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Vancouver's dilemma

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Old
09-04-2008, 04:34 PM
  #51
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All we have is a questionable team that will not disappoint us if they don't make the playoffs.

And Ohlund will stay here. The Sedins will, as well. Not everyone is motivated by money. I also can't remember the last time that we lost a player to free agency that we wanted to keep on the team. Vancouver's a great city, and people love it here.

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Old
09-04-2008, 04:37 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartnonis View Post
Isn't Horcoff's deal worth $6.5mm per? Also, Barry was tossing around other comps as well: Gomez, Drury and Briere IIRC. I don't want any part of the Sedins at a combined cap hit of $13-14mm, they just don't bring enough to the table to justify that kind of dough....IMO. If they're willing to sign for $5.5mm each, well, that's another story.

edit: NHL numbers has horcoff's extension very wrong...

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.p...DM&season=0809
Yeah, it looks like they have it on a salary basis (as it's front loaded). It works out to a cap hit of $5.5 million.

The impression I got listening to the interview was that he threw out Horcoff's name as a comparable re-signing, while he felt that if they went to UFA that they could get comparable dollars to Drury and Gomez. I think Barry and the twins know they won't be able to get as much as a package (unless maybe if they were to sign with a team like Atlanta or the Isles).

If they do want $6.5 million per, I don't think the Canucks can afford to let them go anyway, unless the FA market shapes up to be much better than this season's. Teams rarely let first line players make it to UFA, and they'll be hard pressed to replace their production unless they re-sign the twins.

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Old
09-04-2008, 04:46 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Cao View Post
I also can't remember the last time that we lost a player to free agency that we wanted to keep on the team. Vancouver's a great city, and people love it here.
Jovanovski.

Not that I disagree with your overall point.

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09-04-2008, 04:51 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
Yeah, it looks like they have it on a salary basis (as it's front loaded). It works out to a cap hit of $5.5 million.

The impression I got listening to the interview was that he threw out Horcoff's name as a comparable re-signing, while he felt that if they went to UFA that they could get comparable dollars to Drury and Gomez. I think Barry and the twins know they won't be able to get as much as a package (unless maybe if they were to sign with a team like Atlanta or the Isles).

If they do want $6.5 million per, I don't think the Canucks can afford to let them go anyway, unless the FA market shapes up to be much better than this season's. Teams rarely let first line players make it to UFA, and they'll be hard pressed to replace their production unless they re-sign the twins.
I guess it depends a lot on how well the team does going into the trade deadline. If the team is playing well, are in a playoff spot and gaining momentum, then yeah, Gillis probably pays up and gets them extended. If it feels like last year or 05/06 and we're not in the hunt and everyone is trying to figure out "what's wrong with the Canucks", I think they'll be moved.

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Old
09-04-2008, 04:54 PM
  #55
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Do you guys think Gillis has tried to throw 7-10 mil at Selanne on the hopes he might bite?

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Old
09-04-2008, 04:58 PM
  #56
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Cap

Quote:
Originally Posted by roddy View Post
Jovanovski.

Not that I disagree with your overall point.
Jovo was more cap casuality than anything. He's 3 million more than Mitchell. So, what would the Nucks have had to do to shave off 3 million off that $45 million cap?

As for Ohlund, most vets who sign away their UFA years, they want the NTC so that they have a say in where they go. Ohlund is comfortable in Vancouver and his family is happy there.

As for the original poster, I agree that this is make or break for the Canucks. Missing the playoffs would mean an entire summer of "Will Luongo sign an extension with the team?" that missed the playoffs 2/3 years he was there. Meaning that a 30 year old goalie would have only been to the playoffs 1 time in his career, with his career then half over.

Nucks current roster is a tweener between bottom feeders and last spot of playoffs. They'll be in the mix for a playoff spot hanging anywhere between #7 to #10. Not enough offense to ensure a spot, but too good defensively to be in the bottom 5 of the league.

C. Schneider is their best prospect, but he can't be moved until Luongo signs an extension or Luongo gets traded and the team goes with Schneider.

