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Max Pac To Start Year in Hamilton

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Old
09-30-2008, 10:54 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by David View Post
Latendresse was given many opportunities since his first training camp on all forward lines and all he did was disappoint.

True, power forwards take longer to develop but the bottom line is that he has disappointed every year up to now. This is also another reason why he shouldn't have been up with the big club when so young.

Will he have a better year this year? I hope so. But the bottom line remains that Latendresse has failed to live up to his hype so far.

Now, that is pathetic...and your biased opinion.
Whenever Lats played with Koivu he looked very good. Whenever he plays with Chipchura he looks good. When he plays with 4th liners he looks like one.

And what bias? I'm an anglo living in Toronto...

And I'm no fan of the hype machine either. I just wish our young players could just play and develop and not have this ridiculous language thing become an issue.

I like Lats because I think he has a rare combination of skills. IE great size, strength, shot, hands and passing...

I like Pacioretty because of his size, speed, skills, tenacity and potential.

I'm not a big fan of Higgins as a prospect due to his age and the fact he doesn't create for others (he's a one man guy), and has difficulty finishing. I still think he is a great player, and love him as a hab, but just see him as the odd man out due to the great talent coming up...

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09-30-2008, 10:55 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by GoHabsGo247 View Post
I'll actually disagree with you here, not because I don't agree with your assessment of Sergei's recent play though.

Sergei's style probably fits us a bit better, plus big brother plays here and they share a special chemistry. However, the real kicker is: Higgins has a higher trade value (contrary to HF Habs fans beliefs). I'd be willing to bet if any forward is booted off the team before the deadline for Patch, it'll be Higgins (traded, for, #4 D perhaps?)

edit: And its not because I dislike Higgins, I absolutely love what he brings for the team. I'm just looking at it as a GM.
I agree. Thats a very probable scenario

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09-30-2008, 10:55 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by David View Post
What do you think that a power forward is if not this?
A power forward is a player who powers his way to the net with the puck, carries pucks into the zone uses his size/speed to create havoc...

Hence... size,speed and finish.

GL is not that, he's a big body presence who has to hang around the net and get open for passes....he doesn't have the wheels to be a power forward, he won't drive the net with pucks because he can't beat guys.

But what he does have is a nose for the net, finding pucks and scoring close in...back to back 16 goal seasons, most his goals were scored within 5 feet in scrums.

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09-30-2008, 10:55 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
I know its just after the game, but... seriously? Is Andrei Kostitsyn chopped liver?
Show me an Andrei Kost shootout goal that tops this one.

Not saying that Pac has better hands than Andrei, but man does he have hands.

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09-30-2008, 10:56 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoHabsGo247 View Post
You asked why I'd give up Higgins, I responded.

Just curious what your opinion is on the matter. I think our offensive - Higgins, but our defense + another Top4 = a better overall team. Just my opinion?
I disagree, I see no point in trading Higgins, he's the prototype player the Habs wanted a few years back when they had no one in the far. He's a guy who wants to lead by example, he's a hard worker, he loves the Habs, he can be put in any situation and even excel in some(PK) and he was brought up in the organisation. You want more guys like that, not less.

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09-30-2008, 10:56 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Angrychair View Post
Seriously, on that shootout goal, I don't think i've seen hands like that on a Habs player besides Kovalev. He looked like a seasoned pro on that one.

My dad flipped when he found out he's just 19.
The hands werent that great. We've seen alot of that on this team.

What I fucused on on that shootout goal was his stride. That guy skates so well with the puck. It's something I'm not used to see in "power foward" type prospects in this organization.
That camera angle from ice level behind him was revealing.

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09-30-2008, 10:56 PM
  #107
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Can we just stick with reality here?

- Latendresse cannot be send down 'cause he has to go through waivers and as pathetic as some think he is, he'll be claim in a second.

- Though as fast as he would be claimed, he has not a lot of value in the trade market, so what's the point in trading him to not get something valuable in return?

- He's still young and learning. We're not talking about the same kind of skills, but I heard the same type of comments about tons of youngsters in the league and the teams that persisted with them actually saw their kids develop. Why are we in a rush again?

