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#33 to be retired in November 2008?

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Old
08-29-2008, 04:11 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
It's ****ing hockey. Nelson Mandela and Ghandi ain't up in the rafters. It's Jean Beliveau and Jacques Plante. Hockey players. Cut the crap.

What about everything he did with the Ronald McDonalds Children's Charity? He probably did more with that organization than any player ever has with any other charity organization. Nah, who cares about that, he wasn't a "Class Act".

Give me a break.
Amen!

I hate how all these do-gooders act like they are perfect human beings, this is Saint Patrick we are talking about! Who cares if you don't like him personally? He is probably the best goalie to ever play the game and was the mvp of our only 2 cup wins in the last almost 30 years! He has done more for charity then all you "perfect people" put together on here.

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08-29-2008, 04:17 PM
  #52
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I just read about this on sportsnet its about time!

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08-29-2008, 04:19 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by MetalheadSen View Post
If Roy's number doesn't get retired, it's an epic failure by the Canadiens organization. There's no reason why it should not be retired.
Exactly my thoughts

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08-29-2008, 04:20 PM
  #54
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I'm happy they will do it this year, perfect fit before he join another NHL team as a head coach.

Edit :

It's kinda weird the news is out but the Habs won't comment on it and Roy says he didn't know about it...

Looking at the Remparts schedule the game that makes the most sense is :

Mon Nov 24, 2008
Islanders Canadiens 7:30 PM ET


Last edited by Team_Spirit: 08-29-2008 at 04:33 PM.
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08-29-2008, 06:32 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggsy View Post
Exactly my thoughts


To have your number retired, you can't just have great talent, u have to have class. Roy doesn't have that, so he doesn't deserve to have his number retired by one of the classiest organizations in sports. And his off ice antics do matter. I don't want a stain on the name of such a great organisation.

Yes he got us 2 cups, but he was a jackass and still is, so **** him. It's not like he's changed. Nobody including him, is bigger than the organization.

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08-29-2008, 08:33 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by nikrag03 View Post
To have your number retired, you can't just have great talent, u have to have class. Roy doesn't have that, so he doesn't deserve to have his number retired by one of the classiest organizations in sports. And his off ice antics do matter. I don't want a stain on the name of such a great organisation.

Yes he got us 2 cups, but he was a jackass and still is, so **** him. It's not like he's changed. Nobody including him, is bigger than the organization.
So then I guess we should take down Lafleur's number from the rafters because he has said some "unclassy" things lately?

Roy did enough for the Hab's on the ice that it overshadows some of the things he has done and said in the last few years, without Patrick Roy the Habs wouldn't be on the "Drive for 25" as they wouldn't have won the last 2 cups. Simply put he's not only one of the best goalies in the history of the Habs, but in the history of the NHL.

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08-29-2008, 09:45 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by nikrag03 View Post
To have your number retired, you can't just have great talent, u have to have class. Roy doesn't have that, so he doesn't deserve to have his number retired by one of the classiest organizations in sports. And his off ice antics do matter. I don't want a stain on the name of such a great organisation.

Yes he got us 2 cups, but he was a jackass and still is, so **** him. It's not like he's changed. Nobody including him, is bigger than the organization.
Roy was the face of the habs organization for the many years he was there. Every young goalie in Quebec looked up to Roy and modeled their game around him. Look at most Quebec born goalies in the league, most of them (although there are modifications) have built their style around Roys. Not to mention he won cups here and was/is the best goalie of all time, especially during his time here. He 100% deserves this. Small incidents off ice should have no bearing on what he accomplished during his time as a hab.

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08-29-2008, 10:27 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Haddock View Post
Ron Fournier's antics and bs aside, Butch Bouchard's number should go up this season before the old man leaves us for good. He'd be a no brainer for most organiztion. Do it already.
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
I'd like to know how elite a player he was considered as ? I know my Dad thinks the world of him, tells stories about him, but they're more about the guy than the player.
Butch Bouchard was selected to three 1st All-Star Teams and one 2nd All-Star Team during his Hockey Hall of Fame career.



