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Rumor - Shanny Back?

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Old
09-09-2008, 11:38 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
Well he sure cant be the Captain of the NY Rangers if he isnt signed.

I guess he has to prove himself fit and hungry. I still believe he will wear the C on opening night.
You don't Captain a team from the 3rd or 4th line.

What happened to "turning the team over to Gomez & Drury", and to getting "younger and faster" ?

This move just proves that Sather really had no plan, and panicked when Jagr left. I was hoping this wasn't the case, but apparently it is.

Stupid move.

EDIT: Check out this Rodent rant - http://www.hockeyrodent.com/R2054.HTM - it gives some good insight on this matter.

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09-09-2008, 11:42 AM
  #27
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it's not a done deal, but the fact that his agent and Sather are speaking this week means that Sather is seriously considering this, which means that he's likely working on some moves to clear salary cap space.

I haven't been a huge fan of him returning, but it's one of those things that if he does return, I'm not going to complain. As said as it sounds I've been a huge fan of his all his career (less so as a Ranger) and I have a hard time bringing myself to complain that he's on the Rangers. My issue has always been about managing his playing time - I mentioned this in his first couple weeks as a Ranger when he was averaging about 20 minutes per game compared to the 16 he was averaging the prior years in Detroit, and I'm still mentioning it.

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09-09-2008, 11:44 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
You don't Captain a team from the 3rd or 4th line.
Its Shanahan. He's the HOF and been here longer than Chris or Scott.


I would be excited to see Drury get the C, but I do believe Chris is old school at heart. He offers the C to Shanny. The question is does he accept?

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09-09-2008, 11:48 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
My issue has always been about managing his playing time - I mentioned this in his first couple weeks as a Ranger when he was averaging about 20 minutes per game compared to the 16 he was averaging the prior years in Detroit, and I'm still mentioning it.
and there you have it, well said. Shanny needs to be used properly to maximize his advantage. He's smart and experienced, but he doesnt have the legs and lungs of the 20yr olds, or the 30yr olds for that matter. I believe he has the heart of 20yr old Shanny, the mindset. He's a gamer and he loves the game. Just don't wear him out in the first 40 games.

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09-09-2008, 12:05 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
and there you have it, well said. Shanny needs to be used properly to maximize his advantage. He's smart and experienced, but he doesnt have the legs and lungs of the 20yr olds, or the 30yr olds for that matter. I believe he has the heart of 20yr old Shanny, the mindset. He's a gamer and he loves the game. Just don't wear him out in the first 40 games.
It's really beyond Shanny or Renney's control. If the "tweeners" that are expected to fill these 2nd line roles can't hack it AND there's the Shanny option on the roster, he's just going to be there by default. It's hard for me to imagine that Renney's going to go to Voros, or Sjostrom, or Korpikoski, or Fritche BEFORE Shanny, and it's hard to say I'd blame him.

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09-09-2008, 12:07 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Chances are, he's in the same boat as Nedved. He's brought in to be a warm body for camp scrimmages and as a bit of a goodwill measure. Even he doesn't make the team, he's in shape and shown what he's got, maybe that makes him attractive to one of 29 other teams.

Unlike Nedved, he probably does have a chance to win a spot with the Rangers. If someone like Prucha has a dismal camp while Shanny looks great, you have the option send Prucha to Hartford, clear his cap hit and sign Shanny before preseason.
I hope you are right but the truth is that he has a far greater chance to be on this roster then PN.

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09-09-2008, 12:07 PM
  #32
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jeff...

why can't a third or fourth liner captain a team? The notion that the captain needs to be your best player is bunk. Kelly Buchberger captained a few teams from third and fourth lines in the past, and I don't think anyone complained about his abilities as a captain.

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09-09-2008, 12:10 PM
  #33
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Mark Messier did it a few years ago on the Rangers...oh wait, he just SHOULD have been on the 3rd line

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09-09-2008, 12:11 PM
  #34
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I lik...

I like Shanny, and I think its great he is back.

He played half a season with a busted knee, and still posted a 20 goal season.

That means a healthy Shanny from the 3rd line would score even more.

And that's 20-30 goals guaranteed....not hoping a kid hits it off and does great.

It will also be a boon to have him around with the kids coming up through the ranks.

