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Phaneuf Should Be Paired With Regehr

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Old
09-14-2008, 05:02 PM
  #1
abracanada
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Phaneuf Should Be Paired With Regehr

It raises the quality of play for the overall team. You could see coasting taking place last year with some of the defenders. Sarich had spells where he coasted depending on Regehr, and Eriksson/Aucoin had periods where they coasted playing with Phaneuf.

An interesting Blog about pairings and how Phaneuf was pulled down by his partner is Five Hole Fanatics and it has some comparisons.

http://fiveholefanatics.blogspot.com...n-phaneuf.html

Spreading the talent around, sets a lower standard for all. If Aucoin and Sarich slack off in the second pairing, they are immediately accountable. They cannot coast on someone elses coattails.

Scotty Bowman criticized Keenan for not pairing Phaneuf with Regehr.

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09-14-2008, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by abracanada View Post
It raises the quality of play for the overall team. You could see coasting taking place last year with some of the defenders. Sarich had spells where he coasted depending on Regehr, and Eriksson/Aucoin had periods where they coasted playing with Phaneuf.

An interesting Blog about pairings and how Phaneuf was pulled down by his partner is Five Hole Fanatics and it has some comparisons.

http://fiveholefanatics.blogspot.com...n-phaneuf.html

Spreading the talent around, sets a lower standard for all. If Aucoin and Sarich slack off in the second pairing, they are immediately accountable. They cannot coast on someone elses coattails.

Scotty Bowman criticized Keenan for not pairing Phaneuf with Regehr.
except Aucoin & Sarich both play the same side as right handed defensemen... and as far as I know neither play their opposite side... if the Flames were to put Regehr with Phaneuf then they would very likely be forced to have Vandermeer or Giordano playing a top 4 role at even strength... and lets face it that was the biggest problem with Eriksson... top 4 time when he is a bottom pairing defenseman

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09-15-2008, 11:49 AM
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Vandermeer and Eriksson were top 4 dman for the majority of the year last year! So it's not like it hasn't happened before. I don't think Regehr and Phaneuf are good partners but who knows. I'm sure the staff has thought about it. The only times the play together is for a big pk at the end of a game they are winning or the last shift of a game they trying to hold on to the lead in.

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09-15-2008, 03:46 PM
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Vandermeer and Eriksson were top 4 dman for the majority of the year last year! So it's not like it hasn't happened before. I don't think Regehr and Phaneuf are good partners but who knows. I'm sure the staff has thought about it. The only times the play together is for a big pk at the end of a game they are winning or the last shift of a game they trying to hold on to the lead in.
and where did Vandermeer and Eriksson playing in the top 4 get us last year

and I want to comment on Scotty Bowman... he would have no idea whether Phaneuf & Regehr should be paired together... it all depends on the dynamics of the corps itself... it depends on the strengths and weaknesses of the other defenders... it depends on their versatility... it depends on alot of things... I understand Scotty Bowman is a hockey god... but he has no business commenting on players and decisions where he does not know everything behind the decision he is criticizing... very unprofessional if you ask me

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09-15-2008, 05:36 PM
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its been tried i believe , they just dont mesh well on the ice...

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09-15-2008, 05:59 PM
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its been tried i believe , they just dont mesh well on the ice...

Very short term and in pre-season. Hardly a sufficient guage.

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09-15-2008, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by abracanada View Post
Very short term and in pre-season. Hardly a sufficient guage.
I thought it was tried briefly after Leopold was moved and Regehr came back from an injury... it only lasted a couple games but if I recall correctly it did not go well at all

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09-15-2008, 11:44 PM
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I thought it was tried briefly after Leopold was moved and Regehr came back from an injury... it only lasted a couple games but if I recall correctly it did not go well at all
They are both different players now. I think Phaneuf really suffered last year with Eriksson with him. Regehr there and his confidence would soar.

I believe that would be the way to raise the bar for the entire defensive core. Some defensively aware backchecking forwards with speed is going to help too. Something they sorely missed last year.

