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The Third Line Center Debate: Dustin Penner?

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Old
09-16-2008, 11:09 AM
  #1
OilFanInCowtown
 
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The Third Line Center Debate: Dustin Penner?

From Pierre LeBrun's Blog:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/...=lebrun_pierre

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre LeBrun
For you hockey poolies out there, MacTavish also tipped me off on his possible line combinations, although, as we all know, those can change in a hurry in the modern-day NHL.

For now, MacTavish sees Cole on the first line with Shawn Horcoff and Ales Hemsky. Cogliano, Gagner and Robert Nilsson were a hit last season, so MacTavish will probably leave the kids together to start the season. A solid third line right now would see Fernando Pisani, Dustin Penner and captain Ethan Moreau.
He was solid on faceoffs last year and, if I remember correctly, MacT did try this line combination for one or two games mid-season last year (before the 20 game run).

I also believe Penner played some center in college, so it's not entirely new to him.

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09-16-2008, 11:14 AM
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misfit
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Bad. BAD idea.

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09-16-2008, 11:14 AM
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Maybe its dumb, but I would really like the look of a
Pisani - Brodziak - Penner line.

They wouldnt be overly quick, but they would be solid defensively, and could give opposing teams fits when they go on the offensive.

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09-16-2008, 11:15 AM
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Mr Sakich
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if the org is worried that pundits will laugh at their 4 million dollar a year 3rd line centre, then they won't do this. If they are trying to make Penner the best possible player, then some time with Ethan and Pisani will help a lot.

Pisani is one of those guys who makes his linemates better. Everyone who plays on a line with him improves. Ethan might be in over his head. I wold almost rather see a line of Penner - Pouliot/Brodziak - Pisani

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09-16-2008, 11:16 AM
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I agree with this comment. He is a true power forward.

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09-16-2008, 11:19 AM
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I think some time with Moreau would be good for Penner. There are a couple aspects of Moreau's game that Penner will have to pick up if he ever intends to be a true power forward.

I also thought Penner played well when placed in the center position last year.

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09-16-2008, 11:22 AM
  #7
misfit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
if the org is worried that pundits will laugh at their 4 million dollar a year 3rd line centre, then they won't do this. If they are trying to make Penner the best possible player, then some time with Ethan and Pisani will help a lot.
I think it's more of a sign that MacT either doesn't think Brodziak or Pouliot are ready for that kind of responsibility, or that he wants to get Moreau on the ice more.

Penner was a complete trainwreck last year as a center. This reaks of the "Ryan Smyth: 1st line center" debacle of the 03/04 season.

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09-16-2008, 11:30 AM
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I really want to see a Scremp-Penner-Pisani third line.

People make to big of a deal about who takes the draws vs who is C. Pisani will be the guy who plays low in the defensive end and covers the most important players. Just becuase a guy takes the Draw doens't mean he is the most important Defensive player on the line.

Or make it, Penner-Schremp-Pisani, doens't matter all that much.

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09-16-2008, 11:38 AM
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Al Hamilton
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Worth a try in exhibition, see if any chemistry developes. As long as Penner sees his PP time, his next most value to the team may be winning faceoffs and playing good defense ES this year .

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09-16-2008, 11:45 AM
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I'd be interested in seeing that combo for a few games for sure.

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09-16-2008, 11:47 AM
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I think the kid line is being treated too much like a shiny object, they are getting more credit for winning than they deserve. Yes they played very well and scored some big goals, but at the same time it was the only point of the year when multiple lines and defensemen were consistently scoring and when the power play improved (which Gagner had a big part in). In turn people are forgetting that before Horcoff went down, the line of he, Penner, and Hemsky had to try and carry a team of deadbeats or rookies trying to figure out the NHL game.

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09-16-2008, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misfit View Post
I think it's more of a sign that MacT either doesn't think Brodziak or Pouliot are ready for that kind of responsibility, or that he wants to get Moreau on the ice more.

Penner was a complete trainwreck last year as a center. This reaks of the "Ryan Smyth: 1st line center" debacle of the 03/04 season.
Agreed. Based on the following assumptions:
- Signing Pouliot on a 1-way deal
- Not retaining/signing a vet center tells us that they believe Brodziak or Pouliot will succeed
- That 08-09 is an “option-to-go-for-it” year – but that it is not a true target year (10-11, 11-12, 12-13) as the back three years of the Hemsky deal are the real target

Then giving Brodziak or Pouliot the opportunity is far better for their development and the strength of the team through center than shifting Penner to that slot will provide.

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09-16-2008, 12:20 PM
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I'm sure they'll try lots of line combinations in order to fit Penner in, and Moreau should get a shot at the 3rd line, but I certainly don't think putting him with Penner and Pisani is a good move.

In order to be effective in the offensive zone, Penner and Pisani need to play with a set-up guy at Center. They can both shoot the puck, but neither one of them is terrific at carrying the puck. Penner - Brodziak - Pisani would be a better line. Brodziak can take some draws, handle the puck, and pass the puck. Moreau has all of 4 assists over the course of the last two seasons.

