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Gaborik To New York?

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Old
09-03-2008, 11:23 PM
  #101
Son of Steinbrenner
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The Rangers have said all offseason they are building the team around Gomez.....He isn't getting traded for Gaborik.....


Drury has a no movement clause.....Lets say the Rangers do agree to trade Drury in a package for Gaborik, what if Drury says no?...which he is likely to do considering he asked for the clause just over a year ago....


That brings us to Rozsvial....I don't think they are trading him 2 months after they just resigned him...but lets say they do....A good defense becomes a top heavy defense that can't cope with ANY injuries....Depth on defense is a problem NOW, subtract Rozsival and insert Potter/Fahey/Pock.....Yikes....The domino then falls to whoever becomes that players partner...what if it's Staal-Pock, Pock-Girardi Mara-Potter etc.......Is that the type of defense a contending team has? Not likely...

Timing is everything with trading for Gaborik....It's hindsight to sit here and say they should've traded for Gaborik two months ago instead of signing Naslund....I hate the Naslund signing AND would've welcomed the addition of Gaborik but NOBODY knows if Gaborik was on the block in early July...The next time the Rangers can trade for Gaborik or ANY top 6 forward that is making top dollar is at the deadline....when they will have the salary cap space to do so, with pro-rated contracts.......Will they? Should they? who knows...The Pens success with Hossa last season might come into play....It also depends on where the Rangers are in the standings...Do you give up major young talent for a playoff push when a cup is unlikely? I wouldn't....Not for somebody that will be a UFA after next season..

Man a blind item in a random article starts this thread.....Can we get the season started already....

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Old
09-03-2008, 11:51 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
the real question is are you comfortable with gomez as the best offensive player on your team?
when he has talented players around him and their isnt a significant drop-off after him im fine with it.......
gomez
zherdev
drury
naslund
dawes
dubinsky

plus players like cheraponov and anisimov who shoul dbe very good and the defense which should score more goals and set up more goals then last season....im okay with the team the rangers have in place....now, if minny was to offer gaborik for something reasonable would i say no?.....of course i wouldnt.....but at some point you have to realize that the three pieces put together will most likely be better than the one you got back even if he is on the level of ovechkin or kovalchuk.....

think about it....
1st 09, sanguinetti, hillier for gaborik.....

say minny uses that pick to draft a player who tops out at 40 points and a solid two-way player......then sanguinetti tops out as a solid #3 defensean who can qb the pp and put up 40 points......and then hillier tops out as a 3rd liner who can score 35 points.......thats 115 points you just gave up and three positions that you now need to fill through drafting(which means you cant draft for other needs) or through free agency where you have to overpay.......

and those totals i gave are very, very conservative.....

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09-03-2008, 11:52 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
That's the point, he can't stay healthy. And I don't wanna hear excuses, the fact remains that he has missed significant amounts of time in two of the last three seasons.

Furthermore, he completely disappeared in the playoffs this past year, with a single assist in 6 games played. Doesn't like like an elite player to me. And elite player produces whenever and wherever he plays, not disappear when it's most important.
Can you not read or are you completely incapable of actually seeing?

Gaborik got injured because he rushed back on the ice after being injured. He was a vital part of the offense in Minnesota and we started slumping. He thought he was better than he was and really injured it the second time. He got it fixed though.

The other problem with Gaborik was, he was training in Slovakia not in America. So he decided to move back over to America and look at the results. Only 5 games lost last year and a career year for him.

And third, our playoff run? Most of our players disappeared. Avalanche played the Wild before and knew that if they shut down Gaborik, they could pretty much eliminate the Wild. They didn't know that in 02-03. If you get some good players around Gaborik, he'll produce in the playoffs. He did help Koivu get a lot of points as the Avalanche were more focused on him than on Koivu.

