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Old
09-16-2008, 03:45 AM
  #51
glucker
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Originally Posted by CMacdonald View Post
So that makes YOU look like an idiot(no offense intended)
hmm? (the no offense intended part was more a jab at him using that, and then laughing at the trade, and saying he hoped to see the Leafs suck with Rollie in net for a year)

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Old
09-16-2008, 03:50 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by glucker View Post
there was a definite effect both physically and mentally... although the mental part went away (just the shock of being told you have cancer... that's gonna grind your nerves for a while)... physically speaking, he's on chemo pills... he's taking poison every day... his body is weaker than it would normally be, for sure... Chemo does more damage to your system than most diseases... and you can always tell when a player is sick, even if it is just a cold.

that being said, he still got a lot of assists and is a really fiesty player... not what Edmonton needs, but still, really good

Antropov+Van Ryn for 1st rounder + Rollie(do you guys have another backup?)
There is no freeking "chemo" pills

I've lost my dad, my sister and uncle to Cancer and none of them got any pills besides stuff I won't get into.

And all three I have sat at their beds as they died and nobody gave them "chemo" pills,

Something like cancer is not anything you should be ************ about.

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Old
09-16-2008, 04:00 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by CMacdonald View Post
There is no freeking "chemo" pills

I've lost my dad, my sister and uncle to Cancer and none of them got any pills besides stuff I won't get into.

And all three I have sat at their beds as they died and nobody gave them "chemo" pills,

Something like cancer is not anything you should be ************ about.
Sorry for your loss, but you're wrong. If they didn't get the pills its because their form of cancer wasn't treated that way or was too far advanced(the treatments are always tailor made to the patient because of all the factors included)

http://www.drugs.com/cg/oral-chemotherapy.html

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Old
09-16-2008, 04:02 AM
  #54
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I've been a fan of Blake's for a while now, but unfortunately he doesn't fit in with what the Oilers are trying to build at this point. If Cole ends up leaving next summer via UFA, the Oilers might be interested.

I'm not sure why the Leafs would want to move Toskala. He's a capable starter, and Pogge is unlikely to be ready for a few more years. A Cujo-Roli tandem could give TO a good chance at Tavares, so it might me worth pursuing.

Schremp's trade value is at an all-time low. He should get some games this season, so we'll see where he's at. He's done all the right things this summer, working hard on his strength and skating. He's been given good reviews from MacT and KLowe so hopefully he's given a real chance this season to succeed. For now, I'd prefer to hang on to him.

I don't think the Oilers and Leafs make good trade partners. Players the Oilers would be interested in, such as Stajan or Steen are unlikely to be moved.

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Old
09-16-2008, 04:08 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by glucker View Post
Sorry for your loss, but you're wrong. If they didn't get the pills its because their form of cancer wasn't treated that way or was too far advanced(the treatments are always tailor made to the patient because of all the factors included)

http://www.drugs.com/cg/oral-chemotherapy.html
Oh so you're a freeking Oncologist now...

You have treated Blake and know everything about him?

He's probably on prednisone and pees a lot.

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Old
09-16-2008, 04:09 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowball View Post
I've been a fan of Blake's for a while now, but unfortunately he doesn't fit in with what the Oilers are trying to build at this point. If Cole ends up leaving next summer via UFA, the Oilers might be interested.

I'm not sure why the Leafs would want to move Toskala. He's a capable starter, and Pogge is unlikely to be ready for a few more years. A Cujo-Roli tandem could give TO a good chance at Tavares, so it might me worth pursuing.

Schremp's trade value is at an all-time low. He should get some games this season, so we'll see where he's at. He's done all the right things this summer, working hard on his strength and skating. He's been given good reviews from MacT and KLowe so hopefully he's given a real chance this season to succeed. For now, I'd prefer to hang on to him.

