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Old
09-12-2008, 10:33 PM
  #1
Doc Hock
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Salary Cap and Trade Possibilities

We now have 24 players including Chipper and we have just over a million in cap space. Not enough to absorb short term injuries which will happen plus not enough room to make a trade deadline deal.

So more things are about to happen.

I'm going to post my line up more for salary and trades than anything else but feel free to comment if you like:

Tanguay Plekanec Kovalev

A. Kots Koivu S. Kots

Higgins Lang Latts

Lappy Chipper BGL

D'Agostini Kostopoulos


Markov Komi

Hamrlik Georges

Bouillon O'Byrne

Brisebois


Price

Halak

This means that Begin and Dandy are both out, no surprise. If BG trades them then our cap space rises to just over $3.43 million which is about where he should start the year. I can see LA and Atlanta and Colorado being interested but the return will be minimal say a 5th or 6th or even a 7th round pick. But that is today's hockey.

The lines are great...provides 3 attack lines, one hell of a fouth line to kick ass, and 2guys who really want to be in the line up. On D very solid with Brisebpois as a fill in, a 40 game kind of guy and it leaves room for my surprise callup which will be Webber formally of the Kitchener Rangers. Price and Halak will prove to be fantastic in net.

The only down side for Begin and Dandy is that the Habs will send them to Hamilton and eat salary rather than have them count against the cap. Once again the reality of today's NHL.

So just some thoughts and observations on a Friday night.

Hope everyone likes today's pick ups of Lang and Brisebois, but I'm sure there will be a few..

doc hock

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Old
09-12-2008, 10:52 PM
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As I think about it more and more, I am starting to like our team more and more.

Last year we tore up the league in a shocking 1 st place Est finish with only 1 line maybe 1.5 producing the points. Now we have 3 lines that can produce a boat load of points, and 1 line that can eat babies for breakfast and drink motor oil for lunch. We have a Balanced team and we are contenders, Sundin missed the boat, and Lang just hit the jack pot in what could be the best year of his career.

From going from 1 Go TO Line to having 3 Highly Offensive lines all filled with Talent and Tremendous scoring potential. Watch out Detroit, there's a new sheriff in town.

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Old
09-12-2008, 11:19 PM
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lotusland
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Lines this year

While I've been watching combos posted by so many others I'm wondering why no one wants to play Laroque with Higgins and Koivu or S. Kosty and Koivu. Either way a shooter, a small playmaker and a big protector who can play. I think this could be akiller line line like long ago when we had Fergy. Comments?

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Old
09-12-2008, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
While I've been watching combos posted by so many others I'm wondering why no one wants to play Laroque with Higgins and Koivu or S. Kosty and Koivu. Either way a shooter, a small playmaker and a big protector who can play. I think this could be akiller line line like long ago when we had Fergy. Comments?
Laraque isn't a total oaf but he doesn't have enough skill to warrant 15-20 minutes of ice time.

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Old
09-12-2008, 11:28 PM
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Less than 1 million to spend

Actually, I think we have less than 1 million on the cap to spend, Patrice Brisebois' salary is 750, 000 for the year with bonus performances of another 750, 000. So his cap is 1, 500, 000!

Something should be done and I suspect it will be hard to move Begin or Dandenault

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Old
09-12-2008, 11:32 PM
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Chomsky
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Originally Posted by Ryan_Habs_16 View Post
Actually, I think we have less than 1 million on the cap to spend, Patrice Brisebois' salary is 750, 000 for the year with bonus performances of another 750, 000. So his cap is 1, 500, 000!

Something should be done and I suspect it will be hard to move Begin or Dandenault
virtual cap hit 1,500,000 yes, but his bonus will count against the 2009-10 cap.

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Old
09-12-2008, 11:43 PM
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our team is done guys, gainey said it himself. We don't even need a trade deadline pickup, I bet you we will be one of the many teams to do nothing. I wouldn't shed a tear if Dandy is gone actually, we might deal him away just like Huet.

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09-13-2008, 12:19 AM
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1) we do have room for short term injury pickups... first off we cannot carry 24 players on the team that is not allowed... best case Dandenault out 1.8 miillion saved, worst case Chips to the minors 800k saved.

