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Toronto - Edmonton

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Old
09-16-2008, 02:22 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
You realize that Blake's illness doesn't effect his playing ability right? You also realize you are predicting edmonton to have 7 20+ goal scorers/50 point forwards?

(Last season they had 2 50-pointers and 3 20-scorers)
I think he means Edmonton has 7 potential 20 goal scorers. But this will never happen.

Blake has a bad attitude and is not needed in Edmonton anyway. The locker room in Edmonton is tight and his attitude is not needed.

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09-16-2008, 02:23 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
You realize that Blake's illness doesn't effect his playing ability right? You also realize you are predicting edmonton to have 7 20+ goal scorers/50 point forwards?

(Last season they had 2 50-pointers and 3 20-scorers)
not counting the edm points.

i completely disagree, this will definately tire him out, make him a little weaker, but it will hamper his performance.

I dont think it will hamper it from a SKILL standpoint as it surely doesnt affect his hand eye co-ordination, accuracy.

but you may see a decrease in stamina, or a decrease in speed if he becomes fatigued due to the virus.

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09-16-2008, 02:25 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan99ss View Post
not counting the edm points.

i completely disagree, this will definately tire him out, make him a little weaker, but it will hamper his performance.

I dont think it will hamper it from a SKILL standpoint as it surely doesnt affect his hand eye co-ordination, accuracy.

but you may see a decrease in stamina, or a decrease in speed if he becomes fatigued due to the virus.
He had to take pills, he wasn't effected at all.

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09-16-2008, 02:25 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by CMacdonald View Post
I think he means Edmonton has 7 potential 20 goal scorers. But this will never happen.

Blake has a bad attitude and is not needed in Edmonton anyway. The locker room in Edmonton is tight and his attitude is not needed.
uh.. what?

blake doesnt have a bad attitude IIRC.

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09-16-2008, 02:26 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
You realize that Blake's illness doesn't effect his playing ability right? You also realize you are predicting edmonton to have 7 20+ goal scorers/50 point forwards?

(Last season they had 2 50-pointers and 3 20-scorers)
Well if it didn't effect his playing ability why did his stats stink so much? I thought he had a better chance at 40 goals on toronto's team last year than he did with the islanders the year before.

Yeah 2 50 pointers. 1 played through a wrist injury and the other spent a good part of the year off. 3 others with 45+ points and another with 41.

With Pitkanen out of the picture and Vishnosky in and a healthy Souray playing those numbers will inflate greatly. We don't need Jason Blake, and 7 of Edmonton's forwards will outscore him next year.

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09-16-2008, 02:27 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by CMacdonald View Post
He had to take pills, he wasn't effected at all.
I think it will really do with how he does fighting his cancer.

i didnt say that he HAS been effected, i said depending on the progression of the cancer you may see a reduction in stamina and speed due to fatigue.

Im HOPING he doesnt get worse, in my prev post i said i was looking forward to seeing blake hopefully rebound. im just saying.

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09-16-2008, 02:28 AM
  #32
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rolosons a bum

would have to throw in a 4th with roloson just to get someone to take him. trade makes no sense a rebuilding team like the leafs picking up a washed up bum like roloson. toskala has some good yrs left ahead of him mind u with toronto, lol but thats laughable.

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09-16-2008, 02:30 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan99ss View Post
uh.. what?

blake doesnt have a bad attitude IIRC.
Okay maybe he is just a whiney ***** and has a great attitude in the locker room.

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09-16-2008, 02:32 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by jlaw420 View Post
would have to throw in a 4th with roloson just to get someone to take him. trade makes no sense a rebuilding team like the leafs picking up a washed up bum like roloson. toskala has some good yrs left ahead of him mind u with toronto, lol but thats laughable.
Did a 420 didn't ya?

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09-16-2008, 02:37 AM
  #35
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Well if it didn't effect his playing ability why did his stats stink so much? I thought he had a better chance at 40 goals on toronto's team last year than he did with the islanders the year before.

Yeah 2 50 pointers. 1 played through a wrist injury and the other spent a good part of the year off. 3 others with 45+ points and another with 41.

With Pitkanen out of the picture and Vishnosky in and a healthy Souray playing those numbers will inflate greatly. We don't need Jason Blake, and 7 of Edmonton's forwards will outscore him next year.
His stats stunk? He would have been the 2nd leading scorer on the Oilers last year...