I don't think the Oilers and Leafs make good trade partners. Players the Oilers would be interested in, such as Stajan or Steen are unlikely to be moved.
Unless a top 6 forward or two on Edmonton gets injured (more likely 2-3) I can't see him playing up with Edmonton. He's got the moves to play in the NHL, but that's all he's got at this point. Everything else about his game is barely satisfactory. He's worked his way from being incredibly slow to kinda slow... and we'll have to wait till training camp before we judge his defensive game... but i suspect it'll be the same as the speed issue.

Imagine putting him on the 4th line just so that you could have a shootout expert. lol
With the stuff he did a few seasons ago, the puck on his stick should look like a nunchuk in Bruce Lee's hands by now.

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Old
09-16-2008, 04:29 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by CMacdonald View Post
Oh so you're a freeking Oncologist now...

You have treated Blake and know everything about him?

He's probably on prednisone and pees a lot.
now who's playing oncologist?

he's taking Gleevec(imatinib), it's like chemo, but with fewer side effects... it doesn't do much damage to the organs like normal chemo, although in some cases it can cause chronic heart failure. More common, and less dangerous side effects include nausea and muscle and skeletal pain... and yes, those are things that affect your game(bringing this back to hockey)

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Old
09-16-2008, 04:42 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by glucker View Post
now who's playing oncologist?

he's taking Gleevec(imatinib), it's like chemo, but with fewer side effects... it doesn't do much damage to the organs like normal chemo, although in some cases it can cause chronic heart failure. More common, and less dangerous side effects include nausea and muscle and skeletal pain... and yes, those are things that affect your game(bringing this back to hockey)
Bleh I said probably. Everyone with cancer takes that.

Yup read up on it, where did you get "like chemo" from your sources.

This is not a "chemo pill"


...and no we don't know if it affected his game. Come on if he was sick he wouldn't have played. He has his contract.

side effects
Broadly, side effects such as edema, nausea, rash and musculoskeletal pain are common but mild.

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Old
09-16-2008, 04:58 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundin is my hero View Post

Toronto gets: Dwayne Roloson, Rob Shremp and '09 1st round pick
Edmonton gets: Toskala, Jason Blake, '09 (or'10) 4th round pick

Giver hell!!
Blake contract is horrible and unmovable and as an oiler fan--for me to take that contract need some sugar--like a first round pick. Rolo is in his last year and as the season moves on an his contract gets smaller the oiler will be able to move him(if they like) for a mid pick.

Toskala is a better goalie then rolo most of the time and TO fans would hate the down grade--t


trade doesnot work for ether side

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Old
09-16-2008, 09:19 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan99ss View Post
I think it will really do with how he does fighting his cancer.

i didnt say that he HAS been effected, i said depending on the progression of the cancer you may see a reduction in stamina and speed due to fatigue.
You actually have no idea about the condition he has.

Not all types of cancer have the same effects.

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Old
09-16-2008, 09:31 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glucker View Post
Antropov+Van Ryn for 1st rounder + Rollie(do you guys have another backup?)
Dubnyk is likely ready to play back-up, but there's no way Edmonton could absorb those salaries without making another adjustment.

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Old
09-16-2008, 01:54 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
Dubnyk is likely ready to play back-up, but there's no way Edmonton could absorb those salaries without making another adjustment.
No, Jeff Delarius is guy who is ready for the NHL. Dubnyk needs another year.

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Old
09-16-2008, 02:16 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by glucker View Post
there was a definite effect both physically and mentally... although the mental part went away (just the shock of being told you have cancer... that's gonna grind your nerves for a while)... physically speaking, he's on chemo pills... he's taking poison every day... his body is weaker than it would normally be, for sure... Chemo does more damage to your system than most diseases... and you can always tell when a player is sick, even if it is just a cold.

that being said, he still got a lot of assists and is a really fiesty player... not what Edmonton needs, but still, really good

Antropov+Van Ryn for 1st rounder + Rollie(do you guys have another backup?)
that is absolutely the worst trade for antropov and van ryn ive seen on this board to date. we dont need rollie, and antropov alone is probobly worth your first rounder let alone van ryn.

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Old
09-16-2008, 04:45 PM
  #64
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In the event of multiple injuries, Edmonton would rather play Schremp then trade for Blake.

