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Another shot at Tanguay from the Flames

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Old
09-30-2008, 02:23 PM
  #76
loudi94
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Originally Posted by tfong View Post

EDIT: A side note for you guys. The Habs bashed Ryder pretty hard when he left for Boston. So I don't know what you guys are talking about classless acts. Carbo handled Ryder really poorly imo. Even now, a lot of Montreal fans still bash Ryder on the Canadiens.com forums. So yeah careful who you're saying is classless there eh? Reghre isn't one of them. Check out all the things he does for charity and what he does in Africa
Fans did, but players and management did not.

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09-30-2008, 02:33 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfong View Post

EDIT: A side note for you guys. The Habs bashed Ryder pretty hard when he left for Boston. So I don't know what you guys are talking about classless acts. Carbo handled Ryder really poorly imo. Even now, a lot of Montreal fans still bash Ryder on the Canadiens.com forums. So yeah careful who you're saying is classless there eh? Reghre isn't one of them. Check out all the things he does for charity and what he does in Africa
They said the hab management did not bash Ryder, nor did the Hab players. Only the fans and mostly that we did not believe he was worth the contract he recieved.

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09-30-2008, 02:34 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
Fans did, but players and management did not.
Is that any better/worse though?

My point saying that Reggie is not bashing anyone. Hes giving his own reasoning why players were moved.

Also

http://weei.com/Ryder-Ready-for-Revenge-on-Habs/3040293

Did Carbo never even talk to Ryder once? That would've been pretty bad handling of affairs if you think about it.

Anyways not saying Carbo is classless either, but I'm trying to give a perspective that Reggie isn't the type to go and bash a player and the way that article puts things together is kinda skewed towards giving you guys that impression.

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09-30-2008, 02:58 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
Trying to fit Tanguay into Calgary's system was like trying to place a square peg into a round hole. Lucky for us his style of play should fit ours like a glove, so I'm looking for him to have a big year.

Tanguay was a perfect fit in Calgary when he first went there and was playing under Sutter and Jim Playfair. He put up a lot of points and had some success in Calgary, but as soon as Iron Mike Keenan showed up....Tanguay went downhill and fast. Keenans style just simply didn't suit Tanguays style of play...its as simple as that. That is the only reason Tanguay had a so-so season last year.....it certainly didn't mean he lost his skill, he just couldn't play the way Keenan wanted him to. You can't force guys to play a style they aren't familiar or comfortable with.

Thats ok.....we'll gladly take Tanguay's skill and scoring punch....I don't care if he doesn't go in a corner all season and take a hit.....as long as he fills the net.

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09-30-2008, 03:03 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
Tanguay was a perfect fit in Calgary when he first went there and was playing under Sutter and Jim Playfair. He put up a lot of points and had some success in Calgary, but as soon as Iron Mike Keenan showed up....Tanguay went downhill and fast. Keenans style just simply didn't suit Tanguays style of play...its as simple as that. That is the only reason Tanguay had a so-so season last year.....it certainly didn't mean he lost his skill, he just couldn't play the way Keenan wanted him to. You can't force guys to play a style they aren't familiar or comfortable with.

Thats ok.....we'll gladly take Tanguay's skill and scoring punch....I don't care if he doesn't go in a corner all season and take a hit.....as long as he fills the net.

He doesn't really fill the net Thats whats so frustrating when he had the chances.

But he will help your other players fill the net just fine.\

You guys thought it was hard to get Ryder to shoot? Tangs is even worse, you'll be screaming at the Tv haha. Its too bad half the players on the Flames can't catch his passes though.

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09-30-2008, 03:04 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by tfong View Post
Is that any better/worse though?

My point saying that Reggie is not bashing anyone. Hes giving his own reasoning why players were moved.

Also

http://weei.com/Ryder-Ready-for-Revenge-on-Habs/3040293

Did Carbo never even talk to Ryder once? That would've been pretty bad handling of affairs if you think about it.

Anyways not saying Carbo is classless either, but I'm trying to give a perspective that Reggie isn't the type to go and bash a player and the way that article puts things together is kinda skewed towards giving you guys that impression.

I think Regehr's a prince. Always liked him.

You did say that the Habs bashed Ryder on the way out. Do you take that back or do you have any quotes where they in fact did this ? As for what Carbo did or didn't, whether a coach deals directly with individual players or charges his staff to do this is an individual choice, usually based on coaching style.

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09-30-2008, 03:08 PM
  #82
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There seems to be a trend starting with the Flames, a great offensive player struggles within the defence system and then thrives when put into a more open system.

Chris Drury struggled in Calgary and then was traded to Buffalo. Going a few year's back Martin St. Louis was released. I hope this is the case with Tanguay, he's a great skater and would complimnent a Kovalev.

