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Old
10-01-2008, 09:20 AM
  #26
Marksman
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Pair Time EV PP SH +/-

3 O'Byrne 68 Weber
7:08 6:19 0:00 0:49 +1

26 Gorges 3 O'Byrne
3:51 3:18 0:07 0:26 E

3 O'Byrne 71 Brisebois
3:01 3:01 0:00 0:00 E

51 Bouillon 3 O'Byrne
2:15 2:15 0:00 0:00 E

3 O'Byrne 8 Komisarek
1:21 0:46 0:00 0:35 E


O'Byrne had to take shift with every other dman we had playing last night, of course hes going to have problems.

Carbo.

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Old
10-01-2008, 09:20 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcE ColD View Post
Let's just not forget that :

1. It's pre-season
2. He wasn't playing on his good side
3. He'll never be a top 4 d-man
4. Has a big total of 33 games of experience in the NHL

Give the guy a break. Yeah, he was horrible, but **** can happen.
Game, set and match.

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Old
10-01-2008, 09:20 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcE ColD View Post
Let's just not forget that :

1. It's pre-season
2. He wasn't playing on his good side
3. He'll never be a top 4 d-man
4. Has a big total of 33 games of experience in the NHL

Give the guy a break. Yeah, he was horrible, but **** can happen.
I think he'll be a top 4 guy in a year or 2, he's not that far off.

He looked flat footed on a few occasions, he looked far from horrible, you are badly exagerating. Detroit is the quickest most up-tempo team in the NHL, I doubt O'b is the first or last guy they force to make a bad pass or take a penality.

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Old
10-01-2008, 09:24 AM
  #29
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Personally I think he's going to be awesome this year.

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10-01-2008, 09:26 AM
  #30
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It's unfair to judge a guy playing on his wrong side, esp. righty playing left. I thought they ruined Robidas here doing that.

- Yeah, just a pre season game, but floundering on his wrong side can affect his confidence.

- Are they thinking that a #7 has to play both sides ? I hope not, but Gorges always can move to the left so...

- They played Detroit and no team pressures the puck as well as they do.

-Bouillon didn't look very good so I'm not bullish on the D overall, but again, pre-season.

-O'bryne is a work in progress but he's on a team with higher expectations, so how the D evolves bears watching right now.

-I hope the crowd that resembles a child who didn't get their x box for Christmas, doesn't make his development miserable.

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10-01-2008, 10:08 AM
  #31
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But you have to assume that if he plays with Hammer he'll get more minutes than Bouillon and Gorges.

It goes by pairings...1st pairing is Komo/Markov...

2nd OB/Hammer

3rd Gorges/Bou

I'd rather see Gorges get a shot with Hammer.

I think that's why he's getting labelled as the #4 guy.

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10-01-2008, 10:18 AM
  #32
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Because O'Byrne is so overrated on this forum, I got slammed a few weeks ago when stating that he was awkward looking out there... but he truly is. He gets caught out of position more often than Bill Clinton! Yes he's young, yes he's big, yes he has "potential", but the potential just isn't turning into results quite yet. I'd like nothing more than having another Komisarek back there but he doesn't hit as hard because his timing isn't as good (yet), and he's slow in his decision making. And that's why I'm hoping so hard that we trade for a true top 4 defenseman.

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10-01-2008, 10:20 AM
  #33
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Not worried about him, he's a rookie defenseman. People forget Komi wasn't exactly a Norris candidate in his first 2 seasons.

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Old
10-01-2008, 10:22 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I think he'll be a top 4 guy in a year or 2, he's not that far off.

He looked flat footed on a few occasions, he looked far from horrible, you are badly exagerating. Detroit is the quickest most up-tempo team in the NHL, I doubt O'b is the first or last guy they force to make a bad pass or take a penality.
#4 is his ceiling. Come on, the guy'll never be a Komi or even a Hamrlik. You're talking about up-tempo teams, Detroit has team "C" on the ice. Most NHL teams are getting speedier by the year.

It's pre-season, but please don't overrate the guy. He'll be good, but face it, all our prospect aren't 1st-2nd liners as well as top 3 D-men, and to be frank, that is actually quite OK with me.

Keep it real.

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Old
10-01-2008, 10:23 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Because O'Byrne is so overrated on this forum, I got slammed a few weeks ago when stating that he was awkward looking out there... but he truly is. He gets caught out of position more often than Bill Clinton! Yes he's young, yes he's big, yes he has "potential", but the potential just isn't turning into results quite yet. I'd like nothing more than having another Komisarek back there but he doesn't hit as hard because his timing isn't as good (yet), and he's slow in his decision making. And that's why I'm hoping so hard that we trade for a true top 4 defenseman.
Just like Komisarek, he's got to learn his way.

Personally, I think O'Byrne is further along at this point in his NHL career, than Komisarek was 30 or so games in.

