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Trade Confirmed: Ryan Shannon to Ottawa for Lawrence Nycholat [confirmed]

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09-04-2008, 02:17 PM
  #126
putridgasbag
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
Gillis has also been clear that he's big on players/personnel who have winning traditions, so it may also be that he feels having a winning team on the Moose will only benefit prospects down there.
I don't get it. To me the farm team's number one objective is to develop players for the parent team. Winning is always preferable to losing (well duh) but not at the expense of developing players for the big league team. If the prime minutes on the farm are being sucked up by AHL vets who really aren't destined to play on the Canucks how is this helping in the development of the kids?

Baumer and Nyquil (or however you spell the new guy's name) are both on the farm taking top 4 minutes how does that help the Canucks in the future? Are either of these two guys really going to ever be Canucks for more than emergency purposes? How about Krog. If he is the top centre on the farm that means he is getting all the prime minutes that a kid should be getting.

If the goal in Winnipeg is too win with the vets then the coaching staff will be playing these vets over younger guys which in my very humble opinion will delay the development of these younger guys. The farm team to me should be about taking your youngsters and letting them play and play a lot in all situations.

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09-04-2008, 02:19 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by putridgasbag View Post
I don't get it. To me the farm team's number one objective is to develop players for the parent team. Winning is always preferable to losing (well duh) but not at the expense of developing players for the big league team. If the prime minutes on the farm are being sucked up by AHL vets who really aren't destined to play on the Canucks how is this helping in the development of the kids?

Baumer and Nyquil (or however you spell the new guy's name) are both on the farm taking top 4 minutes how does that help the Canucks in the future? Are either of these two guys really going to ever be Canucks for more than emergency purposes? How about Krog. If he is the top centre on the farm that means he is getting all the prime minutes that a kid should be getting.

If the goal in Winnipeg is too win with the vets then the coaching staff will be playing these vets over younger guys which in my very humble opinion will delay the development of these younger guys. The farm team to me should be about taking your youngsters and letting them play and play a lot in all situations.
What young center's prospect spot is Krog taking next year? What prospect defensemen are losing spots b/c of Baumer and Nycholat next year?

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09-04-2008, 02:20 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by putridgasbag View Post
I don't get it. To me the farm team's number one objective is to develop players for the parent team. Winning is always preferable to losing (well duh) but not at the expense of developing players for the big league team. If the prime minutes on the farm are being sucked up by AHL vets who really aren't destined to play on the Canucks how is this helping in the development of the kids?

Baumer and Nyquil (or however you spell the new guy's name) are both on the farm taking top 4 minutes how does that help the Canucks in the future? Are either of these two guys really going to ever be Canucks for more than emergency purposes? How about Krog. If he is the top centre on the farm that means he is getting all the prime minutes that a kid should be getting.
The Canucks have no legitimate prospects expect to contribute at a reasonable level at either center or defense for the coming season. Krog, Baumgartner, and Nycholat are not taking ice time away from any legit Canuck prospects.

And having some puck moving defensemen and a talented center to play with should help the development of Grabner and Hansen.

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09-04-2008, 02:26 PM
  #129
Barney Gumble
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What young center's prospect spot is Krog taking next year? What prospect defensemen are losing spots b/c of Baumer and Nycholat next year?
Exactly. The Canucks have ONLY TWO top six center prospects (heck only TWO top NINE center prospects) in their ENTIRE prospect system - neither of who can play (or is ready to play) on the Moose for a couple years.

What offensive defensemen prospects do the Canucks have? Coloumbe (sp?) is pretty much the only one -and he will be in Victoria at best this upcoming season.

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09-04-2008, 02:39 PM
  #130
putridgasbag
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What young center's prospect spot is Krog taking next year? What prospect defensemen are losing spots b/c of Baumer and Nycholat next year?
I'd rather they take a flyer on undrafted juniors or college players than sign guys who are at best journeymen pros. Hell take Brown see if he can play centre. or Simek or Hansen at least these guys could develop into players that could be NHLers. The vets which include the 3 and Cullen and Keene are basically done as NHL players. Let them sign in Europe or Antartica for all I care.

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09-04-2008, 03:08 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by putridgasbag View Post
I'd rather they take a flyer on undrafted juniors or college players than sign guys who are at best journeymen pros. Hell take Brown see if he can play centre. or Simek or Hansen at least these guys could develop into players that could be NHLers. The vets which include the 3 and Cullen and Keene are basically done as NHL players. Let them sign in Europe or Antartica for all I care.
What team has ever been successful using an approach like that?

It's not a coincidence that teams that have done a good job bringing talent into the NHL generally have successful AHL teams. Philadelphia, Buffalo, Nashville, Montreal, etc. have all had Calder Cup champion winning teams in recent years and are amongst the best teams in the league in terms of churning out talent into the NHL. Even Detroit had a hugely successful AHL team for many years (though they've fallen off recently) and they've brought in a Krog type AHL talent in Darren Haydar to help out their team this year.