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Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
2nd d of his time behind Eddie Shore is what I hear.
Eddie Shore played in the NHL from 1926-27 through 1939-40. Butch Bouchard entered the NHL during the 1941-42 season.

Only fellow Hall of Famer Earl Seibert had more All-Star Team selections (3 Firsts and 2 Seconds) during the 1940's as a defenseman than Butch Bouchard.

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Old
08-29-2008, 10:33 PM
  #59
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That's one way to look at it. When I look at the numbers in the rafters though, with maybe the exception of Guy Lafleur, what I see is more than hockey players. I see guys who are an inspiration on and off the ice. I see a lot of class acts, good ambassadors for the team, people for whom the logo on the front was more important than the number on the back. I don't quite have that feeling when I think of Roy... and that coming from one of his biggest fan here.

Afterall, provoked or not provoked, he did leave the team and its fans in a knee jerking decision. He didn't think of the Habs. He didn't think of his fans. He thought about Patrick Roy and nothing else when he asked for a trade behind the bench. Don't get me wrong, I'm not clearing Mario of all blame here, but the blame is shared.
He made it clear that he didnt really want to leave. That if the had talked to him the following days things would have been worked out. He didnt expect them to just get rid of him without first trying to work things out. It's not his fault that durring his last days as a hab we had the worst duo ever at the head of the team. If you're a winner and take things at heart you'll definetly become frustrated during such a period.

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08-30-2008, 03:19 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Johnny Drama View Post
So then I guess we should take down Lafleur's number from the rafters because he has said some "unclassy" things lately?

Roy did enough for the Hab's on the ice that it overshadows some of the things he has done and said in the last few years, without Patrick Roy the Habs wouldn't be on the "Drive for 25" as they wouldn't have won the last 2 cups. Simply put he's not only one of the best goalies in the history of the Habs, but in the history of the NHL.
He walked out on the team, period. He said, "I'm never playing for this team again." That's not only saying **** you to the coach who was definitely wrong not to pull him earlier, but it's saying **** you to all his fans and fans of the Canadiens. he could have worked it out, but chose right away to say" 'i'm never playing for the canadiens again." Didn't even want to think about all the fans he would disappoint by not even attempting to work it out.

Patrick Roy, great player, horrible Hab. I think it takes more than just being a great player to have your number retired.

I don't want a loose cannon having his number retired by the Habs. He doesn't deserve it. He's still a *******, and that's another reason it shouldn't be done. It's funny how people refer to his behaviour as "little incidents".

That's not what they were. I guess if you have a great career, then you're entitled to be as much of a degenerate as u want. At least according to some posters here.

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08-30-2008, 03:21 AM
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
He made it clear that he didnt really want to leave. That if the had talked to him the following days things would have been worked out. He didnt expect them to just get rid of him without first trying to work things out. It's not his fault that durring his last days as a hab we had the worst duo ever at the head of the team. If you're a winner and take things at heart you'll definetly become frustrated during such a period.
He made it clear that he didn't want to leave by stating in front of the whole forum that he would never play for the team again? Interesting.

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08-30-2008, 03:24 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by TheCH View Post
Amen!

I hate how all these do-gooders act like they are perfect human beings, this is Saint Patrick we are talking about! Who cares if you don't like him personally? He is probably the best goalie to ever play the game and was the mvp of our only 2 cup wins in the last almost 30 years! He has done more for charity then all you "perfect people" put together on here.
If i had millions of dollars to wipe my ass with it wouldn't be so hard to donate some of it to charity. Give me a break.

A millionaire who donates to charity while beating his wife at the same time doesn't deserve my respect.

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08-30-2008, 08:56 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by nikrag03 View Post
He made it clear that he didn't want to leave by stating in front of the whole forum that he would never play for the team again? Interesting.
In the following days.... and in later interviews.
Jesus... You want a little drawing?
We all say stupid things when we are pissed.

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08-30-2008, 09:25 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by nikrag03 View Post
He walked out on the team, period. He said, "I'm never playing for this team again." That's not only saying **** you to the coach who was definitely wrong not to pull him earlier, but it's saying **** you to all his fans and fans of the Canadiens. he could have worked it out, but chose right away to say" 'i'm never playing for the canadiens again." Didn't even want to think about all the fans he would disappoint by not even attempting to work it out.

