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Old
09-10-2008, 02:57 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
no offense to AA, but why is he over Sangs?
closer to reaching his potential?.....i dont honestly know

he did have a very good 1st season in hartford as the youngest player in the entire league and has great size for his age.....

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09-10-2008, 03:34 PM
  #27
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Here the two lists side by side.
HF List - HF Boards List - HF's list Difference w/ HF Board's List

1. Alexei Cherepanov #1 -- Alexei Cherepanov (F) (0)
2. Artem Anisimov #2 -- Bobby Sanguinetti (D) (-1)
3. Bobby Sanguinetti #3 -- Artem Anisimov (F) (+1)
4. Michael Del Zotto #4 -- Lauri Korpikoski (F) (-1)
5. Lauri Korpikoski #5 -- Michael Del Zotto (D) (+1)
6. Evgeny Grachev #6 -- Evgeny Grachev (F) (0)
7. Tomas Zaborsky #7 -- Michael Sauer (D) (+9)
8. Dane Byers #8 -- Derek Stepan (F) (+1)
9. Carl Hagelin #9 -- Dane Byers (F) (+4)
10. Michael Sauer #10 - Ryan Hillier (F) (-3)
11. Derek Stepan #11 - Corey Potter (D) (-3)
12. Miika Wiikman #12 - Greg Moore (F) (+3)
13. Matt Zaba #13 - Carl Hagelin (F) N/A
14. Ryan Hillier #14 - Brodie Dupont (F) (-4)
15. Dale Weise #15 - Miika Wiikman (G) N/A
16. Greg Moore #16 - Tomas Zaborsky (F) (-4)
17. Max Campbell #17 - Tom Pyatt (F) (+3~)
18. Corey Potter #18 - Mitch Gaulton (D) (-7)
19. Brodie Dupont #19 - Tomas Kundratek (D) (-5)
20. David Skokan #20 - David Kveton (F),#20 - Max Campbell (F),#20 - David Skokan (F)

The top 6 are both the same so I don't really care about order because they are all potentially good-great players.

Differences...
HF - Matt Zaba, Dale Weise, Max Campbell
HFBoards - Mike Gaulton, Tomas Kundratek, Tom Pyatt

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Old
09-10-2008, 04:16 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n8 View Post
Here the two lists side by side.
HF List - HF Boards List - HF's list Difference w/ HF Board's List

1. Alexei Cherepanov #1 -- Alexei Cherepanov (F) (0)
2. Artem Anisimov #2 -- Bobby Sanguinetti (D) (-1)
3. Bobby Sanguinetti #3 -- Artem Anisimov (F) (+1)
4. Michael Del Zotto #4 -- Lauri Korpikoski (F) (-1)
5. Lauri Korpikoski #5 -- Michael Del Zotto (D) (+1)
6. Evgeny Grachev #6 -- Evgeny Grachev (F) (0)
7. Tomas Zaborsky #7 -- Michael Sauer (D) (+9)
8. Dane Byers #8 -- Derek Stepan (F) (+1)
9. Carl Hagelin #9 -- Dane Byers (F) (+4)
10. Michael Sauer #10 - Ryan Hillier (F) (-3)
11. Derek Stepan #11 - Corey Potter (D) (-3)
12. Miika Wiikman #12 - Greg Moore (F) (+3)
13. Matt Zaba #13 - Carl Hagelin (F) N/A
14. Ryan Hillier #14 - Brodie Dupont (F) (-4)
15. Dale Weise #15 - Miika Wiikman (G) N/A
16. Greg Moore #16 - Tomas Zaborsky (F) (-4)
17. Max Campbell #17 - Tom Pyatt (F) (+3~)
18. Corey Potter #18 - Mitch Gaulton (D) (-7)
19. Brodie Dupont #19 - Tomas Kundratek (D) (-5)
20. David Skokan #20 - David Kveton (F),#20 - Max Campbell (F),#20 - David Skokan (F)

The top 6 are both the same so I don't really care about order because they are all potentially good-great players.

Differences...
HF - Matt Zaba, Dale Weise, Max Campbell
HFBoards - Mike Gaulton, Tomas Kundratek, Tom Pyatt
Thanks for putting that together.

Zaborsky is too high, though if I remember correctly, I started voting for him around 12. I don't have as much of a problem with his placement as a lot of people inevitably will.