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09-04-2008, 05:18 PM
  #132
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I agree pitseleh. No one of any long term term importance is likely going to be shorted ice time by bringing in established AHL players. It's a fabricated argument.

However, what guarantee is there that these guys make it thru waivers?

Maybe better to get them (Krog and Nycholat) out of Vancouver early while teams are still testing out young players and internally assessing their teams.

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09-04-2008, 05:23 PM
  #133
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I think Ryan Shannan is going to be better for us, why trade away a center who already proved he could contribute for a 29 years old who barely played in the NHL. That make no sense to me.

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09-04-2008, 05:31 PM
  #134
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They can be demoted as late as the 26th without having to clear waivers.

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09-04-2008, 10:51 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Kesler Kills Kommies View Post
I think Ryan Shannan is going to be better for us, why trade away a center who already proved he could contribute for a 29 years old who barely played in the NHL. That make no sense to me.
Because Shannon had absolutely no place on this team *ahem* "going forward". Wellwood is a better option, believe it or not, and there's no way Shannon should be seeing time ahead of Raymond, Hansen, Grabner, etc. Did you really want to see this guy in our top six again this year, really??

Nycholat replaces the depth on the farm that we lost with Luc's passing. He doesn't replace Luc as a prospect, or his potential, but he does fill the role that Bourdon served for the big club last season. He's also one of the best defensemen in the American League, and the Moose will be counting on him to help lead them to the Calder Cup. I'm much more comfortable calling up Nycholat for fill-in duties than, say, Jim Sharrow. *shudder*

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09-04-2008, 11:02 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Kesler Kills Kommies View Post
I think Ryan Shannan is going to be better for us, why trade away a center who already proved he could contribute for a 29 years old who barely played in the NHL. That make no sense to me.
Because we were down defensive depth from last year.

Davison replaces Miller, but Mike Weaver and Luc Bourdon combined to play 82 games last season as the #8-9 defenders and hadn't really been replaced (well, Baumgartner fills one spot I guess), and there aren't young guys coming up in the system to fill those spots.

On the other hand, the aquisition of Wellwood and Krog and the development of Grabner means that Shannon was much more system-buried than last year and unlikely to see much NHL action here.

Quite simply, Nycholat is more likely to be a useable asset for us next season and see a good chunk of NHL action.

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09-04-2008, 11:03 PM
  #137
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However, what guarantee is there that these guys make it thru waivers?
No guarantee but their one way deals does make it unlikely a number of teams that aren't as financially well off would take a chance on them (they are, after all, unlikely to be regular NHLers at this point in their careers) - or have a AHL club (that they don't own) willing to foot the bill for a good portion of their contract in the minors.

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09-04-2008, 11:08 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by putridgasbag View Post
I'd rather they take a flyer on undrafted juniors or college players than sign guys who are at best journeymen pros. Hell take Brown see if he can play centre. or Simek or Hansen at least these guys could develop into players that could be NHLers. The vets which include the 3 and Cullen and Keene are basically done as NHL players. Let them sign in Europe or Antartica for all I care.
Moving Brown to 1st or 2nd line centre is 1 of the most ridiculous things I've seen on this board, and there's a lot of them....so, well done there!

The best way for Simek and Grabner to develop is by playing with top notch talent, not grinding it out with Mike Brown as their centre!!! They'd be lucky to get 1 chance a game. Not touching the puck all game isn't the best way to develop players...

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10-05-2008, 04:32 PM
  #139
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Sorry to bump this thread, but like many people I did not like this trade when it happened, but Nycholat has really grown on me. Nice deal Gillis, Nycholat could prove as a big part of our D if we get our usual run of injuries to the top 3 (Mitchell, Salo, Ohlund)

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Old
10-05-2008, 04:36 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by putridgasbag View Post
I don't get it. To me the farm team's number one objective is to develop players for the parent team. Winning is always preferable to losing (well duh) but not at the expense of developing players for the big league team. If the prime minutes on the farm are being sucked up by AHL vets who really aren't destined to play on the Canucks how is this helping in the development of the kids?

Baumer and Nyquil (or however you spell the new guy's name) are both on the farm taking top 4 minutes how does that help the Canucks in the future? Are either of these two guys really going to ever be Canucks for more than emergency purposes? How about Krog. If he is the top centre on the farm that means he is getting all the prime minutes that a kid should be getting.

If the goal in Winnipeg is too win with the vets then the coaching staff will be playing these vets over younger guys which in my very humble opinion will delay the development of these younger guys. The farm team to me should be about taking your youngsters and letting them play and play a lot in all situations.
Yeah because we want to develop our players in a losing environment. Sure you could get some good players...but generally players who come from a winning background develop an aura that carries with them throughout their careers.

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