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09-16-2008, 02:39 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan99ss View Post
I think it will really do with how he does fighting his cancer.

i didnt say that he HAS been effected, i said depending on the progression of the cancer you may see a reduction in stamina and speed due to fatigue.

Im HOPING he doesnt get worse, in my prev post i said i was looking forward to seeing blake hopefully rebound. im just saying.
Actually, you said it will "definitely" make him less effective. Seeing as he took the same medicine and had the same disease last year, it won't be any different. If anything, he should improve with the fact that he gets over the pressure as he comes to terms with having the disease.

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09-16-2008, 02:40 AM
  #37
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His stats stunk? He would have been the 2nd leading scorer on the Oilers last year...
Who said the oilers had good stats.

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09-16-2008, 02:43 AM
  #38
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Who said the oilers had good stats.
Well, he was predicting 7 players to score 50+ points... Teams like Detroit only had 4, Pens had 5, MTL had 7 but they are far and away a better offensive team.

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09-16-2008, 02:48 AM
  #39
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Well, he was predicting 7 players to score 50+ points... Teams like Detroit only had 4, Pens had 5, MTL had 7 but they are far and away a better offensive team.
I dunno

Blake had an off year after signing a moderate contract as a old guy. Could be his numbers dropped off after coming to Torontos offense.

I think it's more people like to joke Idiot Man signed him for that long.

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09-16-2008, 02:53 AM
  #40
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I dunno

Blake had an off year after signing a moderate contract as a old guy. Could be his numbers dropped off after coming to Torontos offense.

I think it's more people like to joke Idiot Man signed him for that long.
I don't think it was Toronto's offense that made him decline. He simply had one very good contract year, and Toronto took the gamble, and lost (4 mill for 56 points isnt that bad though, age is the scary part).

Idiot Man did a lot of idiot things.

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09-16-2008, 02:55 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan99ss View Post
He also scored 56 points last year IIRC, which isnt bad for someone who primarily played 2nd line minutes,
that being said, his trade value is negative, he is on a long expensive contract, and for god sakes he has cancer. no team is going to take him until he a) earns that contract with 30goals or 80 points or b) is declared cancer free. plain and simple.
Jason Blake got 14:32 EV TOI the league average for First line was 14:07. He got 25 seconds more than the average first liner got. he also played 3:06 PP TOI which is first line PP.

The last five years Blake has averaged 287 shots/season with a 9.0% shooting%. That makes him a 26 goal scorer. 4M is not bad for a 26 goal scorer. But he is so damn inefficient with shooting%

A team has a limited number of shots. I would rather have Penner play third line LW minutes than blake. Penner can get you 23-30 goals with 200 shots in a year. The other 90 shots would do well to be shot by other players on the oilers. Who all pretty much have a better shooting %.

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09-16-2008, 02:59 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
I don't think it was Toronto's offense that made him decline. He simply had one very good contract year, and Toronto took the gamble, and lost (4 mill for 56 points isnt that bad though, age is the scary part).

Idiot Man did a lot of idiot things.
/shrug

If you look at Blakes career only Idiot man would give him that contract. The guy didn't play much NHL stuff through his career. Basically he was a nobody till he was 29.

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09-16-2008, 02:59 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
Well, he was predicting 7 players to score 50+ points... Teams like Detroit only had 4, Pens had 5, MTL had 7 but they are far and away a better offensive team.
Well I guess it might be prudent to reduce that number to 6, just because 3rd liners don't get enough ice time to accomplish that.

I hope for improvements from rookies.
Cole - Horcoff - Hemsky --- I don't see how you can't expect 3 there. Cole is a huge upgrade from Penner.

Penner/Nilson - Gagner - Colgliano --- I can't see Penner playing on the 3rd line, but Nilson deserves the spot on the 2nd line and he didn't even play a full season in the NHL last year. He and Cogs were only a few points away from the 50 points barrier.

Their top for 4men: Vishnovsky, Souray, Gilbert and Grebeshkov. Assuming we don't set a bloody record for most games lot to injury, we'll have the best group of defensemen Edmonton has put out in over 15 years.

They've got enough bodies on the blue line who can make a good first pass(Vishnovsky, Gilbert and Grebeshkov), score from the point(Gilbert and Souray) and contribute on the PP.(Souray, Gilbert and Vishnovsky)

If Penner doesn't make the 1st or second line, I dare say that Edmonton will have the fastest scoring lines in the NHL and if you pair that together with 3 guys who can make a good pass from the back end, that equals more scoring opportunities than most teams.