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Old
09-16-2008, 05:18 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
You realize that Blake's illness doesn't effect his playing ability right? You also realize you are predicting edmonton to have 7 20+ goal scorers/50 point forwards?

(Last season they had 2 50-pointers and 3 20-scorers)
Do you realize we did have 5-7 20+ goal scorers in 2005-2006 when the Oilers had a bonifided d-man who can move the puck in the zone real quick (Pronger, Spacek, Tarnstrom). Now that they got Visnovsky you can bet that the Oilers will be back to that mark. Horcoff, Cole, Penner, Cogliano, Gagner, Nilsson, and Hemsky most likely will get to that mark. And to add to your point about Blake and Toskala, did any of them get Toronto remotely close to playoff contention? nope. Same thing can be said about the Oilers too but Garon set some high standards meaning he had more media on him than Toskala. Not to mention that our 2nd line is only 21 years old (Average age) which shows you how Edmonton steals the sunshine from a team like Toronto.

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Old
09-16-2008, 07:28 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Sundin is my hero View Post
Alright so it's late and I've probably been doing too much reading at the Edmonton and Toronto sections, but I came up with this proposal, I don't think it's great but it's worth a look a perhaps a re-tool after some feedback.

Toronto gets: Dwayne Roloson, Rob Shremp and '09 1st round pick
Edmonton gets: Toskala, Jason Blake, '09 (or'10) 4th round pick

This only happens if Edmonton doesn't think that Garon or Rolly can take the team deep. So this trade most likely does not happen right away, maybe before Christmas or even closer to the deadline. Basically Toronto gets a stop-gap before Pogge comes up, they get rid of Blake (who could fit in nicely in edmonton because he is fast, even though he is older) and obviously T.O gets a nice pick in this years draft. Shremp also gets included if he cannot make the jump to the big club this year. Now I have not looked at the cap hits or the salary cap situations for both teams, but what the hell that's what you guys/girls are all for....

Giver hell!!
Your on the right track for a deal but I don`t think Edmonton has the cap space to take on Blake`s salary. Maybe if Edmonton adds some salary going back the other way. Also I think Toskala could land more.

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Old
09-16-2008, 11:07 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by CMacdonald View Post
Bleh I said probably. Everyone with cancer takes that.

Yup read up on it, where did you get "like chemo" from your sources.

This is not a "chemo pill"


...and no we don't know if it affected his game. Come on if he was sick he wouldn't have played. He has his contract.

side effects
Broadly, side effects such as edema, nausea, rash and musculoskeletal pain are common but mild.
Gleevec? no, they don't all take it, not even close.

It is a highly targetted version of chemotherapy (thats why it is effective, but with fewer side effects)...

and he wouldn't stop playing from nausea and pain, all good athletes(and he is a good athlete) know to play through the pain, if they can't do that, they wouldn't be where they are. The illness itself may not be affecting him(they caught it really really early)... but the medicine will cause side effects that will slow any1's game down... and it's not hard to see that his game went downhill (over 50% drop in goal production?)... Toronto had an above average offense, he should have had an increase over his average production, not a sharp decrease...

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Old
09-16-2008, 11:17 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan99ss View Post
that is absolutely the worst trade for antropov and van ryn ive seen on this board to date. we dont need rollie, and antropov alone is probobly worth your first rounder let alone van ryn.

1) I'm a leaf fan
2) Edmonton isn't a very good team(no offense) if they do make the playoffs, they're gonna be booted very quickly, pick would be mid round(probably 16th) in an excellent draft
3) Big picture, if this team had some brass with some brains, they'd also be working very hard on moving Toskala for more pieces... I'm thinking to Washington for Fehr and a 1st, they want to make hte playoffs and do something this time around... and Theo isn't the guy they want in net