Now having Shanny back is going to be a season thing which means we aren't moving from youth, just giving us a backup plan until the kids are really ready to play.

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09-09-2008, 12:16 PM
  #35
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funny, Levitate...there actually were times in which he was getting 15 minutes instead of 20+ minutes during that tenure. I think he played less in his third season compared to the prior seasons. I recall him playing with guys like Tripp and Lundmark, so his ice time couldn't have been great then.

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09-09-2008, 12:19 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
It's really beyond Shanny or Renney's control. If the "tweeners" that are expected to fill these 2nd line roles can't hack it AND there's the Shanny option on the roster, he's just going to be there by default. It's hard for me to imagine that Renney's going to go to Voros, or Sjostrom, or Korpikoski, or Fritche BEFORE Shanny, and it's hard to say I'd blame him.

He's a clear cut asset on special teams imo. Add his shootout skills and for the right price he's a good risk

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09-09-2008, 12:20 PM
  #37
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I can't believe this.

Yea IF he is used on the 4th line playing 8 minutes i'll be happy, but that will NEVER happen. He will be used on the 2nd line, dragging down his teammates, and taking PP time away from people who deserve it more then him.

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09-09-2008, 12:24 PM
  #38
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I can't picture any scenario where Shanahan isn't play top 6 minutes if he comes back. That's disappointing.

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09-09-2008, 12:25 PM
  #39
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i'm happy about this, I was hoping that Shanny woukd be back, his presence takes pressure off the other guys, it's a good move.

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09-09-2008, 12:30 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyGSpot View Post
I like Shanny, and I think its great he is back.

He played half a season with a busted knee, and still posted a 20 goal season.

That means a healthy Shanny from the 3rd line would score even more.

And that's 20-30 goals guaranteed....not hoping a kid hits it off and does great.

It will also be a boon to have him around with the kids coming up through the ranks.

Now having Shanny back is going to be a season thing which means we aren't moving from youth, just giving us a backup plan until the kids are really ready to play.
Thing is, Mikey - the kids ARE ready to play. I mean, what do you want from them before they get a shot? Callahan was at something like 2pts per game in HFD before his last callup. At some point you gotta let them either succeed or fail at the NHL level.

As to why this would be an awful, AWFUL move - he simply will NOT play on the third or fourth line. Anyone who was a fan when Mark Messier came back for tour II should understand that.

"Tom, put me out - I'll get the goal." "Tom, put me out - I'll kill this penalty."

or

"Crap, we're down a goal - I could go with the kid who still isn't established... or I could go with the sure fire HOF guy... hmmm...." "We can't let a goal in on this one, better ask Shanny to try to suck it up one more time..."

Either way - it's not what we need. And it WILL happen.

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09-09-2008, 12:34 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
He's a clear cut asset on special teams imo. Add his shootout skills and for the right price he's a good risk
I would argue that his prescence on our power play hurts it more than it helps it. Our PP last year was set up in a way where he was allowed to sit in the high slot and the other 4 players did all the work along the boards with puck possession. How did that format work out for us? Our PP was terrible last year. If your gonna hangout in the middle of the ice on the PP it has to be in front of the net in the goalies face. Shanny doesn't do that because as well all know Shanny doesn't enter any high contact areas at this point in his career.

The time for Shanny to have a reduced role was last season. I know we are a few months removed from the end of our season but have people forgotten just how horrific shanny looked in the Pitt series? The last two series where we were eliminated (Buff 07' - Pitt 08') Shanny was the worst forward on the ice for us.

I wouldn't take shanny back on this team if he played for free. Why can't we just let players leave when they are done? We learn nothing from past mistakes. This is the Messier fiasco all over again.


Last edited by TomLaidlaw: 09-09-2008 at 12:39 PM.
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09-09-2008, 12:37 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
funny, Levitate...there actually were times in which he was getting 15 minutes instead of 20+ minutes during that tenure. I think he played less in his third season compared to the prior seasons. I recall him playing with guys like Tripp and Lundmark, so his ice time couldn't have been great then.
Yeah, I think at least one of those years, he did start on the third line or so and got restricted minutes. But his minutes inevidably would increase and he'd end up getting close to 20 or so because of who knows what reason.

