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Old
09-22-2008, 01:41 PM
  #26
HockeyBasedNYC
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
the thing i see is the large similarities bewtween dubinsky and him....same age....abou the same size....play with a lot of energy.....not afraid to drop the gloves.....i know he has never gotten consistent time on the top-2 lines but withthe way the top-2 lines are being assembled a player like callahan, dubi or fritsche would be a perfect fit to add some grit and sandpaper to those lines.....it doesnt mean he is a legit top-2 line player, but he fits the need which could boost his learning curve(look at dubi)
True, we'll get a better read of how he plays the next few weeks - but im hesitant to compare him to Dubi just yet. Anyone of those guys could move up if need be though, youre right.

SupersonicMonkey (great name btw) - I dont feel Dubinsky is being "wasted" on the third line. Did you feel that way about Drury last season?

I'm not disputing your ideas for the third line, they all could work - but I like the idea of spreading out the middle of the ice with Gomez-Drury and Dubinsky.

We may very well see a combination like any one of those later in the year if things dont work out. But i think that the third line of Fritsche-Dubi-Cally is going to get about the same minutes as the second line anyway.

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09-22-2008, 02:05 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
True, we'll get a better read of how he plays the next few weeks - but im hesitant to compare him to Dubi just yet. Anyone of those guys could move up if need be though, youre right.

SupersonicMonkey (great name btw) - I dont feel Dubinsky is being "wasted" on the third line. Did you feel that way about Drury last season?

I'm not disputing your ideas for the third line, they all could work - but I like the idea of spreading out the middle of the ice with Gomez-Drury and Dubinsky.

We may very well see a combination like any one of those later in the year if things dont work out. But i think that the third line of Fritsche-Dubi-Cally is going to get about the same minutes as the second line anyway.
I felt Drury was being wasted somewhat on the third line. But he was still incredibly productive from that spot.

I like Fritsche, i like his versatility and his speed. I like Korpikoski for the same reasons.

The thing with all of this is that if Dubinsky is on the third line, along with Callahan, there is no chance for someone like Korpikoski to earn a spot out of camp. And, i think the team would benefit from having Korpikoski.

And then again, what of Prucha? He still has something to add to this team, as well.

Renney and his staff really have their work cut out for them.


The way i see it is this, if Dubinsky is on the second line, you bump Drury to a wing and instantly have two solid lines at the top.

This opens up a spot on the third line.

If you drop Callahan to the 4th line, adding skill and speed to that line, which the Rangers claim they want the 4th line to be more skillful and productive.

That would open another spot on the 3rd line. Then you can add BOTH Prucha AND Korpikoski. Add Sjostrom's speed and defense to the 4th line. And only sacrifice guys who have VERY limited ability anyway (Orr and Voros).

Now your team is fast, skilled, versatile, and solid defensively, too.


Orr and Voros can be used when necessary.

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09-22-2008, 02:32 PM
  #28
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Monkey-

Its nice to think that a lineup like that would work, and it might.

But I dont see Renney dropping Cally to the 4th, neither do I see Voros and Orr sitting at the same time. One of the weaknesses of the team is size, i think its almost a given that youll see either Voros or Orr in the lineup.

When you have Zherdev, Gomez, Naslund, Prucha, Drury, Dawes, etc. getting targeted you need someone to do the dirty work and thats what Voros and Orr are there for, so Dubinsky doesnt have to (try to).

I really want to see Korpikoski in the lineup as well, and he might make the fourth line, possibly the 3rd. But is he being mismanaged on the 4th as would Callahan? I think so. I can see Korpikoski get called up in a heart beat if theres an injury or demotion of Callahan or Fritsche. Thats the beauty of having that type of depth.

As far as Sjostrom goes, I was giddy over him last year because they needed some speed and skill down on the bottom two lines. But right now hes got to show a lot more if he wants to make this team. I think there could be a spot for him, but its got to be on the 4th line right now. I think hed be capable of that with either a Voros or Orr on his opposite wing.

As much as i like him, Korpo, Fritsche and Callahan are all above him on the depth chart right now, the thing that might save his ass though is his experience on the 4th line. the Rangers most likely wont have Korpo on the fourth, but then again I could be very wrong with all of this.

Whats hilarious is Rissmiller, where the **** he fits in i have NO IDEA.