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09-16-2008, 11:42 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
Dubnyk is likely ready to play back-up, but there's no way Edmonton could absorb those salaries without making another adjustment.
Antropov + Van Ryn cost 5M combined, Roloson costs 3.6M, Edmonton has 2.3M of cap space

you guys have .9M in cap space after this trade, .5 for the backup you call up from the minors, still golden... now you can also trade a top-6 forward away, since Antropov pushes one of them out (don't know your team in depth, but I do know that some more size in your top-6 isn't a bad idea at all... you could loose some salary and replace that pick, get another veteran, I don't know, but cap-wise you're fine

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09-16-2008, 11:47 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glucker View Post
Antropov + Van Ryn cost 5M combined, Roloson costs 3.6M, Edmonton has 2.3M of cap space

you guys have .9M in cap space after this trade, .5 for the backup you call up from the minors, still golden... now you can also trade a top-6 forward away, since Antropov pushes one of them out (don't know your team in depth, but I do know that some more size in your top-6 isn't a bad idea at all... you could loose some salary and replace that pick, get another veteran, I don't know, but cap-wise you're fine
regardless, how does Toronto benefit?

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Old
09-16-2008, 11:52 PM
  #71
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Do you realize we did have 5-7 20+ goal scorers in 2005-2006 when the Oilers had a bonifided d-man who can move the puck in the zone real quick (Pronger, Spacek, Tarnstrom). Now that they got Visnovsky you can bet that the Oilers will be back to that mark. Horcoff, Cole, Penner, Cogliano, Gagner, Nilsson, and Hemsky most likely will get to that mark. And to add to your point about Blake and Toskala, did any of them get Toronto remotely close to playoff contention? nope. Same thing can be said about the Oilers too but Garon set some high standards meaning he had more media on him than Toskala. Not to mention that our 2nd line is only 21 years old (Average age) which shows you how Edmonton steals the sunshine from a team like Toronto.
Vishnovsky is not going to instantly revitalize your team. He isn't as good as Pronger was offensively. You are expecting Nilson to double his goal scoring (which I guarentee doesn't happen). And basically everyone on the team improves? How many times does a team go and have every player hit career highs? Not often, not next year.

Are you actually arguing that Garon had more media on him than Toskala (not that it relates to this discussion at all)? I don't know what the heck you are going on about in your last few sentences, so I'll ignore them.

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Old
09-17-2008, 12:04 AM
  #72
glucker
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regardless, how does Toronto benefit?
we're getting a mid 1st rounder in a very good draft, and a goalie to replace Toskala, who should be moved for picks/prospects

Antropov's value is a late 1st rounder... add Van Ryn, and we get to move up in the draft and add a goaltender... it's a very even deal IMO

the 3 trades I think the LEafs should make are

Antropov + Van Ryn for Roloson + 1st(Edmonton)
Kaberle for O'Sully + Teubert(LA)
Toskala for Fehr + 1st(Washington)

we get worse for this season, which gives us a better shot at the top-2, and cements our position in the top-5, we get a really good young guy in O'Sully, a good defensive prospect in Teubert, and a really good power forward prospect in Fehr, plus 2 extra picks, both likely in the 15-20 range, which can be put together, along with another asset to get another top 5 pick

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Old
09-17-2008, 01:51 AM
  #73
Nizdizzle
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Originally Posted by glucker View Post
we're getting a mid 1st rounder in a very good draft, and a goalie to replace Toskala, who should be moved for picks/prospects

Antropov's value is a late 1st rounder... add Van Ryn, and we get to move up in the draft and add a goaltender... it's a very even deal IMO

the 3 trades I think the LEafs should make are

Antropov + Van Ryn for Roloson + 1st(Edmonton)
Kaberle for O'Sully + Teubert(LA)
Toskala for Fehr + 1st(Washington)

we get worse for this season, which gives us a better shot at the top-2, and cements our position in the top-5, we get a really good young guy in O'Sully, a good defensive prospect in Teubert, and a really good power forward prospect in Fehr, plus 2 extra picks, both likely in the 15-20 range, which can be put together, along with another asset to get another top 5 pick
Not commenting on the other two deals, but Rolly is negative value now. He has a high salary, and is terrible, not to mention old. a top-6 forward and top-4 D-man is worth more than a late pick and a salary dump

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