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** Pre-season G4 - 09/24/08 | 7:00 PM | MSG - NY Rangers @ NJ Devils **

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Old
09-25-2008, 03:09 AM
  #251
bcrt2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fataldogg View Post
Am I the only one who thinks Nedved should be a shoe in for this team now? A person would have to be completely bias to not accept him being one of the better players in each of the games he has played in. He has earned a spot. Showed he still has it.

Do you realize Nedved has produced more than Gomez, Zheredev, Naslund, and Drury? Just food for thought. He was first star in the first game and led to BOTH goals tonight. That supersedes his turn over and more than makes up for it. If Renney doesn't choose him than he isn't objective and hasn't been watching what I've been watching.
If all things were fair, Jagr would still be in town because he was the best offensive player in the playoffs:



3 of the top 30 offensive producers in the playoffs were given the boot out of the door in favour of a risky signing with Naslund (as the scouting report on him out of Vancouver is that he wasn't very good without the Sedins-- to be fair Canucks went ultra defensive since Burkie left though), an even bigger risk with a long term contract to Redden, and trading a solid defenceman in Tyutin for a guy who either will be a bust or ask for the moon in terms of salary if he does perform at the end of the year in Zherdev.

I know we have to look towards the future sometimes but what we did in the offseason really was overkill-- we already have such a deep system, there was no need to get rid of some of the veterans for slightly younger veterans.

Bringing the conversation back to Nedved, with the current philosophy of Renney and Slats it seems as though the future is not now, so they want to give more time to young players even though we would still probably be one of the younger teams even with Nedved in the lineup (currently NHL Numbers puts us as the 2nd youngest team in the league). Nedved doesn't just have to be better than anyone else vying for a spot on the roster, but he has to be 200% better than anyone else vying for a spot to be given serious consideration. Seriously, if Jags played the way he played and wasn't given a serious offer by the Rangers, its going to be real tough for Nedved to get a spot.

(I really wonder how this off-season would've went if Maloney were still here.)


Last edited by bcrt2000: 09-25-2008 at 03:15 AM.
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Old
09-25-2008, 07:57 AM
  #252
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To comment on some of the unknowns. Fahey had a good game--skates and moves the puck well. I think he got a little lucky with the goal though. Denisov is the more stay at home phsycial guy. His skating seems okay. Dave Maloney compared him to Kaspar as far as skills and style. A little bigger version of Kaspar then. Of Weise, Moore and Dupont I thought Weise stood out the most. He seemed the most involved anyway. Dupont looked big and seemed to skate pretty well for his size. Antoine Lafleur played well. He should not have juggled the puck that Parise batted in for the gamewinner but other than that he seemed to be composed in the net--not scrambling around. For someone playing his first NHL game--albeit an exhibition he did very well.

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Old
09-25-2008, 08:14 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
I'm all for letting guys earn spots with their preseason play and I'm not easily swayed by age. But is it just me or does Nedved look awkward and weak as a skater? Once he gets going he's got good top end stride and speed but getting there makes me cringe.

Am I the only one who is afraid Nedved doesn't look like an NHL'er, no matter how many goals he's potted so far?
I think Nedved has always looked weak on his skates. He's pretty skinny for his size

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Old
09-25-2008, 09:05 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by DarrenTurcotte8 View Post
Yet another team playing the rangers in the preseason using 70-80 percent of their NHL regulars and acting like it's game 7 of the finals against pretty much an an AHL team. It's official. I hate Parise as much as Crosby. The Rangers are clearly deeper and will have a better year than Ottawa, TB and the Debbies so i am not worried about the preseason losses.
You might not be worried, which is fine. But it apparently bothered you enough to warp your opinion on the game, hence spouting out your first statement.

The below bolded players are those with little (less than 30 NHL games) to none NHL experience

Devils lineup

Parise - Zajac - Langenbrunner
Fedorov - Vrana - Bergfors
Pandolfo - Madden - Clarkson
Leblond - Pelley - DiSalvatore

Salvador - Martin
Salmela - Greene
Spiller - Leach

Brodeur
Clemmensen

8 players for all intents and purposes do not have full NHL experience (30 or more games). I could even throw Clemmensen in there, cause hes only played 28 games. But I'll leave him out, because most would argue him as a fringe NHL backup.

Rangers Lineup

Dawes - Drury - Prucha
Voros - Dubinsky - Callahan
Rissmiller - Nedved - Fritsche
Dupont - Moore - Weise

Staal - Rozsival
Denisov - Mara
Fahey - Pock

Lundqvist
Lafleur

6 players without full NHL experience.

