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Rangers Assistant Coach Pelino Visits Omsk

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Old
09-01-2008, 08:37 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
i wonder if your allowed to trade between leagues. like say AHL player+ for KHL player. is that allowed or no?
LOL no way dude imagine if you could just send someone to another continent...that would be messed up...

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09-01-2008, 08:46 PM
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LOL no way dude imagine if you could just send someone to another continent...that would be messed up...
yeah i know, i was thinking it was crazy.

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09-01-2008, 08:51 PM
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thats awesome.....although it seems like sather may be starting up another farm team with its own salary cap in russia with the way everything is being shared.....lets just hope cheraponov comes over....i really want to see this kid play and prove everyone wrong
dunno man about farm team Omsk owner can buy Rangers if it needed

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09-01-2008, 09:18 PM
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I had questions at the time and reading this only makes me think there's a real chance that there's been a gentlemen's agreement between the two clubs regarding Jagr and Cherepanov. I mean is it really that hard to imagine that Glen and the Omsk GM agreed that we wouldn't put up a serious fight for Jags this past offseason if they don't try to keep Cherry next? (Heck, given the affection he's often displayed for Omsk, Jags may even have been a party to such an agreement!)

Anyhoo - regardless of whether my conspiracy theory is right, there's no question that it's a good sign that Pelino is over there.
Yes I think it is really hard to believe. I don't think Sather is dumb enough to trust ANYBODY that much to put the Rangers franchise in an embarrshing legal situation. That would be circumventing the CBA and in the midst of an ownership battle with the league it's VERY hard to believe the Rangers would have under the table dealings with an ownership group from the KHL...

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09-01-2008, 10:19 PM
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Yes I think it is really hard to believe. I don't think Sather is dumb enough to trust ANYBODY that much to put the Rangers franchise in an embarrshing legal situation. That would be circumventing the CBA and in the midst of an ownership battle with the league it's VERY hard to believe the Rangers would have under the table dealings with an ownership group from the KHL...
Aw, you just disagree with everything I post these days.

Given the things I've seen in my own business career, I don't think it's that hard to believe AT ALL.

Besides, don't you think it seems like just a BIT of a coincidence that we are a) striking up a partnership with b) the same team that nabbed the former face of our franchise and c) holds the current rights to our #1 prospect and d) this has all gone down within about a year's time...?

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09-01-2008, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Yes I think it is really hard to believe. I don't think Sather is dumb enough to trust ANYBODY that much to put the Rangers franchise in an embarrshing legal situation.
Why would it result in an embarrassing legal situation? Cherepanov's contract is up at the end of this season. Omsk will not have any legal rights to him after that -- unless he signs a new contract, in which case it would be pretty clear he's not interested in coming to the Rangers anyway. If he signs with the Rangers next summer, he does so as a free agent. Maintaining a good relationship with Omsk so that they allow him to make his own decision and don't put undue pressure on him to resign isn't circumventing the CBA.

That said, thoughts of a "Jagr for Cherepanov" trade are pure fantasy. Jagr had offers from other NHL teams, and made his own decision on where to go.

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09-01-2008, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
i wonder if your allowed to trade between leagues. like say AHL player+ for KHL player. is that allowed or no?
That would be a big no.

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09-01-2008, 10:33 PM
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Why would it result in an embarrassing legal situation? Cherepanov's contract is up at the end of this season. Omsk will not have any legal rights to him after that -- unless he signs a new contract, in which case it would be pretty clear he's not interested in coming to the Rangers anyway. If he signs with the Rangers next summer, he does so as a free agent. Maintaining a good relationship with Omsk so that they allow him to make his own decision and don't put undue pressure on him to resign isn't circumventing the CBA.

That said, thoughts of a "Jagr for Cherepanov" trade are pure fantasy. Jagr had offers from other NHL teams, and made his own decision on where to go.
SoS is referring to the fact that we would be striking up a deal for "transferring" players on our own while the league is in a death match with the KHL on that subject.

As to the "pure fantasy" - why does the fact that Jagr had offers from other teams make it fantasy? All I'm saying is that it's possible that Glen let slip that he'd be inclined to not offer serious resistance for Jagr this year if Omsk would be inclined to not offer serious resistance regarding Cherry in 2009. I'm not saying it DID happen, but it doesn't strike me as being as far fetched as you're making it out to be.

