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Gaborik To New York?

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Old
09-03-2008, 05:02 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
ok new question...

would you give up zherdev, sangs, rozy and a 1st for gabbo and 3-4 d-man?
No way.

Rozsival, Chere, 1st in '10, and Rissmiller

I dunno we can start with that. And I would not trade Prucha.

Prucha-Gomez-Gaborik

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09-03-2008, 05:02 PM
  #77
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Two things:

One, i would not deal Cherepanov AND 2009 1st round pick.

2009 is a deep offensive draft, and i would not be willing to give up the first round pick AND Cherepanov. It would have to be one or the other, not both.


Two, We have to remember that Gaborik is injury prone. The guy can't stay healthy. If he could, he would be a perennial 40+ goal scorer. But the plain fact is that he is fragile. Do we cant to give up all the personnel and money for an injury prone player? IMO, it would not be wise.


Now, if we are talking about Kovalchuk, you have a deal. I would give up Cherepanov and the first round, and more for him. Because he is a perennial 50 goal scorer, a year younger then Gaborik, and he is HEALTHY.


I would rather hold off on Gaborik, and dive head first into the Kovalchuk sweepstakes. And get him locked up long term.

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09-03-2008, 05:47 PM
  #78
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I hope this deal gets done.... but for the right price

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09-03-2008, 06:05 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
Ah, well thats sounds better then him being injured....
Actually, we blame his agent and DR. He wanted a reasonable deal but DR said no. Mind you, this was right after the playoffs when Gaborik pretty much carried the team through the playoffs.

Both of them were off their marks, but DR wouldn't budge. It didn't help that Gaborik had Allen Walsh as his agent, who has given headaches to DR before. And Dupuis was also holding out...Here's the article:

Quote:
Gaborik was originally was asking for close to $6.5 million a year, but lowered his asking price to $13.5 million over three years.

Risebrough had offered Gaborik a three-year, $9.45-million US contract sheet just over two weeks ago, but it was turned down. The offer would have given Gaborik $2.8 million this season, $3.15 million next year and $3.55 million in 2005-06, plus incentives.
http://origin.www.cbc.ca/sports/stor...ing031031.html

Now Gaborik was asking for a little too much and he realized that, lowering his offer down to around 4.5 million, which isn't unreasonable. He was an up-and-coming star, no salary cap, was Minnesota's franchise player and basically guided them through a stellar playoff series, in which they upset not only one but two powerful teams. DR basically slightly raised Gaborik's salary from the 1-2 million he got barely. No wonder Gaborik sat out. They couldn't come to a reasonable agreement.

No problems at the last contract signing though.

Now, again, Gaborik got injured because he returned too fast. He was injured, came back to play a game and then re-injured it.

BTW:

Minnesota and New York won't make good trading partners.

First, Roszival is overpaid, we don't need him, especially at 5 million a year. Where would we stick him? We got Zidlicky, Burns, Schultz, and Johnsson in our top 4 and Lemaire likes all four of them. Well three, but he'll like Zidlicky. So that's 5 million for a 3rd defensive pairing guy? Eh, pass.

Secondly, we don't need a center actually. We got Pouliot, Sheppard, and Koivu right now and Belanger as a utility. Plus we got Locke and Kolanos in the minors. Not that good but will manage in a pinch. Plus DR is committed to seeing how Pouliot does this year in the NHL. He did okay last year for a stretch, so really no need to put another center there when we are starting to get a log jam there.

Third, we need scorers. Not guys that set up, so Gomez wouldn't be an option. Who the hell would he pass to? Nolan? Brunette, Koivu, Bouchard are primarily guys that do well on assists not goals. Sheppard and Pouliot are unproven. Belanger er. Moving on. We got a few youngsters too that are primarily guys that move the puck but don't shoot it.

Fourth, if Minnesota gives up Gaborik than that'll signal a change in the organization. That means we will need prospects back or young players back. Not guys like Gomez and Drury, who are in the middle or nearing the last few years of their careers.

Fifth and finally, we don't want Russians. It's not that they aren't skilled but the risk of flight is too great for the Wild to take a gamble on. We lost Misharin, Voloshenko and Sushinsky and the last one, Voloshenko broke DR's back I think. He won't take a risk on a Russian, even if it is a good Russian like Cherepanov (who we could have grabbed last year). So, Cherepanov and Zherdev, I don't see Minnesota wanting a lot.

So...

