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O'Sullivan SIGNED! - 3 Years / $2.925MM per year

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Old
09-25-2008, 12:47 AM
  #101
Reaper45
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Can't say that I follow you on that one. You said that the Thrashers are paying Enstrom for his potential. I asked what other young players would be due big paydays. Because imo they don't have anyone else to pay like the Kings due (Kopitar and company), hence the reason why the Kings are taking so long and not overpaying for O'Sullivan's potential, because they need to worry about other contracts fitting in and the Thrashers due not.

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09-25-2008, 01:00 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan67 View Post
hey all....long time reader,

I have been told by reliable sources that the two deal from the kings have been as follows

2 years @ $1.8/yr

3 years @ $2.1/yr

The kings play in Denver tonight I believe and O'Sullivan is staying there for the time being. I would suspect Hextall or Lombardi will be seeking some face to face time.
and that would definitely support the numbers in the range of the Backes contract and as i said before Lombardi specifically pointed out how important the Backes offer sheet was when he was talking about the numbers they had in mind for O'Sullivan. This definitely is too low imo, but what is more significant is Lombardi has even discussed how it is important that they get this one right. It definitely has an impact on where negotiations will start with Kopitar and Johnson. I think Morris (??)is also representing Kopitar, and so Morris is also negotiating O'Sullivan with his next contract in mind. So i have been wondering if this is bigger than O'Sullivan right now. Is he stuck in the middle of this? I wonder what pressure he might be feeling. Does he cave and then feel like he has screwed over his team mate and more so one of his best friends in respect to bargaining position.

The other thing is the decision to hold him out of camp. I have supported this decision that Dean has made to now, and certainly it is one way to go. On the flip side though we know this kid had every intention to show up at camp. A week prior to camp POS is talking to one of our posters, discussing how it is time they step up, support the rookies, etc, total intention on being on the ice and being a King. Dean says usually when they are this far apart they aren't talking, but they are so this is a good thing.

So....Dean takes him off roster, off camp roster, tells him he is not on the "ship", and makes a statement in the media how others can be inspired to fill his spot. At the same time he says I got to meet with the player to tell him its nothing personal! Actions are much bigger than words, and i just wonder if what he thought might happen back fired and he has now backed the kid into a corner. Had he had him in camp, on the ice, within his influence, and talking, perhaps this would have had a more positive result. Again complete speculation on my part, just offering a different perspective. I am tired of thinking about it lol! It is maybe too late anyway.


Last edited by sueroe: 09-25-2008 at 07:00 PM.
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09-25-2008, 01:22 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Can't say that I follow you on that one. You said that the Thrashers are paying Enstrom for his potential. I asked what other young players would be due big paydays. Because imo they don't have anyone else to pay like the Kings due (Kopitar and company), hence the reason why the Kings are taking so long and not overpaying for O'Sullivan's potential, because they need to worry about other contracts fitting in and the Thrashers due not.
It's not out of this world to compare Jeff Carter to O'Sullivan and look at the payday Carter got.

Jeff Carter (23 years old, C/W)
2007-08 82 29-24-53 +6
New contract? $15,000,000 for 3 seasons ($5,000,000 per).

Patrick O'Sullivan (23 years old, W/C)
2007-08 82 22-31-53 -8
Supposed asked starting point? $4,000,000 per.

Yes Carter has 2 more full seasons under his belt, but last year's 53 point season is pretty comparable and I wouldn't be surprised if O'Sullivan's agent has brought up Carter multiple times.

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09-25-2008, 01:34 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Squidward View Post
Tobias Enstrom just signed a 4 year extension at a reported $3.75 million/year. I believe he is very comparable to O'Sullivan (age, NHL experience, 1 good season) and yes I know Enstrom is a defenseman but their careers seem very similar right now. Does this help or hurt Patrick's position?
I don't see how this will help because I do not see DL wanting to pay
POS that much money and I do not see POS signing on for more than 2
years now if he signs at all. At some point real soon this is going to
get ugly if it has not already. There has really been no news out of
POS camp at all.

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09-25-2008, 01:36 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braindeadalive View Post
It's not out of this world to compare Jeff Carter to O'Sullivan and look at the payday Carter got.

