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Carey Price considered 8th best goalie in the league

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Old
09-17-2008, 09:38 AM
  #26
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I don't consider Price Top 5 in the Eastern Conference... yet.

Again, this is 8th best for Fantasy Pool. Montreal is going to win a ton of games next year and Price will likely be the guy with the job. He's a good pick for lots of games.

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09-17-2008, 09:45 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
Lol...Really? So winning the Vezina 4 out of the last five seasons (lock out not included) including last season. Does not make him the #1 goalie in the league? Both Turco and Luongo are amazing goalies, but neither has done enough to suggest they are ahead of Brodeur.

Also yes Price does have a lot to prove after his let down against the Flyers. But there are not tons of goalies that should be ranked ahead of him, at the most maybe 2 or 3.

You're just like all the rest of the people who think that Brodeur is god, when in fact, its the New Jersey Devil's defensive system that makes Brodeur a success. You put Brodeur on a struggling team like Toronto and he wouldn't do a damn thing.

The Devils have built a team and a system around Brodeurs un-orthodox style of goaltending and it has worked great, but to say that Brodeur is the #1 goalie in the league is bull. There are many other goalies out there who have more skill and are the reason for their team being successful. Brodeur is a good goalie, don't get me wrong....but people forget that most of his success comes from having a good defensive system in front of him that his whole team has bought into.

What has Price done in the NHL to deserve such high regard???? NOTHING!!!
I'm sick of everybody giving praise where it isn't due!! Price hasn't proved one thing in his NHL career and everything he has done before coming to the NHL means absolutely nothing as far as I'm concerned. Many players can excel in Junior, the World Juniors and even in the AHL and turn out to be nothing in the NHL. Its happened over and over. We've seen players lead the Canadian World Junior team to gold medals and not ever make and NHL team.
I'm not saying that this very thing will happen to Price, but I don't understand why everybody says he is soooo great when he hasn't proved a thing in the NHL. The only thing he proved so far is that he is only human and that even he can crumble and blow a playoff series for his team.....thats it.

People need to stop giving him an undeserved reputation as a great goalie in the NHL. Wait until he proves something and then brag him up and talk highly of him.....don't do it when he is still young and unproven.


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09-17-2008, 09:46 AM
  #28
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Price's glove hand in the second round makes everyone forget how dominant he was down the stretch and the second half of the season. But that's fine...they will remember soon enough
Price's playoff struggles are so magnified it's not funny...i swear, you'd think Price had **** the bed for the 10th consecutive time. It was his first playoffs in the NHL and considering it all, he didn't do too bad. He struggled vs. the Flyers but alot of more proven goalies struggled more (remember Roy in the late 80's) and were able to bounce back.

Price will be fine

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09-17-2008, 09:48 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
You're just like all the rest of the people who think that Brodeur is god, when in fact, its the New Jersey Devil's defensive system that makes Brodeur a success. You put Brodeur on a struggling team like Toronto and he wouldn't do a damn thing.
Last season the Devils defence fell apart many times, which is why he played more games than he ever has before. The concept that Brodeur can't play without his D is a pure myth. Brodeur doesn't have to work as hard due to his D, but when he works hard, hes just as talented as any of the Top goaltenders in NHL history.

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09-17-2008, 09:53 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
You're just like all the rest of the people who think that Brodeur is god, when in fact, its the New Jersey Devil's defensive system that makes Brodeur a success. You put Brodeur on a struggling team like Toronto and he wouldn't do a damn thing.

The Devils have built a team and a system around Brodeurs un-orthodox style of goaltending and it has worked great, but to say that Brodeur is the #1 goalie in the league is bull. There are many other goalies out there who have more skill and are the reason for their team being successful. Brodeur is a good goalie, don't get me wrong....but people forget that most of his success comes from having a good defensive system in front of him that his whole team has bought into.
Hahaha what a joke. That argument might have held some water when Brodeur had Neidermayer and Stevens in front of him and they were trapping teams to death in the height of the Dead Puck Era. Now he's got Paul Martin, Johnny Oduya, Sheldon Brookbank...I don't even know who else. Not to mention Brodeur has gone through multiple coaches with multiple systems and multiple players in front of him and always posted great numbers. All the while wearing street hockey sized pads.

It blows my mind that people still attribute the mythical "Devils system" to what makes Brodeur great despite the fact that it's been dead since at least the lockout.

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09-17-2008, 10:00 AM
  #31
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But he's still the number one in my heart




More like a nice excuse provided to the Huet lovers/Habs haters to bash him.
Nah Price had all the excuses last season. Everything Huet did was discarded by some fans and everything Price did was excused or admired by some fans. I clearly remember when some fans blamed Huet for showing emotion, yet when Price broke down in tears some fans thought he's such a great goalie because he shows emotion.