Patrick Roy, great player, horrible Hab. I think it takes more than just being a great player to have your number retired.

I don't want a loose cannon having his number retired by the Habs. He doesn't deserve it. He's still a *******, and that's another reason it shouldn't be done. It's funny how people refer to his behaviour as "little incidents".

That's not what they were. I guess if you have a great career, then you're entitled to be as much of a degenerate as u want. At least according to some posters here.
The guy was a ****ing competitor, he left everything on the ice. By embarassing him and letting him stay in for 9 goals is the only unclassy thing about that whole situation. Do you think New Jersey would keep Brodeur in and allow him to let in 9 goals? Nope. Do you think Vancouver would let Luongo stay in after getting blown out and let him allow in 9 goals? Definitely not. Coaching/Management was a joke back then and i'm sure if we had a guy like Gainey running the team back then Roy would've finished his career a Hab, I simply don't blame him for wanting to be traded after getting slapped in the face like that.

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08-30-2008, 12:00 PM
  #65
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He deserves it.

But I still hate the guy.
He DOESN'T deserve it. Not now at any rate. With guys like Big Bird, Savard and Gainey waiting all this time to get their rightful place up in the rafters Roy could wait about a decade.

I don't understand what the rush is to retire his jersey. He certainly doesn't deserve the honor of the final jersey retirement of this century. In a cenntennial year full of events he should not be part of any festivities.

Some say he was amazing for us for a decade but with his actions he forced managment to trade him for a pittance and we blew for the next decade. Managment was certainly inept and to blame as well but it took two to dance and Roy was always bigger than the Habs in his mind. His actions speak for themselves.

To the guy that said "it's only hockey not Mandela but Beliveau and Plante up there". You couldn't be more right, those guys aren't up there because they were humanitarians they are up there because they were great Habs. Roy wasn't a great Hab just a good goalie.

Anyway there is no middle ground here and this debate will always come up. You are either for it or against and i don't see anybody changing their minds anytime soon.

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08-30-2008, 12:28 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by RushDP View Post
Some say he was amazing for us for a decade but with his actions he forced managment to trade him for a pittance and we blew for the next decade. Managment was certainly inept and to blame as well but it took two to dance and Roy was always bigger than the Habs in his mind. His actions speak for themselves.
Roy was treated like a piece of **** and fired back.

Management did nothing to cool the situation down.

Management did not let time pass.

Management did not put Roy on the market to see the best possible thing to get back.

Don't forget that back then, Mario Tremblay was doing everything he could in the media to make everyone believe that Roy was washed up. I remember believing it as a kid.

I bet you, if Houle and Corey said, "Look, I'm sorry Pat, we're firing Tremblay, this was the wrong way to do things and he let his personal feelings get the best of him", Roy would have stuck around.

This was 100% management. Not Roy. Roy would have retired a Montreal Canadien had it not been for Tremblay, Houle and Corey.

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To the guy that said "it's only hockey not Mandela but Beliveau and Plante up there". You couldn't be more right, those guys aren't up there because they were humanitarians they are up there because they were great Habs. Roy wasn't a great Hab just a good goalie.
That would be me I don't exactly see your point. I think Roy was a great Hab. He wore team colours with pride. He won two Stanley Cups in those colours. I respect Roy more for taking respectable money as a goalie and not running up the salary like Mario Lemieux did in Pittsburgh. Of course, Lemieux basically bankrupting the old ownership then buying into the team still makes him a legend, even to Quebecors. Roy standing up for himself makes him the scapegoat for the Molson Era.

Absolutely assinine.

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08-30-2008, 02:10 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Roy was treated like a piece of **** and fired back.

Management did nothing to cool the situation down.

Management did not let time pass.

Management did not put Roy on the market to see the best possible thing to get back.

Don't forget that back then, Mario Tremblay was doing everything he could in the media to make everyone believe that Roy was washed up. I remember believing it as a kid.

I bet you, if Houle and Corey said, "Look, I'm sorry Pat, we're firing Tremblay, this was the wrong way to do things and he let his personal feelings get the best of him", Roy would have stuck around.