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09-16-2008, 12:35 PM
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It's worth a try, and we know MacT's not afraid to pull the plug should the experiment fail. And heck, this is nothing new for us - we paid Peca $4 million to play 3rd line centre too

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09-16-2008, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Deer Rebel View Post
I'm sure they'll try lots of line combinations in order to fit Penner in, and Moreau should get a shot at the 3rd line, but I certainly don't think putting him with Penner and Pisani is a good move.

In order to be effective in the offensive zone, Penner and Pisani need to play with a set-up guy at Center. They can both shoot the puck, but neither one of them is terrific at carrying the puck. Penner - Brodziak - Pisani would be a better line. Brodziak can take some draws, handle the puck, and pass the puck. Moreau has all of 4 assists over the course of the last two seasons.
If we're running a kid at centre, I'd say Pouliot is far and away the better passer. I think that Penner might surprise you, though, he's not as bad at moving the puck as you think

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09-16-2008, 01:02 PM
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Pouliot should also get a shot. He certainly has some offensive skills, and showed good chemistry with Pisani during his last call-up.

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09-16-2008, 01:06 PM
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I thought I'd post this here for those of you who may not see it in the daily news/blog thread. Looks like he agrees with a lot of you.

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09-16-2008, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namflashback View Post
Agreed. Based on the following assumptions:
- Signing Pouliot on a 1-way deal
- Not retaining/signing a vet center tells us that they believe Brodziak or Pouliot will succeed- That 08-09 is an “option-to-go-for-it” year – but that it is not a true target year (10-11, 11-12, 12-13) as the back three years of the Hemsky deal are the real target

Then giving Brodziak or Pouliot the opportunity is far better for their development and the strength of the team through center than shifting Penner to that slot will provide.
That tells us LOWE believes they'll succeed. MacT's words and actions tell a different story.

- He publicly stated that he wanted Reasoner back
- He didn't play Brodziak or Pouliot in any tough minute situations last year until injuries forced him to.
- He's seriously considering playing a LW at center despite the fact that he has a glut of young centermen to work with.

None of that screams "faith in Pouliot/Brodziak/Schremp/Brule" to me.


Last edited by misfit: 09-16-2008 at 01:18 PM.
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09-16-2008, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeywhiz View Post
I agree with this comment. He is a true power forward.
I mean he has to be... that's what NHL 09 has him as heehe

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09-16-2008, 01:15 PM
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I think Brodz centering the 3rd line should be automatic, with Penner on LW and Schremp on RW. Putting Pisani there isn't the right compliment IMO. Schremp is more of a set up guy, Brodz a release guy and Penner a crash the net guy. Pisani would just be another shooter - Schremp can shoot and pass.

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09-16-2008, 01:24 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
I think Brodz centering the 3rd line should be automatic, with Penner on LW and Schremp on RW. Putting Pisani there isn't the right compliment IMO. Schremp is more of a set up guy, Brodz a release guy and Penner a crash the net guy. Pisani would just be another shooter - Schremp can shoot and pass.
Schremp + Penner on the same line = Defensive Nightmare hehehe

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09-16-2008, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schitzo View Post
It's worth a try, and we know MacT's not afraid to pull the plug should the experiment fail. And heck, this is nothing new for us - we paid Peca $4 million to play 3rd line centre too
And we also went to the cup final. You could be onto something.

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09-16-2008, 11:25 PM
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Penner makes the third line C make sense because:

- Between Hemsky, Horcoff, Cole, Gagner, Nilsson, Cogliano, and Penner, someone is going to play on the third line therefore asking them to alter their game.

- Anyone who thinks Moreau and Pisani won't play on the third line is on glue. They will get there 15-17 minute a night because they are veteran, responsible 2 way players, momentum changers, with modest offensive output when healthy.

- Sorry guys but the 4th line belongs to the kids that are not the GNC line. Pouliot, Brodziak, Stortini, et al will have to continue to cut their teeth down there unless someone stumbles. The ones that have proven themselves will get the first crack.

So bringing in another veteran would just muck things up further. It would just knock everyone further down the ranks.

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09-16-2008, 11:35 PM
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I'd rather try Penner-Pouliot-Pisani to be honest.

I don't know why, but I think Pouliot would be a better fit between those two than Brodziak.

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09-16-2008, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
I'd rather try Penner-Pouliot-Pisani to be honest.

I don't know why, but I think Pouliot would be a better fit between those two than Brodziak.
Because every post you make you have Pouliot in the line-up either over Schremp or Stortini???

My line-up if Penner drops to the 3rd line...

Cole-Horcoff-Hemksy
Nilsson-Gagner-Cogliano
Penner-Pouliot-Schremp
Moreau-Brodziak-Pisani

Switch the 3rd and 4th lines when we're on the road. Penner supposedly was a good match with Lupul in Anaheim (Penner feeding Lupul for shots). Penner and Pouliot do teh board work, and Schremp creates the offense (Penner shoudl free up some ice for Rob as well).

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