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09-01-2008, 11:01 PM
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SoS is referring to the fact that we would be striking up a deal for "transferring" players on our own while the league is in a death match with the KHL on that subject.
As I mentioned, Cherepanov will no longer be under contract with Omsk after this season, and therefore no "transfer" needs to be made. They'd be doing exactly what both leagues profess to want the other to do -- waiting until a players contract is up before signing him.

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As to the "pure fantasy" - why does the fact that Jagr had offers from other teams make it fantasy? All I'm saying is that it's possible that Glen let slip that he'd be inclined to not offer serious resistance for Jagr this year if Omsk would be inclined to not offer serious resistance regarding Cherry in 2009. I'm not saying it DID happen, but it doesn't strike me as being as far fetched as you're making it out to be.
For all his faults, I don't believe for a second that Glen Sather would make a decision on whether or not to sign one of the top players in the world this year based on how it may or may not effect his ability to sign a 20-year old kid who's proven nothing in the NHL and may or may not even be interested in playing there in the first place next year. Did Sather try to portray that that was the case to Bardin? Maybe. But the decision not to sign Jagr was made independently, and most likely at the final buzzer of the Rangers final game vs. the Devils, when it was clear that Jagr wouldn't reach his his targets to have his contract extended automatically.

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09-01-2008, 11:14 PM
  #35
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As I mentioned, Cherepanov will no longer be under contract with Omsk after this season, and therefore no "transfer" needs to be made. They'd be doing exactly what both leagues profess to want the other to do -- waiting until a players contract is up before signing him.



For all his faults, I don't believe for a second that Glen Sather would make a decision on whether or not to sign one of the top players in the world this year based on how it may or may not effect his ability to sign a 20-year old kid who's proven nothing in the NHL and may or may not even be interested in playing there in the first place next year. Did Sather try to portray that that was the case to Bardin? Maybe. But the decision not to sign Jagr was made independently, and most likely at the final buzzer of the Rangers final game vs. the Devils, when it was clear that Jagr wouldn't reach his his targets to have his contract extended automatically.
I don't know, the whole thing seems wierd. I mean why would Sather want a relationship with that club? There has to be a reason......the fact that the Rangers best foward prospect plays there and their most recent best foward makes me wonder just what the hell the relationship is exactly between these two clubs.

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09-01-2008, 11:16 PM
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That would be a big no.
It wouldn't suprise me if Slats found a loophole in the CBA/transfer agreement to somehow have somekind of prearranged player transfer. I mean this is the GM to made trade using the waiver wire as part of it. I think drafting and giving contract Slats is a moron. But his trading and creativeness I can never take away from him.......those are his strengths.

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09-01-2008, 11:27 PM
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It wouldn't suprise me if Slats found a loophole in the CBA/transfer agreement to somehow have somekind of prearranged player transfer. I mean this is the GM to made trade using the waiver wire as part of it. I think drafting and giving contract Slats is a moron. But his trading and creativeness I can never take away from him.......those are his strengths.
Dubinsky, Korpedo, Dawes, Callahan, Staal, Sanguinetti, Del Zotto, Grachev, Paul Mara, Dawes contract, Gretzky, Messier, Kurri, Coffey, Beukeboom. yeah the guy is a real idiot...

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09-02-2008, 12:59 AM
  #38
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It wouldn't suprise me if Slats found a loophole in the CBA/transfer agreement to somehow have somekind of prearranged player transfer. I mean this is the GM to made trade using the waiver wire as part of it. I think drafting and giving contract Slats is a moron. But his trading and creativeness I can never take away from him.......those are his strengths.
There is no transfer agreement--so there is no loophole. And there doesn't need to be a loophole, since--as Squshy points out--Cherepanov will not be under contract after this season. It's up to Cherepanov to decide whether he wants to play for the New York Ranger organization for the rookie maximum or not. There's no politics involved here and there are no loopholes to find regarding what a prospect like Cherepanov can earn.

Houdini couldn't find a way to change the rules of the game here.