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09-03-2008, 06:08 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
ok new question...

would you give up zherdev, sangs, rozy and a 1st for gabbo and 3-4 d-man?
I swear to god do you people even think about these deals?

Were giving up a potential future first liner (very good potential) and a #2 defenseman, a potential offensive powerhouse in sanguenetti and a first round pick for what ZHERDEV COULD TURN INTO? With what Zherdev has shown, he has the potential to be another Gaborik type player.

This is the most ludacris ****ing deal I have ever seen.

Drury Sangs 1st 2nd is more legitimate is more like it. You keep your defense in tact, Minnesota gets a 60 point guy, a great prospect and two high picks and the Rangers get a top line of Gaborik Gomez and Zherdev.

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09-03-2008, 06:16 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
You people are crazy. Gaborik is a good player, but he's streaky, he's injury-prone, and he isn't reliable.

Isn't this the same strategy that got the Rangers into trouble for so many years - trade a bunch of good young players and picks for a big name?

Huge pass.
What "good young players" did the Rangers give up in the last 15 years exactly? Yes, there were a lot of trades involving young players, very few of which ended up being "good."

Besides, Gaborik is 26 years old.

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09-03-2008, 06:27 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
Goborik when healthy is an elite player. not a good player. gomeaz and drury are good players. They are nowhere near Gabbys league when Gabby is healthy.

He is injury prone. Can't hide that fact.
That's the point, he can't stay healthy. And I don't wanna hear excuses, the fact remains that he has missed significant amounts of time in two of the last three seasons.

Furthermore, he completely disappeared in the playoffs this past year, with a single assist in 6 games played. Doesn't like like an elite player to me. And elite player produces whenever and wherever he plays, not disappear when it's most important.


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The last 3 season's he has avgeraged over a pt per game. How is that a Streaky and unreliable player.
Considering he only played 65 games in '05-06, and only 48 games in '06-07, that stat isn't as impressive as it seems on the surface.

As for the unreliable part, I just said so in the first part of this post. A reliable player doesn't completely disappear when his team needs him most.


Quote:
Prucha is a streaky unreliable player.
No, he's not. He's a guy who overachieved for a season and a half, playing as a cleanup hitter for Jagr. Look at what Sykora is doing in Pittsburgh, and look at the rest of his career and compare the two. Of course, that's not the perfect comparison, but it illustrates my point well enough.

Prucha is not the player who scored 30 goals, or 22 goals, he's the player who scored 7 goals. For anyone who followed Prucha before he played in the NHL, he was never supposed to be a goal scorer, point producer. He was always an energy guy and was more of a grind-it-out type player. He was never projected to be anything more than a 3rd-liner, maybe a fill-in 2nd line guy in a bind, but nothing more.

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Gabby isn't. he had one 5 game streak w/o a pt and one 4 game streak. after that there was a couple two's but basically he got a point every game, or every other. that's not really streaky.
Actually, it kinda is, especially for someone you call an "elite" player. Elite players shouldn't go 5 games without a point.


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and the Rangers old philosophy was a trading away young players for OLD players.
It wasn't the age they were trading for, it was the name. The Rangers as an organization has had a fascination for big names for years, and the majority of them who come here turn out to be serious failures, for whatever reason.

It's that fascination with the big name guys that I'm referring to as the wrong mentality. People get so caught up in the name that they don't stop to think how that player would fit in to the long-term plans and chemistry of the team, similar to what Sather did last year in going out to get Gomez & Drury. It was the big names, he didn't stop to think that maybe they wouldn't fit with the team as currently constructed, which I don't feel they did. It's like a compulsion. For the first time in I can't remember how long, the Rangers as a team for once don't have that "big name player", and they'll probably be better for it.

Just because he's a big name (and an excellent hockey player), doesn't mean he makes sense for this team, at this time. Same thing happening with Sundin - people just have this fascination with big-name players, they're not thinking about the fact that the Rangers are overloaded with centers and completely shallow at wing. They just want Sundin because he's a big name.


Quote:
Not 26 yr old payers in their prime, and are among the elite.
"Among the elite" is debateable, as I've already expressed. He's definitely up there, but I wouldn't quite put him in that top tier, at least not yet. And you're also not emphasizing his injury-prone nature, something that could be far more detrimental than you seem to believe. What if we give up a bunch of guys and picks (which is another thing, giving up picks, that exemplifies the return to that old mentality of "Draft picks are worthless, I want to win now!"), and Gaborik is significantly injured and misses half the season? What if he disappears in te playoffs again? And what assurance is there that neither of these things would happen again?