Last edited by HockeyBasedNYC: 09-22-2008 at 02:37 PM.
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09-22-2008, 03:04 PM
  #29
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i gotta laugh. anyone who wants to put a promising youngster like korpedo or even cally on the 4th line doesnt get it. the 4th line does NOT take a regular shift. they get skipped alot. they play less minutes and the shifts are shorter. we are not going to "roll 4 lines" unless you consider going out for 25 sec and then coming off when theres a face off or a stoppage getting a "shift". 4th liners dont play the pp and come off immediately if we get one. no one wants any youth on the 4th line playing so few minutes. wouldnt we rather have them in hartford developing and playing more meaningful minutes.

guys like rismiller, sjo, orr and betts ARE 4th line types already.

the impact lines are always the top 9 guys on every team. 4th line guys are checkers, muckers, instigators and fighters and guys with lobster claws in their gloves.

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09-22-2008, 03:50 PM
  #30
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If Korps and/or Cally were on a fourth line, they would take a regular shift. Not 10 minutes per game, but 8+ minutes isn't out of the question. And if Cally is on the fourth line, it's a testament to the team's depth. If Korps in on a fourth line it just means that he's learned all he can in HFD and the organization feels he's better getting a regular shift in the NHL, perhaps getting into different game situations, bouncing around lines, but at least in the lineup everyday. Jagr started his career on a fourth line, so it's a method that isn't totally untested. Buried on a fourth line is one thing; 8+ minutes, which is what Hollweg averaged and Renney showed how it could be close to 10 minutes, is another.

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09-22-2008, 04:45 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Its nice to think that a lineup like that would work, and it might.

But I dont see Renney dropping Cally to the 4th, neither do I see Voros and Orr sitting at the same time. One of the weaknesses of the team is size, i think its almost a given that youll see either Voros or Orr in the lineup.

When you have Zherdev, Gomez, Naslund, Prucha, Drury, Dawes, etc. getting targeted you need someone to do the dirty work and thats what Voros and Orr are there for, so Dubinsky doesnt have to (try to).

I really want to see Korpikoski in the lineup as well, and he might make the fourth line, possibly the 3rd. But is he being mismanaged on the 4th as would Callahan? I think so. I can see Korpikoski get called up in a heart beat if theres an injury or demotion of Callahan or Fritsche. Thats the beauty of having that type of depth.

As far as Sjostrom goes, I was giddy over him last year because they needed some speed and skill down on the bottom two lines. But right now hes got to show a lot more if he wants to make this team. I think there could be a spot for him, but its got to be on the 4th line right now. I think hed be capable of that with either a Voros or Orr on his opposite wing.

As much as i like him, Korpo, Fritsche and Callahan are all above him on the depth chart right now, the thing that might save his ass though is his experience on the 4th line. the Rangers most likely wont have Korpo on the fourth, but then again I could be very wrong with all of this.

Whats hilarious is Rissmiller, where the **** he fits in i have NO IDEA.
I don't think Rissmiller makes the team. Just doesn't provide enough. I think he was an insurance policy.

Korpikoski on the 4th line would definitely be mishandling him. But would another season in Hartford really be necessary for him?

This stuff make MY head hurt. I wonder how Renney feels.

The issues are the guys who SHOULD make the team and probably won't because of guys who are not as good.

Prucha and Kopikoski should be on this team. Or at least one of them, then which one? Korpikoski might provide more. If it is at the expense of Sjostrom, so be it.

And if Prucha doesn't make the team, he has to be traded. What do you go for in return? Package him for more value? Or just send him off for what ever? I think that would be a waste.

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09-22-2008, 04:55 PM
  #32
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Regarding Korps...

it's really tough to tell. I posted elsewhere that you're not necessarily wasting talent by having a kid play on the fourth line - depending on the construction of that fourth line. As it relates to Korps specifically, it seems as though his offensive skills have not fully developed and he could use time in HFD to play more on a top line, play more PP time and be a leader on that team, which should give him confidence in the NHL. Of course I also thought that Dubi would've been better served last season honing his offensive talents, and I'm not sure if I would've been correct (his offense didn't show up for a month or so, so it's really tough to say what playing in HFD and then coming up would've done for him). It's tricky because you can make an argument that he will get better in the NHL while playing against better talent than in the AHL.

My guess is that he starts in the AHL though - since it's an option and there are other guys fighting for positions who likely are just as good today. If there's an injury, he likely would be the first callup.