2) we can do injury callups if you call up Chips for example for 5 games, you do not absorb a 800k cap hit... but rather an 800k/82 * 5 cap hit... .its a lot smaller.

3) trade deadline pickups cost 1/4 of their yearly salary against the cap.

The approx 2mill we have in cap space is more than fine.

no worries.

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Old
09-13-2008, 12:20 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
1) we do have room for short term injury pickups... first off we cannot carry 24 players on the team that is not allowed... best case Dandenault out 1.8 miillion saved, worst case Chips to the minors 800k saved.

2) we can do injury callups if you call up Chips for example for 5 games, you do not absorb a 800k cap hit... but rather an 800k/82 * 5 cap hit... .its a lot smaller.

3) trade deadline pickups cost 1/4 of their yearly salary against the cap.

The approx 2mill we have in cap space is more than fine.

no worries.
Plus if we trade for a roster player that player replaces a roster player so there is more money saved there.

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Old
09-13-2008, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
virtual cap hit 1,500,000 yes, but his bonus will count against the 2009-10 cap.
No, that's not true...unless we exceed this year's cap and the CBA option gets picked up before long.

Right now, we are a shade over 2M on the cap for a 23 man roster (with Dandenault and without Chipchura counting). We're fine, there's nothing to panic about cap wise.

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Old
09-13-2008, 03:14 PM
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I'd love to see Begin, Dandy and Bouillon gone for Schneider. That would be pretty awesome.

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Old
09-13-2008, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
I'd love to see Begin, Dandy and Bouillon gone for Schneider. That would be pretty awesome.
Schneider or not, Bégin and Dandenault should be gone as we speak, that's 3 mil wasted in the pressbox, Kosto and Bouillon are next in line after that, we have depth on the farm now, we don't need a hole line of extra forwards who can't do much to start with

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Old
09-13-2008, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Schneider or not, Bégin and Dandenault should be gone as we speak, that's 3 mil wasted in the pressbox, Kosto and Bouillon are next in line after that, we have depth on the farm now, we don't need a hole line of extra forwards who can't do much to start with
UMMMM people get hurt during the year... and KOSTO is very valuable... infact I'd have him on the fourth line right now as it is (assuming Chips has to go to Hamilton).

You need Kosto and Begin... don't need Dandy.

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09-13-2008, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
UMMMM people get hurt during the year... and KOSTO is very valuable... infact I'd have him on the fourth line right now as it is (assuming Chips has to go to Hamilton).

You need Kosto and Begin... don't need Dandy.
we don't need them at all, IF an injurie accures, D'agostini, Lehoux, Stewart, Flynn and later Maxwell + Pacioretty will be able to temporarely play in the NHL. Right now we're wasting pressious cap money on pissed off players who will be in the pressbox 3 games out of 4. How come it's not like that in Detroit or Philly or Dallas or SanJose, we need to put our best forwards on the ice every game possible, not just for the sake of playing evreyone. I,m really sick of hearing that, if they don't bring enough to the table, then you get rid of them for picks, there's atleast 10 teams that could use a Bégin or a Kostopoulos

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Old
09-13-2008, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Schneider or not, Bégin and Dandenault should be gone as we speak, that's 3 mil wasted in the pressbox, Kosto and Bouillon are next in line after that, we have depth on the farm now, we don't need a hole line of extra forwards who can't do much to start with
All energy guys....getting rid of all of them is a dangerous proposition.

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Old
09-13-2008, 04:42 PM
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All energy guys....getting rid of all of them is a dangerous proposition.
not to mention that when he's healthy, bégin is a shot blocking and pk monster, also, the guy who puts guys like chara off his game when it really matters.

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Old
09-13-2008, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Schneider or not, Bégin and Dandenault should be gone as we speak, that's 3 mil wasted in the pressbox, Kosto and Bouillon are next in line after that, we have depth on the farm now, we don't need a hole line of extra forwards who can't do much to start with
Kosto is a warrior. You don't win playoff games without players like Kosto...

