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Kovalchuk and Klee for Michalek, Couture, McLaren, Lukowich

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09-13-2008, 05:04 AM
  #1
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Kovalchuk and Klee for Michalek, Couture, McLaren, Lukowich

Let's pull our heads out of the sand and face the harsh reality that Atlanta is in no position to try and keep Kovalchuk in two years when he becomes UFA. They have only one long-term contract, the great Ron Hainsey. Aside from Kovalchuk, Bryan Little is the only forward that figures into the Thrashers longterm plans and is potentially a good player. Atlanta is going to have to trade him eventually, since the ineptitude of their GM pretty much guarantees that they won't be making the kind of progress it will take to keep Kovalchuk. If they trade him now they can get a lot more value than trading him a year from now or at the trade deadline in two years.

Michalek is under contract for SIX years at 4.33M, a great deal for Atlanta because they won't have to worry about him leaving for free agency while they stockpile top 5 picks for the next two or three years. Plus they are getting Couture who has not even started his entry level contract yet, so they can keep him in the franchise for a long time like Michalek. McLaren is in the deal just to get the Sharks under the cap after taking on Kovalchuk's salary, and Lukowich and Klee are added to give the Sharks ~300K more space, enough to sign a cheap 7th defenseman and stay under the cap.

Obviously San Jose likes the deal because Kovalchuk playing with Thornton will be a devastating force, wreaking havoc against the competition and surpassing Detroit as the most dangerous offense in the West.

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09-13-2008, 05:19 AM
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they can still get more than that.

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09-13-2008, 05:21 AM
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Other teams would offer up much more, this is basically Michalek and Couture, McLaren and Lukowich mean nothing they are only in the deal for the Sharks salary reasons. Teams will give more than just Michalek and Couture for 2 seasons of Kovy.

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09-13-2008, 05:54 AM
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What will teams give? I haven't seen any other Kovalchuk proposals.

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09-13-2008, 06:05 AM
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If he was really available I would part with any of Cherapanov, Prucha, Sanguinetti, Dawes, Korpikoski, or Del Zotto to make it happen. 1st rounder of course involved also.

Cherry + Sangs + Dawes + 1st 4 Kovy?

I don't think it would cost that much though cause ATL is terrible at trading, maybe take out Daws add a 2nd or 3rd?

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09-13-2008, 06:11 AM
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Quantity vs Quality
those players do not add up to Kovey

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09-13-2008, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
Let's pull our heads out of the sand and face the harsh reality that Atlanta is in no position to try and keep Kovalchuk in two years when he becomes UFA. They have only one long-term contract, the great Ron Hainsey. Aside from Kovalchuk, Bryan Little is the only forward that figures into the Thrashers longterm plans and is potentially a good player.
Lets just start here. The Thrashers have:

Armstrong and Christensen who will be RFA's at the end of their current deals, I would say they figure into the Thrashers future plans.
Machacek, Esposito, Lavallee, Stuart, Enlund, and Holtzapfel among other F's in the farm that probably figure into the Thrashers future plans.

With Bogosian, Enstrom, Valabik along with Kulda, Postma, Zubarev on the farm they have one of the better young defensive cores in the NHL.

With Lehtonen, Pavelec, and Kangas, perhaps the best group of young goaltenders in the NHL.

To make it seem that all the Thrashers have is Kovalchuk, Hainsey, and Little is absurd. To use that as an excuse to get Kovalchuk for a mediocre proposal is equally so.

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09-13-2008, 08:58 AM
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Ottawa would try and build something around Vermette since he's our only top-6 not signed long term and Atlanta would need a forward coming back. I don't know who else they could include, but I do hear that Atlanta needs experienced defensemen, so....


Vermette + Volchenkov + prospect + 2 1sts I think would get it done, though Thrasher fans will immediately say that's too little and say he's worth 3 Heatleys

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09-13-2008, 09:02 AM
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How about this proposal between Atlanta and San Jose involving Kovalchuk:

Logan Couture + Patrick Marleau + Kyle Mclaren + Devin Setoguchi + 2009 2nd round pick to Atlanta for Ilya Kovalchuk.

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09-13-2008, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
How about this proposal between Atlanta and San Jose involving Kovalchuk:

Logan Couture + Patrick Marleau + Kyle Mclaren + Devin Setoguchi + 2009 2nd round pick to Atlanta for Ilya Kovalchuk.
Sharks give up way too much. Drop McLaren and Setoguchi from the deal, and make that 2nd a 1st in 2010 and it looks solid.