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09-22-2008, 05:04 PM
  #33
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Naslund - Gomez - Zherdev (i honestly think theyre trying to fit square pegs in round holes here)
Dawes - Drury - Prucha
Callahan - Dubinsky - Fritsche
Voros - Betts - Orr

Just is not deep enough, IMO. That 4th line is as close to useless as possible in most regular situations. And you are really forcing the issue with the 2nd and 3rd lines. And the first line will not work. By all accounts so far they have been less then impressive. You can't just take your top forwards and throw them together and expect it to work. You need chemistry.

I really wish that Anisimov makes this team.

Dawes - Gomez - Drury
Naslund - Dubinsky - Zherdev
Prucha - Anisimov - Fritsche
Callahan - Betts - Voros

Just more well balanced and deeper.

I'd like Korpikoski, Prucha, and Anisimov on the team if at all possible.


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09-22-2008, 05:16 PM
  #34
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Monkey...

I can't make any sense of your lines when you have the team's best playmaker not playing with at least one of the team's two best scorers. I think you stretched a bit in an attempt to get Dubi some decent stats this season. I don't profess to have the optimal line since I'm stubborn and have been keeping Drury at center (for many reasons), but I think any talk about lines needs to start with Gomez centering one of Zherdev or Naslund, at least to start things off. I think Naslund is the better complement of the two, if I had to choose one. And if Drury is moved to wing, I think, unfortunately, that the left wing makes the most sense to take advantage of a nice shot he has and I've seen from the off wing, and this team is long on guys who are better on the left side than right side.

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09-22-2008, 05:17 PM
  #35
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I somehow doubt all these things about Fristche are true. I mean c'mon is CLB just a stupid franchise to give us this guy as a throw in with that trade? I'm not saying he a garbage, most likely a nice player who can throw some hits and maybe PK a little. Sounds like a borderline NHL player to me to be honest. Korp sounds like a way more complete player yet he is more than likely going to be in Hardford this year again.

For me I'm just hoping he comes in and replaces the physicality that Hollweg brought just with a lot more smarts doing it on the 4th line. That is a role we need to be filled on this club. Again, where do all these players fit? There are too many players and not enough spots.

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09-22-2008, 05:24 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Naslund - Gomez - Zherdev (i honestly think theyre trying to fit square pegs in round holes here)
Dawes - Drury - Prucha
Callahan - Dubinsky - Fritsche
Voros - Betts - Orr

Just is not deep enough, IMO. That 4th line is as close to useless as possible in most regular situations. And you are really forcing the issue with the 2nd and 3rd lines. And the first line will not work. By all accounts so far they have been less then impressive. You can't just take your top forwards and throw them together and expect it to work. You need chemistry.

I really wish that Anisimov makes this team.

Dawes - Gomez - Drury
Naslund - Dubinsky - Zherdev
Prucha - Anisimov - Fritsche
Callahan - Betts - Voros

Just more well balanced and deeper.

I'd like Korpikoski, Prucha, and Anisimov on the team if at all possible.
What about Nigel Dawes game makes ANYONE here think he can be a first line player? C'mon people. The guy was 0 0 0 yesterday with a -2 and we are putting him on the first line. Nice! This guy needs to be way more consistant and not disapear for his long stretches.

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09-22-2008, 05:24 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
I somehow doubt all these things about Fristche are true. I mean c'mon is CLB just a stupid franchise to give us this guy as a throw in with that trade? I'm not saying he a garbage, most likely a nice player who can throw some hits and maybe PK a little. Sounds like a borderline NHL player to me to be honest. Korp sounds like a way more complete player yet he is more than likely going to be in Hardford this year again.

For me I'm just hoping he comes in and replaces the physicality that Hollweg brought just with a lot more smarts doing it on the 4th line. That is a role we need to be filled on this club. Again, where do all these players fit? There are too many players and not enough spots.
He's hit double-digits in goals in each of the last two seasons while playing less than a 70 games in each. He's more of NHL player than Ryan Callahan at this point.

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09-22-2008, 05:27 PM
  #38
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I can't make any sense of your lines when you have the team's best playmaker not playing with at least one of the team's two best scorers. I think you stretched a bit in an attempt to get Dubi some decent stats this season. I don't profess to have the optimal line since I'm stubborn and have been keeping Drury at center (for many reasons), but I think any talk about lines needs to start with Gomez centering one of Zherdev or Naslund, at least to start things off. I think Naslund is the better complement of the two, if I had to choose one. And if Drury is moved to wing, I think, unfortunately, that the left wing makes the most sense to take advantage of a nice shot he has and I've seen from the off wing, and this team is long on guys who are better on the left side than right side.
I'm calling it now. Zherdev will not form on ice chemistry with Gomez.