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Old
09-03-2008, 11:54 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
when he has talented players around him and their isnt a significant drop-off after him im fine with it.......
gomez
zherdev
drury
naslund
dawes
dubinsky

plus players like cheraponov and anisimov who shoul dbe very good and the defense which should score more goals and set up more goals then last season....im okay with the team the rangers have in place....now, if minny was to offer gaborik for something reasonable would i say no?.....of course i wouldnt.....but at some point you have to realize that the three pieces put together will most likely be better than the one you got back even if he is on the level of ovechkin or kovalchuk.....

think about it....
1st 09, sanguinetti, hillier for gaborik.....

say minny uses that pick to draft a player who tops out at 40 points and a solid two-way player......then sanguinetti tops out as a solid #3 defensean who can qb the pp and put up 40 points......and then hillier tops out as a 3rd liner who can score 35 points.......thats 115 points you just gave up and three positions that you now need to fill through drafting(which means you cant draft for other needs) or through free agency where you have to overpay.......

and those totals i gave are very, very conservative.....
That offer for Gaborik is laughable, and frankly, downright embarassing.

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Old
09-03-2008, 11:55 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
That offer for Gaborik is laughable, and frankly, downright embarassing.
i know that.....i was just using it to make a point....if you think that isnt enough, just imagine how bad of a time the rangers would have to go through in order to get him........

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09-04-2008, 12:16 AM
  #106
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personally, i hope the rangers see how the zherdev experiment works out before we even consider a trade for some high priced winger in the mould of Gaborik or Kovalchuk.

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09-04-2008, 12:38 AM
  #107
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btw, on another site, one of the posters there, who i think used to be a poster here who got banned, said that a friend said the rangers have a major announcement tomorrow at 10:30. So heres the deal, yes, 99.9999999999999% its BS, but i figured id at least mention it here in case somehow its right. thats why im not starting an entirely new thread, and prefacing the crap outta this one.

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09-04-2008, 12:40 AM
  #108
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I bet you Alan knows.



Only nyrJeff understands what I just said.

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09-04-2008, 12:46 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by FromGomezToZherdev View Post
I bet you Alan knows.



Only nyrJeff understands what I just said.
you know what i think of when i hear the name "alan"?


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09-04-2008, 05:16 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
btw, on another site, one of the posters there, who i think used to be a poster here who got banned, said that a friend said the rangers have a major announcement tomorrow at 10:30. So heres the deal, yes, 99.9999999999999% its BS, but i figured id at least mention it here in case somehow its right. thats why im not starting an entirely new thread, and prefacing the crap outta this one.


Hmmm....Interesting.

I've been opening NYR.com multiple times daily because I've been having this feeling that their's something else to happen before camp.


Obviously our "Source" is our fathers, brothers, nephews, cousins former roomate. (Can you name that movie?..lol)

I might just have to get up early for this "announcement"

-Brian

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09-04-2008, 05:34 AM
  #111
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announcement you say? hmm i'll be up for a doc appointment so there better be one!

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09-04-2008, 08:15 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sm0otHocKeySPeeD View Post
Hmmm....Interesting.

I've been opening NYR.com multiple times daily because I've been having this feeling that their's something else to happen before camp.


Obviously our "Source" is our fathers, brothers, nephews, cousins former roomate. (Can you name that movie?..lol)

I might just have to get up early for this "announcement"

-Brian
Spaceballs?

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09-04-2008, 09:31 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post

Gaborik is the kind of guy you pay 7+ million dollars for.
...until the end of the season when he becomes a UFA, at which point someone will offer him more, maybe much more.

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09-04-2008, 09:51 AM
  #114
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I have to agree with NYRjeff; Gaborik isn't good enough. If we were talking Rich Nash its worth to explore it -- but Gaborik is a fast breakaway player. He can't run a PP. He isn't a PF. He isn't much of a factor without the puck. He don't make his linemates better.

Basically he is a worthy 7m for his speed and finnishing skills; but thats not what we need at this point.

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09-04-2008, 10:05 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
That's the point, he can't stay healthy. And I don't wanna hear excuses, the fact remains that he has missed significant amounts of time in two of the last three seasons.
Well I didn't realize that one was b/c of contractual problems, so that really isn't an issue. The other was b/c he rushed back from injury. Still he is significantly better than any of our players, and would make us a better team.

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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
Furthermore, he completely disappeared in the playoffs this past year, with a single assist in 6 games played. Doesn't like like an elite player to me. And elite player produces whenever and wherever he plays, not disappear when it's most important.
And Drury was invisible this year for us. Funny how you just mention this one playoffs and not the other where he carried the team. It's one freakin playoff year, not something to write off on. Alfreddson was bad this year, is he now not elite. People can have a bad playoff year and still be elite, if he is bad consistently through the playoffs than there is a problem. One year though, it just could be an aberration.



