Agreed! I not sold with O'Byrne just yet. He may need an other year.
Is Buillon the odd man out. He did paired up well with Georges. We will see.
Well that would be exactly the point of having him with Hammer for the entire season. So he can develop. He was +7 in his first 33 NHL games last season.
Yes, he needs work, still, an entire season would do exactly that, fix his positioning, fix his first pass, make him accostumed to longer shifts and more icetime. And Hammer is perfect for that.
I was one of the guys advocating getting a top 4 Dman in the offseason, but the more I think about it, the more I feel like OB should get his shot at a full season on the second pairing, especially if we have Gorges and Bouillon on the 3rd pairing.
And the most urgent reason to do so, is that next year, we might have Valentenko, Carle and Emelin battling for 2 D-spots. You can't have OB not ready to go full steam by then. He has to develop this year, so next year we can concentrate on the two others that will be coming over.
Obvious? I disagree. I think Kovalev would be more likely to be moved in this deal than Koivu. Same salary, winger, plays a similar role to Gaborik...
Kovalev doesn't solve a problem for Minny though, because he's also unrestricted. If the Habs want to trade for Gaborik, any deal will HAVE to include Andrei Kostitsyn. He opens up a winger spot for Gaborik, as well as freeing up some cap space and providing Minny with a rising star signed cheap for 3 years.
On top of that, the Habs would have to waive Dandenault (and not replace his roster spot, keeping only 1 forward and 1 D in the press box) as well as replace Bouillon with a rookie (Carle/Valentenko/rotation of both). Those moves would leave the Habs with about 700k of cap space for the year. Any throw-ins in the AK for Gaborik would have to be a wash, salary wise.
Even if the Habs get agreement on an extension before making a deal like this, I'm not sure I would risk the lack of defensive depth just to upgrade from Kostitsyn to Gaborik...
Considering what Atlanta got for Hossa, I can't understand why people keep mentionning Andrei Kostitsyn as a possible return. Unless a trade would happen before the start of the season, there's just no way that Minnesota receives a young stud like him for an upcoming free agent during the year. And even then, if there's no insurance of keeping Gaborik after this season, I wouldn't want the team to move A.Kost like that.
Kovalev doesn't solve a problem for Minny though, because he's also unrestricted. If the Habs want to trade for Gaborik, any deal will HAVE to include Andrei Kostitsyn. He opens up a winger spot for Gaborik, as well as freeing up some cap space and providing Minny with a rising star signed cheap for 3 years.
On top of that, the Habs would have to waive Dandenault (and not replace his roster spot, keeping only 1 forward and 1 D in the press box) as well as replace Bouillon with a rookie (Carle/Valentenko/rotation of both). Those moves would leave the Habs with about 700k of cap space for the year. Any throw-ins in the AK for Gaborik would have to be a wash, salary wise.
Even if the Habs get agreement on an extension before making a deal like this, I'm not sure I would risk the lack of defensive depth just to upgrade from Kostitsyn to Gaborik...
You have a crystal ball???
The only way the Habs would do that is IF they have a contract extention with Gaborik agreed upon.
Do you actually realize that Minny is not in the best of position to ask a lot? Just like Atlanta last season. All the GMs know that Minny is having a hard time with Gaborik in the contract negociations.
This is not EA's NHL 2009, it is not full value for full value. There are a lot more factors going into this. And anyway, it wouldn't make any sense for the Habs to do this before at least halfway through the season.
Look at what Florida got for Jokinen. Look at what Tampa Bay got for Richards.
The only way the Habs would do that is IF they have a contract extention with Gaborik agreed upon.
I agree 100%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias
Do you actually realize that Minny is not in the best of position to ask a lot? Just like Atlanta last season. All the GMs know that Minny is having a hard time with Gaborik in the contract negociations.
Also true. But do you actually realize that Montreal is not in a position to take on Gaborik's salary? Even if the Habs were to offer MacDonough, Pacioretty, Subban, Weber, Halak, 23 first round draft picks and George Gillette's first born son, they can't fit him under the cap. Any other forwards on the team making real money are UFA at the end of the season, so they don't help Minny's problem of losing a star player for nothing.
I have a hard time believing that BG would do that. I think that we need to put our money and prospects in another player. Gabby is an excellent player, but our need for the Future is a centreman. SAku and Lang might be not here next here; thus, we will most probably have a big need in that position. Whatever you give for a gabby could land you a carter for example.
What if Gainey really see's Chipchura in the line-up ?
What if he traded for Lang to replace Koivu ?
Has for Komisarek, he is a great leader and he's not afraid of anything, but is he THAT good ?