Gomez needs a guy to follow him up the ice and shoot off the rush.

Zherdev is the guy who likes to rush the puck as well. Having two of them together seems redundant. Spread it out.

And the reason i put Drury on the RW (although i always advocate scorers being on their off wing) is because of the fact that you yourself mentioned. The team is weaker on the right side. And other guys like Prucha would really be less effective on the right side. And you know Zherdev is a right shot and plays on the right wing. Sometimes guys feel more comfortable that way.

Perhaps Dawes could play on the RW? It has to be seen. He is another one that feels more comfortable as a left shot on the left wing.

Dawes and Gomez are fantastic passers, and they showed great chemistry last year. I'd like to see that again.

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09-22-2008, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I'm calling it now. Zherdev will not form on ice chemistry with Gomez.

Gomez needs a guy to follow him up the ice and shoot off the rush.

Zherdev is the guy who likes to rush the puck as well. Having two of them together seems redundant. Spread it out.

And the reason i put Drury on the RW (although i always advocate scorers being on their off wing) is because of the fact that you yourself mentioned. The team is weaker on the right side. And other guys like Prucha would really be less effective on the right side. And you know Zherdev is a right shot and plays on the right wing. Sometimes guys feel more comfortable that way.

Perhaps Dawes could play on the RW? It has to be seen. He is another one that feels more comfortable as a left shot on the left wing.

Dawes and Gomez are fantastic passers, and they showed great chemistry last year. I'd like to see that again.
I believe that Zherdev ends up on Dubi's wing...Dubi's played with a player whose style is similar to Zherdev in Jagr...he seemed to handle that okay. Zherdev was centered by Peca for a lot of last year. Keep Gomez and Naslund together, and Dawes and Drury seem to be developing chemistry.

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09-22-2008, 05:38 PM
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I somehow doubt all these things about Fristche are true. I mean c'mon is CLB just a stupid franchise to give us this guy as a throw in with that trade? I'm not saying he a garbage, most likely a nice player who can throw some hits and maybe PK a little. Sounds like a borderline NHL player to me to be honest. Korp sounds like a way more complete player yet he is more than likely going to be in Hardford this year again.

For me I'm just hoping he comes in and replaces the physicality that Hollweg brought just with a lot more smarts doing it on the 4th line. That is a role we need to be filled on this club. Again, where do all these players fit? There are too many players and not enough spots.
He scored more goals then Callahan, on a crap team, at the same age.

He is not a bad player. If anything he is better then Callahan. And people LOVE Callahan on the third line here.

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09-22-2008, 05:40 PM
  #41
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Monkey...

it's fine to say that Zherdev and Gomez will not play well together. I think that's very possible. But I think then in that case perhaps it's Naslund who's your guy to play with Gomez, at least to start the season.

You pointing out that Drury's on the right side instead of the left side is one of my main issues with the roster as constructed. It's as if Sather doesn't put together a team thinking where everyone will play and he has no problems playing guys out of position. Hopefully they make sense of these lines; I'm just not a fan of playing guys out of position because there are natural tendencies and habits each player to which each player has become accustomed and normally you like guys to play to their strengths.

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09-22-2008, 05:47 PM
  #42
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He's hit double-digits in goals in each of the last two seasons while playing less than a 70 games in each. He's more of NHL player than Ryan Callahan at this point.
I didn't know a 12 goal and 10 goal seasons makes you an NHL player. Mind you playing on one of the basement teams for the last 3 years. And he sure wasn't brought in for his goal scoring I can tell ya that. He has competition though as Byers and Voros want that 3rd line spot, along with Korpedo who should so be on the team.

I will be honest, I don't like that we have drafted all these guys and hear the kind of things about them that we are hearing about Fristche. Now these players look to be challenging for a spot and there are just no spots. Not only that but now Shanny is coming back even less spots. I haven't disliked a player like this since Hartman was still playing. He sounds like a whole lot of nothing just done well. To me this is the guy who took Korps spot on this team. And now Shanny may be taking his spot. God damn Rangers, came so close to getting it right!

Korp>Fristche

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09-22-2008, 05:51 PM
  #43
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as a 23 year with two consecutive seasons of double-digit goal scoring, I think he can be considered an NHLer. Not sure what being on a basement-dwelling team has anything to do with it. Given his ice time at even strength, I'd say that the amount of goals he's scored is quite impressive. And since he's on a basement-dwelling team, and the team that ranked #29 in scoring, I'd guess that there wasn't much forward depth so he wasn't playing with players that would've made him any better and that the goals he scored were with little help from his linemates.

