game if you ask me. His mental errors are just blown out of proprtion as he plays for one of the biggest hockey markets in the world. Everyone is under the microscope in Toronto.

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08-29-2008, 12:36 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
I'd love to see Vermette in Blue in White. One for one straight up. Would that be feasible?

Isn't it finally time to try a little reality?

What about the last few weeks would lead you to believe that McCabe's market value is even in that universe?

Its a done deal. McCabe is going to Florida and Leafs are basically get nothing of value in return. Its pure salary dump for a player whose contract and poor season have reduced his trade value to dust. I have always agreed with you that McCabe is a lot better than he is made out to be on this board, but that doesn't change that fact that he has no trade value at all right now.

Expecting a player like Vermette in return is every bit a laughably ridiculous as all those Okposo/Comeau/1st round pick deals you used to propose.

I really can't believe you are still offering up deals like this.

You'll probably still be posting deals like this months after McCabe is in a Florida uniform.

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08-29-2008, 12:49 PM
  #64
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Isn't it finally time to try a little reality?

What about the last few weeks would lead you to believe that McCabe's market value is even in that universe?

Its a done deal. McCabe is going to Florida and Leafs are basically get nothing of value in return. Its pure salary dump for a player whose contract and poor season have reduced his trade value to dust. I have always agreed with you that McCabe is a lot better than he is made out to be on this board, but that doesn't change that fact that he has no trade value at all right now.

Expecting a player like Vermette in return is every bit a laughably ridiculous as all those Okposo/Comeau/1st round pick deals you used to propose.

I really can't believe you are still offering up deals like this.

You'll probably still be posting deals like this months after McCabe is in a Florida uniform.

I'll start by saying I did not once (that I can recall) expect a Okposo in a return for McCabe. I do recall however, I did bring up players names like Comeau, Witt and some of the propsals included either a 1st or a 2nd. But never Okposo. I do believe sir you are mistaken in that regard.

As for Vermette, he isn't all that special. He's a third liner with 2nd line capabilities. Getting a potential 1st pairing dman that can put up 50-60 pts is easily worth a player of Vermettes calibre. But like we discussed, McCabes name has been dragged through the mud and now has somewhat of a negative value in terms of what he truly should be worth.

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08-29-2008, 01:03 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
I'll start by saying I did not once (that I can recall) expect a Okposo in a return for McCabe. I do recall however, I did bring up players names like Comeau, Witt and some of the propsals included either a 1st or a 2nd. But never Okposo. I do believe sir you are mistaken in that regard.

As for Vermette, he isn't all that special. He's a third liner with 2nd line capabilities. Getting a potential 1st pairing dman that can put up 50-60 pts is easily worth a player of Vermettes calibre. But like we discussed, McCabes name has been dragged through the mud and now has somewhat of a negative value in terms of what he truly should be worth.


As an Islander fan, I don't believe that we could begin to get Vermette for Comeau or Witt. So, I'll stick by my impression that you are being every bit as unrealistic as before.

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08-29-2008, 01:44 PM
  #66
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As an Islander fan, I don't believe that we could begin to get Vermette for Comeau or Witt. So, I'll stick by my impression that you are being every bit as unrealistic as before.
That's fine.

I wasn't saying I expected Vermette for McCabe at this stage, I was mearly feeling out the Ottawa fan and seeing where he thought the trade would lie. Do I think, if McCabe was rid of all this scrutiny form the media that he could bring in Vermette, yes, for sure, probably Vermette +. But at this stage of the game, he clearly doesn't.

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08-29-2008, 01:54 PM
  #67
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understand that its exciting to think of trades but they got to be remotely fair. not sure what pairing Mccabe plays with on the leafs but hes a 5th/6th on most teams. As selfish and unreliable as Afino is he is still worth way more then mccabe alone. Think the leafs are gonna have to suck it up if they just want to dump his salary.
Understand that you have no hockey sense. You don't know his pairing but you critic him this way. He's played with Kaberle for 4 or 5 years. Aside from times when they mixed up the lines that's been the set for a long time. If you don't have that basic knowledge about the leafs maybe your the wrong guy to critic these proposals. McCabe is far from a 5th 6th dman on any team. He's a top pairing on most teams.

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08-29-2008, 02:05 PM
  #68
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From a Toronto Perspective, I would love to see Upshall acquired. I think he is an underrated player.

24 years old, 14 goals and 30 points in 61 games, while seeing limited PP time and while also only averaging 13 mins per night. The kid has potential.

To Philadelphia - Bryan McCabe

To Toronto - Scottie Upshall

Heck I would do a 1 for 1 deal (If Holmgren could manage it), its better than the proposed Van Ryn trade.

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08-29-2008, 02:08 PM
  #69
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Wow, really going out on a limb there. Forget Repik and Dadonov and possibly even McArdle, but Stewart and Zednik are likely candidates.
stewart isn't goin to make the nhl and if he does it will be as a fighter.

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08-29-2008, 02:11 PM
  #70
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would you guys do van ryn + frolik?
or zednik + frolik? for mccabe.

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08-29-2008, 02:13 PM
  #71
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would you guys do van ryn + frolik?
or zednik + frolik? for mccabe.
not happening LOL he's one of their top prospects.

would you trade tlusty + van ryn for mccabe?

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08-29-2008, 02:15 PM
  #72
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From a Toronto Perspective, I would love to see Upshall acquired. I think he is an underrated player.

24 years old, 14 goals and 30 points in 61 games, while seeing limited PP time and while also only averaging 13 mins per night. The kid has potential.

To Philadelphia - Bryan McCabe

To Toronto - Scottie Upshall

Heck I would do a 1 for 1 deal (If Holmgren could manage it), its better than the proposed Van Ryn trade.
Upshall + a 2nd should get her done. Im all for it. Win win for both teams.

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08-29-2008, 02:27 PM
  #73
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Upshall + a 2nd should get her done. Im all for it. Win win for both teams.

Sadly, you are not getting Upshall OR a 2nd rounder. What you're getting is Van Ryn and Zednik - two playes with an approximate trade value of zero.

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08-29-2008, 02:27 PM
  #74
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not happening LOL he's one of their top prospects.

would you trade tlusty + van ryn for mccabe?
uhm i dont even think frolik is signed yet, usually teams top prospects are signed right after there drafted?

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08-29-2008, 02:58 PM
  #75
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Upshall + a 2nd should get her done. Im all for it. Win win for both teams.
To Nashville - Forsberg (injured)

To Philadelphia - Upshall (6th overall 2002), Hartnell (6th overall 2000), Parent (18th overall 2007), Timonen, 2007 3rd round pick.

To Atlanta - Alexei Zhitnik (Departed to Russia)

To Philadelphia - Brayden Coburn (8th overall in 2003)

2007 2nd overall pick - Van Riemsdyk

Not to beat a , but this is just ridiculous.

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