I know. It's very circumstantial, but at some point in time Edmonton has to have a very good PP. On paper they've got a great PP, but that's just on paper.

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Old
09-16-2008, 03:07 AM
  #44
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Well I guess it might be prudent to reduce that number to 6, just because 3rd liners don't get enough ice time to accomplish that.

I hope for improvements from rookies.
Cole - Horcoff - Hemsky --- I don't see how you can't expect 3 there. Cole is a huge upgrade from Penner.

Penner/Nilson - Gagner - Colgliano --- I can't see Penner playing on the 3rd line, but Nilson deserves the spot on the 2nd line and he didn't even play a full season in the NHL last year. He and Cogs were only a few points away from the 50 points barrier.

Their top for 4men: Vishnovsky, Souray, Gilbert and Grebeshkov. Assuming we don't set a bloody record for most games lot to injury, we'll have the best group of defensemen Edmonton has put out in over 15 years.

They've got enough bodies on the blue line who can make a good first pass(Vishnovsky, Gilbert and Grebeshkov), score from the point(Gilbert and Souray) and contribute on the PP.(Souray, Gilbert and Vishnovsky)

If Penner doesn't make the 1st or second line, I dare say that Edmonton will have the fastest scoring lines in the NHL and if you pair that together with 3 guys who can make a good pass from the back end, that equals more scoring opportunities than most teams.

I know. It's very circumstantial, but at some point in time Edmonton has to have a very good PP. On paper they've got a great PP, but that's just on paper.
Put the stuff down. Not going to happen, Edm might get 4 people with 50 points next year. The kids didn't turn into vets over the summer.

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09-16-2008, 03:16 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMacdonald View Post
Put the stuff down. Not going to happen, Edm might get 4 people with 50 points next year.
1. No.
2. Please justify me being wrong. Are you telling me that the Oilers will play worse healthy than they did while bogged down by injuries and before the Cole/Pitkanen Vishnovsky/Green + Stoll trade?

I'm confused. We got rid of a problematic 1st pairing defenseman who didn't seem to care much about what he did and we got a 1st line left wing in Cole. A guy who's put up a very respectable amount of points on a team that doesn't go to the attack as much as Edmonton.

Then we got rid of a 3rd pairing defensive defenseman and a 2nd line center who seemed to have been down on his luck since suffering a concussion for a first pairing defenseman who doesn't take stupid penalties and who has played at a very high level consistently over the past 4 years.

Hemsky played all right last year, but we expected more of him. Through the whole year the media constantly sold the story that Hemsky was playing through a wrist injury, which he has now recovered from.

Horcoff was the team's MVP, but he went down with a nasty injury, which he has now recovered from.

Gagner was a young 18 year old and broke 50 points playing on the 2nd line for most of the year. He's just turned 19 and is expected to show improvement from last year.

Nilson fell a few points short, even though he was sent down to the AHL for a few weeks and therefore didn't even play an entire season. He's in his early 20's and is expected to show improvement from last season.

Cogliano also fell a few points short of 50 last year. He's in the same boat as the last two dudes.

There are 6 guys right now. Now I dare not say it'll happen, but what if Souray and/or Vishnovsky also pick up 50 points?

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09-16-2008, 03:20 AM
  #46
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1. No.
2. Please justify me being wrong. Are you telling me that the Oilers will play worse healthy than they did while bogged down by injuries and before the Cole/Pitkanen Vishnovsky/Green + Stoll trade?

I'm confused. We got rid of a problematic 1st pairing defenseman who didn't seem to care much about what he did and we got a 1st line left wing in Cole. A guy who's put up a very respectable amount of points on a team that doesn't go to the attack as much as Edmonton.

Then we got rid of a 3rd pairing defensive defenseman and a 2nd line center who seemed to have been down on his luck since suffering a concussion for a first pairing defenseman who doesn't take stupid penalties and who has played at a very high level consistently over the past 4 years.

Hemsky played all right last year, but we expected more of him. Through the whole year the media constantly sold the story that Hemsky was playing through a wrist injury, which he has now recovered from.

Horcoff was the team's MVP, but he went down with a nasty injury, which he has now recovered from.