This was 100% management. Not Roy. Roy would have retired a Montreal Canadien had it not been for Tremblay, Houle and Corey.



That would be me I don't exactly see your point. I think Roy was a great Hab. He wore team colours with pride. He won two Stanley Cups in those colours. I respect Roy more for taking respectable money as a goalie and not running up the salary like Mario Lemieux did in Pittsburgh. Of course, Lemieux basically bankrupting the old ownership then buying into the team still makes him a legend, even to Quebecors. Roy standing up for himself makes him the scapegoat for the Molson Era.

Absolutely assinine.
I did say that the blame was shared and that managment was wrong for what they did. However, you placing the blame 100% on the Habs and absolving Roy of any responsibility completely renders your argument useless.

How can you make the claim that they should have waited for a better offer when Roy ruined his trade value by making it obvious he wasn't coming back? Any team could smell the blood in the water and take advantage of the situation and if there was a better offer I didn't hear about it.

You seriously believe that any organization would suck up to a player and fire the coach after you made it impossible for them to do anything but move you? You want the Habs management to allow players to publicly humiliate them and then beg for them to stay? That's a little too much even for the staunchist Roy supporter to assume. To make the claim that Roy would have retired a Hab is not possible. You can not know that he would not have asked to be traded if the team was uncompetitive. If he's the winner people are making him out to be why would he have stayed here with the teams we fielded during the late 90's?

Roy achieved alot as a Hab no doubt but his final actions are part of his overall time here. You make it seem as though he was a great Hab and on the day he screwed the franchise over it doesn't count. You have to weigh his contribution to the team and what his entire career here meant up to and including his actions in compromising his trade value by forcing a trade and handcuffing the franchise for the following decade. This of course greatly helped by the fact that managment was headed by completely incompetent bozos.

Lemieux earned his money and did not bankrupt the franchise. The market did that in Pittsburgh. You make it sound as though he didn't have any other high priced players with him and single handedly drove the team into bankrupcy on purpose. He assumed ownership because he was still owed money and that is entirely proper. He is a legend because he was an amazing talent whose health stopped him from making a run at many records that today would likely still stand. But that's another debate.

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08-30-2008, 02:30 PM
  #68
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The people saying Roy shouldn't go up in the rafters are probably the same fools who think Koivu deserves to go up...cuz he's been so good to the organization. Roy could be the biggest dickwad ever and he'd still deserve to be up there. He was a true competitor and easily top 5 every year he played. One of the few (and the last) franchise players we've ever had.

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08-30-2008, 02:41 PM
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The people saying Roy shouldn't go up in the rafters are probably the same fools who think Koivu deserves to go up...cuz he's been so good to the organization. Roy could be the biggest dickwad ever and he'd still deserve to be up there. He was a true competitor and easily top 5 every year he played. One of the few (and the last) franchise players we've ever had.
If they came tro me for the final decision, and I'm pretty sure they won't, I'd retire the # as he ranks with the other 2 great golaies have been honored. Whether he ranks higher can be debated, but he does rank with them.

The way he left, how he comports himself, well it would matter if it was more extreme. He left in a controversial manner, sure, lots of blame to go around, but he isn't the first guy to make waves on the way out. He differs from previous generations of players because he had more power. There was little a guy in the 50's could do if he went to war with a team.

Since, well he's made some comments, nothing dramatic, acted like a jerk while running the Remparts, but frankly, he'd done things that people in the CHL do. Yeah, he's crossed lines of conduct but all that does is color Roy as a self important jerk, which he has every right to be.

As to top 5 every year, well keep in mind that he wasn't even Mtl's clear cut #1 after the 86 win. He had ups and downs and competed with Brian Hayward at times. People tend to forget that Hayward started playoff games for the CH while Patrick sat. Still, when you list the all time great goalies, whether it be Sawchuck,Hasek,Plante, Hall, Roy's in the mix.

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08-30-2008, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Roy was treated like a piece of **** and fired back.

Management did nothing to cool the situation down.

Management did not let time pass.

Management did not put Roy on the market to see the best possible thing to get back.