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09-16-2008, 12:39 AM
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itd be worth a try

but like stated above there would be no room for sarich-aucoin to slack off if that was to become the second pairing. unless gio has improved enough to take a spot in the top4

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09-16-2008, 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by abracanada View Post
They are both different players now. I think Phaneuf really suffered last year with Eriksson with him. Regehr there and his confidence would soar.

I believe that would be the way to raise the bar for the entire defensive core. Some defensively aware backchecking forwards with speed is going to help too. Something they sorely missed last year.
its hard to say... Regehr seems to struggle if he can't find good chemistry with his partner

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09-16-2008, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abracanada View Post
They are both different players now. I think Phaneuf really suffered last year with Eriksson with him. Regehr there and his confidence would soar.

I believe that would be the way to raise the bar for the entire defensive core. Some defensively aware backchecking forwards with speed is going to help too. Something they sorely missed last year.
if by struggling you mean a norris trophy nominee then holy cow what would not struggling look like ? lol

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09-16-2008, 07:40 PM
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if by struggling you mean a norris trophy nominee then holy cow what would not struggling look like ? lol
Sky is the limit with a guy like Phaneuf. Who knows, maybe a Norris over Lidstrom while Lidstrom is still a force. Wouldn't that be something?

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09-17-2008, 02:47 AM
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Not a bad idea, but Sarich and Aucoin have both been known to have on ice brain farts, and really weakens the second pairing. As long as they kept their heads in the game this would work, but the way they played last year, Aucoin-Sarich isn't looking so good.

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09-17-2008, 12:30 PM
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I don't think an Aucoin-Sarich pairing would work. Neither are fleet of foot and both are inconsistent. I also don't like 2 right handed shots playing together on the same pairing, although it does work in Dallas. Perhaps Gio can step up and take the second pairing role with Sarich and put Aucoin with Vandermeer (as they did play together at the end of the season).

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09-17-2008, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abracanada View Post
They are both different players now. I think Phaneuf really suffered last year with Eriksson with him. Regehr there and his confidence would soar.

I believe that would be the way to raise the bar for the entire defensive core. Some defensively aware backchecking forwards with speed is going to help too. Something they sorely missed last year.
I think quite the opposite happened, Playing with Eriksson forced Phaneuf to be more responsible defensively and in essence really boosting his career along. I don't think it matters who you pair Phaneuf with now because he's raised his game to that level where the other Defenceman is just filling a spot. But you have to have your 25 minute defenceman on seperate lines, eg Neidermayer and Pronger. Two incredibly tough d lines that make up almost the entire game in Ice time. If your not going up against one your going up against the other.

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09-17-2008, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by abracanada View Post
Sky is the limit with a guy like Phaneuf. Who knows, maybe a Norris over Lidstrom while Lidstrom is still a force. Wouldn't that be something?
And that something would be called dreaming... No one will beat Lidstrom while he's still playing Phaneuf will win a lot of Norris' I think in his career but he's gonna have to wait his turn... Theres already 1 Lidstrom in the League

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09-17-2008, 10:43 PM
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Not a bad idea, but Sarich and Aucoin have both been known to have on ice brain farts, and really weakens the second pairing. As long as they kept their heads in the game this would work, but the way they played last year, Aucoin-Sarich isn't looking so good.
That is precisely why they should not be on a pairing with a top flight defender. They need to be held accountable and they can't coast knowing that Phaneuf or Regehr will be getting plenty of ice time. These brain farts are dragging the top guys down and killing momentum.

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09-17-2008, 10:52 PM
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That is precisely why they should not be on a pairing with a top flight defender. They need to be held accountable and they can't coast knowing that Phaneuf or Regehr will be getting plenty of ice time. These brain farts are dragging the top guys down and killing momentum.
That is true, but imagine these two playing together as a pairing. Regehr and Phaneuf are carrying these two right now, and without them, they could be much worse. Two farts don't make a right... or does it?

