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Old
09-14-2008, 11:10 AM
  #51
Maxpac
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Originally Posted by sievea View Post
do some people actually still believe the Canadiens dominated us?
Dominating is a big word, but we did control the tempo in mostly all of the games except the last,hitting 12 posts in 1 series is not ''normal'' by any standards, Umberger scoring 4 lucky goals in the series is not ''normal'' either, and that's not even mentioning Biron who played well above of what we're used seeing of him. Keep in mind though that i do like Philly as team, anyways next year if we meet againt, it won't turn out the same (alot more intense too).

Back to the proposal, I don't think Lupul fits our needs at all, we're set up front for the year t wing, if any move happens it will be to clear someone in order to fit Pacioretty in the line-up, nice try though

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09-14-2008, 11:12 AM
  #52
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the key point is that if you're going to make a trade proposal with the intent of clearing salary, why not make a trade for one of the flyers' salary dumps. you don't use top line talent as salary dump.

hatcher+rathje for komisarek at least makes sense along the lines of helping the flyers get below the cap

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09-14-2008, 11:15 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
Why do you assume that Hatcher and Rathje won't be put on the LTIR?
I'm not assuming anything, I'm inquiring. It's Flyers' fans who are assuming that both Rathje and Hatcher won't be back, as I have heard that Rathje wants to come back and I have yet to read a credible source confirming that Hatcher is on the LTIR.

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09-14-2008, 11:21 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by MONACOBLUE View Post
Again, please demonstrate to us how the Habs are soft. They drive to the net. They hit. They battle in the corners. And this year they will have the fighting power, too. Koivu, Higgins, Lapierre, Latendresse, Laraque, Komisarek, O'Byrne, Kostopoulos, Begin, Hamrlik. Right, because having Briere and Timonen makes your team sooo tough. Just because this team doesn't have a power forward (which it might if Latendresse keeps developing) doesn't mean a team is soft. Beating a team one year in the playoffs also does not mean that they'll do it again. Pittsburgh lost in the first round two years ago. Didn't happen last year! So, please tell us exactly how the Habs are they soft? All those goals with Andrei Kostitsyn deking out the other guy and heading straight for the net or Higgins crashing the net, what is that? How about Komisarek crushing everyone or A Kost occasionally unleashing his hitting power on some unsuspecting guy? I guess we should all just ignore that.
Man you need to learn to be more objective. Open your eyes, there were many times when some of the younger forwards shyed away from physical contact. Andrei Kostitsyn, Plekanec, Kovalev, Markov in particular. I do agree that they are not as soft as people seem to think they are, but they are not as tough as you indicicate. They rarely drive to the net. But that is not their game, they prefer to make a passing play. But there comes a time when players need to just crash and bang and that is one of the reasons why the Smolinski, Begin, Kostopoulos line was so sucessful. One of the bonuses of the Lang addition was that he likes to go to front of the net, which will definitely help the cause. I think a big part of their timidness was their inexperience, hopefully they will learn. They only defenders that were willing to do the dirty work and take the hit were Hamrlik and Gorges. For almost the whole Boston series, the rest were looking behind their back.

Lets put it this way:

They are tougher than other fans give them credit for, but not as tough as Habs fans think they are.

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09-14-2008, 11:22 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
the key point is that if you're going to make a trade proposal with the intent of clearing salary, why not make a trade for one of the flyers' salary dumps. you don't use top line talent as salary dump.

hatcher+rathje for komisarek at least makes sense along the lines of helping the flyers get below the cap
If you think you can get top talent for both those guys, you need a dose of reality. The Flyers are NOT in a position of strength and neither were the Blackhawks, who gave Montreal a 21 goals, 54 points man for a second round pick. Nice try.