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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
Considering he only played 65 games in '05-06, and only 48 games in '06-07, that stat isn't as impressive as it seems on the surface
Why not? Is it b/c you don't want it to be. It still is scoring at over a pt per game. Which is much better than anybody on this team.


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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
As for the unreliable part, I just said so in the first part of this post. A reliable player doesn't completely disappear when his team needs him most.
See Drury,Chris. Disappeared this past playoffs, but yet he is still our captain clutch. BS excuse. One year doesn't mean jack. Many years in a row yes, but one year no.

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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
No, he's not. He's a guy who overachieved for a season and a half, playing as a cleanup hitter for Jagr. Look at what Sykora is doing in Pittsburgh, and look at the rest of his career and compare the two. Of course, that's not the perfect comparison, but it illustrates my point well enough.

Prucha is not the player who scored 30 goals, or 22 goals, he's the player who scored 7 goals. For anyone who followed Prucha before he played in the NHL, he was never supposed to be a goal scorer, point producer. He was always an energy guy and was more of a grind-it-out type player. He was never projected to be anything more than a 3rd-liner, maybe a fill-in 2nd line guy in a bind, but nothing more.
All is correct, but he scores in streaks. Look at his first two years. Very streaky. he will get 10 pts in 6 games, and not put in another point for 15 games. That is the definition of streaky.



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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
Actually, it kinda is, especially for someone you call an "elite" player. Elite players shouldn't go 5 games without a point.
yeah so I guess Lecalvalier isn't Elite either. I mean he had two 4 games stretches w/o a point. Kovalchuck had 4 games w/o a point. Rick Nash had a 7 game streak w/o a point, and a 4 game streak. Eric Staal had a 7 and a 4. Dany heatly had a 4 game streak and a 3 game streak (playing w/ Alfreddson and Spezza nonetheless). So are these players not elite as well?

Again it happens. sometimes players just have bad luck, it doesn't take away from them being elite. Plus look at that minnesota team, it's not as if they were an offensive powerhouse. they played very very defensively. Like us.

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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
It wasn't the age they were trading for, it was the name. The Rangers as an organization has had a fascination for big names for years, and the majority of them who come here turn out to be serious failures, for whatever reason.

It's that fascination with the big name guys that I'm referring to as the wrong mentality. People get so caught up in the name that they don't stop to think how that player would fit in to the long-term plans and chemistry of the team, similar to what Sather did last year in going out to get Gomez & Drury. It was the big names, he didn't stop to think that maybe they wouldn't fit with the team as currently constructed, which I don't feel they did. It's like a compulsion. For the first time in I can't remember how long, the Rangers as a team for once don't have that "big name player", and they'll probably be better for it.

Just because he's a big name (and an excellent hockey player), doesn't mean he makes sense for this team, at this time. Same thing happening with Sundin - people just have this fascination with big-name players, they're not thinking about the fact that the Rangers are overloaded with centers and completely shallow at wing. They just want Sundin because he's a big name.
We just did the same thing for Drury, Gomez, Redden, and Naslund. We just went for the names, and gave huge contracts out to players who don't deserve them. At least Gabby would back up a big contract w/ his production. Also you don't win Stanley Cups w/o a big name. it just doesn't happen, or happens extremely rarely, but still we need big time big name scorer. Maybe Zherdev can fill it, but maybe not.


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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
"Among the elite" is debateable, as I've already expressed. He's definitely up there, but I wouldn't quite put him in that top tier, at least not yet. And you're also not emphasizing his injury-prone nature, something that could be far more detrimental than you seem to believe. What if we give up a bunch of guys and picks (which is another thing, giving up picks, that exemplifies the return to that old mentality of "Draft picks are worthless, I want to win now!"), and Gaborik is significantly injured and misses half the season? What if he disappears in the playoffs again? And what assurance is there that neither of these things would happen again?
We have alot of prospects right now. There is no way that we can fit them all in the lineup. We need to use them. It's called asset management. See Montoya, Al for bad asset management. Trade some while they still have value. and to your second parts: he could disappear in the playoffs, but he could also be the person who led his team in goals in 06-07 in the playoffs and tied for first in points on a horrible scoring team.

and let me ask you a question. What happens if zherdev doesn't do well in the PO's this year? Are you going to write him off b/c of one playoff? Would you give him a second chance and be a hypocrite?