Quote:
also using your thinking you must have hated the Zherdev trade also as we traded our young talent.
No, I loved the Zherdev trade, because we didn't trade quantity for quality, we dealt from a position of strength, and we dealt a young defenseman (who had obviously reached his ceiling in New York) for an even younger and more talented player, and also got another young player back for essentially throwing away our overpayed garbage.

Quote:
their old philosophy was also signing overpaid, and overrated free agents but many people here don't have problems w/ the gomez, drury, naslund, redden signings.
Maybe not everyone, but most here don't like those contracts. They like the players (for the most part), but not the contracts.

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jeez. people want a youth movement, but don't want to get elite youth, just a bunch of 3rd liners who can maybe achieve 2nd line potential. Getting Gabo will help solidify the youth movement, NOT hurt it.
That's a very narrow remark, and not very fair. Just because many of us want a youth movement, doesn't mean that every big-name player should be pursued, especially one with such a significant risk of injury.

Like others have said, why trade a whole bunch of assets for a player who will likely be available in the free agent market last year? And even further, why go after Gaborik when we could wait for Kovalchuk to possibly hit the market?

Quote:
We already have way tooo many prospects for us to use them all on the ice. so use them in a trade. plus than we will be forced to shed one of our horrible contracts in Gomez or Drury ot get an ELITE player. notice how I say ELITE. not a good player, but an ELITE player.
Something tells me the Wild aren't going to be interested in our lower-tier prospects, so that means they'd want top prospects and/or good roster players, and trading those guys for a player like Gaborik, I think, would be a serious gaffe.


Last edited by Turambar: 09-03-2008 at 07:01 PM.
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09-03-2008, 06:29 PM
  #83
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If I had a chance to give up prospects for a proven phenomenal player like Gaborik, I'd do it in a second - a team that doesn't shy away from using the wallet like the Rangers would be the best fit because he will of course command massive dollars at the end of his deal...

I wouldn't trade Marc Staal or Dubinsky, but everyone else should be fair game to get a player like that.

If this deal were to happen, it is a shame that Redden got double what he's worth, and Roszival was signed to big bucks weeks after they told him to go fly a kite... those signings both limit their chances of keeping Gaborik if they can get him.

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09-03-2008, 06:34 PM
  #84
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Agreed Jeff.

But I disagree about Prucha. He's going to make a comeback. Goals are goals no matter how you get them.

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09-03-2008, 06:37 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by FromGomezToZherdev View Post
Agreed Jeff.

But I disagree about Prucha. He's going to make a comeback. Goals are goals no matter how you get them.
Hope he's being practicing shooting while on his rump.

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09-03-2008, 06:41 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Njdevilsfireonice30 View Post
If I had a chance to give up prospects for a proven phenomenal player like Gaborik, I'd do it in a second - a team that doesn't shy away from using the wallet like the Rangers would be the best fit because he will of course command massive dollars at the end of his deal...

I wouldn't trade Marc Staal or Dubinsky, but everyone else should be fair game to get a player like that.

If this deal were to happen, it is a shame that Redden got double what he's worth, and Roszival was signed to big bucks weeks after they told him to go fly a kite... those signings both limit their chances of keeping Gaborik if they can get him.
Redden isnt worth as much as Meszaros, Finger, Hainsey, Commodore, ect.? i think Redden got paid about 1-1.5 mil to much IMO. but Rozsivals contract wasnt that bad, Liles had recieved 4 mil and i'd take Rosy over JML. Id rather have a strong offense and a balanced Offense than a weak defense and strong offense. you gotta build from the net out.

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09-03-2008, 06:45 PM
  #87
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09-03-2008, 06:54 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
What "good young players" did the Rangers give up in the last 15 years exactly? Yes, there were a lot of trades involving young players, very few of which ended up being "good."

Besides, Gaborik is 26 years old.
Zubov for one, and that trade still haunts the Rangers to this day. 14 years later, he's still one of the top-10 defenseman in this league. And who came back in that deal, do you remember?

Another that comes to mind is Savard. Kim Johnsson is yet another.

There's more, and of course there's all the 1st-rounders they traded away, which surely didn't help, either.


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09-03-2008, 06:58 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
Zubov for one, and that trade still haunts the Rangers to this day. 14 years later, he's still one of the top-10 defenseman in this league. And who came back in that deal, do you remember?

