HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk > Polls - (hockey-related only)
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2

Jordan Staal: Draft bust already?

View Poll Results: Is Jordan Staal a draft bust?
Yes 31 6.74%
No 290 63.04%
No, but it was still a bad choice by Pittsburgh 139 30.22%
Voters: 460. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-13-2008, 05:54 PM
  #51
DKH
Registered User
 
DKH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 27,529
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to DKH
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
Bust? Are you serious?

The guy is 6'4 and 220lbs
He already anchors a PK at this level (3:27SH last season)
Has the hands to score 30+ goals (29 two years ago)

Championships are run on the back of this type of player.

DKH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-13-2008, 05:57 PM
  #52
Dominic Roussel
Tank Mode: Fail
 
Dominic Roussel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ATX
Country: United States
Posts: 4,696
vCash: 1951
I chose bust simply because I wish the Pens would see that and decide to trade him to Dallas.

Dominic Roussel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-13-2008, 06:00 PM
  #53
Maxpac
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: hockey city
Posts: 13,893
vCash: 500
I personnaly think he is, could you imagine Pittsburgh right niow with a top 3 of Crosby-Malkin-Toews or a Crosby-Kessel duo, that would just be insane

Maxpac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-13-2008, 06:00 PM
  #54
AK
Registered User
 
AK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 15,538
vCash: 500
-41 goals in two seasons.
-9 playoff goals in 2 seasons.
-On his way to becoming one of the best shutdown centers in hockey.

So many people think he was a bad pick just because Toews went after him and Staal doesn't have the same excitement factor and offensive skill as Toews.

I've used this before, but here's an old article from the Post Gazette.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_527520.html

Quote:
Allow me to recap a recent conversation with an NHL executive, who shall remain nameless at his request:

RR: Forget Sidney Crosby. He stays. If you could pick one player off the Penguins to add to your team, who would you pick?

NHL guy: Jordan Staal.

RR: That was quick.

NHL guy: What have other guys said?

RR: You're the first one I've asked.

NHL guy: I bet a lot of them say Staal.

RR: Not Evgeni Malkin or Marc-Andre Fleury?

NHL guy: The Penguins have a few kids anybody would take. I'd want Staal. Have you seen him during the playoffs? His game translates to winning playoff games. He's a winner. You win with Jordan Staal. And he's only 19. He has -- what? -- (nine) playoff goals before his 20th birthday? He's a big, strong center that will grow into 30-goal scorer, and he'll be a plus-20 player for about 12 years. His performance against the Flyers, after his grandfather died, was as good as it gets. And he's been really good against Detroit, too. Numbers don't tell you how good Jordan Staal has been.

RR: I'm not sure a lot of people in Pittsburgh even appreciate him.

NHL guy: He's not flashy. He doesn't stick out unless you watch with an eye toward what wins. He makes the smart play every time. He has great instincts, and he might be the best young defensive forward in a decade. His stick is long and quick, he can win physical battles and he can skate. How many times have you seen his line cycle low and keep the puck? It happens all the time.

RR: Some people think he took a step back this year.
He's good, very good.
He's not as good as Eric, but he's a quality center.

And he anchors the Pens PK.

AK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-13-2008, 06:02 PM
  #55
AK
Registered User
 
AK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 15,538
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheatking View Post
I think when you have Crosby and Malkin, a Staal type of player fits the team better than a Toews. The offensive capabilities of the Pens would be even more insane than it they already are with Toews but speaking in terms of needs over wants....Staal is probably the better fit.
Exactly.

If the Pens had Toews, they'd have no realistic chance at signing him long-term anyways.

AK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-13-2008, 06:02 PM
  #56
Maxpac
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: hockey city
Posts: 13,893
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WWGRD View Post
-41 goals in two seasons.
-9 playoff goals in 2 seasons.
-On his way to becoming one of the best shutdown centers in hockey.

So many people think he was a bad pick just because Toews went after him and Staal doesn't have the same excitement factor and offensive skill as Toews.

I've used this before, but here's an old article from the Post Gazette.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_527520.html



He's good, very good.
He's not as good as Eric, but he's a quality center.
how many times are Pitts fans going to post that article? it's just 1 (very unique) opinion from a reporter who would probably pick Malkin or Fleury if the article was done today

Maxpac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-13-2008, 06:03 PM
  #57
Complaining Customer
Registered User
 
Complaining Customer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,752
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
FAIR to say

Oh and based on your logic, Trevor Linden owns Crosby because he's played a ton more games.
I fail to see where anybody here suggested that Staal owned any of the other players he was compared to. All we're saying is that it is stupid to consider a guy that was drafted 2 years ago a bust when he is leading all of his draft in both games played and points.

Yeah, Backstrom only has 1 less points and played a lot less games, and yes he is most probably a better offensive player, but consider Backstrom (or Toews) on the Pens, behind Malkin and Crosby... Now consider Staal playing first line minutes with Ovechkin... And consider everything Staal brings to the game that Backstrom doesn't - he is clearly not a bad pick from the Pens.