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Old
09-13-2008, 06:28 PM
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From going from 1 Go TO Line to having 3 Highly Offensive lines all filled with Talent and Tremendous scoring potential. Watch out Detroit, there's a new sheriff in town.
Aaaaaaaaaand cue the last place finish.

Or am I being too paranoid? It just seems like we're all counting our chickens before they hatch. It should be apparent to us all that things aren't always as they seem before the season starts; maybe we'll blow the expectations away, but maybe we'll fall short.

Still remaining optimistic, though cautious.

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Old
09-13-2008, 06:59 PM
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not to mention that when he's healthy, bégin is a shot blocking and pk monster, also, the guy who puts guys like chara off his game when it really matters.
Chipchura, Lappierre, Koivu, Higgins, Kovalev and Plekanec, that's 6 forwards that can play PK, more then enough

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Old
09-13-2008, 07:09 PM
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we have about 1 mm in cap room. I think Mr Gainey will stand pat

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Old
09-13-2008, 07:20 PM
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virtual cap hit 1,500,000 yes, but his bonus will count against the 2009-10 cap.
And he won't hit them unless he's a plays great, in which case who cares?

I don't know why people complain about bonuses.. especially as small as 750 K..

I mean.. one of two things happen;

1) The player hits his bonuses. This means that the player has had a very good season and was worth the extra bit of cash. You have to make room the following year for the extra cash.. but if it helped you have a very successful season, it's not a big deal.

2) The player misses his bonuses. This means the player was used as a reserve or did not play above expectations. But now there is no worries of clearing space to fit the cash the following season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post
we have about 1 mm in cap room. I think Mr Gainey will stand pat
Plus if we waive/demote Dandenault, we'll have about $2M in cap room.

Not too shabby.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 09-14-2008 at 12:10 AM.
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Old
09-14-2008, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post
we have about 1 mm in cap room. I think Mr Gainey will stand pat
We have 2 million in cap room.... we have just over 1mm if you count Chipchura.... but you can't really count him because the max roster size is 23.. and Chipchura is number 24.

So Dandenault out, Chips in.... means 2.8 million in cap space
Chips in Hamilton, Dandy on the team ... means about 2million

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
we don't need them at all, IF an injurie accures, D'agostini, Lehoux, Stewart, Flynn and later Maxwell + Pacioretty will be able to temporarely play in the NHL. Right now we're wasting pressious cap money on pissed off players who will be in the pressbox 3 games out of 4. How come it's not like that in Detroit or Philly or Dallas or SanJose, we need to put our best forwards on the ice every game possible, not just for the sake of playing evreyone. I,m really sick of hearing that, if they don't bring enough to the table, then you get rid of them for picks, there's atleast 10 teams that could use a Bégin or a Kostopoulos
Detroit, Philly, Dallas, SJ all have guys in their press box too.... I don't know where you get the fact that they don't have forwards in their pressbox who rotate in and out of the lineup. Every team in the NHL has guys like that. A guy like Aaron Downey was this type of player for Detroit. Dallas used Joel Lundqvist 26 years old for 55 games. Krys Barch 28 years old for 48.

Not all of our guys will play 82 games... you need some experience up there in the pressbox. Guys like Begin and Kosto know their role on the team and do it very well.

If you think Laraque is playing 80 games this year, you are misguided. It wont happen... I expect him to play 60 or so... Kostopolous will rotate in. Begin will rotate in to. Guys like Chipchura (if on the team); Latendresse and Lappierre will all take their spot in the pressbox.

The lineup is adjusted based on who is hot and cold... how the team is doing (shake things up).... and who the opponent is. Its a fact of life that a 13th forward for an NHL team will get 50-60 games.

Did you see Kostopolous, Begin, in the playoffs.... They were with Smolinski our best line at times. These type of warriors are needed on a team both for leadership and for the spark and energy they provide. There is no way you can convince me that we don't need either guy. I'd like to keep both, but i can understand an argument to get rid of one and replace him with a young kid. But there is no way we should be getting rid of both.

As far as Cap Space goes... you wouldn't save that much... Kosto;s cap hit is very small replacing him with a young kid would save you a couple hundred grand. For a team that is 2million under the Cap and who needs the veteran grittiness that Begin and Kostopolous provide this saving is peanuts. Its not worth it.