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09-02-2008, 10:17 AM
  #39
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Why would it result in an embarrassing legal situation? Cherepanov's contract is up at the end of this season. Omsk will not have any legal rights to him after that -- unless he signs a new contract, in which case it would be pretty clear he's not interested in coming to the Rangers anyway. If he signs with the Rangers next summer, he does so as a free agent. Maintaining a good relationship with Omsk so that they allow him to make his own decision and don't put undue pressure on him to resign isn't circumventing the CBA.

That said, thoughts of a "Jagr for Cherepanov" trade are pure fantasy. Jagr had offers from other NHL teams, and made his own decision on where to go.
I meant that if the Rangers had a wink wink agreement NOT to pursue Jagr for Omsk not resigning Cherapanov....

That would be violation of the CBA....right?

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09-02-2008, 10:19 AM
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There is no transfer agreement--so there is no loophole. And there doesn't need to be a loophole, since--as Squshy points out--Cherepanov will not be under contract after this season. It's up to Cherepanov to decide whether he wants to play for the New York Ranger organization for the rookie maximum or not. There's no politics involved here and there are no loopholes to find regarding what a prospect like Cherepanov can earn.

Houdini couldn't find a way to change the rules of the game here.
What about the Russian Hockey Federation telling prospects that if they sign with an NHL team they aren't eligible for the Olympics?

There are politics involved in all aspects of this...

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09-02-2008, 11:19 AM
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I meant that if the Rangers had a wink wink agreement NOT to pursue Jagr for Omsk not resigning Cherapanov....

That would be violation of the CBA....right?
I don't see how. The Rangers control Chere's rights, so it's not like this would have any affect whatsoever on the other NHL teams. And it would have no affect on other teams attempts to sign Jagr. In fact, other teams would have had a better chance to sign Jagr since the Rangers wouldn't be giving a competitive offer.

Ultimately it comes down to two players who are (or will be) free agents, making their own decisions regarding their hockey future.

If Chere's rights were not held by the Rangers, then it would be a bit shady perhaps, but still not against the CBA I would think, because again it would come down to the decision of the players involved.

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09-02-2008, 12:35 PM
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Dubinsky, Korpedo, Dawes, Callahan, Staal, Sanguinetti, Del Zotto, Grachev, Paul Mara, Dawes contract, Gretzky, Messier, Kurri, Coffey, Beukeboom. yeah the guy is a real idiot...
You say that as if Sather himself was the guy who scouted all those players, which he wasn't. Sather is a GM, he drafts who his scouts tell him to draft. Sure, he may go take a look at someone special every now and again, but rest assured, he follows the recommendations of his scouting staff.

Furthermore, it remains to be seen how successful guys like Dubinsky, Korpikoski, Dawes, Callahan, Sanguinetti, Del Zotto, and Grachev will be.

Lastly, Paul Mara was not drafted by the Rangers.

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09-02-2008, 12:49 PM
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Dubinsky, Korpedo, Dawes, Callahan, Staal, Sanguinetti, Del Zotto, Grachev, Paul Mara, Dawes contract, Gretzky, Messier, Kurri, Coffey, Beukeboom. yeah the guy is a real idiot...
well he has done some good things of late but lets talk about some bad things well dealing johnsson, hlavac and brendl for lindros, oh ok only thing good in this deal was johnsson but heck we did not even make the playoffs, this trade did not have to be made, its not like we were at top of the standings just trying to add depth. but as far as drafting well slats did draft some bad players; Jessiman, passing up on Stoll, oh and drafting Steve Kelly 4th overall in 96 in edmonton was pretty bad. Slats also did find Lundqvist so it goes both ways.

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09-02-2008, 01:09 PM
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Okay, c'mon. People are making this out to be way more official than I intended. (And are then using the idea of a more official agreement as the justification to say there's no way it happened, which is annoying.)

Are we talking about an ACTUAL transfer here? No. But then Jagr's move to Russia wasn't a transfer either - he was a FA who signed over there. I'm just saying that Glen could've said to Bardin that he wouldn't put up much of a fight to sign Jagr if Bardin agreed to not put up too much of a fight for Cherry next year.

Did Jagr have other offers? It appears so. But it was clear from everything I read that his first two choices were to play for the Rangers or Omsk (and perhaps not necessarily in that order). The Rangers made this decision much easier for him (and again, it's not out of the realm of possibility that Jagr was complicit in the process) by basically dropping out of the race with the contract they offered him.