Messier was more effective with less minutes, but it seemed like the more successful he was, the more minutes coaches would want him to play, and then his effectiveness would decrease.

Same thing with Shanny, I think.

Flyline, a healthy and rested SHanahan on the PP would be a good thing. Sorry, I'd rather have him doing that than some of the other wings the rangers have

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09-09-2008, 12:50 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by TomLaidlaw View Post
I would argue that his presence on our power play hurts it more than it helps it.
I hear ya , but how many Rangers last year scored more goals than Shanahan?

Jagr and Drury

Renny has to be thinking about who is going to score goals on this team. Naslund and Zherdev should help, Dawes and Prucha perhaps as well. But the lack of finish is what killed the Rangers season in most losses.

Shanny was in the top 3 of finishers last season. I think that gets him another shot. Certainly invited to camp

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09-09-2008, 01:02 PM
  #44
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Thing is, Mikey - the kids ARE ready to play. I mean, what do you want from them before they get a shot? Callahan was at something like 2pts per game in HFD before his last callup. At some point you gotta let them either succeed or fail at the NHL level.

As to why this would be an awful, AWFUL move - he simply will NOT play on the third or fourth line. Anyone who was a fan when Mark Messier came back for tour II should understand that.

"Tom, put me out - I'll get the goal." "Tom, put me out - I'll kill this penalty."

or

"Crap, we're down a goal - I could go with the kid who still isn't established... or I could go with the sure fire HOF guy... hmmm...." "We can't let a goal in on this one, better ask Shanny to try to suck it up one more time..."

Either way - it's not what we need. And it WILL happen.
Ummm....no they are not. Not unless you don't mind not making the playoffs for another 6 years.

Tell me one kid who is ready to make the jump and I will make a case as to why they aren't.

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09-09-2008, 01:08 PM
  #45
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I hardly think Shanny is a lock for 20-30 goals as people are saying. Especially if he's on the 3rd line.

He obviously brings some positives to the lineup in the form of leadership, grit and shootout ability, but I just don't think he has the stamina to last an entire season. Reduced TOI as a role player is just a nice way of saying "You've slowed down too much."

I've always loved Shanny, when we signed him I was thrilled. That being said, I think the team needs to move on.

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09-09-2008, 01:09 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
I hear ya , but how many Rangers last year scored more goals than Shanahan?

Jagr and Drury

Renny has to be thinking about who is going to score goals on this team. Naslund and Zherdev should help, Dawes and Prucha perhaps as well. But the lack of finish is what killed the Rangers season in most losses.

Shanny was in the top 3 of finishers last season. I think that gets him another shot. Certainly invited to camp
Here is the thing though bodhisattva, look at the enivronment Shanny was allowed to operate in. I posted this in the other shanny thread.......

Shanny's Environment:
-allowed to sit in the slot on our first PP unit and wait for the other 4 players on the ice to do all the work and set him up for a slapshot which 9 times out of 10 ends up comfortably in the goalies chest
-allowed to avoid any high contact areas including along the boards and in front of the net
-never has to forecheck under any circumstance
-never responsible for carrying the puck into the offensive zone, allowed to just dump the puck in and let the other forwards chase it
-allowed to make sloppy backhanded passes towards the middle of the ice without any fear of discipline from Tom Renney in the form of a benching or less ice time
-allowed to play with our best playmaking forward in Gomez for every single even strength shift



That is about as ideal an environment a player can be allowed to operate in. So if the question is can someone else like Naslund, Zherdev, Prucha, Dawes or Cally score 20 goals if they are allowed to operate in that environment, I would say yes.


Take a look at our roster. The one thing we have plenty of is 3rd liners. As soon as things get dicey and the offense falls into a slump Renney is gonna look to Shanny. The idea of Shanny playing the wing on Gomez's line again makes me physically ill.