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Originally Posted by Corey View Post
Just so long as he's ahead of Miller, Toskala, Gerber, Thomas/Fernandez, Biron, Huet, Ward, Vokoun, DiPietro, etc.
I would take Miller, Biron, Huet, Ward, Vokoun, and Dipetro over Price currently.

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Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
You're just like all the rest of the people who think that Brodeur is god, when in fact, its the New Jersey Devil's defensive system that makes Brodeur a success. You put Brodeur on a struggling team like Toronto and he wouldn't do a damn thing.

The Devils have built a team and a system around Brodeurs un-orthodox style of goaltending and it has worked great, but to say that Brodeur is the #1 goalie in the league is bull. There are many other goalies out there who have more skill and are the reason for their team being successful. Brodeur is a good goalie, don't get me wrong....but people forget that most of his success comes from having a good defensive system in front of him that his whole team has bought into.

What has Price done in the NHL to deserve such high regard???? NOTHING!!!
I'm sick of everybody giving praise where it isn't due!! Price hasn't proved one thing in his NHL career and everything he has done before coming to the NHL means absolutely nothing as far as I'm concerned. Many players can excel in Junior, the World Juniors and even in the AHL and turn out to be nothing in the NHL. Its happened over and over. We've seen players lead the Canadian World Junior team to gold medals and not ever make and NHL team.
I'm not saying that this very thing will happen to Price, but I don't understand why everybody says he is soooo great when he hasn't proved a thing in the NHL. The only thing he proved so far is that he is only human and that even he can crumble and blow a playoff series for his team.....thats it.

People need to stop giving him an undeserved reputation as a great goalie in the NHL. Wait until he proves something and then brag him up and talk highly of him.....don't do it when he is still young and unproven.
Agreed completely man.


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09-17-2008, 10:08 AM
  #32
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Those are probably the only 2 behind Price that I might question as well.
Not DiPietro?

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09-17-2008, 10:16 AM
  #33
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Hahaha what a joke. That argument might have held some water when Brodeur had Neidermayer and Stevens in front of him and they were trapping teams to death in the height of the Dead Puck Era. Now he's got Paul Martin, Johnny Oduya, Sheldon Brookbank...I don't even know who else. Not to mention Brodeur has gone through multiple coaches with multiple systems and multiple players in front of him and always posted great numbers. All the while wearing street hockey sized pads.

It blows my mind that people still attribute the mythical "Devils system" to what makes Brodeur great despite the fact that it's been dead since at least the lockout.
HAHAHHAHA.....whatever dude. You obviously haven't watched too many Devils games. His defence almost always keeps the shots from out around the perimeter which makes for easy saves for Brodeur. Anybody can make routine saves when the shots come from the blueline.
And if Brodeur is the #1 goalie in the NHL, then why has he flopped so bad in the playoffs the last 3 years?? Truth is, he isn't the goalie he used to be....partially because he is getting older and partially because he doesn't have as good of defence in front of him anymore.

Nabokov deserved to win the Vezina this year....NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. He got robbed. Nabokov had better numbers than Brodeur in a number of statistics....but yet, somehow Brodeur won the award.

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09-17-2008, 10:21 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
And if Brodeur is the #1 goalie in the NHL, then why has he flopped so bad in the playoffs the last 3 years??
Dominik Hasek was the most dominant goaltender in the 90's, without question, bar none, but he couldn't win a Cup with a mediocre Buffalo Sabres on his shoulders. Oh well, guess he didn't deserve those Vezina's.

One player does not win a Stanley ****ing Cup. Stop making silly comments like that.

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09-17-2008, 10:22 AM
  #35
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Not DiPietro?
The guy canít even finish a season without throwing out his hip.

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09-17-2008, 10:30 AM
  #36
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HAHAHHAHA.....whatever dude. You obviously haven't watched too many Devils games. His defence almost always keeps the shots from out around the perimeter which makes for easy saves for Brodeur. Anybody can make routine saves when the shots come from the blueline.
And if Brodeur is the #1 goalie in the NHL, then why has he flopped so bad in the playoffs the last 3 years?? Truth is, he isn't the goalie he used to be....partially because he is getting older and partially because he doesn't have as good of defence in front of him anymore.

Nabokov deserved to win the Vezina this year....NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. He got robbed. Nabokov had better numbers than Brodeur in a number of statistics....but yet, somehow Brodeur won the award.
You ever hear about how the only reason they make the playoffs is because of Broduer. He is the only real source of high quality talent the Devils have. The reason they couldn't go deeper in the playoffs was because Broduer can do everything but score goals, which is what they needed.