Your plan to get rid of these guys leaves the team seriously lacking in depth... our top 12 is good, but there is no experienced depth behind them

You have to work guys like D'agostini, Stewart etc into the lineup. If there is a long term injury and you expect them to play a key role in the team they are gonna make rookie mistakes and they are gonna have there struggles thats a fact. You can't go with all rookies underneath your top 12.... not if you plan on competing for the Cup. You can ease one rookie in if you get injuries... but we can't run the risk of 2-3 forwards being hurt at one time and having so many AHL guys filling their spots.

This is especially true in the playoffs.... The battles get harder, the wars harder to win, the injuries can pile up quickly (see 2006 Buffalo Sabres Defence).... If we get injuries in the playoffs i like knowing that our 13th and 14th forwards have significant NHL experience and are gritty leaders, ready to go, and performed at a high level for us in this years plsyoffs.

Quite frankly there is no reason to trade both at this time.

Move one to make room on the roster for Chipchura?? Okay I'm fine with that... but we shouldn't be breaking in a whole bunch of rookies this year. I'd prefer the one who goes to be Dandenault, but maybe it has to be Begin because Dandy is impossible to move?? I don't know... but still you can't just through all your fourth liners to the curb. There is a job for these guys and its the type of job that really requires you to have an experienced vet in the role.

Its time to go


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Old
09-14-2008, 03:08 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
we don't need them at all, IF an injurie accures, D'agostini, Lehoux, Stewart, Flynn and later Maxwell + Pacioretty will be able to temporarely play in the NHL. Right now we're wasting pressious cap money on pissed off players who will be in the pressbox 3 games out of 4. How come it's not like that in Detroit or Philly or Dallas or SanJose, we need to put our best forwards on the ice every game possible, not just for the sake of playing evreyone. I,m really sick of hearing that, if they don't bring enough to the table, then you get rid of them for picks, there's atleast 10 teams that could use a Bégin or a Kostopoulos

Last season, one of the problems in the playoffs was lack of experience..........yet if any of the Habs regulars go down, you feel comfortable having young players with NO playoffs experience fill the void!!! The players that you are referring to as "pissed off" aren't among the best forwards on the team. They are role players! No team has 4 lines of offensive wizards. a team needs guys like Begin and Dandenault and Kostopoulos......they all play the same role. They bring plenty to the table for what is expected of them.........they aren't the guys that are there to score big goals.......they do the "little things" as it is often referred to....

Pacioretty is not ready for the NHL!! He is a talented young kid, but don't let all this media driven hype blind the fact that he is coming out of 1 year of college hockey where they play half as many games as a the NHL. He is not used to the heavy schedule, the level of play, etc. enough with trying to rush all these young players only to slam them when they don't perform to your EAsports expectations...and by the way, he is not a player that will play the roles of a Dandenault or Begin, so their job is not at risk from Pacioretty........

Honestly, what does it really matter how much a player makes in the pressbox?? If the team is comfortable with having those players in that role, then why should it bother you?? Are you George Gillette's financial advisor??

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Old
09-14-2008, 04:15 AM
  #24
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Chipchura, Lappierre, Koivu, Higgins, Kovalev and Plekanec, that's 6 forwards that can play PK, more then enough
And Lang, to take those important faceoffs. I think we will see him used more than Koivu.

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Old
09-14-2008, 04:58 AM
  #25
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It would be a real shame to lose Begin, he is easily one of our biggest workhorses, especially in the post season. Same goes for Kostopolous.

Mathieu Dandenault, as terrible of a season he had, still potted 9 goals in his 61 games. It's just good to keep that in mind.

Anyway, like most, Dandy needs to go on waivers or be traded. There are still some floor strapped teams who could use his speed and versatility.

Similar to what Analyzer said, if we can somehow convince Brian Burke to take Bouillon around the same time we deal/waive Dandenault, there is a possibility of sliding in Schneider. We would be cap strapped for the rest of the season, and if any injuries occur, its rookies or bust, but wow... our lineup would become spectacular.

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