And as a reply to your avatar:


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09-14-2008, 11:23 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
I'm not assuming anything, I'm inquiring. It's Flyers' fans who are assuming that both Rathje and Hatcher won't be back, as I have heard that Rathje wants to come back and I have yet to read a credible source confirming that Hatcher is on the LTIR.
Here's how I know Rathje's not coming back...his number was GIVEN AWAY TO LASSE KUKKONEN. Kukkonen was #28 but he gave it to Giroux, and Kukkonen took 3. Holmgren has said Hatcher will be put on LTIR at the start of the season, and Hatcher failed the physical at the end of the year, was having fluid drained from both his knees in the playoffs, and before that too. As for a link, I don't have one because Holmgren said it on sports radio 610 WIP in Philadelphia, and there was no official announcement/press conference, but it was said.


Last edited by BillyShoe1721: 09-14-2008 at 11:30 AM.
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Old
09-14-2008, 11:29 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
If you think you can get top talent for both those guys, you need a dose of reality. The Flyers are NOT in a position of strength and neither were the Blackhawks, who gave Montreal a 21 goals, 54 points man for a second round pick. Nice try.

And as a reply to your avatar:

i was more referring to the illogical nature of a lot of trade proposals involving the flyers. people say that the flyers are in cap trouble because of hatcher and rathje and that they need help. if that were the case, the flyers would probably just try to move the problems, hatcher and rathje, instead of dumping contributors like lupul and carter. but the majority of the trade proposals i see usually have the flyers dumping a top line talent for another team's cheap scraps. try reading the whole sentence, it was a facetious proposal.

and concerning my avatar and your response, it's like high school. sure, you're bigger and tougher, but my checkbook has more zeroes than you can count

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09-14-2008, 11:29 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
Here's how I know Rathje's not coming back...his number was GIVEN AWAY TO LASSE KUKKONEN. Kukkonen was #28 but he gave it to Giroux, and Kukkonen took 3. Holmgren has said Hatcher will be put on LTIR at the start of the season, and Hatcher failed the physical at the end of the year, was having fluid drained from both his knees in the playoffs, and before that too.
Giving the number only means that he's not coming back to the Flyers. I can appreciate that. But if the rumour is true that he's planning a come back this year, his salary is not attached to his jersey number, but to the Flyers' payroll.

As for Hatcher, I understand that Holmgren may have said that Hatcher failed the physical AT THE END OF LAST YEAR. This is the BEGINNING OF THIS YEAR. I'm simply asking for a link showing that he's on the LTIR... is there one, yes or no? Otherwise, everything is speculation at trying to shove down everyone's throat that the Flyers are not in cap problems is pure fantasy as the numbers show otherwise.

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09-14-2008, 11:30 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
i was more referring to the illogical nature of a lot of trade proposals involving the flyers. people say that the flyers are in cap trouble because of hatcher and rathje and that they need help. if that were the case, the flyers would probably just try to move the problems, hatcher and rathje, instead of dumping contributors like lupul and carter. but the majority of the trade proposals i see usually have the flyers dumping a top line talent for another team's cheap scraps. try reading the whole sentence, it was a facetious proposal.

and concerning my avatar and your response, it's like high school. sure, you're bigger and tougher, but my checkbook has more zeroes than you can count
I did read it all and although it may have been clear in your mind, it wasn't in the message. But I get your point and I agree that the trade proposal didn't make any sense.

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09-14-2008, 11:45 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Giving the number only means that he's not coming back to the Flyers. I can appreciate that. But if the rumour is true that he's planning a come back this year, his salary is not attached to his jersey number, but to the Flyers' payroll.

As for Hatcher, I understand that Holmgren may have said that Hatcher failed the physical AT THE END OF LAST YEAR. This is the BEGINNING OF THIS YEAR. I'm simply asking for a link showing that he's on the LTIR... is there one, yes or no? Otherwise, everything is speculation at trying to shove down everyone's throat that the Flyers are not in cap problems is pure fantasy as the numbers show otherwise.
maybe i'm an optimistic homer, but i highly doubt holmgren would keep adding players if he wasn't sure that hatcher wasn't coming back. it stinks for hatch, but one way or another, he's not playing for the flyers this season.

if hatcher does want to play, the only recourse would be for homer to trade him, which is a possibility. once again, the flyers aren't trading lupul or carter to make room for Derian ****ing Hatcher.

and rathje tried a comeback last season too. he showed up at camp but obviously couldn't carry his weight.