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09-17-2008, 10:33 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
You're just like all the rest of the people who think that Brodeur is god, when in fact, its the New Jersey Devil's defensive system that makes Brodeur a success. You put Brodeur on a struggling team like Toronto and he wouldn't do a damn thing.

The Devils have built a team and a system around Brodeurs un-orthodox style of goaltending and it has worked great, but to say that Brodeur is the #1 goalie in the league is bull. There are many other goalies out there who have more skill and are the reason for their team being successful. Brodeur is a good goalie, don't get me wrong....but people forget that most of his success comes from having a good defensive system in front of him that his whole team has bought into.

What has Price done in the NHL to deserve such high regard???? NOTHING!!!
I'm sick of everybody giving praise where it isn't due!! Price hasn't proved one thing in his NHL career and everything he has done before coming to the NHL means absolutely nothing as far as I'm concerned. Many players can excel in Junior, the World Juniors and even in the AHL and turn out to be nothing in the NHL. Its happened over and over. We've seen players lead the Canadian World Junior team to gold medals and not ever make and NHL team.
I'm not saying that this very thing will happen to Price, but I don't understand why everybody says he is soooo great when he hasn't proved a thing in the NHL. The only thing he proved so far is that he is only human and that even he can crumble and blow a playoff series for his team.....thats it.

People need to stop giving him an undeserved reputation as a great goalie in the NHL. Wait until he proves something and then brag him up and talk highly of him.....don't do it when he is still young and unproven.
lol...I love debating stuff with you PH...you totally rock.

True Brodeur does play for a team that incorporates a defensive system. But that team has lost a lot of valuable pieces over the years and Brodeur's numbers have continued to be at or near the top.

He doesn't have a great defense in front of him anymore. There is no Scott Steven's, Scott Niedermayer, Ken Daneyko. They have been replaced by Paul Martin, Colin White, John Oduya. A pretty big drop off if you ask me.

As for Price, yes he is over rated by a lot of posters here, myself included. He also hasn't really proved anything so far, I will agree.

But from the following list, how many of these goalies would you rather have on our team for this year, and this year only. Forget about age, forget about contract. I've bolded the ones that I would pick.

ANA: J.S. Giguere
ATL: Kari Lehtonen
BOS: Manny Fernandez/Tim Thomas
BUF: Ryan Miller
CAL: Miikka Kiprusoff
CAR: Cam Ward
CHI: Cristobal Huet/Nikolai Khabibulin
COL: Peter Budaj/Andrew Raycroft
CLB: Pascal Leclaire
DAL: Marty Turco
DET: Chris Osgood
EDM: Mathieu Garon
FLA: Tomas Vokoun
LAK: Erik Ersberg/Jason LaBarbera
MIN: Niklas Backstrom
MTL: Carey Price
NSH: Dan Ellis
NJD: Martin Brodeur
NYI: Rick DiPietro
NYR: Henrik Lundqvist
OTT: Martin Gerber
PHI: Martin Biron
PHX: Ilya Bryzgalov
PIT: Marc-Andre Fleury
STL: Manny Legace/Chris Mason
SJS: Evgeni Nabokov
TBL: Mike Smith/Olaf Kolzig
TOR: Vesa Toskala
VAN: Roberto Luongo
WAS: Jose Theodore

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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Not DiPietro?
He's not a bad goalie, and he does have his moments. But for me he's just lacking something that I just can't put my finger on. But I would atleast admit that considering him to be ranked higher than Price, is definitely debatable.

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09-17-2008, 10:37 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
lol...I love debating stuff with you PH...you totally rock.

True Brodeur does play for a team that incorporates a defensive system. But that team has lost a lot of valuable pieces over the years and Brodeur's numbers have continued to be at or near the top.

He doesn't have a great defense in front of him anymore. There is no Scott Steven's, Scott Niedermayer, Ken Daneyko. They have been replaced by Paul Martin, Colin White, John Oduya. A pretty big drop off if you ask me.

As for Price, yes he is over rated by a lot of posters here, myself included. He also hasn't really proved anything so far, I will agree.

But from the following list, how many of these goalies would you rather have on our team for this year, and this year only. Forget about age, forget about contract. I've bolded the ones that I would pick.