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09-13-2008, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
How about this proposal between Atlanta and San Jose involving Kovalchuk:

Logan Couture + Patrick Marleau + Kyle Mclaren + Devin Setoguchi + 2009 2nd round pick to Atlanta for Ilya Kovalchuk.
Is the difference from Marlau to Kovalchuck really that big to include 2 top prospects from the sharks?

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09-13-2008, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruinsfan1 View Post
Is the difference from Marlau to Kovalchuck really that big to include 2 top prospects from the sharks?
Yes.

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Old
09-13-2008, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by andyGILL View Post
Yes.
Agreed.

Marleau: GP-78, G-19, A-28, P-48
Kovalchuk: GP-79, G-52, A-35, P-87

i don't think Kovy had 39 points in that one game difference. The point differntial between the two is basically the number 2 scorer for the Islanders. SJ needs to add a lot more.

But unless your sending back a franchise player to ATL they don't dump theres. He's only 25 and will proably stay in ATL until hes 39 and then the Rangers will sign him for 12 mil a season for 3 years.

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09-13-2008, 09:46 AM
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I would give Higgins+ Pacioretty+ McDonagh+Halak for Kovalchuk.

Atlanta need to rebuild, they can this way.

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09-13-2008, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isles06 View Post
Agreed.

Marleau: GP-78, G-19, A-28, P-48
Kovalchuk: GP-79, G-52, A-35, P-87

i don't think Kovy had 39 points in that one game difference. The point differntial between the two is basically the number 2 scorer for the Islanders. SJ needs to add a lot more.

But unless your sending back a franchise player to ATL they don't dump theres. He's only 25 and will proably stay in ATL until hes 39 and then the Rangers will sign him for 12 mil a season for 3 years.
Sure about that? People say that all the time about players, but it's not always true. Look at Jokinen. There is no way San Jose is giving up that much. Do you really think Doug Wilson would do this deal? Exactly.

Also, Marleau is at least a 70+ point player in a good year. In a good year for both, the difference is points is about 15 points, not 40.

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09-13-2008, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isles06 View Post
Agreed.

Marleau: GP-78, G-19, A-28, P-48
Kovalchuk: GP-79, G-52, A-35, P-87

i don't think Kovy had 39 points in that one game difference. The point differntial between the two is basically the number 2 scorer for the Islanders. SJ needs to add a lot more.

But unless your sending back a franchise player to ATL they don't dump theres. He's only 25 and will proably stay in ATL until hes 39 and then the Rangers will sign him for 12 mil a season for 3 years.
Good idea. Lets go off stats for one season. Marleau obviously isn't as good as Kovalchuck. No one said he is. But is he really worth the Sharks top 2 prospects along with Marleau? I don't think so.

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09-13-2008, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SocioJoeCorvo View Post
Ottawa would try and build something around Vermette since he's our only top-6 not signed long term and Atlanta would need a forward coming back. I don't know who else they could include, but I do hear that Atlanta needs experienced defensemen, so....


Vermette + Volchenkov + prospect + 2 1sts I think would get it done, though Thrasher fans will immediately say that's too little and say he's worth 3 Heatleys
That is too little. Ottawa has to be willing to give up either Heatley or Spezza to make Atlanta consider trading Kovy. Of course, if Ottawa is giving up either one, they have to get more then Kovy.

Kovy+Lehotonen+2nd for Spezza+Ottawa backup goaltender

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09-13-2008, 09:51 AM
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That is too little. Ottawa has to be willing to give up either Heatley or Spezza to make Atlanta consider trading Kovy. Of course, if Ottawa is giving up either one, they have to get more then Kovy.

Kovy+Lehotonen+2nd for Spezza+Ottawa backup goaltender
Uh, just in my own opinion, yours is way more lopsided than mine was. Kovy AND Kari? Ottawa does this in less than a heartbeat

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09-13-2008, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
Let's pull our heads out of the sand and face the harsh reality that Atlanta is in no position to try and keep Kovalchuk in two years when he becomes UFA. They have only one long-term contract, the great Ron Hainsey. Aside from Kovalchuk, Bryan Little is the only forward that figures into the Thrashers longterm plans and is potentially a good player. Atlanta is going to have to trade him eventually, since the ineptitude of their GM pretty much guarantees that they won't be making the kind of progress it will take to keep Kovalchuk. If they trade him now they can get a lot more value than trading him a year from now or at the trade deadline in two years.

Michalek is under contract for SIX years at 4.33M, a great deal for Atlanta because they won't have to worry about him leaving for free agency while they stockpile top 5 picks for the next two or three years. Plus they are getting Couture who has not even started his entry level contract yet, so they can keep him in the franchise for a long time like Michalek. McLaren is in the deal just to get the Sharks under the cap after taking on Kovalchuk's salary, and Lukowich and Klee are added to give the Sharks ~300K more space, enough to sign a cheap 7th defenseman and stay under the cap.