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09-14-2008, 11:45 AM
  #61
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Man you need to learn to be more objective. Open your eyes, there were many times when some of the younger forwards shyed away from physical contact. Andrei Kostitsyn, Plekanec, Kovalev, Markov in particular. I do agree that they are not as soft as people seem to think they are, but they are not as tough as you indicicate. They rarely drive to the net. But that is not their game, they prefer to make a passing play. But there comes a time when players need to just crash and bang and that is one of the reasons why the Smolinski, Begin, Kostopoulos line was so sucessful. One of the bonuses of the Lang addition was that he likes to go to front of the net, which will definitely help the cause. I think a big part of their timidness was their inexperience, hopefully they will learn. They only defenders that were willing to do the dirty work and take the hit were Hamrlik and Gorges. For almost the whole Boston series, the rest were looking behind their back.

Lets put it this way:

They are tougher than other fans give them credit for, but not as tough as Habs fans think they are.
The thing is, the playoffs were a new experience for these players. I also considered the regular season when evaluating in these players. In the playoffs, they were scared, but that happens. People put way too much stock into the performance of a team in the playoffs. I was one of those people who would defend Datsyuk when he used to be criticized several years ago. People too much stock into playoff performances without realizing how much hockey is really a team game. Were the Habs tough during the regular season? More than enough. During the playoffs, probably less so, but that comes with experience (which is the key). It's not your team's ability to smoke the opponent that counts; it's how battle-tested they are.

Also, passing is a way towards the net. Sure, Kovalev and A. Kost like fancy passes, but nobody would be scoring on them if there was no one at the net. Scoring consistently from the perimeter isn't really possible. Just because they don't knock three people over on their way to the net doesn't mean they aren't tough. Toughness has very little with how often you hit. In my mind, Joe Sakic is tougher than Steve Ott and Jarkko Ruutu.

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09-14-2008, 11:49 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
I'm not assuming anything, I'm inquiring. It's Flyers' fans who are assuming that both Rathje and Hatcher won't be back, as I have heard that Rathje wants to come back and I have yet to read a credible source confirming that Hatcher is on the LTIR.
There can't be any sources that say that Hatcher and Rathje are on the LTIR as they are not there yet. Decisions on LTIR are made shortly before the season starts, and as said previously, if one isn't placed on LTIR they will be playing with the Phantoms. Pretty easy to understand, but believe what you want.

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09-14-2008, 11:51 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
maybe i'm an optimistic homer, but i highly doubt holmgren would keep adding players if he wasn't sure that hatcher wasn't coming back. it stinks for hatch, but one way or another, he's not playing for the flyers this season.

if hatcher does want to play, the only recourse would be for homer to trade him, which is a possibility. once again, the flyers aren't trading lupul or carter to make room for Derian ****ing Hatcher.

and rathje tried a comeback last season too. he showed up at camp but obviously couldn't carry his weight.
Holmgren better hope that neither (and especially not both) try coming back in time for camp or he'll have a lot of scrambling to do as with them, they're currently sitting at $61.2M, $64.2M with bonus cushion... and little time to act!

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09-14-2008, 11:53 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
There can't be any sources that say that Hatcher and Rathje are on the LTIR as they are not there yet. Decisions on LTIR are made shortly before the season starts, and as said previously, if one isn't placed on LTIR they will be playing with the Phantoms. Pretty easy to understand, but believe what you want.
You're right, I'll believe it when I see it. I prefer facts to having suppositions shove down my throat.

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09-14-2008, 11:54 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Holmgren better hope that neither (and especially not both) try coming back in time for camp or he'll have a lot of scrambling to do as with them, they're currently sitting at $61.2M, $64.2M with bonus cushion... and little time to act!
He can just put them on waivers and stash them in the minors if they're desperate. It's not a big deal. If anything, Hatcher would probably be picked up if he got put on waivers.

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09-14-2008, 11:56 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Holmgren better hope that neither (and especially not both) try coming back in time for camp or he'll have a lot of scrambling to do as with them, they're currently sitting at $61.2M, $64.2M with bonus cushion... and little time to act!
waivers take all of a couple of days. plenty of time. its phantoms, LTIR, or hoping some other team will take them for future considerations.