This is not a jab to Backstrom at all, I like the guy a lot and I think Washington are better off with him than Staal, but I don't think at all the situation is the same for Pittsburgh. Staal played 3:27/game on the PK last year, that's more than any other forwards on the team.

Complaining Customer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-13-2008, 06:04 PM
  #58
AK
Registered User
 
AK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 15,538
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
how many times are Pitts fans going to post that article? it's just 1 (very unique) opinion from a reporter who would probably pick Malkin or Fleury if the article was done today
Many times.

AK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-13-2008, 06:05 PM
  #59
Randall Graves*
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 18,621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blades 0f Steel View Post
Yeah, you called it an aberration. In order to have some basis of comparison to the norm, he'll have to play at least another season of hockey. Otherwise I could say 07-08 is an aberration.

Btw, that high shooting percentage argument is lame.
It's an aberration when a rookie leads the league in shooting percentage.

Randall Graves* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-13-2008, 06:07 PM
  #60
Randall Graves*
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 18,621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canad93 View Post
Doesn't that just point to his skill set?
No, I think it's a fluke when a rookie scores on almost a quarter of his shots, he will be better than last year offensively but I don't think you'll see him leading the league in shooting percentage again.

Randall Graves* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-13-2008, 06:12 PM
  #61
Randall Graves*
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 18,621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguins23 View Post
LMFAO. I don't think I've EVER seen someone say "the only reason he scored a lot of goals is cause he had a high shooting percentage" Is that suppose to be an insult??? So let me guess...the only reason Brodeur and Luongo are good goalies and get shutouts is because they have good save percentages? How dare they!!!

You're a joke. I admit, at the draft I didn't want them to take Staal because he didn't impress me one bit at the memorial cup but I definitely LOVE the fact that they drafted him, he's a beast.
Actually there are plenty of people out there that agree with me.

He went from 22 to 6 percent.

he'll be somewhere in between but he's not going to score at a ratio like that again in his career.

Randall Graves* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-13-2008, 06:20 PM
  #62
TheDaysOf 04
Moderator
Rated [SFY]
 
TheDaysOf 04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 16,607
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Graves View Post
It's an aberration when a rookie leads the league in shooting percentage.
2005-2006 Prucha 23.1%, .1 off leading shooting percentage
2007-2008 Cogliano 18.4%, 6th in shooting percentage

recently it isn't weird to see a rookie do well in this category

TheDaysOf 04 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-13-2008, 06:24 PM
  #63
The Nemesis
Global Moderator
Semper Tyrannus
 
The Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,454
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
FAIR to say

Oh and based on your logic, Trevor Linden owns Crosby because he's played a ton more games.

Come again? He was saying that it's not fair to put Okposo over Staal right now considering that teh sample size on which to evaluate Okposo's NHL success is 9 games compared to Staal's two seasons.

And to everybody: No more "This is stupid" posts. Either provide some legitimate counterpoints to the statement it makes, or stay out of the thread. Coming into the thread just to say it's stupid or demand that it be locked will not be tolerated.

__________________

"Do you know what "nemesis" means? A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent."

Sorry, I am not taking signature requests at this time.
The Nemesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-13-2008, 06:48 PM
  #64
Zen Arcade
eat the record cover
 
Zen Arcade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 14,231
vCash: 500
Where exactly would Backstrom play if the Pens drafted him?

Zen Arcade is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-13-2008, 07:04 PM
  #65
Wheatking
Registered User
 
Wheatking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,235
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
You can always make a trade later. Taking the best player available should be the only option when drafting. Otherwise, you're not thinking in the best interest of the team's future.
I just meant that the Pens should have no regrets about not taking Staal over Toews because it didn't turn out too badly for them...especially when you consider the other assets they have(Crosby and Malkin).

Wheatking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-13-2008, 09:32 PM
  #66
Celestial Black
Registered User
 
Celestial Black's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 6,824
vCash: 500
Not at all...if he were on any other team he would have had more ice time and be putting up more points.

Celestial Black is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-13-2008, 09:43 PM
  #67
HurtsDonut*
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Canada
Country: Croatia
Posts: 930
vCash: 500
lol seriously who would pick phil kessel over jordan staal lmao

mmk

HurtsDonut* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-13-2008, 09:48 PM
  #68
State of Hockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minny
Country: United States
Posts: 11,189
vCash: 500
He's not a draft bust, but I don't think you can argue that he wasn't the wrong selection now and probably forever.