- MaxPac as great as he is, is still doing it in the preseason. We all remember how Marcel Hossa was great in preseason do we? The kid has played 30ish games last season. Are we actually ready to play him more than 10 games this year, lose 1 year of eligibility for then realize that he might not be ready after all? MaxPac available at 26 years old for 15 games played and maybe a role in the 4th line playing 5 or 6 minutes a game?

- It's just a question to let that roster do the work and then if it doesn't work, if Lats, SKost or any other 4 liners are terribly underachieving and MaxPac is destroying the competion, bring him home. But why now?

Just because we're so happy to see him and he's exciting to see play is not a wise decision in today's post-cap world.


Last edited by Whitesnake: 09-30-2008 at 11:01 PM.
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Old
09-30-2008, 10:56 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Angrychair View Post
Show me an Andrei Kost shootout goal that tops this one.
EDIT: Oh, you want a shootout goal? Yeah, um... hands on a shootout goal... not difficult.

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09-30-2008, 10:57 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Jaydee96 View Post
Our D will definatly be better, thats for certain but, i dont know about up front. Higgins creates alot of our chances. We lose alot of attack without him.
I fully see your point, I could understand it.. And like I said, I love Higgins.

If I we're GM I'd be talking with him now about his intentions, what he's looking for. He's the type of player I'd have no problem with negotiating with early in the season, he has been our most consistent scorer over the past 3 seasons (despite his long draughts, but his full-season production is always spot on). If he is looking for more then Bob thinks he's worth, I'd consider shopping him for that elusive D I speak of to atleast help us solidify that.

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09-30-2008, 10:57 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
S.Kost was brutal tonight, lost the puck on many occasions, wasn't working very hard too, had trouble all night finding his teammates, it's not our problem if she can't bring in logical arguments about him

Sergei Kostitsyn shows up when it counts the most. Just you wait when the season begins, the kid will fly on the Ice...

Also, did you see the amazing lateral pass that he made to Plekanec ?! Between the legs of the Defencemen, tape to tape, Plekanec missed the goal by a hair... Or the other one he made to Kostopoulos in front of the net... Kosto shot the puck right into the pads of Jimmy Howard ?!

Sergei Kostitsyn not even trying and it created 2 amazing scoring chances...

Like it or not, Sergei Kostitsyn is a lock on this team, so go cry in you're little room if you hate him.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 10-01-2008 at 02:01 AM.
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Old
09-30-2008, 10:58 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Jaydee96 View Post
Latendresse wont ever be a goal scoring power forward.
He has never done anything unless he played with Koivu.
Koivu is not getting any younger.
I disagree once again.

Latendresse is a goal scoring power forward who needs a set up man. Case in point is Koivu. When Latendresse plays with someone who can feed him the puck, he can get open to finish the play. That was his strong point in the juniors when Derrek Brassard did all the work then gave the puck to the open Latendresse for the finish.

However, up until now, he has been too slow to be in the right position at the right time to finish those plays in NHL.

Latendresse is a talented power forward who needs to get his speed up to NHL level so that he can keep up with the offensive plays...and all he needs, once he finishes developing his defensive game, is a set up man like a Brassard or a Koivu to be his Adam Oates to Cam Neeley.

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09-30-2008, 10:58 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
After watching tonight's game and hearing Carbo's post-game comments, for the first time I see Pacioretty having an outside chance at getting a gig on the 3rd line to start the season.

It's a zero-sum game, if he makes the team one of the 6 offensive wingers gets the heave-ho. I've read some posters mentionning Higgins or SKost as being in danger. Anything is possible. However, the guy whose name has been whispered the most in the media has been Latendresse.

He's added some speed and has hustled during preseason. I think the best way for Latendresse to secure his position is to put up points on the scoreboard.

The only problem is he only does that when he plays with Koivu

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09-30-2008, 10:58 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Something i'm wondering is, i'll throw this outthere:

Who would you choose, Higgins or Pacioretty to play with Saku? Because if you keep Max Pac, you have to play him a lot. You cannot put him on the fourth line in my opinion. And the solution would be trading Higgins for a D.
If trading Higgins can bring us a legitimate top 4 defenseman to play quality minutes alongside Hamrlik and man the PP with Markov, I'd certainly consider it.

Not because I don't like Higgins, quite to the contrary! You have to give something good to get good players in return.