As for the Twins, hard for them to get 7 million each on the same team. If they want to play together, they'll have to take a bit less.

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Old
09-04-2008, 05:01 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntison View Post
Do you guys think Gillis has tried to throw 7-10 mil at Selanne on the hopes he might bite?
Selanne is not coming here. We actually have a better shot at Sundin and he's not coming here either.

I can't think of one good reason for Selanne to sign in Vancouver. He's not interested in a giant payday.

He'll re-sign with the Ducks if he comes back at all.

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Old
09-04-2008, 05:28 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmyheadhurts View Post
Selanne is not coming here. We actually have a better shot at Sundin and he's not coming here either.

I can't think of one good reason for Selanne to sign in Vancouver. He's not interested in a giant payday.

He'll re-sign with the Ducks if he comes back at all.
I'm pretty sure you didn't answer my question

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Old
09-04-2008, 05:31 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by cfrancis View Post
Vancouver is easily the worst team in the Northwest, they were last year and they didn't get any better in the offseason.

I agree that they probably won't be in the running for the top picks as there are more worse off teams but Vancouver needs some offensive help. If Sundin doesn't come through for them, they may have to make a couple of moves to try and get some more help. Right now they are a one line team with an exceptional goalie. That only goes so far.
Did you fail math? How could you possibly come to the conclusion that Vancouver is easily the worst team in the NW?

Goal differential is the best indicator of where a team truly lies...

Team---goals for---goals against---goal differential
Minnesota---220---210---(+10)
Colorado---224---216---(+8)
Calgary---226---224---(+2)
Vancouver---207---206---(+1)
Edmonton---220---247---(-27)

Which one of these is not like the other? The Oilers were far and away the worst team in the NW division and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I expect to see improvements from the Oilers but they have a long ways to go to catch up to Vancouver and the rest of the NW division.

School's out.

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Old
09-04-2008, 05:31 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by TheBoognish View Post
while Vancouver just lost a huge chunk of offense,
what huge chunk are you referring to?

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Old
09-04-2008, 05:35 PM
  #61
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and how can a team with 10 mill in cap space be running into cap troubles?

i mean seriously

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Old
09-04-2008, 05:37 PM
  #62
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last year was a strange, freak year for the canucks that could never be duplicated again.

i remember two seasons back we were pegged as a lottery team in the exact same position we are now and put up 105 pts and won the division.

for better or worse, you can't predict the canucks

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Old
09-04-2008, 05:37 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntison View Post
I'm pretty sure you didn't answer my question
I read it as will instead of has, sorry.


I think Gillis' main target all summer has been Sundin. I would be very surprised if he did make a play for Selanne. We desperately need a big center, not a small winger.

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Old
09-04-2008, 05:41 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmyheadhurts View Post
I read it as will instead of has, sorry.


I think Gillis' main target all summer has been Sundin. I would be very surprised if he did make a play for Selanne. We desperately need a big center, not a small winger.
We desperately need a good top 6 forward. We can always move demitra to center.

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Old
09-04-2008, 05:41 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by RedMosquito View Post
I can't understand why anyone thinks intelligence level is based on post count.

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Old
09-04-2008, 05:41 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmyheadhurts View Post
I think Gillis' main target all summer has been Sundin. I would be very surprised if he did make a play for Selanne. We desperately need a big center, not a small winger.
While I agree, I would still make a courtesy phone call and offer. You can't say "we don't need a small winger" when that "small winger" is still capable of 40+ goals and 90+ points.

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Old
09-04-2008, 05:42 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by jin View Post
I'm really surprised that a poster with that many posts would post a thread like this before the season even starts.
Whitehorse.

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Old
09-04-2008, 05:42 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by ItsAllPartOfThePlan View Post
hahaha...what chunk of offense did we lose? Naslund's 25 goals or Morrison's 10?

Combined we lost 80 points...we got back 86 points. How exactly did we lose anything?
6 points difference...? you didnt gain anything either! Im guessing Vancouver gets same place as last year at 10th.