ANA: J.S. Giguere
ATL: Kari Lehtonen
BOS: Manny Fernandez/Tim Thomas
BUF: Ryan Miller
CAL: Miikka Kiprusoff
CAR: Cam Ward
CHI: Cristobal Huet/Nikolai Khabibulin
COL: Peter Budaj/Andrew Raycroft
CLB: Pascal Leclaire
DAL: Marty Turco
DET: Chris Osgood
EDM: Mathieu Garon
FLA: Tomas Vokoun
LAK: Erik Ersberg/Jason LaBarbera
MIN: Niklas Backstrom
MTL: Carey Price
NSH: Dan Ellis
NJD: Martin Brodeur
NYI: Rick DiPietro
NYR: Henrik Lundqvist
OTT: Martin Gerber
PHI: Martin Biron
PHX: Ilya Bryzgalov
PIT: Marc-Andre Fleury
STL: Manny Legace/Chris Mason
SJS: Evgeni Nabokov
TBL: Mike Smith/Olaf Kolzig
TOR: Vesa Toskala
VAN: Roberto Luongo
WAS: Jose Theodore
You wouldn't take Dan Ellis? The guy proved he can put up serious saves in the playoffs after one year. He might not be tested for longevity, but he is a very decent investment.

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09-17-2008, 10:40 AM
  #39
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You wouldn't take Dan Ellis? The guy proved he can put up serious saves in the playoffs after one year. He might not be tested for longevity, but he is a very decent investment.
Just like I said to Natey about DiPietro. Both are good goalies, but I would still take Price over either one of them.

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09-17-2008, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
You're just like all the rest of the people who think that Brodeur is god, when in fact, its the New Jersey Devil's defensive system that makes Brodeur a success. You put Brodeur on a struggling team like Toronto and he wouldn't do a damn thing.

The Devils have built a team and a system around Brodeurs un-orthodox style of goaltending and it has worked great, but to say that Brodeur is the #1 goalie in the league is bull. There are many other goalies out there who have more skill and are the reason for their team being successful. Brodeur is a good goalie, don't get me wrong....but people forget that most of his success comes from having a good defensive system in front of him that his whole team has bought into.

What has Price done in the NHL to deserve such high regard???? NOTHING!!!
I'm sick of everybody giving praise where it isn't due!! Price hasn't proved one thing in his NHL career and everything he has done before coming to the NHL means absolutely nothing as far as I'm concerned. Many players can excel in Junior, the World Juniors and even in the AHL and turn out to be nothing in the NHL. Its happened over and over. We've seen players lead the Canadian World Junior team to gold medals and not ever make and NHL team.
I'm not saying that this very thing will happen to Price, but I don't understand why everybody says he is soooo great when he hasn't proved a thing in the NHL. The only thing he proved so far is that he is only human and that even he can crumble and blow a playoff series for his team.....thats it.

People need to stop giving him an undeserved reputation as a great goalie in the NHL. Wait until he proves something and then brag him up and talk highly of him.....don't do it when he is still young and unproven.
Price has definitely done something to earn his high regard with Hab fans and Sportswriters around the globe.

He came into the NHL and put up a tidy .920SV% He lead the Canadiens down the stretch into the playoffs. His SV% was also 6th in the league for goalies who ha splayed over 25 games. His GAA was also only .18 under Roberto Luongo while is SV% was .03 higher. Very comparable stats.

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09-17-2008, 10:46 AM
  #41
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I would probably have put Kiprusoff and Miller ahead of him but it's debatable.
of course its debatable....

we can have faith in Carey Price ... we know/hope that he will turn out to be the franchise goalie we have been waiting for...

but until he brings the cup here, you have to put him behind a guy like ward... it's just like that... IMO...

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09-17-2008, 10:50 AM
  #42
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Just so long as he's ahead of Miller, Toskala, Gerber, Thomas/Fernandez, Biron, Huet, Ward, Vokoun, DiPietro, etc.
I would put them in front of him at the start of the season... we'll see at season's end...

Let's not overrate him again... remember he's only 21 and half a season in his body...

In 3 or 4 years, I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the top 5 even 3, but now, let's not kid ourself, it's a question mark about how good he is...

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Price has definitely done something to earn his high regard with Hab fans and Sportswriters around the globe.

He came into the NHL and put up a tidy .920SV% He lead the Canadiens down the stretch into the playoffs. His SV% was also 6th in the league for goalies who ha splayed over 25 games. His GAA was also only .18 under Roberto Luongo while is SV% was .03 higher. Very comparable stats.
He did it over half a year... Luongo did it over half a career... never forget that...

His talent is huge, but he hasn't prove enough to warrant such a comparaison


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09-17-2008, 10:56 AM
  #43
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He did it over half a year... Luongo did it over half a career... never forget that...