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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
That's a very narrow remark, and not very fair. Just because many of us want a youth movement, doesn't mean that every big-name player should be pursued, especially one with such a significant risk of injury.
Why is this question not fair? Is it b/c you don't agree w/ it?

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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
Like others have said, why trade a whole bunch of assets for a player who will likely be available in the free agent market last year? And even further, why go after Gaborik when we could wait for Kovalchuk to possibly hit the market?
would love to sign him. but please tell me w/ what cap space thanks to Captain Cash, Gomez, Redden, Naslund, Rosy. And don't just say trade Rosy b/c that still will be short at least $2 mil, especially since we would drastically overpay for them on the open market. Getting Gaby in a trade we could sign him for a little lower. Plus remember we need cap space to re-sign Zherdev, Dubi, Staal, Dawes, Cally, etc.

so there is almost no chance we sign either on the open Market unless we trade gomez, or Drury. Preferably Drury, but more likely to be Gomez b/c of Cash's NMC.



Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
Something tells me the Wild aren't going to be interested in our lower-tier prospects, so that means they'd want top prospects and/or good roster players, and trading those guys for a player like Gaborik, I think, would be a serious gaffe.
Who said anything about lower tier prospects? I was always saying Gomez, Cherry and a pick. hell I'd do Ani, Cherry and a pick. By having Zherdev and Gabby Cherry is completely dispensible, and we don't have any room for Ani right now unless we get rid of a center. Point is, is there is a ton of ways to get it done, and we have a ton of prospects, plus other prospects we will gain from future drafts.

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09-04-2008, 10:10 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by JAKariyana View Post
Can you not read or are you completely incapable of actually seeing?
No, apparently it's you that can't read.

I said very clearly, I don't want to hear excuses. I couldn't care less why he missed the amount of games he has over the past three seasons, the fact remains he wasn't on the ice, he wasn't helping his team.

You don't like what I think? Too f'ing bad, deal with it, or **** off.

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09-04-2008, 10:13 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by FromGomezToZherdev View Post
I bet you Alan knows.



Only nyrJeff understands what I just said.
Alan knows all.

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Old
09-04-2008, 10:28 AM
  #118
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Hmm 2 minuets until 10 : 30.

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09-04-2008, 10:29 AM
  #119
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What do you guys think about this? I think we can definitely fit Gaborik onto this team.

We trade Dubinsky, Dawes, Prucha, Kalinin and 1st round pick for Gaborik. Gaborik's salary cap figure is 6.3M and we traded 4.92M.

We trade either Rissmiller or Viros (both making 1M) and Mara to free up another 2.95M.

I hate trading Dubinsky but you have to in this situation. We have depth at C and need help on wing. We clearly get the best player in the deal and he fits a major hole. Gaborik can be a 50 goal scorer with Gomez.

This is what our salary cap situation looks.

Zherdev-Gomez-Gaborik = 16.157M
Naslund-Drury-Cally = 11.625M
Sjostrom-Fritsche-Riss/Voros = 2.715M
Orr-Betts-Moore = 1.689M

Forwards = 32.186M

Rozi-Staal = 5.827M
Redden-Girardi = 8.05M
Pock-Potter = 1.120M

Defense = 15.087M

Lundqvist - Valiquette = 7.6M

Player total = 54.873M
Dead space = 1.541M
Total = 56.414M - Salary Cap = 56.7M

So we're 286k UNDER the cap. That's a solid team except the defensive 3rd pairing is weak. We could easily tweak some more things to get even further under the cap.

What do you think?

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09-04-2008, 10:41 AM
  #120
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I think this is rediculous. The guy is fast, good at breakaways and scored 5 against us. What else does he do? Don't we have a guy like that already in Zherdev? I'd never give up Dubi, Stall or any other players mentioned in this thread for him. I'd like to see us just roll with what we got.

Just my couple o pennies

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09-04-2008, 10:56 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I have to agree with NYRjeff; Gaborik isn't good enough. If we were talking Rich Nash its worth to explore it -- but Gaborik is a fast breakaway player. He can't run a PP. He isn't a PF. He isn't much of a factor without the puck. He don't make his linemates better.