He'll start the year out with Hamrlik because he's a stabilizing presence, but he's going to start out playing 'soft minutes'. When situations get difficult or the game is tight, you're going to see Bouillon and/or Gorges getting minutes besides Hamrlik.

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Old
10-01-2008, 10:28 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by couz View Post
But you have to assume that if he plays with Hammer he'll get more minutes than Bouillon and Gorges.

It goes by pairings...1st pairing is Komo/Markov...

2nd OB/Hammer

3rd Gorges/Bou

I'd rather see Gorges get a shot with Hammer.

I think that's why he's getting labelled as the #4 guy.
O'b gets no PP time and not a lot of PK time, that's why Hamrlik, Bouillon and Gorges get more ice time than he does.

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Old
10-01-2008, 10:28 AM
  #37
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Yep he still looks awkward out there. This D is not what you'd expect on a Cup contender.... still that's many games away and lots can happen.

I'm not down on O'Byrne, he's learning, and needs to be on the big club. But his camp has been average from the games I caught and the door's been open - he's lucky none of the other D prospects have ripped it up, the coach may have second thoughts.

Hopefully he'll settle down with Hammer, he's been very nervous out there. Still a rough road ahead for him.

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10-01-2008, 10:32 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcE ColD View Post
#4 is his ceiling. Come on, the guy'll never be a Komi or even a Hamrlik. You're talking about up-tempo teams, Detroit has team "C" on the ice. Most NHL teams are getting speedier by the year.

It's pre-season, but please don't overrate the guy. He'll be good, but face it, all our prospect aren't 1st-2nd liners as well as top 3 D-men, and to be frank, that is actually quite OK with me.

Keep it real.
Detroit had Hossa and about 2/3 of the regular forwards dressed. What usually helps O'b is he plays with a good puck moving d-man(Hamrlik, maybe Weber or Subban in the future) like Komi with Markov.

You need a mix of skilled puck movers and big physical guys.

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Old
10-01-2008, 10:34 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Just like Komisarek, he's got to learn his way.

Personally, I think O'Byrne is further along at this point in his NHL career, than Komisarek was 30 or so games in.

He'll start the year out with Hamrlik because he's a stabilizing presence, but he's going to start out playing 'soft minutes'. When situations get difficult or the game is tight, you're going to see Bouillon and/or Gorges getting minutes besides Hamrlik.
Although I do agree with the statement that he has to learn his way, I strongly disagree with him being ahead of Komisarek at the same point... far from there.

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Old
10-01-2008, 10:40 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Although I do agree with the statement that he has to learn his way, I strongly disagree with him being ahead of Komisarek at the same point... far from there.
Really? Komisarek looked AWFUL when he started out...in fact, I think he was even older and had more pro experience than O'Byrne had when he started.

The thing with guys like Komisarek & O'Byrne is that they've always been the biggest and strongest players at every level they've played at but when they get to the NHL, it takes time to understand how to properly use their technique, because you can be the biggest or strongest in the NHL, but that doesn't mean you'll be successful.

it took Komi a few years to understand that, it's going to be the same with O'Byrne. It wasn't until Komi was paired with Markov did his game settle down...same deal with O'Byrne, thankfully, the Habs have Hamrlik

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10-01-2008, 10:40 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Just like Komisarek, he's got to learn his way.

Personally, I think O'Byrne is further along at this point in his NHL career, than Komisarek was 30 or so games in.

He'll start the year out with Hamrlik because he's a stabilizing presence, but he's going to start out playing 'soft minutes'. When situations get difficult or the game is tight, you're going to see Bouillon and/or Gorges getting minutes besides Hamrlik.
1st year after the lockout, a lot of us, myself included. were worried that just maybe Komi might not quite be what we were expecting. He had some flaws and some were concerned that they would be permanent. I remember talking in particular to Deandebean about it. Then, he started to improve, and drastically.

So, O'b isn't Komisarek. He doesn't have the presence that Komi does. So, yeah, he probably is farther ahead in terms of games, though age has to be considered too. I agree with Ice Cold though, O'b can be on a team, can contribute but I don't see him being more than a solid stay at home guy with some phsical abilities.

If that's what he is, fine, I'm happy with a Craig Ludwig lite.

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Old
10-01-2008, 10:40 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcE ColD View Post
#4 is his ceiling. Come on, the guy'll never be a Komi or even a Hamrlik. You're talking about up-tempo teams, Detroit has team "C" on the ice. Most NHL teams are getting speedier by the year.

It's pre-season, but please don't overrate the guy. He'll be good, but face it, all our prospect aren't 1st-2nd liners as well as top 3 D-men, and to be frank, that is actually quite OK with me.

Keep it real.
O_o You just said he'll "never be a #4 D". That's what he was replying to...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Really? Komisarek looked AWFUL when he started out...in fact, I think he was even older and had more pro experience than O'Byrne had when he started.