Aside, I think the Flames are built for the pre lock out NHL. Clutching and grabbing is no more. Cammalleri is going to struggle as well.
Aside from that 1 crazy year in Buffalo, Drury's stats were pretty consistent each year, including his year in Calgary. Also, Tanguay played several years in Colorado when they were at their peak. So dont expect some magic explosion of points.

Tanguay is a good player. But his refusal to ever shoot will always keep him below 90pts.

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09-30-2008, 03:15 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by tfong View Post
Wings/Flames fan here (in that order).

Honestly I don't think it it was a shot at Tanguay and some of you guys are being a little sensitive there. Tanguay has always been one of my favourite players before he joined the Flames.

I think playing with the Flames made him better as his defensive game has really improved now. Hes not going to bodycheck and smash people on open ice but his positioning is much better and with his stickhandling he'll be a good addition to the Canadiens.

In essence Tanguay was traded not because he was soft (imo) but because he didn't score goals. There were a lot of frustrating times when Tangs would hold onto the puck and look for the pass when he had the perfect opportunity to score. He has one of the best accuracy ratings in the league I might add.

As far as the trade goes, we swapped Tanguay for Cammalleri + a 2nd from you guys. Cammy will put up hopefuly the same amount of points, the difference being that they will be goals instead of assists plus Cammy has a very good slapshot from the point.

Also Calgary isn't a low scoring team, we're 3rd in the conference last I checked for goals for, so that isn't really a accurate statement for the Flames.

Enjoy Tangs Canadiens. I cheer for Montreal as well anyways since their play style is very enjoyable to watch.

Cheers.


EDIT: A side note for you guys. The Habs bashed Ryder pretty hard when he left for Boston. So I don't know what you guys are talking about classless acts. Carbo handled Ryder really poorly imo. Even now, a lot of Montreal fans still bash Ryder on the Canadiens.com forums. So yeah careful who you're saying is classless there eh? Reghre isn't one of them. Check out all the things he does for charity and what he does in Africa
First off, you might wanna go put your reading glasses on, as the poster I responded to was talking about the organization, not the fans. The Habs players and management never said anything bad about the players that left, whereas Sutter went out and badmouthed Tanguay just several weeks ago, and now this.

It's easy to try to mix fans into this, you'll see the same from every fanbase. It's a generalization. You take the reaction of some fans and generalize it to the entire fanbase, to disprove an assertion about the level of class of an organization. What is it with Calgary fans and the weak arguments they give today?

If you wanna go this route, I just can't believe the stuff i've heard about Hamrlik last summer, much of it didn't seem warranted after I saw him play for us this year, whereas, if you look at games Ryder played this year, a lot of it is warranted.

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09-30-2008, 03:15 PM
  #84
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There nothing wrong in saying the player did not fit there style of hockey. Hell he even talk about him being a highly skilled player. I don't really see it as an insult. All gladly take tanguay on my team for a draft pick. I have more of a problem when people make up stuff on a player that not necessarily true or that is not based on facts. I think people get a litle to emotional.

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09-30-2008, 03:16 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
I think Regehr's a prince. Always liked him.

You did say that the Habs bashed Ryder on the way out. Do you take that back or do you have any quotes where they in fact did this ? As for what Carbo did or didn't, whether a coach deals directly with individual players or charges his staff to do this is an individual choice, usually based on coaching style.
Didn't find anything that is remotely solid for that so I'll take that back, my apologies. It was more so for the way Ryder was treated during that time (again it was media only so I don't have anything to give in regards to links). I have a slight soft spot for Ryder since I've always liked his lil bro as a prospect.

I came in here looking for fantasy projections for S.K and found people thinking Regehr was classless I had to defend him! You know how it is.

I don't have much to say about Sutter, hes open and doesn't really sugar coat things as diplomatically as he should. Not my favourite GM but I don't think my opinion of him matters much

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09-30-2008, 03:25 PM
  #86
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Is that any better/worse though?
Are you purposefully missing the point here?

- Someone says that the Habs players and management never did that to any player that left. That person mentions management, because just several weeks ago, Sutter went out and talked badly about Tanguay. He mentions players, because Regher mentions things like playing better defense and that the new players are a better fit, yet Tanguay and Huselius both had good +/- compared to a lot of forwards on the team. That IS a slight at both of them.

- Then I make a distinction between the class of both orgs

- Then you respond with a stupid argument about Habs fans badmouthing Ryder, when your own fanbase did that to Hammer.

- Then someone else again points out to you that it's not the fans, but the orgs we are talking about..

and then you ask, well which is better/worse???

Huh, both fanbase do that, yet the Habs org doesn't, whereas the Flames org does.