Jeff Carter (23 years old, C/W)
2007-08 82 29-24-53 +6
New contract? $15,000,000 for 3 seasons ($5,000,000 per).

Patrick O'Sullivan (23 years old, W/C)
2007-08 82 22-31-53 -8
Supposed asked starting point? $4,000,000 per.

Yes Carter has 2 more full seasons under his belt, but last year's 53 point season is pretty comparable and I wouldn't be surprised if O'Sullivan's agent has brought up Carter multiple times.
If O'Sullivan is looking for 5 million dollars because of one good season, then I hope he signs an offer sheet over 5 so we can get the draft picks and walk away. I like Irish but he's not worth that much money.

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09-25-2008, 01:39 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
If O'Sullivan is looking for 5 million dollars because of one good season, then I hope he signs an offer sheet over 5 so we can get the draft picks and walk away. I like Irish but he's not worth that much money.
Oh I have no idea what he's asking for (and if true it started at 4 i'd imagine the actual number is 3 to 3.5), i'm just saying Carter's situation wasn't far off.

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09-25-2008, 01:41 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
If O'Sullivan is looking for 5 million dollars because of one good season, then I hope he signs an offer sheet over 5 so we can get the draft picks and walk away. I like Irish but he's not worth that much money.
The Carter signing was insanity. The Flyers are going to be rotting in cap hell because of this and Briere's outlandish contract.

Considering Pominville just signed a 5 per extension after improving his numbers every year, putting up a PPG season, and showing he can score clutch goals in a serious Cup run, O'Sullivan shouldn't be asking for anything near that range.

I'm sorry, but potential and impressive minor/junior stats don't equate to a big NHL contract. Thy never have and they never will.

But I think it's pretty obvious Sully wasn't exactly right in the head from the get go. He's not running the show here; his agent is. And that sucks for the Kings' entire organization and its fans.

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09-25-2008, 02:46 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braindeadalive View Post
It's not out of this world to compare Jeff Carter to O'Sullivan and look at the payday Carter got.

Jeff Carter (23 years old, C/W)
2007-08 82 29-24-53 +6
New contract? $15,000,000 for 3 seasons ($5,000,000 per).

Patrick O'Sullivan (23 years old, W/C)
2007-08 82 22-31-53 -8
Supposed asked starting point? $4,000,000 per.

Yes Carter has 2 more full seasons under his belt, but last year's 53 point season is pretty comparable and I wouldn't be surprised if O'Sullivan's agent has brought up Carter multiple times.
Philadelphia overpays (like always), so the Kings should too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sueroe View Post
and that would definitely support the numbers in the range of the Backes contract and as i said before Lombardi specifically pointed out how important the Backes offer sheet was when he was talking about the numbers they had in mind for O'Sullivan. This definitely is too low imo, but what is more significant is Lombardi has even discussed how it is important that they get this one right. It definitely has an impact on where negotiations will start with Kopitar and Johnson. I think Morris is also representing Kopitar, and so Morris is also negotiating O'Sullivan with his next contract in mind. So i have been wondering if this is bigger than O'Sullivan right now. Is he stuck in the middle of this? I wonder what pressure he might be feeling. Does he cave and then feel like he has screwed over his team mate and more so one of his best friends in respect to bargaining position.

The other thing is the decision to hold him out of camp. I have supported this decision that Dean has made to now, and certainly it is one way to go. On the flip side though we know this kid had every intention to show up at camp. A week prior to camp POS is talking to one of our posters, discussing how it is time they step up, support the rookies, etc, total intention on being on the ice and being a King. Dean says usually when they are this far apart they aren't talking, but they are so this is a good thing.

So....Dean takes him off roster, off camp roster, tells him he is not on the "ship", and makes a statement in the media how others can be inspired to fill his spot. At the same time he says I got to meet with the player to tell him its nothing personal! Actions are much bigger than words, and i just wonder if what he thought might happen back fired and he has now backed the kid into a corner. Had he had him in camp, on the ice, within his influence, and talking, perhaps this would have had a more positive result. Again complete speculation on my part, just offering a different perspective. I am tired of thinking about it lol! It is maybe too late anyway.
When did Lombardi say this?