Obviously San Jose likes the deal because Kovalchuk playing with Thornton will be a devastating force, wreaking havoc against the competition and surpassing Detroit as the most dangerous offense in the West.
LOLOLOLOLOL

You'll have to try harder.

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Old
09-13-2008, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by MONACOBLUE View Post
Sure about that? People say that all the time about players, but it's not always true. Look at Jokinen. There is no way San Jose is giving up that much. Do you really think Doug Wilson would do this deal? Exactly.

Also, Marleau is at least a 70+ point player in a good year. In a good year for both, the difference is points is about 15 points, not 40.
A good year for Kovalchuk is around 100+ points, not 85. Not to mention around 50 goals, compared to 30 goals and 80 points for Marleau.

Plus four year age gap, the poor season Marleau just had, I don't think at this moment in time their values are close.

If I'm Atlanta I'd keep Kovalchuk and not fall into Florida's pattern of trading stars and being mediocre every year. But if Kovalchuk were to be moved to SJS here's my shot:

To SJS; Ilya Kovalchuk
To ATL; Milan Michalek, Devin Setoguchi, & Logan Couture. (Plus a McLaren or Lukowich salary)

This really puts SJ in a win now situation.

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09-13-2008, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SocioJoeCorvo View Post
Uh, just in my own opinion, yours is way more lopsided than mine was. Kovy AND Kari? Ottawa does this in less than a heartbeat
Kari is not as good as people claim he is. He could be a good starter. But Atlanta also has another potential starting goaltender. Plus Spezza, in my eyes, is better player then Kovy.

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09-13-2008, 10:05 AM
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This would be a good trade if it ever worked

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09-13-2008, 10:06 AM
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Other than (at present) getting below the cap, the Sharks have pretty much addressed their needs for the upcoming season.

With all the trades this year (with picks and prospects heading out the door), I don't see the Sharks trading away a key cog like Michalek, nor a potential future captain in Couture. (I haven't seen enough of Lukowich to know his long term potential with the team. McLaren is healthy, unless you meant Frazer not Kyle?)

I do not see the Sharks doing this deal for the simple fact that it makes them weaker (overall). Too much loss of present and future value.

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09-13-2008, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
A good year for Kovalchuk is around 100+ points, not 85. Not to mention around 50 goals, compared to 30 goals and 80 points for Marleau.

Plus four year age gap, the poor season Marleau just had, I don't think at this moment in time their values are close.

If I'm Atlanta I'd keep Kovalchuk and not fall into Florida's pattern of trading stars and being mediocre every year. But if Kovalchuk were to be moved to SJS here's my shot:

To SJS; Ilya Kovalchuk
To ATL; Milan Michalek, Devin Setoguchi, & Logan Couture. (Plus a McLaren or Lukowich salary)

This really puts SJ in a win now situation.
I should've phrased it better. 70+ points is an average season for Marleau. A good season would be around 85 points. Similarly, 100 points is a good season for Kovalchuk.

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09-13-2008, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
Let's pull our heads out of the sand and face the harsh reality that Atlanta is in no position to try and keep Kovalchuk in two years when he becomes UFA. They have only one long-term contract, the great Ron Hainsey. Aside from Kovalchuk, Bryan Little is the only forward that figures into the Thrashers longterm plans and is potentially a good player. Atlanta is going to have to trade him eventually, since the ineptitude of their GM pretty much guarantees that they won't be making the kind of progress it will take to keep Kovalchuk. If they trade him now they can get a lot more value than trading him a year from now or at the trade deadline in two years.

Michalek is under contract for SIX years at 4.33M, a great deal for Atlanta because they won't have to worry about him leaving for free agency while they stockpile top 5 picks for the next two or three years. Plus they are getting Couture who has not even started his entry level contract yet, so they can keep him in the franchise for a long time like Michalek. McLaren is in the deal just to get the Sharks under the cap after taking on Kovalchuk's salary, and Lukowich and Klee are added to give the Sharks ~300K more space, enough to sign a cheap 7th defenseman and stay under the cap.

Obviously San Jose likes the deal because Kovalchuk playing with Thornton will be a devastating force, wreaking havoc against the competition and surpassing Detroit as the most dangerous offense in the West.
I'm a Sharks fan and I think Atlanta gets ripped in that deal. Couture is no more than a decent prospect right now - he's not the second coming of Sid Crosby. Kovalchuk with an elite playmaker like Thornton would be mind boggling - we'd have to give up far, far more, not least because nobody wants McLaren or Lukowich.

If San Jose managed this deal, Atlanta should forfeit their franchise.

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