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09-22-2008, 05:57 PM
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as a 23 year with two consecutive seasons of double-digit goal scoring, I think he can be considered an NHLer. Not sure what being on a basement-dwelling team has anything to do with it. Given his ice time at even strength, I'd say that the amount of goals he's scored is quite impressive. And since he's on a basement-dwelling team, and the team that ranked #29 in scoring, I'd guess that there wasn't much forward depth so he wasn't playing with players that would've made him any better and that the goals he scored were with little help from his linemates.
Ahhhh damn! Voros is only 3 goals shy if being a quality NHL player since 10 is the marker. He is nothing we didn't already have in the system.

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09-22-2008, 06:53 PM
  #45
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it's fine to say that Zherdev and Gomez will not play well together. I think that's very possible. But I think then in that case perhaps it's Naslund who's your guy to play with Gomez, at least to start the season.

You pointing out that Drury's on the right side instead of the left side is one of my main issues with the roster as constructed. It's as if Sather doesn't put together a team thinking where everyone will play and he has no problems playing guys out of position. Hopefully they make sense of these lines; I'm just not a fan of playing guys out of position because there are natural tendencies and habits each player to which each player has become accustomed and normally you like guys to play to their strengths.
Know what, they look damn good together tonight.

I hope i was wrong.

Hopefully they do mesh well. Because if they look like this all season we may have one of the best lines in the league.

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09-22-2008, 07:16 PM
  #46
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Know what, they look damn good together tonight.

I hope i was wrong.

Hopefully they do mesh well. Because if they look like this all season we may have one of the best lines in the league.
Did I miss a goal?

One of the best lines in the league and they didn't score a goal. It won't be a line long either if Niko keeps up those give aways.
The Neved line with Voros has been our best line tonight. Paranteau on the wing looks okay.

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09-22-2008, 07:30 PM
  #47
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I somehow doubt all these things about Fristche are true. I mean c'mon is CLB just a stupid franchise to give us this guy as a throw in with that trade? I'm not saying he a garbage, most likely a nice player who can throw some hits and maybe PK a little. Sounds like a borderline NHL player to me to be honest. Korp sounds like a way more complete player yet he is more than likely going to be in Hardford this year again.
You couldn't be more wrong. The reason Fritsche was available in trade was simple. Columbus had a half dozen 3rd liners and no place to put them. Danny was an RFA and the rest were under contract.

In a lot of ways though you guys got the one with the biggest heart and most passion, and a guy who has an uncanny ability to make big plays at the right time. 2 years ago when the Sabres were riding high they loaded up their bandwagon and invaded Nationwide Arena with several thousand fans expecting an easy win. It was Fritsche's 2 goals that gave them a long ride home. This season he scored with 0.4 seconds on the clock to send a game to overtime. He didn't score a lot of goals, but I do remember a high percentage of his goals were game winners.

Danny is a guy you're all gonna love.

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09-22-2008, 07:41 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
You couldn't be more wrong. The reason Fritsche was available in trade was simple. Columbus had a half dozen 3rd liners and no place to put them. Danny was an RFA and the rest were under contract.

In a lot of ways though you guys got the one with the biggest heart and most passion, and a guy who has an uncanny ability to make big plays at the right time. 2 years ago when the Sabres were riding high they loaded up their bandwagon and invaded Nationwide Arena with several thousand fans expecting an easy win. It was Fritsche's 2 goals that gave them a long ride home. This season he scored with 0.4 seconds on the clock to send a game to overtime. He didn't score a lot of goals, but I do remember a high percentage of his goals were game winners.

Danny is a guy you're all gonna love.
Well so far tonight I love Korpedo a hell of a lot more. And the reason you say he was traded is the same reason I say he isn't needed on this team. Our camp and preseason is starting to show that. I like what I seen from Voros more too.

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09-22-2008, 08:32 PM
  #49
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Did I miss a goal?

One of the best lines in the league and they didn't score a goal. It won't be a line long either if Niko keeps up those give aways.
The Neved line with Voros has been our best line tonight. Paranteau on the wing looks okay.
And?

It's preseason.

They played well and read each other well. That's what you want to see in preseason.

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09-22-2008, 08:37 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
And?

It's preseason.

They played well and read each other well. That's what you want to see in preseason.
Thats fine, but I don't see how you got best line in the league. I don't think Zherdev will wind up on the top line though.

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