Yes it is better, because it is an organization with class. Fans will be the same no matter the city, and how many Flames fans reacted towards Hamrlik proves this.

So yes, the Habs org has more class than the Flames org.

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09-30-2008, 03:27 PM
  #87
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I don't see anywhere in this article that he bashed Alex Tanguay...

All he said that thoses kind of Soft and Skilled players doesn't fit with their team, which is fine with me...

Can you deny that Tanguay isn't soft ? Flames fans have seen him for at least 2years and I trust their words about Tanguay more than any fans in this league except for Colorado Fans who played for their team too.

I'm not sold on Tanguay yet, because I believe that he isn't a playoff performer. He is a top 6 forward, but not a star IMO.

Let's see what he does this year.



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09-30-2008, 03:29 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by tfong View Post
He doesn't really fill the net Thats whats so frustrating when he had the chances.

But he will help your other players fill the net just fine.\

You guys thought it was hard to get Ryder to shoot? Tangs is even worse, you'll be screaming at the Tv haha. Its too bad half the players on the Flames can't catch his passes though.
The problem with Ryder was not that he didn't shoot enough, it was that he didn't score enough compared to before, always shooting off the net, or on the goalie.

Tanguay's first function here is not to score goals. He'll have many capable wingers to pot his passes.

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09-30-2008, 03:29 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Are you purposefully missing the point here?

- Someone says that the Habs players and management never did that to any player that left. That person mentions management, because just several weeks ago, Sutter went out and talked badly about Tanguay. He mentions players, because Regher mentions things like playing better defense and that the new players are a better fit, yet Tanguay and Huselius both had good +/- compared to a lot of forwards on the team. That IS a slight at both of them.

- Then I make a distinction between the class of both orgs

- Then you respond with a stupid argument about Habs fans badmouthing Ryder, when your own fanbase did that to Hammer.

- Then someone else again points out to you that it's not the fans, but the orgs we are talking about..

and then you ask, well which is better/worse???

Huh, both fanbase do that, yet the Habs org doesn't, whereas the Flames org does.

Yes it is better, because it is an organization with class. Fans will be the same no matter the city, and how many Flames fans reacted towards Hamrlik proves this.

So yes, the Habs org has more class than the Flames org.
Keep reading, you'll get to my more recent statements heh. All your replies are really late heh.

Also, someone as well versed in hockey should know that stats don't tell everything. Do you watch Flames games much? Cuz i watch Canadiens games Good +/- does not always translate into good defense.

Also I don't think Tangs is "soft". But he isn't gritty either which I think is what Reggie was trying to say. I still think the reasoning behind the trade was because for 5 mil, they wanted goals not just assists. Tangs has alot of 2nd assists, which isn't bad, but I think management preferred to have goals (hence Cammy coming in).

Lets not get into the "which forums has more class debate" please.

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09-30-2008, 03:29 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
Tanguay was a perfect fit in Calgary when he first went there and was playing under Sutter and Jim Playfair. He put up a lot of points and had some success in Calgary, but as soon as Iron Mike Keenan showed up....Tanguay went downhill and fast. Keenans style just simply didn't suit Tanguays style of play...its as simple as that. That is the only reason Tanguay had a so-so season last year.....it certainly didn't mean he lost his skill, he just couldn't play the way Keenan wanted him to. You can't force guys to play a style they aren't familiar or comfortable with.

Thats ok.....we'll gladly take Tanguay's skill and scoring punch....I don't care if he doesn't go in a corner all season and take a hit.....as long as he fills the net.
Sorry PH, that's exactly what I meant. At the time Calgary obtained Tanguay, I thought it was a great trade for them, and thought he would fit the new system they were trying to implement.

But once Iron Mike was brought in to replace Playfair and changed things around. I knew it was only a matter of time before Tanguay days were numbered as a Flame.

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09-30-2008, 03:30 PM
  #91
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Didn't find anything that is remotely solid for that so I'll take that back, my apologies. It was more so for the way Ryder was treated during that time (again it was media only so I don't have anything to give in regards to links). I have a slight soft spot for Ryder since I've always liked his lil bro as a prospect.

I came in here looking for fantasy projections for S.K and found people thinking Regehr was classless I had to defend him! You know how it is.

I don't have much to say about Sutter, hes open and doesn't really sugar coat things as diplomatically as he should. Not my favourite GM but I don't think my opinion of him matters much

He should have around 55-65 points this year. There's a good chance that he will patrol the point on 1st unit of the Powerplay with Markov.



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09-30-2008, 03:35 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Erika Kostitsyn View Post
I don't see anywhere in this article that he bashed Alex Tanguay...

All he said that thoses kind of Soft and Skilled players doesn't fit with their team, which is fine with me...