I was also voting for Hagelin earlier than most, so again, I don't have an issue with him being as high as he is on the list.

Sauer I do agree is a little low. He still looks like a second pairing defenseman to me, as long as he can stay reasonably healthy. The other defenseman-- Potter-- I've never been that high on. I see him more of a bottom pairing/number 7 defenseman than anything else.

Zaba intrigues me... Leslie isn't the first person to praise his skills, so I'll definitely be watching him closely this upcoming season.

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Old
09-10-2008, 04:24 PM
  #29
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I hope Leslie is right on Zaborsky. I wouldn't have him nearly as high though. He was a point a game player in the OHL last year--which isn't bad but he was also overaged and he's not a big or an agressive physical player. I don't think there is any way for us to really have a good idea about him as a real prospect until he's played at least a months worth of AHL games. And although she makes a good case for the kind of player Weise might become there is no way in my mind that he should be ahead of Brodie Dupont. Potter should be higher IMO as well.

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09-10-2008, 04:40 PM
  #30
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Leslie, first I wante to thank you for the work you are dooing! Its very admireble, and your reports from the camps are state of the art!

Here are some thoughts on your comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie Treff View Post
Just some thoughts on how I did this. First I went by ranking--so a guy ranked 6.0B (like Moore), can't be higher than a guy like Zaborsky, who is rated 7.0C (at least not when there is a 6.5 ranking in between). This is ranked based upon potential and likelihood of reaching that potential.
This is the only thing I really don't agree with. Here is my thinking -- I see 2 guys who miss things in their game. And from my experience -- its just as common that a complete stiff finds a scoring touch; as it is that a kid with a scoring touch finds a overall game. Atleast these days. In both cases; it basically only happends once in a bluemoon. So what we are looking at most likely is players with pure depth potential; and in that regard I don't think Zabrosky really got any potential while Moore atleast got some.

Like there is a cliché that you are either born with a nose for the net, or not. But these days with the pressure beeing so high all over the ice, and with teams beeing so organized -- what seems to be hard is getting chances; not dooing something with the chances you do get.

Quote:
Pyatt is left off this year, because his first year's competition against older players was poor (to be kind). He then looked no better at development camp. When I spoke to Tom Renney about it, regarding what Pyatt can do to get better, he had no specific things to say. He is stronger; he is getting the best use of his size. It just does not look hopeful. Now, could I be wrong? Certainly, but right now there are too many prospects ahead of him for Pyatt to make the list.
Truth to be told, I basically didn't see anything of Pyatt last season at all. But I am defenitly suprised by this. I saw allot of him in the WJC's prior to him turning pro and he certainly had some potential.

Objectivly, its not that suprising that he have a slow first season as a pro -- but if he can't take another step this year its very dissapointing.

Quote:
As for Zaborsky. There was never a question that he had some excellent offensive skills. He has greatly improved his responsibility defensively, and really showed quite a bit both in the AHL at the end of last year and at development camp. The next few weeks will be very important to see where he is emotionally, but his potential is definitely top 10.
I hope I am wrong on Zabrosky; but I seriously don't think he got any offensive potential. I can't see any aspect of his game that stands out. Like he got a good nose for the net and a solid shot; but the guys he needs to be compared to are Cherepanov, Anisimov and Korpikoski. All 3 got some upside, and some downside -- none are really a lock to make the NHL in the end. Where does Zabrosky rank in that competition? Miles behind thoose 3 IMO.

Quote:
Sauer. I very much like him and I don't think he had a bad rookie season, but he has another serious injury standing in his way. This has been a pattern for him over the years and if a player is not resilient, the likelihood of him fulfilling his potential is lessened greatly.

Quote:
For Hagelin, see BrooklynRangersFan's post right above.
I am actually a little dissapointed in Hagelin. I don't know, but he is very light for a 3rd or 4th line and don't see the ice well enough to be a top 2 line player. To me he is kind of in the Pyatt mold; but Pyatt is a better checker.

In the end I don't really think we got the same depth now that we had a while ago.

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Old
09-10-2008, 04:48 PM
  #31
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im kinda surprised kundratek isnt on the HF list...the kid is pretty much full grown, is physical and is already in NA.....i like what im seeing from him so far

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Old
09-10-2008, 05:21 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
In the end I don't really think we got the same depth now that we had a while ago.
Ola, how many times have you seen Hagelin play?