Again, are the Rangers asking Omsk for a straight-up transfer of Cherry? No. But when it comes time to sign him next year, who will be their only competition? Omsk.

It is not out of the realm of possibility that the Rangers said "we won't mess with the guy you want this year if you don't mess with the guy we want next year." This doesn't mean that they hadn't already made the decision to move on from Jags. It doesn't mean that Jags wasn't involved in the process. It doesn't even mean that when it was arranged (if it was), it was a sure thing that Jagr would wind up in Omsk.

All it means is that Glen may have said "I won't interfere with your efforts to sign player A this year, if you don't interfere with my efforts to sign player B next year." I am not saying they have an official agreement - I'm not saying that there's a contract or even a memo sitting on anyone's desk. I'm just saying that they could have struck a gentlemen's agreement. This sort of thing does happen all the time (especially in international business) and the circumstances make me suspicious. That's it. Why is that so hard to credit?

Regardless, it can only be a good thing that the teams are working together like this.

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09-02-2008, 03:48 PM
  #45
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What about the Russian Hockey Federation telling prospects that if they sign with an NHL team they aren't eligible for the Olympics?

There are politics involved in all aspects of this...
Of course there are politics involved, but Cherapanov is not in the same position as the players currently involved in the tug of war between the NHL and KHL. His contract is up at the end of the season and one of his options is to sign with the Ranger organization. It's his choice. Take the money and stay in Russia or sign with the Ranger organization for what's offered under the CBA.

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09-02-2008, 04:05 PM
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Okay, c'mon. People are making this out to be way more official than I intended. (And are then using the idea of a more official agreement as the justification to say there's no way it happened, which is annoying.)

Are we talking about an ACTUAL transfer here? No. But then Jagr's move to Russia wasn't a transfer either - he was a FA who signed over there. I'm just saying that Glen could've said to Bardin that he wouldn't put up much of a fight to sign Jagr if Bardin agreed to not put up too much of a fight for Cherry next year.

Did Jagr have other offers? It appears so. But it was clear from everything I read that his first two choices were to play for the Rangers or Omsk (and perhaps not necessarily in that order). The Rangers made this decision much easier for him (and again, it's not out of the realm of possibility that Jagr was complicit in the process) by basically dropping out of the race with the contract they offered him.

Again, are the Rangers asking Omsk for a straight-up transfer of Cherry? No. But when it comes time to sign him next year, who will be their only competition? Omsk.

It is not out of the realm of possibility that the Rangers said "we won't mess with the guy you want this year if you don't mess with the guy we want next year." This doesn't mean that they hadn't already made the decision to move on from Jags. It doesn't mean that Jags wasn't involved in the process. It doesn't even mean that when it was arranged (if it was), it was a sure thing that Jagr would wind up in Omsk.

All it means is that Glen may have said "I won't interfere with your efforts to sign player A this year, if you don't interfere with my efforts to sign player B next year." I am not saying they have an official agreement - I'm not saying that there's a contract or even a memo sitting on anyone's desk. I'm just saying that they could have struck a gentlemen's agreement. This sort of thing does happen all the time (especially in international business) and the circumstances make me suspicious. That's it. Why is that so hard to credit?

Regardless, it can only be a good thing that the teams are working together like this.
completely understood, but why would Sather trust Bardin? Of course Bardin is going to make every effort to resign Cherepanov, why wouldn't he? Just like Sather would've made every effort to sign Jagr, if he was convinced they needed him. It's obvious he wasn't convinced.

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09-02-2008, 05:37 PM
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Dubinsky, Korpedo, Dawes, Callahan, Staal, Sanguinetti, Del Zotto, Grachev, Paul Mara, Dawes contract, Gretzky, Messier, Kurri, Coffey, Beukeboom. yeah the guy is a real idiot...
First Mara wasn't drafted by the Rangers. Second Grachev, Del Zotto, Sanguinetti, Dawes, and Korpedo have had as good an NHL career as Jason Bonsiganore and Hugh Jessiman. Sather did build an amazing team in Edmonton, a lot of people think he got lucky, but I don't think you get lucky winning 5 cups. But that was a long time ago. He has made bold statements in the past that if he had the Rangers money he would win a cup every year..........0 for 8 on that statement. Lee Falardeau says hi.