The thing with guys like Komisarek & O'Byrne is that they've always been the biggest and strongest players at every level they've played at but when they get to the NHL, it takes time to understand how to properly use their technique, because you can be the biggest or strongest in the NHL, but that doesn't mean you'll be successful.

it took Komi a few years to understand that, it's going to be the same with O'Byrne. It wasn't until Komi was paired with Markov did his game settle down...same deal with O'Byrne, thankfully, the Habs have Hamrlik
During the lockout Hainsey was looking like the better D.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 10-01-2008 at 12:16 PM.
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Old
10-01-2008, 10:44 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
O'b gets no PP time and not a lot of PK time, that's why Hamrlik, Bouillon and Gorges get more ice time than he does.
True...but its also about matchups and on some nights the Hammer pairing may face some top two line players, which in that case may not be a good matchup just yet for OB.

As it stands...I'd prefer Gorges with Hammer and OB/Bouillon.

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Old
10-01-2008, 10:45 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blades 0f Steel View Post
O_o You just said he'll "never be a #4 D". That's what he was replying to...
I said he'll never be a top 4. He could maybe be a #4, but doubt he'll get there.

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10-01-2008, 10:54 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Because O'Byrne is so overrated on this forum, I got slammed a few weeks ago when stating that he was awkward looking out there... but he truly is. He gets caught out of position more often than Bill Clinton! Yes he's young, yes he's big, yes he has "potential", but the potential just isn't turning into results quite yet. I'd like nothing more than having another Komisarek back there but he doesn't hit as hard because his timing isn't as good (yet), and he's slow in his decision making. And that's why I'm hoping so hard that we trade for a true top 4 defenseman.
Im so tired of these kind of statements...OByrne has like 40 NHL games under his belt, what do you expect? Not a lot of Dman can come in this league and perform at a high level right away. It takes time. It took time with Markov, Komi and even Hamrlik who was considered a big bust after being selected 1st overall. PA-TI-EN-CE. OByrne has really good potential but now he is raw. He needs to play games right now.

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10-01-2008, 10:54 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Detroit had Hossa and about 2/3 of the regular forwards dressed. What usually helps O'b is he plays with a good puck moving d-man(Hamrlik, maybe Weber or Subban in the future) like Komi with Markov.

You need a mix of skilled puck movers and big physical guys.
I agree with your assessment of a mix of of skilled puck movers and big physical guy. Who wouldn't

But when you say that Detroit has about 2/3 of the regular forwards on the ice, I can tell you I didn't see the likes of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Samuelsson and Cleary (I dunno if I missed one), which is about half of their regulars...

All in all, I'm just saying that I don't think O'Byrne will be a top 4. If he is, bravo to him. That's only my fair opinion, it's probably just as good as yours.

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10-01-2008, 11:44 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Jaydee96 View Post
He needs to play with Hamrlik.
It seems without Hamrlik he's lost out there.

Last night is no surprise he was lost, he played with Brisebois, did you expect him to look like Lidstrom? The 2 of them were nothing short of Brutal!
He also played with Weber that had his worst game.

O'Byrne will take time to develop, just like Komi was. He'll learn and become a lot better when paired with Hammer.
I'm not worried at all.

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Old
10-01-2008, 11:56 AM
  #48
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The only things we have really 'learned' is that he can't play the left side, just like 99% of righty shooting defenceman out there and that he needs to play with a solid puck moving vet to stabilize him (Hamrlik or Markov, O'Byrne's best pre-season game was last Friday against Ottawa playing with Markov).

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10-01-2008, 12:07 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by jcpenny View Post
Im so tired of these kind of statements...OByrne has like 40 NHL games under his belt, what do you expect? Not a lot of Dman can come in this league and perform at a high level right away. It takes time. It took time with Markov, Komi and even Hamrlik who was considered a big bust after being selected 1st overall. PA-TI-EN-CE. OByrne has really good potential but now he is raw. He needs to play games right now.
You can get tired of it as much as you want, it doesn't change the reality, which is what's happening on the ice. He takes stupid penalties due to exactly what I've described, another fact! I don't have high expectations for O'Byrne at the moment. I'm simply stating what I see at this time in his career. Not once have I said that he has no potential, but if we want to win NOW, it will have to be without O'Byrne on our top two pairings. That's all.

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10-01-2008, 12:17 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
You can get tired of it as much as you want, it doesn't change the reality, which is what's happening on the ice. He takes stupid penalties due to exactly what I've described, another fact! I don't have high expectations for O'Byrne at the moment. I'm simply stating what I see at this time in his career. Not once have I said that he has no potential, but if we want to win NOW, it will have to be without O'Byrne on our top two pairings. That's all.
When has he taken a stupid penality? He gets the occasional obstruction penality which all d-men get at times, I prefer that to letting guys walk around you like Souray did his last year.

He's not yet Komisarek but Komi is probably the top physical d-man/shot blocker around.

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