Don't forget that back then, Mario Tremblay was doing everything he could in the media to make everyone believe that Roy was washed up. I remember believing it as a kid.
I bet you, if Houle and Corey said, "Look, I'm sorry Pat, we're firing Tremblay, this was the wrong way to do things and he let his personal feelings get the best of him", Roy would have stuck around.

This was 100% management. Not Roy. Roy would have retired a Montreal Canadien had it not been for Tremblay, Houle and Corey.



That would be me I don't exactly see your point. I think Roy was a great Hab. He wore team colours with pride. He won two Stanley Cups in those colours. I respect Roy more for taking respectable money as a goalie and not running up the salary like Mario Lemieux did in Pittsburgh. Of course, Lemieux basically bankrupting the old ownership then buying into the team still makes him a legend, even to Quebecors. Roy standing up for himself makes him the scapegoat for the Molson Era.

Absolutely assinine.

I'd like to see an example of that. I've heard you say that before but I recall no public comment about Roy's play. Tremblay came in and wanted to establish that he ran the team, and thru his inexperience, he came across heavy handed. Roy and Tremblay's egos were on a collision course and we saw the result.

You can love Roy, hate Tremblay, which is kind of funny because the 2 of them are nearly exactly the same person, but it took 2 to dance that particular tango.

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08-30-2008, 05:20 PM
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Some people tend to forget that if Savard would not have been fired, Roy would have been traded anyways. Concidering this, would you still retire his number if Savard would have traded him?

Fact his, him and Tremblay never got along and it was bound to happen that the fit would hit the shan. It's just too bad it happened during a hockey game and not in the dressing room or at a practice.

Anyone remember Donald Brashear's problem with Tremblay?

Basically Tremblay was a jerk and bad hockey coach back then (might be changed now). Houle was a tool who dismantle the organisation and Corey an idiot.

They should retire # 3, 19 and 33 this year and be done with it for a long time to come.

After all, nobody will ever wear these numbers again even if they don't get retired.

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08-30-2008, 05:25 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
The people saying Roy shouldn't go up in the rafters are probably the same fools who think Koivu deserves to go up...cuz he's been so good to the organization. Roy could be the biggest dickwad ever and he'd still deserve to be up there. He was a true competitor and easily top 5 every year he played. One of the few (and the last) franchise players we've ever had.
I'm saying Roy shouldn't go up to the rafters and I am neither a fool nor do I think Koivu should ever be there. The rafters are getting crowded and it takes more than what Roy has given to get the honor of being up ther.

That said, Koivu IS a true competitor so by your own criteria he should be considered being raised in the future. Roy Top 5? Maybe top on our team but top 5 in the league every year...I don't think so.

If Roy gets raised up there, he will by FAR be the least of the greats already up there. Most had to wait an approproate amount of time before being given the honor but if you want to rush and stumble all over yourself to give the least of the deserving the honor as fast as possible I guess you are entitled to that opinion.

Serge Savard said it best when he said that this is the truest honor available on par with entering the hall of fame or even exceeding it. He saw it as the greatest honor in hockey and did not expect to be so rewarded but hoped he would earn it one day. Roy sees it as his due. There is a fundamental difference in philsophy in those views that seperate a real Hab and an arrogant disrespectful undeserving dickwad.

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08-30-2008, 06:28 PM
  #73
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I will cry the day they retire his jersey... he was my hero when i was young

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08-30-2008, 07:27 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Kruky View Post
Some people tend to forget that if Savard would not have been fired, Roy would have been traded anyways. Concidering this, would you still retire his number if Savard would have traded him?

Fact his, him and Tremblay never got along and it was bound to happen that the fit would hit the shan. It's just too bad it happened during a hockey game and not in the dressing room or at a practice.

Anyone remember Donald Brashear's problem with Tremblay?

Basically Tremblay was a jerk and bad hockey coach back then (might be changed now). Houle was a tool who dismantle the organisation and Corey an idiot.

They should retire # 3, 19 and 33 this year and be done with it for a long time to come.


After all, nobody will ever wear these numbers again even if they don't get retired.
19 is retired, and O'Byrne is #3...

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08-30-2008, 07:29 PM
  #75
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Patrick Roy still my favorite habs of all time

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