Whenever he was'nt playing with Markov last year he had a lot of difficulties. I'm just saying that he is a good fit for Markov but it is Markov that makes him the player that he is like. I think that it was Markov that putted Souray and Streit and the Habs power play over the top and he could have the same effect on Komisarek.
So if Komi has good trade value and you could land a Gaborik with him, I would trade him.
Also true. But do you actually realize that Montreal is not in a position to take on Gaborik's salary? Even if the Habs were to offer MacDonough, Pacioretty, Subban, Weber, Halak, 23 first round draft picks and George Gillette's first born son, they can't fit him under the cap. Any other forwards on the team making real money are UFA at the end of the season, so they don't help Minny's problem of losing a star player for nothing.
Did you actually read my previous posts where I mention several times that it would only make sense for the Habs to do this around trade deadline?
I guess not
And sorry, it's not common sense. Minny could be asking for MaxPac or for Sergei or Higgins instead of Akost. To pretend that you know they would ask for AKost and AKost only before any other player in our pool is just blinded arrogance.
Jeeze, why didn't Florida ask for better than they got, why didn't Tampa get better for Richards?? Get off your high horse and realize you don't know what's going on in Risebrough's head.
Quote:
Originally Posted by durojean
What if Gainey really see's Chipchura in the line-up ?
What if he traded for Lang to replace Koivu ?
Has for Komisarek, he is a great leader and he's not afraid of anything, but is he THAT good ?
Whenever he was'nt playing with Markov last year he had a lot of difficulties. I'm just saying that he is a good fit for Markov but it is Markov that makes him the player that he is like. I think that it was Markov that putted Souray and Streit and the Habs power play over the top and he could have the same effect on Komisarek.
So if Komi has good trade value and you could land a Gaborik with him, I would trade him.
Funny, according to some misguided souls around here, Komi is the one that makes Markov better. Yet the Habs were 7-1 without Komi... and are awful without Markov.
Last edited by Beakermania*: 09-18-2008 at 01:42 PM.
IMO a that would be the type of trade where Higgins should be included in the proposal, he is a jaques Lemaire type player, alot more then A.Kost, witch is rediculous to trade him with his brother here and his overall potential is anywhere right now.
To pretend that you know they would ask for AKost and AKost only before any other player in our pool is just blinded arrogance.
If you're going to accuse others of not reading your posts, be sure you read their's...
I'm not saying that AKost is the first player Minny would ask for. What I am saying is that it takes two teams to make a trade, and none of the other players names being thrown around fit BOTH teams needs.
As for any trade making more sense at the deadline, I agree fully. My only problem is that most reports out there seem to suggest that Gaborik is more likely to be traded at the start of the season.
Personally, I agree with the poster above who said that the Hab's assets could be put to better use towards a centre.
Funny, according to some misguided souls around here, Komi is the one that makes Markov better. Yet the Habs were 7-1 without Komi... and are awful without Markov.
Don't start blaming people because you can't see that Komisarek gives Markov alot more space to work offensively
Agreed! I not sold with O'Byrne just yet. He may need an other year.
Is Buillon the odd man out. He did paired up well with Georges. We will see.
I like Bouillon, Gorges and OByrne fine as a regular season 4,5,6, they did great in the second half of last season and should start this one on that note. BUT the habs still need another vet D man around incase someone goes down. We would be finished in the playoffs if Markov, Komisarik, or Hamrlik got injured (maybe even Gorges at this point) and Briesbois replaces them, he's too soft and error prone in the D zone, need a veteren guy who's stronger, more reliable and knows some tricks, preferrably a canadian who will play his heart out for the cup too.
I like Bouillon, Gorges and OByrne fine as a regular season 4,5,6, they did great in the second half of last season and should start this one on that note. BUT the habs still need another vet D man around incase someone goes down. We would be finished in the playoffs if Markov, Komisarik, or Hamrlik got injured (maybe even Gorges at this point) and Briesbois replaces them, he's too soft and error prone in the D zone, need a veteren guy who's stronger, more reliable and knows some tricks, preferrably a canadian who will play his heart out for the cup too.
As of Today, we have 8th Dman because Dandenault is still considered a D.
We do not need any Veteran D, Markov-Hamrlik-Bouillon-Brisebois are all good veterans, Dandy is a veteran but he sucks. Komisarek is not a youngster anymore, he's got his share of experience as well. That leaves O'Byrne and Gorges as our youngsters.
Everybody keep saying we need a 4th D, saying they're not sold on O'Byrne yet and I don't blame them, kid only has 33GP. But nobody speaks of Gorges as 4th. He came a long way last season and proved to be a solid D, I wouldn't be surprised if its him Gainey/Carbo see as our 4th.