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09-14-2008, 12:06 PM
  #67
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Well, one of the most respected Philly posters on here does:
you're backing up an opinion with another opinion.

you might have outplayed us, but who dominated where it mattered entirely most? if anything, scoring more than you guys 4 times out of 5 is dominating. whether it was just because of one player, he's still part of your team and part of your problem. it's not like Markov and Komisarek were anything special either.

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09-14-2008, 12:09 PM
  #68
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Alright, since I can't find a direct link for you, I do see where you're coming from. There's no way of possibly being sure that they're going to be on LTIR, so we'll just have to wait and see. Although I'm almost certain that they both will be, I can't guarantee that Hatcher will be, but I'm positive Rathje will be.

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09-14-2008, 01:25 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
and concerning my avatar and your response, it's like high school. sure, you're bigger and tougher, but my debt has more zeroes than you can count
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

http://www.nowpublic.com/american_na..._national_debt

YES! Your checkbook DOES have more zeroes!

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09-14-2008, 02:31 PM
  #70
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debt aside (yes, its embarassing, bush has about as much fiscal sense as my toothbrush), the US GDP far outstrips canada's, not to mention how much americans have invested in canadian business. if we really want to talk debt comparison, hell, pretty much everyone has it better than the US.

but hey, however you look at it, i'm at least half right

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09-14-2008, 08:56 PM
  #71
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I already told you people, Rathje has already moved to San Jose from Philly with his family. There is NO rumor about him trying to come back. If there is, it needs to be posted here, now. I am 100% certain that he has moved.

Oh, and....HE'S ISN'T EVEN ON THE TEAMS ROSTER!!!

Here....look for yourselves....he's done, it's been a moot point for 2 years now!

http://flyers.nhl.com/team/app?servi...rs&type=roster

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09-14-2008, 10:35 PM
  #72
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Mike Rathje's career is over. He'd retire, except that he wouldn't get paid anymore. I think he has to show somehow (multiple doctors, I think) that he physically cannot play, but would try to if he could. The Flyers aren't pressuring him, because they don't care about the money at all.

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09-15-2008, 01:23 AM
  #73
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You're right, I'll believe it when I see it. I prefer facts to having suppositions shove down my throat.
Well, if you prefer facts you may recognize that the Flyers aren't over the cap currently because the off-season cap is 110% of the season cap and the Flyers aren't above $62.37MM. Once the season starts the Flyers will be under the $56.7MM limit without giving away a useful roster player because Rathje and Hatcher and their total $7MM caphit will be on LTIR or playing in the AHL. The Flyers aren't over the salary cap and Rathje and Hatcher aren't on LTIR currently. You see, the Flyers don't have to trade anyone, the fact stays the same.

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09-15-2008, 03:26 AM
  #74
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wow, biron plays over his head in one playoff series against the habs and philly automatically becomes the better hockey team? lol.

give me a break.

It should be fun to not only sweep you in the regular season (again), but in the playoffs too if you're good enough to make it.

Lupul is 4th line fodder for the Habs anyways. So no to a deal that brings an overpaid 4th liner. If you want to unload Lupul so bad, you can have dandenault and a folding chair from the old montreal forum.

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09-15-2008, 06:47 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by 24morecupsthanyou View Post
wow, biron plays over his head in one playoff series against the habs and philly automatically becomes the better hockey team? lol.

give me a break.

It should be fun to not only sweep you in the regular season (again), but in the playoffs too if you're good enough to make it.

Lupul is 4th line fodder for the Habs anyways. So no to a deal that brings an overpaid 4th liner. If you want to unload Lupul so bad, you can have dandenault and a folding chair from the old montreal forum.
biron playing over his head? maybe, but i think the habs lost more because they weren't putting enough pressure on him. that allows solid goaltenders to play a level above. if you can't win in the playoffs, we'll give you some pity wins in the regular season

lupul would not be 4th line on the habs. don't kid yourself.

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