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09-25-2008, 03:18 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
When did Lombardi say this?
I was wondering the same. And also, why would Lombardi think that? Backes and O'Sullivan aren't really comparable at all. Obviously the numbers are miles apart, but also Backes played most of 2006-07 too, so he's really got that second year which O'Sullivan doesn't have. If O'Sullivan had a second year in the NHL I bet this would have been resolved earlier, because every year counts as far as Lombardi and contracts go.

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09-25-2008, 03:44 AM
  #110
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If O'Sullivan had a second year in the NHL I bet this would have been resolved earlier, because every year counts as far as Lombardi and contracts go.
This is why overall I feel a little more confident about Kopitar and Johnson's contracts getting done properly. Obviously this bullcrap dragging out will make them a bit more painful, but Kopitar will have had 3 years of being an absolute badass, Johnson one above average year and what looks to be an impressive year, with (crossing my fingers) a huge improvement in points (~40?). We do see a problem with Lombardi ponying up for potential but we also see a large willingness to pay for past performance. I would think that positively Kopitar and a little less so Johnson, will have proven themselves enough. Especially since they haven't had the attitude problems that Lombardi felt it necessary to point out to Hammond.

So since most of us can agree that while we may love Sully, he isn't going to make or break this team in terms of on ice performance. He makes us better. He's good enough to net some nice value in a proper trade.

I still want him signed more than anyone, and all this trade talk agitates the junk out of me, but hopefully because of this key potential/consistent performance issue that seems to be clogging up the gears here, really won't be a big issue when it comes to Kopitar and Johnson.

If this is true, things with Frolov could be looking up as well, barring any persistent injuries that cause him to miss a bunch of games these next two seasons, otherwise we might see something like the Gaborik stalemate. Certainly the way Fro's PPG has improved steadily, by the end of his contract he should be well worth 5-6 million, even in Lombardi's eyes. The evidence is there with Handsuz' and Stoll's contracts. If DL thinks they are worth $3.6-4 while putting up an average of 40-50 points. If Frolov can hit 30 goals once more and atleast close to it the other season, play 70+ games each of those years, I see no reason why Lombardi would have this same problem with O'Sullivan. Crossing my fingers. I'm a big DL supporter, but he does like to throw some curve balls out there.

This all sucks so frigging bad, but hopefully it will only suck for now and not redirect this team, yet again.

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09-25-2008, 04:01 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Philadelphia overpays (like always), so the Kings should too?
No I never said that, was just using Carter as a comparison that O'Sullivan's agent might've used.

IMO O'Sullivan should be signed to something slightly less than what Nathan Horton re-signed for (6 years $24 million).

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09-25-2008, 04:03 AM
  #112
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I am suddenly reminded of

Lil' ghetto boy
Playing in the ghetto streets
What'cha gonna do when you grow up
And have to face responsibility...

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09-25-2008, 04:12 AM
  #113
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Anyone here think that POS is trying to get a short term deal because his good buddy Dustin Brown is telling him not to make the same mistake he did in signing a 6 year contract? It also makes sense that DL is trying to lock-up POS to the same type of deal because Brown's contract is a thing of beauty.

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09-25-2008, 04:41 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by TearsOFaClown View Post
Anyone here think that POS is trying to get a short term deal because his good buddy Dustin Brown is telling him not to make the same mistake he did in signing a 6 year contract?
If he did he wouldn't be considered a candidate for the C or wearing an A in the pre-season.

Quote:
It also makes sense that DL is trying to lock-up POS to the same type of deal because Brown's contract is a thing of beauty.
I was wondering earlier today whether ultimately that truly magnificient contract will end up biting us big time. Screwed over by a bad market... doesn't seem all that uncommon these days.