Can you deny that Tanguay isn't soft ? Flames fans have seen him for at least 2years and I trust their words about Tanguay more than any fans in this league except for Colorado Fans who played for their team too.
Yeah, and they also said a lot of stuff about Hamrlik which wasn't true.... go wonder.

Y'know, Tanguay is not here to take Sergei's place, so you can stop saying that you are not "sold on him", puhlease, a ppg player, you are not sold on, yet Sergei is the bomb, right?

Gimme a break.

Quote:
I'm not sold on Tanguay yet, because I believe that he isn't a playoff performer. He is a top 6 forward, but not a star IMO.

Let's see what he does this year.


Erika


Go back to hockey school.

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09-30-2008, 03:36 PM
  #93
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He should have around 55-65 points this year. There's a good chance that he will patrol the point on 1st unit of the Powerplay with Markov.


Thanks

Wow a 30 point increase??? I was a little skeptical of that because A.Kostitsyn has 50 points while S only had 27? Err do you mind if I ask what the reasoning is behind such a large increase for him this year?

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09-30-2008, 03:37 PM
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Keep reading, you'll get to my more recent statements heh. All your replies are really late heh.

Also, someone as well versed in hockey should know that stats don't tell everything. Do you watch Flames games much? Cuz i watch Canadiens games Good +/- does not always translate into good defense.

Also I don't think Tangs is "soft". But he isn't gritty either which I think is what Reggie was trying to say. I still think the reasoning behind the trade was because for 5 mil, they wanted goals not just assists. Tangs has alot of 2nd assists, which isn't bad, but I think management preferred to have goals (hence Cammy coming in).

Lets not get into the "which forums has more class debate" please.

Yet most players on the Habs who had good +/- did play good defensively... and I watched most games.

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09-30-2008, 03:38 PM
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Thanks

Wow a 30 point increase??? I was a little skeptical of that because A.Kostitsyn has 50 points while S only had 27? Err do you mind if I ask what the reasoning is behind such a large increase for him this year?
Quite simple.....

Wetdreams of Sergei

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09-30-2008, 03:39 PM
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Thanks

Wow a 30 point increase??? I was a little skeptical of that because A.Kostitsyn has 50 points while S only had 27? Err do you mind if I ask what the reasoning is behind such a large increase for him this year?
Actually if he plays the point with Markov, I think 50ish makes sense.

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09-30-2008, 03:40 PM
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Yeah, and they also said a lot of stuff about Hamrlik which wasn't true.... go wonder.

Y'know, Tanguay is not here to take Sergei's place, so you can stop saying that you are not "sold on him", puhlease, a ppg player, you are not sold on, yet Sergei is the bomb, right?

Gimme a break.



Erika


Go back to hockey school.

Is that the best you can do ?! WOW !! That was weak.

Are you frustrated because I don't have the same opinion as you ?! lol

Bring me some good arguments instead of thinking that you're the hockey god and that the world is spinning around you.


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09-30-2008, 03:40 PM
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Didn't find anything that is remotely solid for that so I'll take that back, my apologies. It was more so for the way Ryder was treated during that time (again it was media only so I don't have anything to give in regards to links). I have a slight soft spot for Ryder since I've always liked his lil bro as a prospect.

I came in here looking for fantasy projections for S.K and found people thinking Regehr was classless I had to defend him! You know how it is.

I don't have much to say about Sutter, hes open and doesn't really sugar coat things as diplomatically as he should. Not my favourite GM but I don't think my opinion of him matters much
Yet nobody said Regerh was classless. I think it had more to do that Regerh's comments adds to what Sutter said several weeks ago, and that was very classless.

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09-30-2008, 03:41 PM
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Yet most players on the Habs who had good +/- did play good defensively... and I watched most games.
I was referring to the Flames games.

Huselius had a giant +/- but if you watch him, its because Langkow is there as the defensive presence. Huselius is not very good defensively in that he is not aggressive and won't block shots and doesn't have good positioning.

Tangs I think is avg in defense (better than Ryder imo) mostly because he gained alot of PK experience but I never understood why, because again he won't take the body often and will not be blocking many shots. Mostly only stickchecking, though I suspect they wanted him to get SH goals and for his outlet pass to get the puck out of the zone.

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09-30-2008, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Erika Kostitsyn View Post
Is that the best you can do ?! WOW !! That was weak.

Are you frustrated because I don't have the same opinion as you ?! lol

Bring me some good arguments instead of thinking that you're the hockey god and that the world is spinning around you.

Well, isn't that the kettle calling the pot black.

You NEVER bring good arguments. only BIAS. Grow-up kiddo.

Worst is, I did bring arguments, relating facts, whereas you have only given your super 'opinion'.

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