His talent is huge, but he hasn't prove enough to warrant such a comparaison
Absolutely, I'm a big Price fan. But his name should be not be said in the same sentence as Luongo. Unless it's to say he might have the potential to be as good as him in the future.

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09-17-2008, 10:59 AM
  #44
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What a joke!!!!!
First of all...Brodeur isn't the #1 goalie in the league. Luongo and Turco are ahead of him IMO. Second of all, Price is far from being the 8th best goalie in the league. There are tons of goalies that are light years ahead of him. The kid still has a lot to prove.

Don't get me wrong, I like Price and think he has the potential to be a great NHL goalie someday, but he's not there yet.....he has a lot of work ahead of him before he will earn my vote. His lack-luster play in the playoffs last year and the fact that he had a few bad games tells me that his mental game needs work. He needs to learn how to handle the pressure of the NHL and all its critics.
Your metaphors amuse me. There are 2000 pounds in a ton, so for each ton there are about 10 goaltenders. Maybe 1 ton's worth, but certainly not 2 (equivalent to 20) ahead of him. As for light years, how did those goaltenders travel that far (a light year is the distance light travels in a vacuum in 1 year), and how could Price possibly ever catch them, even with his "potential to be a great NHL goalie some day"? Surely he's a little closer than you say, and by the end of the season he may have closed a lot of the (astronomical) distance.

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09-17-2008, 11:02 AM
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I'm not concerned about him being classified #1. I agree that he's young.

As to proving himself, don't they all have to do that on a yearly or even game-to-game basis? Even Brodeur's being considered #1 is always challenged by the others.

By the way, I still feel that Lundquist is over-rated. He is really good but I don't think he's as good as he's classified here. I don't have very much upon which to base my opinion so, an opinion only it remains.
he has been top 3 in vezina trophy every year he has been in the league.

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Absolutely, I'm a big Price fan. But his name should be not be said in the same sentence as Luongo. Unless it's to say he might have the potential to be as good as him in the future.
Luongo hasn't done anything in his career to warrant the accolades he gets. He has had 2 standout seasons, but it seems for every standout year he has, he just pisses it away with a year like last season.


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09-17-2008, 11:08 AM
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Luongo hasn't done anything in his career to warrant the accolades he gets. He has had 2 standout seasons, but it seems for every standout year he has, he just pisses it away with a year like last season.
Oh yeah, he was really **** last year with an ahl level defence in front of him and still finishing top 10 in all categories... I would love to have **** goalies like him playing in Mtl...

Luongo can't win a Stanley cup all by himself... that doesn't make him a bad goalie... or even an average one...

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09-17-2008, 11:14 AM
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Oh yeah, he was really **** last year with an ahl level defence in front of him and still finishing top 10 in all categories... I would love to have **** goalies like him playing in Mtl...

Luongo can't win a Stanley cup all by himself... that doesn't make him a bad goalie... or even an average one...
AHL defence my ass. During the final month of the season (where Luongo was the worst regular goalie in the season) his defence was Salo, Bieksa, Mitchell, Bourdon and Edler. If that's AHL defence then slap my ass and call me Nancy.

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09-17-2008, 11:16 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
I would put them in front of him at the start of the season... we'll see at season's end...

Let's not overrate him again... remember he's only 21 and half a season in his body...

In 3 or 4 years, I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the top 5 even 3, but now, let's not kid ourself, it's a question mark about how good he is...
Huet (one of the names you suggested) has a history of folding in the crunch. He had a 2 game lead against Carolina in 2006 but was outplayed by a rookie, he couldn't hold a 1-goal lead for the Habs against Toronto in 2007, and for the Caps he lost the 7th game to Philly in 2008. Nice goaltender but not a money plasyer.

I think you're being too cautious in your estimate of how many years it would take Price to be considered an elite goaltender (there can be more than 5 playing at the same time). It didn't take Tom Barrasso very long, and that's the closest comparison I can think of. Price's record with the Habs was more than merely good in the regular season. While he was erratic in the playoffs, let's not overlook that he recorded 2 shutouts against the Bruins.

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09-17-2008, 01:15 PM
  #49
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Fans are fickle. They loved him when he was riding high and now they're down on him. Think about his best games last season. Quite a few regular goaltenders in the NHL aren't capable of doing what he did in those games.

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09-17-2008, 01:27 PM
  #50
Habs10Habs
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Luongo hasn't done anything in his career to warrant the accolades he gets. He has had 2 standout seasons, but it seems for every standout year he has, he just pisses it away with a year like last season.
In terms of wins and loses I will agree with you. But having a career 2.60 Avg and a save percentage of .920 after 460 games. While playing on some awful teams, shows me that he does deserve the majority of the accolades he receives.

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