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09-25-2008, 08:03 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Can't say that I follow you on that one. You said that the Thrashers are paying Enstrom for his potential. I asked what other young players would be due big paydays. Because imo they don't have anyone else to pay like the Kings due (Kopitar and company), hence the reason why the Kings are taking so long and not overpaying for O'Sullivan's potential, because they need to worry about other contracts fitting in and the Thrashers due not.
I am saying that the league looks at comparables when it comes to what a players "market value" is. The league does not care if the team that signs the player has $20 million in cap room or $1 million. The league does not care if the player is the only one that needs to be signed or is one of 10. They care about what the player has accomplished, his relative age and NHL experience. O'Sullivan closely matches Enstrom in those three categories. How many players that a team has to fit into the budget should not be that much of a factor. Especially when you consider many of those players pay days are not for another 3 years down the road.

You guys have to look at this like any other job. If your position pays $50,000/year is it reasonable for your employer to say they are only going to pay you $35,000 because they need to set aside money to give Bob in accounting a raise in 2010?

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09-25-2008, 09:44 AM
  #116
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I am saying that the league looks at comparables when it comes to what a players "market value" is. The league does not care if the team that signs the player has $20 million in cap room or $1 million. The league does not care if the player is the only one that needs to be signed or is one of 10. They care about what the player has accomplished, his relative age and NHL experience. O'Sullivan closely matches Enstrom in those three categories. How many players that a team has to fit into the budget should not be that much of a factor. Especially when you consider many of those players pay days are not for another 3 years down the road.

You guys have to look at this like any other job. If your position pays $50,000/year is it reasonable for your employer to say they are only going to pay you $35,000 because they need to set aside money to give Bob in accounting a raise in 2010?
Yeah, but I heard Bob can collate like no one's business!

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09-25-2008, 01:23 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by braindeadalive View Post
It's not out of this world to compare Jeff Carter to O'Sullivan and look at the payday Carter got.

Jeff Carter (23 years old, C/W)
2007-08 82 29-24-53 +6
New contract? $15,000,000 for 3 seasons ($5,000,000 per).

Patrick O'Sullivan (23 years old, W/C)
2007-08 82 22-31-53 -8
Supposed asked starting point? $4,000,000 per.

Yes Carter has 2 more full seasons under his belt, but last year's 53 point season is pretty comparable and I wouldn't be surprised if O'Sullivan's agent has brought up Carter multiple times.
also I am not positive about this as I don't follow the Flyers on a night to night basis, but I am pretty sure Carter is not as good a defensive player than POS. Not even sure if Carter kills penalties on a regular basis.

I agree with others that it would appear that the Kings are being very frugal with POS because they are keeping in mind other players' contracts that needs to be negotiated in the future.

Honestly, just because Brown signed for a bargain price, it doesn't mean every player that comes after would be willing to take a "hometown" discount. I don't think it is fair to expect that to be the case.

I just hope that Sully doesn't miss any time this year and fail to continue his development because of this. He showed by the end of the last season that he is well on his way to becoming an impact player, I really really hope he is not going getting screwed over in his development because of this.

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09-25-2008, 01:33 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Philadelphia overpays (like always), so the Kings should too?



When did Lombardi say this?
Didn't mean to imply that Lombardi said he was looking at the Backes contract as the number for O'Sullivan, rather that it came up as an important offer sheet when discussing the numbers. That is what i get for posting after and office party!

Quote:
Then I asked about Patrick O'Sullivan, and whether the big money given to young players would have a negative impact on the Kings' ability to sign him...

``No, we had kind of adjusted for that, going in, when we did our projections. I don't think you can kid yourself. The one thing you learn early in your career is, you don't think, `Oh yeah, we can get him for this.' You put in your number, going across three or four years, and you make it realistic. I think the number we have is realistic. I guess the numbers you're talking about for the young players... I don't think a lot changed (for O'Sullivan). If you're talking about the top young guys, Patrick hasn't gone to that level. If you're talking about (Corey) Perry and (Jeff) Carter and those guys. If he takes another step, God bless him, but I don't think it's fair to say he's in that range.