Gagner was a young 18 year old and broke 50 points playing on the 2nd line for most of the year. He's just turned 19 and is expected to show improvement from last year.

Nilson fell a few points short, even though he was sent down to the AHL for a few weeks and therefore didn't even play an entire season. He's in his early 20's and is expected to show improvement from last season.

Cogliano also fell a few points short of 50 last year. He's in the same boat as the last two dudes.

There are 6 guys right now. Now I dare not say it'll happen, but what if Souray and/or Vishnovsky also pick up 50 points?

Type all you want, I'm an Oilers fan and I don't believe the hype. Remember the 300 goals prediction when Lupul got here?

False.

But I do hope they will get 8th so they face Detroit. The team is built to beat them. And that could mean Hossa.

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09-16-2008, 03:35 AM
  #47
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I'm sorry in advance. I mean no disrespect... but as an Oiler fan BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

1. Blake hasn't recovered from his illness.
2. Garon was much better than he was expected to be last year.
3. Toskala didn't impress anyone last year.

I wouldn't even take Roloson and Schremp for Blake and Toskala. Blake is too slow to keep up with the Oilers. I

I really don't get why you have a 1st rounder from Edmonton in there.

And on top of that... Blake is a 2nd line forward when at his best. Edmonton has tons of those. Out of:

Cole, Hemsky, Penner, Horcoff, Cogliano, Gagner, Nilson and Brodziak... which of those dude's jobs would Blake be able to steal? None.

BUA-HA-HA.

Now if you wanted to be sensible for a minute, you could consider peddling off a guy like Antropov. A big guy with scoring upside who's UFA next year. Get real dude. You don't take two guys who're really down on your luck and expect to get something worth it's weight in gold in return.

If this deal did go down I would enjoy laughing at the Leafs with Roloson in net all season.
#2 and 3 make you look like an idiot (no offense intended)

Garon did much better than expected... yea, he did better than he was supposed to, don't expect it to happen again

Toskala didn't impress?

Toskala was bloody brilliant, and you won't find to many people (or anyone) in the NHL who'd take Garon over Toskala

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09-16-2008, 03:38 AM
  #48
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#2 and 3 make you look like an idiot (no offense intended)

Garon did much better than expected... yea,
So that makes YOU look like an idiot(no offense intended)

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09-16-2008, 03:43 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMacdonald View Post
Type all you want, I'm an Oilers fan and I don't believe the hype. Remember the 300 goals prediction when Lupul got here?

False.

But I do hope they will get 8th so they face Detroit. The team is built to beat them. And that could mean Hossa.
Whoever through we'd score 300 goals after losing the guys we last after we went to the finals is nuts.

The many games we play vs the Wild should be blowouts, and I can only seeing Calgary being better than us in the NW, but I'm hoping that the Oilers end up on top.

What don't you believe in when you speak of the hype?

How good Cole is? Is every bit the hard worker Horcoff is, except he won the cup and is more offensively skilled than Horcoff is as well. That'll be a tough line to play up against because they're fast, Horcoff and Cole bring a strong physical presence, and a healthy Hemsky should mean lots and lots of points. For the last few years I've found my patience running thin with Hemsky. Some people say that he is a first line forward. Some fans say he's a 2nd liner. Sometimes you'll watch TV and hear dudes say how he's an amazing playmaker. Eventhough he's 23 or 24, it's time for him to show us what we've been waiting for. If he doesn't deliver then I say move him to the 2nd line and put Gagner up on the 1st line RW.

To me this team looks deeper and faster than all Oilers teams since the early 90's. If this team bombs... well then someone is going to have to get moved and someone is going to have to get fired. And Kelly-f'ing-Buchberger better not end up being the Oiler's head coach any time soon, or I (and many others) will consider cheering on the Flames.

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09-16-2008, 03:43 AM
  #50
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He had to take pills, he wasn't effected at all.
there was a definite effect both physically and mentally... although the mental part went away (just the shock of being told you have cancer... that's gonna grind your nerves for a while)... physically speaking, he's on chemo pills... he's taking poison every day... his body is weaker than it would normally be, for sure... Chemo does more damage to your system than most diseases... and you can always tell when a player is sick, even if it is just a cold.

that being said, he still got a lot of assists and is a really fiesty player... not what Edmonton needs, but still, really good

Antropov+Van Ryn for 1st rounder + Rollie(do you guys have another backup?)

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