The Devils iced a less experienced team last night. The Devils iced 60% NHL caliber players.... the Rangers iced 70% NHL caliber players.

I'm not sayin', just sayin'.


Last edited by Mr Bojanglez: 09-25-2008 at 09:21 AM.
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Old
09-25-2008, 09:40 AM
  #255
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Just one major thing I want to say about the game last night and that is the ineffectiveness of the 2nd line of Dawes-Druty-Prucha. This line is not going to work when you have 3 small forwards and no one is a real puck carrier.

Drury- He was trying to carry the puck up through the neutral zone and that is just not his game. He needs to not be the setup man but the person taking the shots or near the net for rebounds.

Dawes- Out of the 3 of them was probably the best player last night which is not saying much at all. He threw a couple of hits but otherwise was not noticed at all.

Prucha- He gets pushed around so much its not even funny. He did nothing offensively and was just invisible through the whole game. He is not a 2nd line player and in my opinion should be traded because I do not think he has a spot on this team.


Last edited by dfings: 09-25-2008 at 11:39 AM.
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Old
09-25-2008, 11:02 AM
  #256
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I wonder, with the thus far failure of the Dawes-Drury-Prucha line, if Renney might try bumping up Dubinsky to try either a Dawes-Dubinsky-Prucha line or something like Dawes-Dubinsky-Drury. Sure Drury isn't meant to be a 3rd liner, but he'll definitely be getting a lot of PK and PP time, not to mention he'll be probably be more of the go-to when the team is down 1 goal late in the 3rd, so I doubt he'll get too little ice time. In fact, it might avoid playing him often like in the early part of last season.

Anyway, surprised no one's done a GDT for tonight's game.

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Old
09-25-2008, 11:26 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by billyH2O View Post
*BULL **** ANALYSIS*


Seriously dude its preseason go troll somewhere else.

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Old
09-25-2008, 11:40 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by segmentation fault View Post


Seriously dude its preseason go troll somewhere else.
analysis? I was proving DarrenTurcotte8's original statement to be incorrect.

Just cause I'm a Devil fan, and I point out a flaw in a Ranger fans' post... I'm automatically a troll.

No, but seriously good constructive post.

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Old
09-25-2008, 11:45 AM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Unk View Post
I wonder, with the thus far failure of the Dawes-Drury-Prucha line, if Renney might try bumping up Dubinsky to try either a Dawes-Dubinsky-Prucha line or something like Dawes-Dubinsky-Drury. Sure Drury isn't meant to be a 3rd liner, but he'll definitely be getting a lot of PK and PP time, not to mention he'll be probably be more of the go-to when the team is down 1 goal late in the 3rd, so I doubt he'll get too little ice time. In fact, it might avoid playing him often like in the early part of last season.

Anyway, surprised no one's done a GDT for tonight's game.
Dawes-Dubinsky-Drury makes a lot of sense. Prucha doesn't really have a spot on the team if it isn't there and it isn't working unfortunately. Dubinsky would provide some much needed size on that line. If we do that, though, we need to figure out who plays third line center, I'm hoping it would be Korpikoski

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Old
09-25-2008, 12:28 PM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyH2O View Post
You might not be worried, which is fine. But it apparently bothered you enough to warp your opinion on the game, hence spouting out your first statement.

The below bolded players are those with little (less than 30 NHL games) to none NHL experience

Devils lineup

Parise - Zajac - Langenbrunner
Fedorov - Vrana - Bergfors
Pandolfo - Madden - Clarkson
Leblond - Pelley - DiSalvatore

Salvador - Martin
Salmela - Greene
Spiller - Leach

Brodeur
Clemmensen

8 players for all intents and purposes do not have full NHL experience (30 or more games). I could even throw Clemmensen in there, cause hes only played 28 games. But I'll leave him out, because most would argue him as a fringe NHL backup.

Rangers Lineup

Dawes - Drury - Prucha
Voros - Dubinsky - Callahan
Rissmiller - Nedved - Fritsche
Dupont - Moore - Weise

Staal - Rozsival
Denisov - Mara
Fahey - Pock

Lundqvist
Lafleur

6 players without full NHL experience.

The Devils iced a less experienced team last night. The Devils iced 60% NHL caliber players.... the Rangers iced 70% NHL caliber players.

I'm not sayin', just sayin'.
but considering pock, rissmiller, fritsche and nedved arent holding down a solid spot in the lineup i wouldnt count them either so i would say the rangers have the slight edge

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Old
09-25-2008, 12:53 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
but considering pock, rissmiller, fritsche and nedved arent holding down a solid spot in the lineup i wouldnt count them either so i would say the rangers have the slight edge
Neither is Pelley, Greene and Clemmenson (Weekes is the backup)

My point is this... both teams were on the same level. To say that the Devils iced 70-80% of their starting lineup against a Rangers AHL team is a poor statement

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Old
09-25-2008, 03:56 PM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyH2O View Post
You might not be worried, which is fine. But it apparently bothered you enough to warp your opinion on the game, hence spouting out your first statement.

