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Jordan Staal: Draft bust already?

View Poll Results: Is Jordan Staal a draft bust?
Yes 31 6.74%
No 290 63.04%
No, but it was still a bad choice by Pittsburgh 139 30.22%
Voters: 460. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-15-2008, 05:02 PM
  #101
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil Dancer View Post
I voted bust by accident, meant to vote that it's just a bad pick.

People are hyping Staal's defensive play, but IMO Toews and Backstrom could do that job almost as well if not just as well. Unlike Staal, Toews and Backstrom have been assigned offensive roles, but just because Staal has been asked to play a more defensive game doesn't mean he's the only one that can.

But I don't think it goes the other way. I haven't seen those flashes of offensive brilliance from Staal that we've seen consistently from Toews and Backstrom.
How do you reconcile this? We might not have seen those flashes of offensive brilliance from Staal that we've seen consistently from Toews and Backstrom, but we also haven't seen those flashes of defensive brilliance from Toews and Backstrom that we've seen consistently from Staal.

Staal hasn't been given the scoring opportunities Toews or Backstrom has, and his only legit time in the top 6 was on Malkin's wing. When Backstrom started out last year, he had a hard time scoring because - shocker - he was being used on the wing, out of his natural position.

Staal excelled in the role he was forced into, and Toews and Backstrom excelled in the roles they were trained for and comfortable in.

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09-15-2008, 05:06 PM
  #102
NyQuil
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Power forwards take longer to develop.

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09-15-2008, 05:38 PM
  #103
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I'll gladly take that bust on the Habs any day of the week.

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09-15-2008, 06:50 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WWGRD View Post
Backstrom? I don't know about that.

Staal had 29 goals in his rookie season, while Backstrom had 12.
Nicklas will spend his whole career in WAS passing to AO before shooting. I see Backstrom getting many more points, but not goals. Staal could very well be quite close to him there.
I should have been more specific. I didn't mean just goal scoring, but rather scoring in general. Backstrom is a straight up playmaker.

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09-15-2008, 06:50 PM
  #105
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No, but I'd rather have Toews.

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09-15-2008, 06:58 PM
  #106
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I think the Staal selection was solid but if the rumored offer from the Canes of Jack Johnson for Staal was turned down I think that was a bad choice on the Pens part IMO.

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09-15-2008, 07:01 PM
  #107
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i never liked Staal's foot speed and his faceoffs (The whole families) are ATROCIOUS. he had a good rookie campaign, no doubt, and im sure he'll develop into a suitable power forward but im just not sold on his speed and mobility for a player taken that high. i think he's overhyped just because of his name.

Toews and Backstrom, yikes.

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Old
09-15-2008, 07:10 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by CorpseFX View Post
i never liked Staal's foot speed and his faceoffs (The whole families) are ATROCIOUS.
He was the Penguins best player on draws during the playoffs.

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09-15-2008, 07:10 PM
  #109
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I remember there was a rumour last year that Staal was going to get traded for Seabrook, Toews, and a 1st rounder and there were a few fans who thought it wasn't enough to get Staal... how the times have changed.

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09-15-2008, 07:30 PM
  #110
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It was a reach taking him over Toews at the time, its looking like a disaster right now.

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Old
09-15-2008, 07:32 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
Let's see who Pittsburgh could have taken instead:

Toews
Backstrom
Kessel
Brassard
Okposo
Mueller
And and of them performed so brilliantly in the playoffs last season.

Staal helped -- considerably -- his team to the cup finals in his second NHL season. He will likely have a Rod Brind'Amour-like career. That is far from a bust.

If a significant portion of his career is played with the Penguins -- a team with two offensively brilliant players who are superior than everyone from Staal's draft -- it is a perfect fit for what the team that drafted him needs.

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Old
09-15-2008, 07:39 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
Let's see who Pittsburgh could have taken instead:

Toews
Backstrom
Kessel
Brassard
Okposo
Mueller

Most teams would probably rather have ANY of these players except maybe Brassard. Staal is always going to be a third liner as long as he's in Pittsburgh, and even on other teams he's just barely good enough to be a 2nd liner. Just doesn't have the same offensive skills as the players taken before him. His rookie year he got lucky with a high shooting percentage and a lot of shorthanded chances. He will probably end up being a 45-50 point player in his prime, paling in comparison to the players taken after him, and hardly the numbers one would expect from a #2 overall pick. I think it's fair to say that Staal was both a draft bust AND a poor choice considering who went after him.
I like the kid and hae watched at least 50games of him in the past 3yrs. I don't think he'll be what people imagine. I don't think he has the inner drive. His brothers seem to have more fire than him. He's a big kid with good (not great) skating skills but until he changes his lubering seemingly loafing ways I don't see him being more than a complimentary 3rd line player. For a while I imagined him as being a poor mans joe thornton but he doesn't have the vision and passing skills. Then I figured maybe marleau but at this point I think pittsburgh'll be lucky if he ends up as the new version of antropv.

I would've taken toews/mueller/backstrom in a heart beat. Okposo and toews have the most "fire" of that years first rounders and see the most destined for consistent success.