Basically he is a worthy 7m for his speed and finnishing skills; but thats not what we need at this point.
Last time I checked, we don't have any solid finishers. How many times have we said "How many points would Gomez have if people around him finished just half of their chances". Gaborik can be a 50 goal scorer with Gomez.

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09-04-2008, 11:00 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by coolbean04 View Post
What do you guys think about this? I think we can definitely fit Gaborik onto this team.

We trade Dubinsky, Dawes, Prucha, Kalinin and 1st round pick for Gaborik. Gaborik's salary cap figure is 6.3M and we traded 4.92M.

We trade either Rissmiller or Viros (both making 1M) and Mara to free up another 2.95M.

I hate trading Dubinsky but you have to in this situation. We have depth at C and need help on wing. We clearly get the best player in the deal and he fits a major hole. Gaborik can be a 50 goal scorer with Gomez.

This is what our salary cap situation looks.

Zherdev-Gomez-Gaborik = 16.157M
Naslund-Drury-Cally = 11.625M
Sjostrom-Fritsche-Riss/Voros = 2.715M
Orr-Betts-Moore = 1.689M

Forwards = 32.186M

Rozi-Staal = 5.827M
Redden-Girardi = 8.05M
Pock-Potter = 1.120M

Defense = 15.087M

Lundqvist - Valiquette = 7.6M

Player total = 54.873M
Dead space = 1.541M
Total = 56.414M - Salary Cap = 56.7M

So we're 286k UNDER the cap. That's a solid team except the defensive 3rd pairing is weak. We could easily tweak some more things to get even further under the cap.

What do you think?
I think our team just became worse, and we gave up way to much. The only way to get Gabby is to get rid of Gomez, or Drury. Otherwise we are just making more holes, and more cap problems.

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09-04-2008, 01:05 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Sm0otHocKeySPeeD View Post
Hmmm....Interesting.

I've been opening NYR.com multiple times daily because I've been having this feeling that their's something else to happen before camp.


Obviously our "Source" is our fathers, brothers, nephews, cousins former roomate. (Can you name that movie?..lol)

I might just have to get up early for this "announcement"

-Brian
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Originally Posted by ImmortalRanger View Post
announcement you say? hmm i'll be up for a doc appointment so there better be one!
yep, as i totally expected it was another one of his retarded pranks. thats why i prefaced the crap out of it, and made sure you guys realized it was bs.

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09-04-2008, 02:04 PM
  #124
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Spaceballs?

Tell him what he's WON BOB!!

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09-04-2008, 02:52 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by coolbean04 View Post
What do you guys think about this? I think we can definitely fit Gaborik onto this team.

We trade Dubinsky, Dawes, Prucha, Kalinin and 1st round pick for Gaborik. Gaborik's salary cap figure is 6.3M and we traded 4.92M.

We trade either Rissmiller or Viros (both making 1M) and Mara to free up another 2.95M.

I hate trading Dubinsky but you have to in this situation. We have depth at C and need help on wing. We clearly get the best player in the deal and he fits a major hole. Gaborik can be a 50 goal scorer with Gomez.

This is what our salary cap situation looks.

Zherdev-Gomez-Gaborik = 16.157M
Naslund-Drury-Cally = 11.625M
Sjostrom-Fritsche-Riss/Voros = 2.715M
Orr-Betts-Moore = 1.689M

Forwards = 32.186M

Rozi-Staal = 5.827M
Redden-Girardi = 8.05M
Pock-Potter = 1.120M

Defense = 15.087M

Lundqvist - Valiquette = 7.6M

Player total = 54.873M
Dead space = 1.541M
Total = 56.414M - Salary Cap = 56.7M

So we're 286k UNDER the cap. That's a solid team except the defensive 3rd pairing is weak. We could easily tweak some more things to get even further under the cap.

What do you think?
I'm not completely against acquiring Marian Gaborik because he would give us a player that can score at any time and that other teams have to beware of. However, if the end result is Ryan Callahan on the second line, we're in trouble. I like Cally and everything he brings to the game, but he is much better suited as a 3rd line winger at this point in his career.

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