The below bolded players are those with little (less than 30 NHL games) to none NHL experience

Devils lineup

Parise - Zajac - Langenbrunner
Fedorov - Vrana - Bergfors
Pandolfo - Madden - Clarkson
Leblond - Pelley - DiSalvatore

Salvador - Martin
Salmela - Greene
Spiller - Leach

Brodeur
Clemmensen

8 players for all intents and purposes do not have full NHL experience (30 or more games). I could even throw Clemmensen in there, cause hes only played 28 games. But I'll leave him out, because most would argue him as a fringe NHL backup.

Rangers Lineup

Dawes - Drury - Prucha
Voros - Dubinsky - Callahan
Rissmiller - Nedved - Fritsche
Dupont - Moore - Weise

Staal - Rozsival
Denisov - Mara
Fahey - Pock

Lundqvist
Lafleur

6 players without full NHL experience.

The Devils iced a less experienced team last night. The Devils iced 60% NHL caliber players.... the Rangers iced 70% NHL caliber players.

I'm not sayin', just sayin'.
Fixed for ya. Nedved, Pissmiller, and Fritsche arent Guaranteed spots at all. Considering Zherdev, Orr, Betts, Gomez, Naslund, Kalinin, Redden, Girardi, and Korpedo didnt play. You guys did indeed have your top player, whom scored 2 points. while we were missing our top player in Gomez.

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Old
09-25-2008, 09:23 PM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyH2O View Post
You might not be worried, which is fine. But it apparently bothered you enough to warp your opinion on the game, hence spouting out your first statement.

The below bolded players are those with little (less than 30 NHL games) to none NHL experience

Devils lineup

Parise - Zajac - Langenbrunner
Fedorov - Vrana - Bergfors
Pandolfo - Madden - Clarkson
Leblond - Pelley - DiSalvatore

Salvador - Martin
Salmela - Greene
Spiller - Leach

Brodeur
Clemmensen

8 players for all intents and purposes do not have full NHL experience (30 or more games). I could even throw Clemmensen in there, cause hes only played 28 games. But I'll leave him out, because most would argue him as a fringe NHL backup.

Rangers Lineup

Dawes - Drury - Prucha
Voros - Dubinsky - Callahan
Rissmiller - Nedved - Fritsche
Dupont - Moore - Weise

Staal - Rozsival
Denisov - Mara
Fahey - Pock

Lundqvist
Lafleur

6 players without full NHL experience.

The Devils iced a less experienced team last night. The Devils iced 60% NHL caliber players.... the Rangers iced 70% NHL caliber players.

I'm not sayin', just sayin'.




Haha this is funny. Devils fans all offseason boasted about how Vrana, Bergfors and Salmela are just as good as any NYR prospects and will make the team in 2009. But to support his argument, they are all of a sudden benchplayers.

Listen, stay off the board. The Devils were minus only three of their top 12 forwards. Sutter was playing the game like it would be sending a message after last year's debacle in the 1st round. All Sutter's coach this way.

Congrats on your win, really. Hope this brings the Devils back to their winning tradition.

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Old
09-25-2008, 10:06 PM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyH2O View Post
Neither is Pelley, Greene and Clemmenson (Weekes is the backup)

My point is this... both teams were on the same level. To say that the Devils iced 70-80% of their starting lineup against a Rangers AHL team is a poor statement
Lets put it this way. You guys iced your top line last night. We did not. Plain and simple. Even so, Drury's line got minimal ice time. Parise and crew were out there all night.

Edit: I really cant take preseason seriously. The pace of the game is terrible and we have to watch the Nedveds of the world. When the lights go on in Prague, there will be a completely different feeling.

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Old
09-26-2008, 08:33 AM
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrenTurcotte8 View Post
Haha this is funny. Devils fans all offseason boasted about how Vrana, Bergfors and Salmela are just as good as any NYR prospects and will make the team in 2009. But to support his argument, they are all of a sudden benchplayers.

Listen, stay off the board. The Devils were minus only three of their top 12 forwards. Sutter was playing the game like it would be sending a message after last year's debacle in the 1st round. All Sutter's coach this way.

Congrats on your win, really. Hope this brings the Devils back to their winning tradition.
I'm glad you can put words into my mouth... cause I never called those 3 players "bench players." nor did I ever compare them to Ranger Prospects. But its cool, generalize me with other fans instead of correctly addressing the points I raised.