I've NEVER understood the staal pick (even less the refusal to trade him for jack johnson (when he was in carolina) every other player on your list was more dynamic. Kessel was the only potential head case but I think what he's gone through the past few years has matured him...

staal had SIZE.. and SIZE. He's a good penalty killer but who the heck drafts penalty killers within the first FIVE?

again, ..seems like a nice kid but everything I've seen from him makes me think.."average nhl'er on a good team...below average on a team that has to depend on him"

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Old
09-15-2008, 07:43 PM
  #113
Vagrant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n0rea11y View Post
I think the Staal selection was solid but if the rumored offer from the Canes of Jack Johnson for Staal was turned down I think that was a bad choice on the Pens part IMO.
What has Jack Johnson done to merit such high consideration?

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09-15-2008, 07:46 PM
  #114
the_speedster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
Power forwards take longer to develop.
power forward? sid crosby plays more of a power forward style than staal. But your thread exemplifies the problem a lot of people have with jordan.. WHAT IS HE?

power forward? (cam neely?)
rangy play making centre (thornton)?
tall powerful penalty killer (joel otto?)

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Old
09-15-2008, 07:46 PM
  #115
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I remember when people used to complain that a young Jaromir Jagr didn't have any shot other than a backhand. Yet somehow, against all odds, he actually managed to <gasp> improve his skills as he gained experience.

This thread is a joke. A Calder finalist who is considered a defensive specialist yet has 17 more NHL goals than one of the "better offensive options" in his draft being labeled a bust?

Methinks the threadstarter needs to be teabagged.

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Old
09-15-2008, 07:50 PM
  #116
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I would take Toews but Staal is not a bust

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09-15-2008, 07:53 PM
  #117
the_speedster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
What has Jack Johnson done to merit such high consideration?
jack has and always has had that IT factor. You can tell he's gonna be an nhl star type or die trying. I know canes fans still have a grudge against him but no one can deny the kid is a bull. No matter where he's been or what team, you're always aware of jack johnson's prsence. Jordan has to be the quietest 6ft 5, player I have ever watched. (and I've seen Viktor Kozlov LIVE!)

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09-15-2008, 07:58 PM
  #118
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i swear,

there should be a IQ test before any user can make a thread or post.

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09-15-2008, 08:51 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Wreck Gar View Post
He was the Penguins best player on draws during the playoffs.
And Pittsburgh was at or near the bottom of the NHL the entire season in faceoffs. So that isn't saying very much. What was his %?

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09-15-2008, 08:52 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_speedster View Post
power forward? sid crosby plays more of a power forward style than staal. But your thread exemplifies the problem a lot of people have with jordan.. WHAT IS HE?

power forward? (cam neely?)
rangy play making centre (thornton)?
tall powerful penalty killer (joel otto?)
I can tell you right now that he's not Thornton.

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09-15-2008, 08:53 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
It was a reach taking him over Toews at the time, its looking like a disaster right now.
I was campaigning for Toews, but Staal at #2 in '06 wasn't a reach at all. Hickey at #4 in '07 - now that was a reach. The top 5 after Johnson was considered a crapshoot by pretty much everybody. If I'm not mistaken, there's draft video of George McPhee actually talking about taking "the Swede" because Staal had already been selected.

I could be wrong though, and I'm too lazy to check.

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Old
09-15-2008, 08:56 PM
  #122
HockeyThoughts
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This thread is going to look even more ridiculous in a few years..

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09-15-2008, 09:06 PM
  #123
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_speedster View Post
power forward? sid crosby plays more of a power forward style than staal. But your thread exemplifies the problem a lot of people have with jordan.. WHAT IS HE?

power forward? (cam neely?)
rangy play making centre (thornton)?
tall powerful penalty killer (joel otto?)
Staal, at points in these past playoffs, began using his frame and showing his physical dominance out there - puck possession on the cycle, board battles, and yes, even hitting. We hope he can start to bring that every night. He's still only a teenager, so there's plenty of time.

As for your examples, I don't think he'll ever fit into any of those stereotypes. He doesn't have the vision of Thorton or the net-sense of Neely, and he has more offensive potential than Otto. The Primeau comparison has been thrown around quite a bit, and that seems a little more apt. Less grit and better defense though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_speedster View Post
jack has and always has had that IT factor. You can tell he's gonna be an nhl star type or die trying. I know canes fans still have a grudge against him but no one can deny the kid is a bull. No matter where he's been or what team, you're always aware of jack johnson's prsence. Jordan has to be the quietest 6ft 5, player I have ever watched. (and I've seen Viktor Kozlov LIVE!)
Huge types like Staal always seem to get that knock though, and even greats like Mahovlich and Lemieux couldn't avoid it.

Big players usually have those long, lazy-looking strides and it can often make it appear as though they're disinterested or dogging it, but that's just how they move. JJ? Well, he's always in the mix, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll be the better player. It hasn't been the case so far.

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09-15-2008, 09:18 PM
  #124
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
And Pittsburgh was at or near the bottom of the NHL the entire season in faceoffs. So that isn't saying very much. What was his %?
51.3%. Mike Richards, that face-off demon, was 53.3%.

Zetterberg? 53.5%.

Sakic? 50.4%

Drury? 48.9%

And as always ignored in Staal discussions by his detractors, he's 19.

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Old
09-15-2008, 09:25 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo View Post
Kessel's only job is to score.
Staal's main goal is to defend.

Yet Staal has outscored Kessel as of now and you'd still take Kessel before him.


I say YOU're the bust.
Please, please tell me you know that Kessel plays in a defense-first system, unlike the open offensive game the Penguins play.

I'm not saying one if better than the other, but come on. The Bruins are one of the worst offensive teams in the league because of their style. If Kessel was with the Penguins he'd probably have a 30 goal season under his belt already.

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