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09-09-2008, 01:11 PM
  #47
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PLEASE NO!!!

how can people here want to bring shanahan back....pretty much everyone was saying how shanahan had lost It......he lost his speed nad wouldnt go into any high-contact areas and was dragging his linemates down....and now people want him back....yes, the guy can score in the shootout....but besides that he has nothing left....i say 3rd line at most but then i look and there are young guys who should be playing there and are better overall players than shanahan is at this point in his career.....

you would rather have shanahan playing over a guy like callahan, korpikoski, or fritsche?.......i know i dont....i saw what the team looked like when the team was based around the slow moving jagr and shanahan and it wasnt pretty.....the team is now even faster and based on speed and we all want to bring back a player who cant even keep up with jason strudwick.....sad

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09-09-2008, 01:13 PM
  #48
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Here is the thing though bodhisattva, look at the enivronment Shanny was allowed to operate in. I posted this in the other shanny thread.......

Shanny's Environment:
-allowed to sit in the slot on our first PP unit and wait for the other 4 players on the ice to do all the work and set him up for a slapshot which 9 times out of 10 ends up comfortably in the goalies chest
-allowed to avoid any high contact areas including along the boards and in front of the net
-never has to forecheck under any circumstance
-never responsible for carrying the puck into the offensive zone, allowed to just dump the puck in and let the other forwards chase it
-allowed to make sloppy backhanded passes towards the middle of the ice without any fear of discipline from Tom Renney in the form of a benching or less ice time
-allowed to play with our best playmaking forward in Gomez for every single even strength shift



That is about as ideal an environment a player can be allowed to operate in. So if the question is can someone else like Naslund, Zherdev, Prucha, Dawes or Cally score 20 goals if they are allowed to operate in that environment, I would say yes.


Take a look at our roster. The one thing we have plenty of is 3rd liners. As soon as things get dicey and the offense falls into a slump Renney is gonna look to Shanny. The idea of Shanny playing the wing on Gomez's line again makes me physically ill.
exactly the way i saw it last season as well....put a player like callahan on gomez's wing this season and see how many goals he scores....i can almost guarentee 20 goals from him just by getting 20 mins a night and playing 1st pp and even strength with gomez

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09-09-2008, 01:29 PM
  #49
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Ummm....no they are not. Not unless you don't mind not making the playoffs for another 6 years.

Tell me one kid who is ready to make the jump and I will make a case as to why they aren't.
Right - 'cause Shanny in the top 6 is a recipe for regular playoff attendence. Did you watch him in the second half last year? (Or the second half in the year prior, for that matter?)

We could play the "tell me one kid who is ready to make the jump and I will make a case as to why they aren't" game with EVERY player who EVER played the game. Until they've gone out and scored 25-30 goals, well... they haven't. But if you want to move forward, you have to give them the opportunity to sink or swim.

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09-09-2008, 01:31 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by TomLaidlaw View Post
Here is the thing though bodhisattva, look at the enivronment Shanny was allowed to operate in. I posted this in the other shanny thread.......

Shanny's Environment:
-allowed to sit in the slot on our first PP unit and wait for the other 4 players on the ice to do all the work and set him up for a slapshot which 9 times out of 10 ends up comfortably in the goalies chest
-allowed to avoid any high contact areas including along the boards and in front of the net
-never has to forecheck under any circumstance
-never responsible for carrying the puck into the offensive zone, allowed to just dump the puck in and let the other forwards chase it
-allowed to make sloppy backhanded passes towards the middle of the ice without any fear of discipline from Tom Renney in the form of a benching or less ice time
-allowed to play with our best playmaking forward in Gomez for every single even strength shift



That is about as ideal an environment a player can be allowed to operate in. So if the question is can someone else like Naslund, Zherdev, Prucha, Dawes or Cally score 20 goals if they are allowed to operate in that environment, I would say yes.


Take a look at our roster. The one thing we have plenty of is 3rd liners. As soon as things get dicey and the offense falls into a slump Renney is gonna look to Shanny. The idea of Shanny playing the wing on Gomez's line again makes me physically ill.
The thing is, Tom, that Shanny did those things because he was playing on a knee that isn't 100% healthy, and the Rangers didn't really have much in the way of other options. Maybe I'm just searching for reasons to be optimistic about this (the truth is that if I were running the team I don't think I'd try to bring him back), but I believe that the coaching staff is smart enough to know when a player is hurting the team and when to try a different route.

I also think that both sides will be smart enough to see whether or not Shanny is fully healed from the knee injury that was bothering so much in the second half last year. If he's not, I don't think you'll see him on the ice all that much.

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