Minus 3 of their top 12 forwards? We iced 2 legit lines! What are you guys not getting? Zubrus, Elias, Rolston, Gionta, Holik didn't play. You can even put Rupp in there. That would be 6 players.... half the forward starting lineup. We went to school, yes? Hence... 2 full lines missing from our startup.

Stay off the boards? Because you made an immature statement and I told you I disagreed... and backed up my reasoning?

Gomez, Zherdov and Naslund didn't play... well neither did Elias, Rolston, and Gionta

Stay off the board? Why, cause you can't deal with criticism when you're wrong? Some posters are generalizing based on incorrect information. So... in the spirit of the boards and debate, I'll point out when you're wrong.

And Motime42....you really think Parise's line is our top line? You know better then that. But of course, make a statement based on the wrong facts and its ok over here. Did we ice a better team? I'll buy that. But don't act like the Rangers were the "AHL" team when their roster had more experience.

Listen, I don't care win/lose in a preseason. Cause honestly on Saturday the Rangers could ice a better team, and the devils lose. Or they ice a worse team... and the Devils lose. But DarrenTurcotte8 continues to remain delusional. I guess thats what he wants, me to leave so he continue being ignorant.

"stay off the boards" is a lot easier to say then "you're right, the Devils did not start as much as their regular roster as I first assumed"

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Old
09-26-2008, 08:34 AM
  #266
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How has Jämtin looked by the way? He has only played in one game, right? So I guess his chances to make the team are very slim.

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Old
09-26-2008, 11:58 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by billyH2O View Post
I'm glad you can put words into my mouth... cause I never called those 3 players "bench players." nor did I ever compare them to Ranger Prospects. But its cool, generalize me with other fans instead of correctly addressing the points I raised.
Minus 3 of their top 12 forwards? We iced 2 legit lines! What are you guys not getting? Zubrus, Elias, Rolston, Gionta, Holik didn't play. You can even put Rupp in there. That would be 6 players.... half the forward starting lineup. We went to school, yes? Hence... 2 full lines missing from our startup.

Stay off the boards? Because you made an immature statement and I told you I disagreed... and backed up my reasoning?

Gomez, Zherdov and Naslund didn't play... well neither did Elias, Rolston, and Gionta

Stay off the board? Why, cause you can't deal with criticism when you're wrong? Some posters are generalizing based on incorrect information. So... in the spirit of the boards and debate, I'll point out when you're wrong.

And Motime42....you really think Parise's line is our top line? You know better then that. But of course, make a statement based on the wrong facts and its ok over here. Did we ice a better team? I'll buy that. But don't act like the Rangers were the "AHL" team when their roster had more experience.

Listen, I don't care win/lose in a preseason. Cause honestly on Saturday the Rangers could ice a better team, and the devils lose. Or they ice a worse team... and the Devils lose. But DarrenTurcotte8 continues to remain delusional. I guess thats what he wants, me to leave so he continue being ignorant.

"stay off the boards" is a lot easier to say then "you're right, the Devils did not start as much as their regular roster as I first assumed"



I meant to say six of the top nine. Oh well, sue me. And what's with the "NHL 30-game experience" stuff? I said the Devils used 70-80 percent of THEIR NHL regulars who Devils fans like yourself have said to be on the opening night roster, and with 12 of 19 from the other night, that makes 63 percent....OH MY god i was off by 7 percent.

I was using predictions like your own (see link below) to reveal that the Devils played more guys who will be on their opening night roster than the Rangers. The Devils didn't play ANYBODY from their 4th line, the Rangers didn't play ANYBODY from their 1st line. Sorry junior, there's a difference.

Read your own post. You thought on July 13th that Bergfors was a 1st-line winger and that Salmela and Greene were going to crack the top-8. The Rangers clearly (because of the 5 games in 6 nights) had a bunch of guys from Hartford.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=533506&page=3

The point is we Rangers fans on these boards (like all hockey fans) like to vent after wins and losses. I personally don't mind if somebody makes a common mistake in syntax or fact (it happens) and I have no problem admitting it if I do it myself.

I would much rather be mistaken than be a hypocrite, which you clearly are. I can deal with fellow Rangers fans being hypocrites on THIS board, but certainly not a Debbies fan. So, stay off the board.

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Old
09-26-2008, 01:47 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by DarrenTurcotte8 View Post
I meant to say six of the top nine. Oh well, sue me. And what's with the "NHL 30-game experience" stuff? I said the Devils used 70-80 percent of THEIR NHL regulars who Devils fans like yourself have said to be on the opening night roster, and with 12 of 19 from the other night, that makes 63 percent....OH MY god i was off by 7 percent.