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09-17-2008, 10:53 PM
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I think quite the opposite happened, Playing with Eriksson forced Phaneuf to be more responsible defensively and in essence really boosting his career along. I don't think it matters who you pair Phaneuf with now because he's raised his game to that level where the other Defenceman is just filling a spot. But you have to have your 25 minute defenceman on seperate lines, eg Neidermayer and Pronger. Two incredibly tough d lines that make up almost the entire game in Ice time. If your not going up against one your going up against the other.
Hmm, why didn't Detroit think of that and get some slouch to play with Lidstrom? Why bother complementing these guys with decent accompaniments when they can do it all and get this, it only makes them better doing it. Wow. Detroit pairs their top defenders together. There is that old Scotty Bowman influence for you but what does he know?

Yes, Anaheim split them up but Pronger came along as a talent while paired with one of the best mentors in the game, Al McInnis. Those two didn't do too bad while they were together. Regehr is a premium shut down guy. Add that element to Phaneuf's repertoir and the comparisons with Lydman do not seem so far fetched after all.

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09-17-2008, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mcoupertrooper View Post
That is true, but imagine these two playing together as a pairing. Regehr and Phaneuf are carrying these two right now, and without them, they could be much worse. Two farts don't make a right... or does it?
Both of these guys have had their good days. Aucoin was pretty much a top guy in his day. On some nights last year, he looked worth every penny. Instead of being the number 3 and 4 guys, what would be wrong with having to earn his ice time and competing with youngsters instead of coasting with an all star? Sarich as well had moments of brilliant play, towards the end of the playoffs especially. These guys dont seem to play well in the shadow of a great defender. Especially when they continually run into the top talent for significant stretches of the evening, like they do in a system that spreads their best defenders over two pairings. Exposing your team by this half a loaf approach, extends the exposure of vulnerable players to top flight talent. That second pairing could be one that you reward players who are performing well as a pair with quality ice time. Another advantage, would be to avoid the disruption of breaking up your top pairing by experiments like Eriksson. There was a nightmare looking for a place to happen.

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09-18-2008, 02:33 AM
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Hmm, why didn't Detroit think of that and get some slouch to play with Lidstrom?
Because they were smart enough to part ways with Eriksson 10 years ago?

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09-18-2008, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by abracanada View Post
Hmm, why didn't Detroit think of that and get some slouch to play with Lidstrom? Why bother complementing these guys with decent accompaniments when they can do it all and get this, it only makes them better doing it. Wow. Detroit pairs their top defenders together. There is that old Scotty Bowman influence for you but what does he know?

Yes, Anaheim split them up but Pronger came along as a talent while paired with one of the best mentors in the game, Al McInnis. Those two didn't do too bad while they were together. Regehr is a premium shut down guy. Add that element to Phaneuf's repertoir and the comparisons with Lydman do not seem so far fetched after all.
Ok that covers 25 minutes of the game where there Defence is absolutely dominating... Now you have 35 minutes remaining with sub par d men... Good thinking , have 25 minutes of good hockey and throw Kiprusoff under the bus for the other 35. Thats a good way to help raise his confidence and his stats.

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09-18-2008, 05:07 PM
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Ok that covers 25 minutes of the game where there Defence is absolutely dominating... Now you have 35 minutes remaining with sub par d men... Good thinking , have 25 minutes of good hockey and throw Kiprusoff under the bus for the other 35. Thats a good way to help raise his confidence and his stats.
Of course, you are oversimplifying the hell out of it but what you propose is throw him under the bus, all game long. When the top lines are on or off the ice, someone who is hiding behind a star is out there waiting to make a mistake.

The Flames forwards have a false sense of security with the quality guys split up. False security if you look at last year. What is wrong with the forwards knowing they have to be careful defensively as well, and especially when the bottom pairings are out there?

If you keep hiding your weaknesses, you don't address them. It is as simple as that.

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