``The one significant one that happened in the market today was probably (David) Backes, with that offer sheet. And part of the number you use, don't forget, depends on the term. We're in good position with him in terms of our rights. Then there's a number you'd lock him in at, but you're keeping an eye on the free-agent line. But I think our number is OK. I don't think anything really changed in the free-agent market that wasn't there. (Ryan) Getzlaf was already there, and some of those guys. The other thing is, a lot of these deals are done before July 1, but some of them aren't signed and announced. So some of them don't come down until today, but we knew what those numbers were, even before the draft.''
This is Lombardi speaking about signing Patrick O'Sullivan on July 1st. They hadn't started negotiations at that point. Now i might be misunderstaning what he is saying and of course it can be interpretted any way you want, but I don't think Backes would be a name that would come up if he didn't think his number is in line with that. or, maybe he thinks Patrick is worth more but speculation is a fun thing! I had heard the Backes thing come up more than once but this is all i can find because i kind of go on memory quite a bit!


Last edited by sueroe: 09-25-2008 at 02:34 PM.
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09-25-2008, 03:46 PM
  #119
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Here are two quotes from our O'Sullivan contact over at LGK.com. He is someone who personally knows O'Sullivan and has been updating everyone over at LGK.com giving his (biased) take on the O'Sullivan situation often shedding light in previous unknown tidbits from Sully's side of things.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mmminc
Take it to the bank... POS new deal will reach the NHL offices by 4:00 Eastern time on the 1st of October and his press conference with the Leafs is scheduled for later that day!! See you all at FF!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmminc
I'm a huge Leaf fan (by birth) and a huge Kings fan (POS)... hopefully Hextall's dinner with POS will get it done or let's hope "Trader Cliff" can make it happen for the Leafs.

p.s. to Carla: DL sent Hextall and Newport supported the meeting so your wish has come true.
I find his first post to be rather facetious because until something is signed... who's to say when any press conference will be held?

Either way, looks like we'll get a resolution soon. And if it's true that the Leafs are going to do it, I'd let Sully go in a heartbeat.

2 lottery tickets > 1

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09-25-2008, 04:42 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by The Natural View Post
Here are two quotes from our O'Sullivan contact over at LGK.com. He is someone who personally knows O'Sullivan and has been updating everyone over at LGK.com giving his (biased) take on the O'Sullivan situation often shedding light in previous unknown tidbits from Sully's side of things.






I find his first post to be rather facetious because until something is signed... who's to say when any press conference will be held?

Either way, looks like we'll get a resolution soon. And if it's true that the Leafs are going to do it, I'd let Sully go in a heartbeat.

2 lottery tickets > 1
So is this a trade?, because if it is an offer sheet, DL could match.
On another note if he gets traded to the Leafs my son will point and laugh at me, and jump up and down several times with excitement. Either way no good for me

Well i guess it would depend on what would come back in return?

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09-25-2008, 04:51 PM
  #121
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If Toronto is dumb enough to trade their first in 09, or sign an offer sheet in which they'd have to give up their first, I will laugh for years. Literally. Years.

If so, good bye, Patty'O. It was nice knowing ya'. But I'll take that top five pick in 2009 any damn day.

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09-25-2008, 04:55 PM
  #122
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If Dean Lombardi were to stiff O'Sullivan and trade him for a top 5 pick in 2009, I would officially become a member of the "Get Dean Lombardi the HeII out of LA" club.

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09-25-2008, 04:58 PM
  #123
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If Dean Lombardi were to stiff O'Sullivan and trade him for a top 5 pick in 2009, I would officially become a member of the "Get Dean Lombardi the HeII out of LA" club.
Yeah...




When's the last time the Kings had 2 picks out of the first 5?

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09-25-2008, 05:02 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by aegwillnotwinthecup View Post
If Toronto is dumb enough to trade their first in 09, or sign an offer sheet in which they'd have to give up their first, I will laugh for years. Literally. Years.

If so, good bye, Patty'O. It was nice knowing ya'. But I'll take that top five pick in 2009 any damn day.
You seem overly bitter towards POS.

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09-25-2008, 05:06 PM
  #125
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When's the last time the Kings had 2 picks out of the first 5?
Who cares? I agree with him to an extent. I am so sick of draft picks. How about a winning team? I know draft picks are worth more than gold around here but maybe a some point this team could move past it's perpetual rebuild. That being said, if there is no resolution and that is the best offer we can get, so be it. And to be honest, I doubt we get the return of a first rounder out of a trade for him if he is unsigned. The only way we get a first rounder is through and offer sheet. That is my opinion at least.

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