I was using predictions like your own (see link below) to reveal that the Devils played more guys who will be on their opening night roster than the Rangers. The Devils didn't play ANYBODY from their 4th line, the Rangers didn't play ANYBODY from their 1st line. Sorry junior, there's a difference.

Read your own post. You thought on July 13th that Bergfors was a 1st-line winger and that Salmela and Greene were going to crack the top-8. The Rangers clearly (because of the 5 games in 6 nights) had a bunch of guys from Hartford.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=533506&page=3

The point is we Rangers fans on these boards (like all hockey fans) like to vent after wins and losses. I personally don't mind if somebody makes a common mistake in syntax or fact (it happens) and I have no problem admitting it if I do it myself.

I would much rather be mistaken than be a hypocrite, which you clearly are. I can deal with fellow Rangers fans being hypocrites on THIS board, but certainly not a Debbies fan. So, stay off the board.
What you meant and what you wrote are two different things... I don't know what you meant... only what you wrote.

This has gone way beyond making a comment about the game... and now I'm just trying to prove a point.

Pelley is a 4th line player (so you're wrong, we did ice a 4th liner)... and 5 of the other forwards aren't even 4th line players, seeing how they haven't even made the team yet!. Again, you're wrong

So you were off by 7% like you said... but its not just 7%. You failed to mention that your post made it seem like the devils iced more of their full-roster... saying "70-80%". And even still... you say "full-roster" as a way to describe the players... but I use NHL experience as a measuring stick. Apples to oranges I guess... I was just trying to show you that both teams had just as many inexperienced, or "AHL" level players.

The devils played 9 guys that could very well not be on their opening night roster. I'll say 8, actually, because one of the players needs to make it.... just don't know who

And the Rangers didn't play anybody from their first line? Neither did the Devils?! So whats the point? Oh, that's right. They iced similar teams. And the Devils did not ice a vastly NHL-proven team compared to the Rangers, like you alluded to.

And just cause I penciled in Bergfors as a potential starter, and Salmala... doesn't mean ****. I'm not sure why you went through all the trouble to look that up (my posts). I never called them benchplayers, and I never compared them to Ranger prospects. If they make the lineup, I'd potentially put them in those positions. What I think and what is actually going to happen is irrelevant. Really, though, not one of them have real NHL experience, and not one of them is a guarantee to play. So what's your point?

The Rangers had 6 guys from Hartford. The Devils had 6 guys from Lowell (if you don't count Federov and Salmela who have almost zero NHL experience).

The point is this. You made a statement that alluded to the Devils icing a team with that much more experience. But, you were wrong.

The fact is the Devils iced the same amount of AHL players as the Rangers... with 2 other players that could essentially qualify as NHL rookies if it wasn't for Fed's age.

Both the Rangers and the Devils did not ice their first lines.

And its a shame that I had to go this far just to make a point. But everyone blasted me on here when the facts are right in front of you. This is stupid, and I don't even know why I bothered. I guess my internet pride

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09-26-2008, 05:58 PM
  #269
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Meh, the debbies don't scare me too much as a team.

Brodeur clearly can't handle the workload they have been handing him in recent years and be successful in the playoffs. They need to rely on at least 10-12 games from their backup, which is not good because the duo of Weekes/Clemmensen has averaged around a 3.00 GAA and an .890 SV % backing up Brodeur over the last several years.

Their forward corps is good and quite deep. The good thing is either Elias or Parise will likely have Zajac as their center. And if they try to roll the dice and play a first line of Elias - Rolston - Parise, that makes them essentially a one-line offensive threat. There is much talk in Devils land how a huge fourth line of Rupp-Holik-Zubrus will be one of the best fourth lines in the league. LOL. Talk about SLOOOOW. Any line with any semblance of speed skates circles around that line.

The most comforting part about the upcoming debbies season is their d-corps. Martin and Salvador are both solid, although Salvador has basically no offensive game. Word on the beat is that Mike Mottau will be paired on the 2nd defensive pairing with Colin White. Mike Mottau?!? LOL!!! Granted White is a serviceable defenseman, but is a different player since his unfortunate eye injury. And then you have Oduya and a fringe NHL'er like Andy Greene rounding up your top 6. Wow, that's rough.

Either way, the Devils with their depth at forward and brodeur will continue to be competitive. Barring injuries they will probably make the playoffs. However they will most likely crash out of the playoffs in the first round again. If the Rangers cannot find early season chemistry they will also probably finish ahead of the Rangers again. I just hope that early season chemistry problems don't cause the Rangers to miss the playoffs.

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