O'Byrne would then pair up with Bouillon to make a duo that would be sure to crush some opposing fowards against the boards.
I think that's the plan, even if Gorges and Hamrlik are both lefties. Unless O'Byrne really shows tremendous improvement, I see him getting paired with Hamrlik to gain experience, but if Gorges is as far ahead of O'Byrne as he was last year, he'll get the spot IMO.
I like Bouillon, Gorges and OByrne fine as a regular season 4,5,6, they did great in the second half of last season and should start this one on that note. BUT the habs still need another vet D man around incase someone goes down. We would be finished in the playoffs if Markov, Komisarik, or Hamrlik got injured (maybe even Gorges at this point) and Briesbois replaces them, he's too soft and error prone in the D zone, need a veteren guy who's stronger, more reliable and knows some tricks, preferrably a canadian who will play his heart out for the cup too.
Just wondering if you watched Brisebois in the playoffs last year? I just rewatched a few games to get warmed up for the season and to me he did an above average job. Probably why he got resigned.
Considering what Atlanta got for Hossa, I can't understand why people keep mentionning Andrei Kostitsyn as a possible return. Unless a trade would happen before the start of the season, there's just no way that Minnesota receives a young stud like him for an upcoming free agent during the year. And even then, if there's no insurance of keeping Gaborik after this season, I wouldn't want the team to move A.Kost like that.
That was a deadline deal which makes a difference. He would cost a fair bit less at the deadline but for a whole season.....
Lapierre/Chipchura, McDonagh and a 1st would be what I would be willing to offer at the deadline.
Minnesota would probably express a lot of interest in McDonagh as he is a local boy and is a solid blue chip prospect. This deal is a lot similar to the value Atlanta got for Hossa, who IMO, is a better player than Gaborik.
Don't start blaming people because you can't see that Komisarek gives Markov alot more space to work offensively
You can put any Defensive Dman with an Offensive Dman and it'll make the Offensive Dman take more chances. This has nothing to do with the name of either Ds, it's simple logic.
But Komisarek did developed into a solid Dman, so Markov feels a lot more comfortable and trusts him a lot more now.
Markov had just as good seasons if not better in terms of pts when Komi was still young and quite bad.
Markov is our key defender, put anybody by his side and he'll make them look a lot better than they are.
Komisarek completes Markov perfectly. He's a stay at home, he's become more solid in his own end, and he's got a huge body.
But without Markov, Komisarek wouldn't look as good.
Without Komi, Markov still shines.
If you're going to accuse others of not reading your posts, be sure you read their's...
I'm not saying that AKost is the first player Minny would ask for. What I am saying is that it takes two teams to make a trade, and none of the other players names being thrown around fit BOTH teams needs.
As for any trade making more sense at the deadline, I agree fully. My only problem is that most reports out there seem to suggest that Gaborik is more likely to be traded at the start of the season.
Personally, I agree with the poster above who said that the Hab's assets could be put to better use towards a centre.
Yeah, that's probably why you wrote this :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckles30
If the Habs want to trade for Gaborik, any deal will HAVE to include Andrei Kostitsyn.
Gimme a break. You didn't read mine, yet you accuse me of doing the same, yet I quoted that post in my first reply to you. Now go ahead, make up a pityful excuse to try and save face for that quote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac
Don't start blaming people because you can't see that Komisarek gives Markov alot more space to work offensively
Who am I blaming? What can I not see? You aren't even able to make the difference between what you just said and what I actually said. No duh, Komi gives him more space, like always you're the big genius around here. Wow, I never even once realized that!!! Now get your head out of the lowest sphinxter of your body and realize that I was talking about the people who say that Komi is better defensively than Markov, which is far from the truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E
You can put any Defensive Dman with an Offensive Dman and it'll make the Offensive Dman take more chances. This has nothing to do with the name of either Ds, it's simple logic.
But Komisarek did developed into a solid Dman, so Markov feels a lot more comfortable and trusts him a lot more now.
Markov had just as good seasons if not better in terms of pts when Komi was still young and quite bad.
Markov is our key defender, put anybody by his side and he'll make them look a lot better than they are.
Komisarek completes Markov perfectly. He's a stay at home, he's become more solid in his own end, and he's got a huge body.
But without Markov, Komisarek wouldn't look as good.
Without Komi, Markov still shines.
That's the bottom line.
Thanks Kriss.
My point exactly
Last edited by Beakermania*: 09-18-2008 at 01:43 PM.
to all the suggestions of trading our impending UFAs for Minnesota's impending UFA.