There's more, and of course there's all the 1st-rounders they traded away, which surely didn't help, either.
Ulf Samuelsson and Luc Robitaille.


All the first rounders? Since they won the Cup they have only had three drafts without a 1st round pick: 1995, 2000, 2002.

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09-03-2008, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
K.o.v.a.l.c.h.u.k.
that is the player i really want......kovalchuk, grachev, anisimov, cheraponov......thats a core of offensive dynamos......plus with a defense of most likely redden, staal, rozsival, girardi and sanguinetti thats a pretty solid team in front of hank

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09-03-2008, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Njdevilsfireonice30 View Post

If this deal were to happen, it is a shame that Redden got double what he's worth
Jeff Finger, Mike Commodore, & Ron Hainsey all say hi. As do several others.

Quote:
Roszival was signed to big bucks weeks after they told him to go fly a kite... those signings both limit their chances of keeping Gaborik if they can get him.
They also gave the Rangers one of, if not the best defensive corp. in the East.

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09-03-2008, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
Zubov for one, and that trade still haunts the Rangers to this day. 14 years later, he's still one of the top-10 defenseman in this league. And who came back in that deal, do you remember?

Another that comes to mind is Savard. Kim Johnsson is yet another.

There's more, and of course there's all the 1st-rounders they traded away, which surely didn't help, either.
I'm too young to remember that Zubov trade, but just thinking about it brings shivers to my spine.

Do you recall what the NYR got in return ?

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09-03-2008, 07:54 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by FromGomezToZherdev View Post
I'm too young to remember that Zubov trade, but just thinking about it brings shivers to my spine.

Do you recall what the NYR got in return ?
I believe the complete deal was Zubov and Nedved for Luc Robataille and Ulf Samuelsson.

What made that trade terrible is that Zubov had proved he was an outstanding NHL player. Hell, he led the 94 team in scoring.

My point in all of this is theres way too many people that think Bobby Sanguinetti will turn into the next Zubov, and make him virtually untouchable. Its all about asset management, and I would not hesitate to move him in the right deal.

Gaborik is not the right type of deal simply because of his injury history, and if we had the cap space, Id probably still deal a couple of top prospects for him.

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09-03-2008, 08:00 PM
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Sorry for all the questions, but was Zubov traded to Dallas? If not, how'd he get there?

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09-03-2008, 08:08 PM
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Sorry for all the questions, but was Zubov traded to Dallas? If not, how'd he get there?
He was traded to Dallas for Kevin Hatcher.

Worse than the Ranger deal.

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09-03-2008, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by FromGomezToZherdev View Post
Sorry for all the questions, but was Zubov traded to Dallas? If not, how'd he get there?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Zubov

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09-03-2008, 08:17 PM
  #97
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i would honestly give up anything to make the deal. i don't think the rangers have ever had a goal scorer of his caliber at such a young age coming into his prime. Staal is the one guy you look at not giving up, but honestly give up anything to get him...

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09-03-2008, 09:50 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by The Great Dubinsky View Post
I swear to god do you people even think about these deals?

Were giving up a potential future first liner (very good potential) and a #2 defenseman, a potential offensive powerhouse in sanguenetti and a first round pick for what ZHERDEV COULD TURN INTO? With what Zherdev has shown, he has the potential to be another Gaborik type player.

This is the most ludacris ****ing deal I have ever seen.

Drury Sangs 1st 2nd is more legitimate is more like it. You keep your defense in tact, Minnesota gets a 60 point guy, a great prospect and two high picks and the Rangers get a top line of Gaborik Gomez and Zherdev.

i don't like your logic.

and while we're on logic..... Trading Drury? And why would you play Gaborik and Zherdev on the same same.....those are two guys who can create their own offense....better to split them up.

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09-03-2008, 10:12 PM
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honestly.....people who are saying we dont have any top-end talent on offense now are crazy.....dubinsky, dawes, cheraponov, anisimov, zherdev all project to be top 2-line players......plus gomez and drury who are already signed and anyone else who surprises.......

i understand people wanting as much young talent that is physically possible....but at what point do you say this is the core and this is what we are going with?......zherdev, drury, redden, rozsival, gomez, lundqvist.....thats a pretty solid core....plus young players loike dawes, dubinsky, staal, girardi, callahan,(soon to be anisimov, cheraponov, sanguinetti)

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09-03-2008, 10:22 PM
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the real question is are you comfortable with gomez as the best offensive player on your team?

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