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09-10-2008, 06:15 PM
  #33
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Hhahaha there ya go you Zaborsky haters, he's ranked #7 and he didn't even crack our top 20. I told you guys we had him wayyyy too low. He is one of a few prospects we have that doesn't project to 3rd/4th liner. And Ola, I have no idea why you feel he has no potential, he has had good showings in Traverse City and like Leslie said didn't look too bad at the end of last year in the AHL. For what round he was taken in I think that pick has been good up to this point. I really can't wait to see how his first year pro goes.

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Old
09-11-2008, 01:55 PM
  #34
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I've only seen Hagelin in one WJC's, 6-7 games.

He is a good hockeyplayer -- but but. A little thin, and a little thin in quite many aspects.

Like he isn't that talented, and he isn't that good of a fit for any "typical" NHL role -- then its really tough. I think its close -- but I think Pyatt is a tad better. Like stronger and more aggressive -- and pretty even in the other aspects. Hagelin might be a bit better offensivly -- but Hagelin at the same time way way beyond guys like Cherepanov offensivly.

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Old
09-11-2008, 02:05 PM
  #35
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Zaba this high... again... is absurd.

Someone wake me when he accomplishes something other than in the ECHL.


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Old
09-11-2008, 04:02 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundqvist=Vezina View Post
I have only seen Hagelin a few times, but I haven't seen or read anything that leads me to agree with this.
hagelin has great potential, he's just a great all-around player who put up pretty good points with very limited ice time. he will get more time as a sophomore this year and he will undoubtedly score 40 points, which is very good at that level. by the time he graduates, he will be a two-way force on the rangers. he is a complete package. he is fast, good shot, good defense, pretty physical, etc., etc. and he is only 19.


Last edited by Cherepanisimov: 09-11-2008 at 04:11 PM.
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Old
09-11-2008, 04:06 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherepanisimov View Post
hagelin has great potential, he's just a great all-around player who put up pretty good points with very limited ice time. he will get more time as a sophomore this year and he will undoubtedly score 40 points, which is very good at that level. by the time he graduates, he will be a two-way force on the rangers. he is a complete package. he is fast, good shot, good defense, etc., etc. and he is only 19.
thats how i see him as well....someone more in the drury/callahan mold than anything else but IMO he will be a pretty good nhl player, if he keeps getting better

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09-11-2008, 04:17 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
thats how i see him as well....someone more in the drury/callahan mold than anything else but IMO he will be a pretty good nhl player, if he keeps getting better
drury is actually a good comparison. hillier is more of a callahan than hags. i think if he plays like he did in the frozen four throughout next season and keeps improving, he will be a force in the nhl. and he will be almost fully developed by the time drury's contract expires, too, so has would be an ideal, cheap replacement.

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Old
09-11-2008, 05:08 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Hhahaha there ya go you Zaborsky haters, he's ranked #7 and he didn't even crack our top 20. I told you guys we had him wayyyy too low. He is one of a few prospects we have that doesn't project to 3rd/4th liner. And Ola, I have no idea why you feel he has no potential, he has had good showings in Traverse City and like Leslie said didn't look too bad at the end of last year in the AHL. For what round he was taken in I think that pick has been good up to this point. I really can't wait to see how his first year pro goes.
uh, what? he's 16th on our list.

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09-11-2008, 06:25 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n8 View Post
uh, what? he's 16th on our list.
I missed his name on our list, hey it was late. Anyway 16 isn't close to 7. If Zaborsky developes and can become a player he def makes Prucha expendable.

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Old
10-06-2008, 04:24 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Hhahaha there ya go you Zaborsky haters, he's ranked #7 and he didn't even crack our top 20. I told you guys we had him wayyyy too low. He is one of a few prospects we have that doesn't project to 3rd/4th liner. And Ola, I have no idea why you feel he has no potential, he has had good showings in Traverse City and like Leslie said didn't look too bad at the end of last year in the AHL. For what round he was taken in I think that pick has been good up to this point. I really can't wait to see how his first year pro goes.
Zabrosky now got zero goals in the traverse tournament, scrimmages in the NHL camp and AHL preseason games against poor oponents -- and have been sent down to Charlotte.