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09-04-2008, 05:43 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
While I agree, I would still make a courtesy phone call and offer. You can't say "we don't need a small winger" when that "small winger" is still capable of 40+ goals and 90+ points.

haha good call

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Old
09-04-2008, 05:47 PM
  #70
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It's funny.

Every 5 years or so, the Canucks change their image.

Early 90s, Trevor Linden, Pavel Bure.
Late 90s, Let's just say, it was a real Mess.
Early 00s, WCE.
Late 00s, Sedins, Luongo.

Time for a complete revamp? Stick with a core that works?

For the FIRST TIME, the Sedins will BE THE GO TO GUYS.

The WCE is finally gone, no more Naslund, no more Morrison.
Naslund should have been traded right after Bertuzzi was, because you knew they had to play together. Mo is a good 2nd liner center, but he isn't going to get you many goals, but he'll give you his heart.

Odd that it's the Sedin's contract year too. They finally could say, this is their team.

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09-04-2008, 05:48 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by OilGagner89 View Post
6 points difference...? you didnt gain anything either! Im guessing Vancouver gets same place as last year at 10th.
except the current nhl season isn't based on last years stats. bernier's totals will go up with the sedins. thats just a proven fact based on every other player who's played with them. and i'm pretty sure demitra can't put up less points than he managed with the defensive wild.

plus we still have 10 mill in cap space to go get someone else.


again, one point out of the nw lead with two weeks left last season with everything going wrong last year.

lets talk in april.

the salary cap has brought parity. look at the nfl.

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Old
09-04-2008, 05:48 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Did you fail math? How could you possibly come to the conclusion that Vancouver is easily the worst team in the NW?

Goal differential is the best indicator of where a team truly lies...

Team---goals for---goals against---goal differential
Minnesota---220---210---(+10)
Colorado---224---216---(+8)
Calgary---226---224---(+2)
Vancouver---207---206---(+1)
Edmonton---220---247---(-27)

Which one of these is not like the other? The Oilers were far and away the worst team in the NW division and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I expect to see improvements from the Oilers but they have a long ways to go to catch up to Vancouver and the rest of the NW division.

School's out.
goals isnt a great way to tell how the standings are going to be...Vancouver is by far behind Edmonton right now and i expect Minnesota to be the worst team in the division. I think edmonton has a great chance at the division!
That comment made me laugh though

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Old
09-04-2008, 05:52 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by timorousme View Post
except the current nhl season isn't based on last years stats. bernier's totals will go up with the sedins. thats just a proven fact based on every other player who's played with them. and i'm pretty sure demitra can't put up less points than he managed with the defensive wild.

plus we still have 10 mill in cap space to go get someone else.


again, one point out of the nw lead with two weeks left last season with everything going wrong last year.

lets talk in april.

the salary cap has brought parity. look at the nfl.
im going by what there team is right now. And right now they did not gain anything and lost leadership. thats a big thing too. I really cant see Vancouver going out to get anyone other than Sundin still.. They should be saving the money to sign the Sedin twins and Luongo and get a high draft pick next year.

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Old
09-04-2008, 05:58 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by OilGagner89 View Post
goals isnt a great way to tell how the standings are going to be...Vancouver is by far behind Edmonton right now and i expect Minnesota to be the worst team in the division. I think edmonton has a great chance at the division!
That comment made me laugh though

You're kidding right?

Did you honestly just say goal differential has no bearing on determining the quality of a team? I always hear people on HF say "that's the stupidest thing I have ever heard" but in this instance it's actually legit. Think about your reply and get back to me. Too funny.

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Old
09-04-2008, 06:00 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
While I agree, I would still make a courtesy phone call and offer. You can't say "we don't need a small winger" when that "small winger" is still capable of 40+ goals and 90+ points.
I agree to a point. Would I prefer Selanne and Sundin to Demitra and Sundin? Absolutely! However, the idea of having a Selanne and Demitra combo holds little interest for me. Yes, Demitra can play center but I really think we need to have a big presence up the middle (or on the wing) and Demitra himself said he plays better with a big a body on his line.

I just think the Canucks have never filled the void left by Bertuzzi. We need a big, skilled top six guy but that's just my opinion.

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