But my concern it that Max Pac might not be quite as ready as he's demonstrated so far. Let's face it, teams are playing with half their line-ups right now and the competition will only get better when the puck drops for real.

Still though, D'Agostini and Stewart might be NHL ready and we'd have to include one of our defensemen in that trade to make room for that top 4.

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09-30-2008, 11:00 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Can we just stick with reality here?

- Latendresse cannot be send down 'cause he has to go through waivers and as pathetic as some think he is, he'll be claim in a second.

- Though as fast as he would be claimed, he has not a lot of value in the trade market, so what's the point in trading him to not get something valuable in return?

- He's still young and learning. We're not talking about the same kind of skills, but I heard the same type of comments about tons of youngsters in the league and the teams that persisted with them actually saw their kids develop. Why are we in a rush again?

- MaxPac as great as he is, is still doing it in the preseason. We all remember how Marcel Hossa was great in preseason do we? The kid has played 30ish games last season. Are we actually ready to play him more than 10 games this year, lose 1 year of eligibility for then realize that he might not be ready after all? MaxPac available at 26 years old for 15 games played and maybe a role in the 4th line playing 6 or 6 minutes a game?

- It's just a question to let that roster do the work and then if it doesn't work, if Lats, SKost or any other 4 liners are terribly underachieving and MaxPac is destroying the competion, bring him home. But why now?

Just because we're so happy to see him and he's exciting to see play is not a wise decision in today's post-cap world.
Very good post, to me it's sheer lunacy we're entertaining the idea of trading either Higgins or Latendresse for the sake of seeing Pacioretty or a random top 4 D-man. It's also lunacy to judge some of the guys on the team based on pre-season play, namely Sergei Kostitsyn. We get it, he has one fan who likes him a lot, this is no reason to bash him.

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09-30-2008, 11:02 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by David View Post
I disagree once again.

Latendresse is a goal scoring power forward who needs a set up man. Case in point is Koivu. When Latendresse plays with someone who can feed him the puck, he can get open to finish the play. That was his strong point in the juniors when Derrek Brassard did all the work then gave the puck to the open Latendresse for the finish.

However, up until now, he has been too slow to be in the right position at the right time to finish those plays in NHL.

Latendresse is a talented power forward who needs to get his speed up to NHL level so that he can keep up with the offensive plays...and all he needs, once he finishes developing his defensive game, is a set up man like a Brassard or a Koivu to be his Adam Oates to Cam Neeley.
It's 2 years he is in the league and still his speed hasnt changed.
He's young, its the easiest time to lose wheight and gain speed.
It's his THIRD year in the league, he should have drastically improoved his speed by now.

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09-30-2008, 11:02 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by znk View Post
The hands werent that great. We've seen alot of that on this team.

What I fucused on on that shootout goal was his stride. That guy skates so well with the puck. It's something I'm not used to see in "power foward" type prospects in this organization.
That camera angle from ice level behind him was revealing.
He does have a powerfull stride. But the way he stickhandled and roofed that puck was crazy. I've seen the goal only once though so maybe im overrating it a little but I doubt Andrei could do that in the nhl when he was 19.

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09-30-2008, 11:02 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Can we just stick with reality here?

- Latendresse cannot be send down 'cause he has to go through waivers and as pathetic as some think he is, he'll be claim in a second.
I don't know how accurate it is, but during the game Gord Miller said Latendresse can be sent down since he has only played in 153 games whereas the limit for needing to clear waivers is 160.

added the link showing that Gord Miller is wrong as playoff games count as well thus giving Latendresse 153+8=161 games

http://www.nhlscap.com/waivers.htm


Last edited by HABitual Fan: 09-30-2008 at 11:18 PM. Reason: added link
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Old
09-30-2008, 11:02 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Kareem View Post
Very good post, to me it's sheer lunacy we're entertaining the idea of trading either Higgins or Latendresse for the sake of seeing Pacioretty or a random top 4 D-man. It's also lunacy to judge some of the guys on the team based on pre-season play, namely Sergei Kostitsyn. We get it, he has one fan who likes him a lot, this is no reason to bash him.


Most of the people really Hates Sergei now for some reasons... and you called yourself Habs fans



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09-30-2008, 11:02 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Erika Kostitsyn View Post
Sergei Kostitsyn shows up when it counts the most. Just you wait when the season begins, the kid will fly on the Ice...