The reason I feel he don't got any potential is because he isn't a talented hockeyplayer -- and he have never performed well at any level in his career.

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10-06-2008, 04:30 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Zabrosky now got zero goals in the traverse tournament, scrimmages in the NHL camp and AHL preseason games against poor oponents -- and have been sent down to Charlotte.

The reason I feel he don't got any potential is because he isn't a talented hockeyplayer -- and he have never performed well at any level in his career.
Agreed completely.

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10-06-2008, 05:35 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Zabrosky now got zero goals in the traverse tournament, scrimmages in the NHL camp and AHL preseason games against poor oponents -- and have been sent down to Charlotte.

The reason I feel he don't got any potential is because he isn't a talented hockeyplayer -- and he have never performed well at any level in his career.
Wow talk about writing a guy off before he even gets started. Girardi was in Charlotte at a time too wasn't he? Not the end of the world, esp at his age. Lets see how he does down there before we take a crap on his future. No one ever expected him to come out of Jr's and light everything up. Some guys take longer, and it's obvious his overall game needs work, isn't that what we do here now? Develope our young guys?

Prospects we should be looking to dump: Dupont, Jessiman, Moore, and Sauer.
Sauer- Can't stay healthy to save his life, this has been an issue since he was drafted. What a disapointing prospect.

Dupont- We have plenty of guys like this, I don't see him ever cracking NYR. There is just nothing great about him.

Jessiman- If he didn't make it this year he's not going to, send him to a team that will atleast give him the chance.

Moore- Same as Jessiman

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Old
10-06-2008, 05:38 PM
  #44
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Stepan should be higher.

And Wiikman should be MUCH higher. He is an NHL goaltender.

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10-06-2008, 05:52 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Wow talk about writing a guy off before he even gets started. Girardi was in Charlotte at a time too wasn't he? Not the end of the world, esp at his age. Lets see how he does down there before we take a crap on his future. No one ever expected him to come out of Jr's and light everything up. Some guys take longer, and it's obvious his overall game needs work, isn't that what we do here now? Develope our young guys?
I am not crapping on him, I've seen him play and he isn't even remotely good enough to play in the NHL, ever.

I've written it several times and on each occasion people have called me out for it.

We got plenty of kids who get a shot, and I am just saying that Z isn't one of them. Neither is Carl Hagelin really... (but he could atleast grow some)

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10-06-2008, 06:05 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I am not crapping on him, I've seen him play and he isn't even remotely good enough to play in the NHL, ever.

I've written it several times and on each occasion people have called me out for it.

We got plenty of kids who get a shot, and I am just saying that Z isn't one of them. Neither is Carl Hagelin really... (but he could atleast grow some)
I'm not calling you out for it, I just find it strange you don't feel he can improve the other aspects of his game after not even a quater season into his pro career. You don't think he is good enough to play in the NHL EVER. Thats fine, thats your opinion. I'm just saying it's not the popular one. Jan Mursak who was his team mate said nice things about him I remember, and our scouts obviously like him, he seems like a Rockstrom pick. Obviously management likes him since they gave him the ELC. I just think you see his size and get turned off.

His numbers really improved in the OHL last year 70 points from 43. I see improvement for sure. 2 gp for the Pack, yean no goals but one assist. This to me isn't that bad for a guy his age and size. Also he had a great traverse city tourny two years ago, not so great this year though.

Again i'm hopiing for a Prucha type player to happen with Zaborsky.

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10-06-2008, 07:27 PM
  #47
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Dale Weise is pimp.

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10-07-2008, 12:32 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Zabrosky now got zero goals in the traverse tournament, scrimmages in the NHL camp and AHL preseason games against poor oponents -- and have been sent down to Charlotte.

The reason I feel he don't got any potential is because he isn't a talented hockeyplayer -- and he have never performed well at any level in his career.
(cough)ZabORsky(cough)


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Old
10-08-2008, 09:36 AM
  #49
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Zaborsky is a very talented hockey player. His problem right now is in his head, not with his skills. He has been sent to Charlotte to get confidence and start playing with consistent effort and intensity every game.

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Old
10-08-2008, 10:42 AM
  #50
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Yes I'd put Zherdev in the top 5!

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