State of Hockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-13-2008, 11:53 PM
  #69
Mortal Fear*
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,229
vCash: 500
Obviously Staal is going to be at worst a good third line centerwho can score 15-20 goals and kill penalties, but that is not the kind of player you should be getting with the #2 overall pick in the draft. Look at #2 overall picks since 1997

Marleau
Legwand
Sedin
Heatley
Spezza
Lehtonen
E. Staal
Malkin

Jordan Staal doesn't come close to measuring up to anybody in this group. Probably the worst in the group is Lehtonen whose stock has been hurt by injuries and being stuck behind Atlanta's perenially hapless defense. I don't think anybody would take any of the forwards in that group over Staal. Legwand was in the same position o being considered a draft bust until he finally became a solid point producing two-way player. He's still not good enough to justify being the #2 pick, although granted it wasn't a great year. But Staal may never be even as good as Legwand is now, much less better.

Mortal Fear* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-14-2008, 01:08 AM
  #70
The Nemesis
Global Moderator
Semper Tyrannus
 
The Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,454
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
Obviously Staal is going to be at worst a good third line centerwho can score 15-20 goals and kill penalties, but that is not the kind of player you should be getting with the #2 overall pick in the draft. Look at #2 overall picks since 1997

Marleau
Legwand
Sedin
Heatley
Spezza
Lehtonen
E. Staal
Malkin

Jordan Staal doesn't come close to measuring up to anybody in this group. Probably the worst in the group is Lehtonen whose stock has been hurt by injuries and being stuck behind Atlanta's perenially hapless defense. I don't think anybody would take any of the forwards in that group over Staal. Legwand was in the same position o being considered a draft bust until he finally became a solid point producing two-way player. He's still not good enough to justify being the #2 pick, although granted it wasn't a great year. But Staal may never be even as good as Legwand is now, much less better.
Dude, it's been 2 years. For all we know he'll suddenly score 80 points every year for the next 10 years.

It's one thing to suggest the pick might not have been teh best one in light of other players taken after him, but I have no idea how you are so ready to write off a player's entire career after just 2 years of seeing him play.

The Nemesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-14-2008, 01:08 AM
  #71
Morozov
The Devil Killer
 
Morozov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,242
vCash: 93
Send a message via MSN to Morozov
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
Obviously Staal is going to be at worst a good third line centerwho can score 15-20 goals and kill penalties, but that is not the kind of player you should be getting with the #2 overall pick in the draft. Look at #2 overall picks since 1997

Marleau
Legwand
Sedin
Heatley
Spezza
Lehtonen
E. Staal
Malkin

Jordan Staal doesn't come close to measuring up to anybody in this group. Probably the worst in the group is Lehtonen whose stock has been hurt by injuries and being stuck behind Atlanta's perenially hapless defense. I don't think anybody would take any of the forwards in that group over Staal. Legwand was in the same position o being considered a draft bust until he finally became a solid point producing two-way player. He's still not good enough to justify being the #2 pick, although granted it wasn't a great year. But Staal may never be even as good as Legwand is now, much less better.
You decide what Staal will be at his worst, then proceed to use those projections of Staal at his worst to say that it isn't the sort of player you want with a number 2 pick, how is that fair? especially when your initial post would suggest you don't really have much of a clue to begin with let alone enough of a clue to predict what Staal will do with his career. Staal may never be as good as Legwand, Staal may be better than everyone on this list, you do not know and to speak as if you do just looks foolish. Seriously do you even know how young Staal is, and your going to write him off as a bust lol, most players haven't done anywhere near what Staal has done at his age. Also for all of this wah wah you should not take a defensive sort of guy with the 2nd pick, if I had a chance to get a guy like Holik when he was first with the Devils I would jump on it with a number 2 pick.


Last edited by Morozov: 09-14-2008 at 01:13 AM.
Morozov is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-14-2008, 08:15 AM
  #72
nmbr_24
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,492
vCash: 500
Staal is turning into an elite defensive center, hardly a bust, he has also shown he can score, he didn't score as much last year, but he played a different role on the team, and he does it very well.
You have to give the kid credit for being the kind of player the Penguins need him to be, a shutdown center, I have a feeling he soon will be a yearly Selke trophy candidate.
Pretty far from a bust.

nmbr_24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-14-2008, 03:53 PM
  #73
Killiecrankie*
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,999
vCash: 500
When Staal is crashing the net on the number one PP (as he will be this year) he should get 25 to 30 goals this year, and kill penalties and match up against the other teams top line, and dominate with the cycle down low.


Staal is going to win us a lot of playoff rounds...... he plays the tough crappy minutes, best player in round 3 for sure.


I wish we drafted "busts" like this in the first round all the time. And there is not a player from that draft class picked after that I would want over Staal. Sorry.

Killiecrankie* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-14-2008, 05:55 PM
  #74
Kamina
Amok
 
Kamina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,076
vCash: 500
Definitely not a bust, but just thinking of Pittsburgh having Crosby, Malkin and Toews makes my head spin.

Kamina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-14-2008, 05:57 PM
  #75
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
You Suck McBain!
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 42,405
vCash: 500
Every time I think people can't get any dumber...

Needless to say, this will be a fun thread to bump later.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:04 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.