Also, did you see the amazing lateral pass that he made to Plekanec ?! Between the legs of the Defencemen, tape to tape, Plekanec missed the goal by a hair... Or the other one he made to Kostopoulos in front of the net... Kosto shot the puck right into the pads of Jimmy Howard ?!

Sergei Kostitsyn not even trying and it created 2 amazing scoring chances...

Like it or not, Sergei Kostitsyn is a lock on this team, so go cry in you're little room if you hate him.



No one here actually hates SK. I'm sure almost everyone here likes him. Fact is, he had a bad game tonight.

You're the one who seems to be having a hard time accepting Chipchura had a better game. See, most of us, unlike you WANT our prospects to play well.

Face it, Chipchura is NHL material, period. You were wrong, now can you stop hating a prospect to a prove a now non-existent point?

And if anyone here hates Sergei, it's your fault actually. Which is pretty retarded, but that's how it is.

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09-30-2008, 11:03 PM
  #120
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Pac played very well tonight. He has a lot of talent and he has a great potential... but is that the 1st time you see a rookie playing great at a camp ? lats had 2 great training camps in a row... and he's still not one of the best of our team but he's improving. and now, some people suggest we should trade higgins or keep pac over lats on the team wake up guys. it was one pre-season game. if he had an ok game tonight, there would be no question that he would have been sent to hamilton... but now, he has one great game, and we are already talking about trading higgins to make room for him

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09-30-2008, 11:05 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by couz View Post
A power forward is a player who powers his way to the net with the puck, carries pucks into the zone uses his size/speed to create havoc...

Hence... size,speed and finish.

GL is not that, he's a big body presence who has to hang around the net and get open for passes....he doesn't have the wheels to be a power forward, he won't drive the net with pucks because he can't beat guys.

But what he does have is a nose for the net, finding pucks and scoring close in...back to back 16 goal seasons, most his goals were scored within 5 feet in scrums.
Wrong. Power forwards are not do-it-all utility men.

Cam Neeley is a protypical power forward for the generations. His game was very similar to what Latendresse wants to develop into. Pretty simiar to Keith Tkachuk and Brandon Shannan in their primes.

You are confused by the likes of Eric Lindros and Rick Nash who can dangle the puck more, but that's just gravy and a testament to their talent.

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09-30-2008, 11:05 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Jaydee96 View Post
It's 2 years he is in the league and still his speed hasnt changed.
He's young, its the easiest time to lose wheight and gain speed.
It's his THIRD year in the league, he should have drastically improoved his speed by now.
According to sources around the team, he has though. I think that people are too quick to pounce on Latendresse. It was amazing that he made the team at 19, but I was saying it then and I'm still saying it now, it was a mistake. He should have been sent back to junior!

Having said that, he's only 21 and I'm certainly not ready to throw the towel in his case, far from that!

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09-30-2008, 11:06 PM
  #123
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The inevitable shash-macking thread ... I look forward to these ...

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09-30-2008, 11:06 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by HotPie View Post
No one here actually hates SK. I'm sure almost everyone here likes him. Fact is, he had a bad game tonight.

You're the one who seems to be having a hard time accepting Chipchura had a better game. See, most of us, unlike you WANT our prospects to play well.

Face it, Chipchura is NHL material, period. You were wrong, now can you stop hating a prospect to a prove a now non-existent point?

I will if he can perform well in the NHL... REGULAR SEASON GAME, not againts some B or C opposition team. He hasn't proved anything yet.



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09-30-2008, 11:07 PM
  #125
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I dont know why everyone wants to trade Higgins...

What I'm understanding right now is.
Some would rather trade Higgins then put Lats on a 4th line. Is that what I'm supposed to understand?

If we are serious about being cup contenders we arent trading Higgins unless he's in a package for an Elite player.

But as it stand I can live with starting the season with lines close to this.
A.Kost-Plekanec-Kovalev
Tangay-Koivu-Higgins
Pacioretty-Lang-S.Kost
Laraque/Begin-Chipchura-Lats
Kost

Higgins is not a UFA he's an RFA and if A.Kost's contract is any indication Ganey can get him at a good price. And if it comes to chose between Lats and Higgins....there is no way I'm chosing Lats.

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