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09-02-2008, 05:43 PM
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First Mara wasn't drafted by the Rangers. Second Grachev, Del Zotto, Sanguinetti, Dawes, and Korpedo have had as good an NHL career as Jason Bonsiganore and Hugh Jessiman. Sather did build an amazing team in Edmonton, a lot of people think he got lucky, but I don't think you get lucky winning 5 cups. But that was a long time ago. He has made bold statements in the past that if he had the Rangers money he would win a cup every year..........0 for 8 on that statement. Lee Falardeau says hi.
you said contracts so i put mara down...and dawes has had much much of a better career than what Jessiman can do in a videogame, and so far korpedo has played in the playoffs and scored. how many games has jessiman played?

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09-02-2008, 06:13 PM
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This may all be strange.

But it couldn't possibly hurt the chances of getting Cherepanov over here next summer.

That must be the underlying reason for starting this whole thing.

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09-02-2008, 11:32 PM
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Okay, c'mon. People are making this out to be way more official than I intended. (And are then using the idea of a more official agreement as the justification to say there's no way it happened, which is annoying.)

Are we talking about an ACTUAL transfer here? No. But then Jagr's move to Russia wasn't a transfer either - he was a FA who signed over there. I'm just saying that Glen could've said to Bardin that he wouldn't put up much of a fight to sign Jagr if Bardin agreed to not put up too much of a fight for Cherry next year.

Did Jagr have other offers? It appears so. But it was clear from everything I read that his first two choices were to play for the Rangers or Omsk (and perhaps not necessarily in that order). The Rangers made this decision much easier for him (and again, it's not out of the realm of possibility that Jagr was complicit in the process) by basically dropping out of the race with the contract they offered him.

Again, are the Rangers asking Omsk for a straight-up transfer of Cherry? No. But when it comes time to sign him next year, who will be their only competition? Omsk.

It is not out of the realm of possibility that the Rangers said "we won't mess with the guy you want this year if you don't mess with the guy we want next year." This doesn't mean that they hadn't already made the decision to move on from Jags. It doesn't mean that Jags wasn't involved in the process. It doesn't even mean that when it was arranged (if it was), it was a sure thing that Jagr would wind up in Omsk.

All it means is that Glen may have said "I won't interfere with your efforts to sign player A this year, if you don't interfere with my efforts to sign player B next year." I am not saying they have an official agreement - I'm not saying that there's a contract or even a memo sitting on anyone's desk. I'm just saying that they could have struck a gentlemen's agreement. This sort of thing does happen all the time (especially in international business) and the circumstances make me suspicious. That's it. Why is that so hard to credit?

Regardless, it can only be a good thing that the teams are working together like this.

I feel the same way you do... I think people on here are forgetting audio clips we heard from Sather a few days after Jagr signed with Omsk... He said contracts talks never even progressed to the point where they were talking dollar amounts... They never really heard a definitive answer from Jagr's camp as to whether or not he was even seriously interested in renegotiating a contract... People keep thinking Sather did everything he could to sign Jagr but really the ball was in Jagr and his Agent's court the whole time...

Jagr met with Bardin before the off-season... You have to believe they had a substantial discussion and didn't just exchange glances over a cup of tea... My thinking is that Jagr, Sather, and Bardin all had a pretty good idea of how it was going to pan out in the off-season.... Glen could have mimicked Bardin's moves and thrown a ridiculous amount of money at Jagr to try and retain him.... Instead it seems they simply asked Jagr's camp for an answer about re-signing and never got one... But I believe Sather when he said they never talked contract amounts with his Agent...

I believe Sather is a smart business man and realizes the potential asset he has in Cherepanov, and future Russian prospects we draft who may play for Omsk.... He realizes it only maximizes his chances of securing said player if he develops a business relationship with clubs like Osmk... Will that ultimately work to our advantage, who knows? Can it hurt?

If Sather was really under the impression that Omsk would do everything they can to re-sign Cherepanov regardless, there's no way you would see this level of intermingling between the 2 clubs....

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