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Old
10-01-2008, 12:21 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
You can get tired of it as much as you want, it doesn't change the reality, which is what's happening on the ice. He takes stupid penalties due to exactly what I've described, another fact! I don't have high expectations for O'Byrne at the moment. I'm simply stating what I see at this time in his career. Not once have I said that he has no potential, but if we want to win NOW, it will have to be without O'Byrne on our top two pairings. That's all.
There is no need to make the move now..... we only have 2 mill or so in cap space.

2 million now gets you a pretty ****** defenceman... heck Jeff Finger is getting nearly double that.

However you play O'Byrne from now till February... he gets 50-60 games more NHL experience. At that point you can make a trade for a top 4 D at the deadline.

The 2million in capspace that you have now, allows you to take on a contract of up to 7million dollars since 3/4 of the season has already past, you only take 1/4 of the cap hit.

Right now I agree a top 4 D is necessary, but at the same time we aren't gonna be in trouble in January if we haven't gotten one yet. And who knows how much O'Byrne or Gorges might improve in those 4 months.... Its possible they could make getting another D unneccessary.

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10-01-2008, 12:33 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
There is no need to make the move now..... we only have 2 mill or so in cap space.

2 million now gets you a pretty ****** defenceman... heck Jeff Finger is getting nearly double that.

However you play O'Byrne from now till February... he gets 50-60 games more NHL experience. At that point you can make a trade for a top 4 D at the deadline.

The 2million in capspace that you have now, allows you to take on a contract of up to 7million dollars since 3/4 of the season has already past, you only take 1/4 of the cap hit.

Right now I agree a top 4 D is necessary, but at the same time we aren't gonna be in trouble in January if we haven't gotten one yet. And who knows how much O'Byrne or Gorges might improve in those 4 months.... Its possible they could make getting another D unneccessary.
I agree with your post, look at Detroit last year adding Stuart. The way guys like Redden are getting big contracts, it's worth spending an asset to get a rental versus paying insane dollars for 5-6 years for a guy to be #3 or 4.

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10-01-2008, 12:43 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
There is no need to make the move now..... we only have 2 mill or so in cap space.

2 million now gets you a pretty ****** defenceman... heck Jeff Finger is getting nearly double that.

However you play O'Byrne from now till February... he gets 50-60 games more NHL experience. At that point you can make a trade for a top 4 D at the deadline.

The 2million in capspace that you have now, allows you to take on a contract of up to 7million dollars since 3/4 of the season has already past, you only take 1/4 of the cap hit.

Right now I agree a top 4 D is necessary, but at the same time we aren't gonna be in trouble in January if we haven't gotten one yet. And who knows how much O'Byrne or Gorges might improve in those 4 months.... Its possible they could make getting another D unneccessary.
I don't think we need one today. I think it's talking prematurely. At the deadline, I guess it's like you said, O'Byrne/Breezer/Gorges/Bouillon have 4months to all show us we do not need an extra D.
But we haven't seen our complete regular line up once.
After the first 10-20 regular season games, we'll have a better idea as to what we need.
O'Byrne hasn't been horrific, some people exaggerate a little too much. He's not having the best camp, but him and Breezer alternating 4th might be a good thing.
It will also be the first time we truly see how fast O'Byrne develops.
Personally, I thought he had a great start until he broke his thumb. After a bit more than a month off, it's always though to get back in perfect shape. It's also normal for a youngster to make mistakes, but I thought he did a much better job in his NHL debute season than Komi did.

I think many will be surprised by O'Byrne this season. Once he gets into his comfort zone after a few reg season games, he'll be good. Well, Thats what I think.


Last edited by Kriss E: 10-01-2008 at 12:53 PM.
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Old
10-01-2008, 12:45 PM
  #54
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Komisarek a fan of O'Byrne...

http://www.canoe.com/sports/nouvelle...01-071003.html

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Old
10-01-2008, 01:20 PM
  #55
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Am I the only one who thinks O'Byrne did pretty good in Roberval? It felt as if he was playing with little kids, stripping them of the puck as if they did not deserve the honor of carrying that little rubber disk. Might have been the low camera angle though, I'm really not used to seeing it from that angle.

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Old
10-01-2008, 01:48 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
You can get tired of it as much as you want, it doesn't change the reality, which is what's happening on the ice. He takes stupid penalties due to exactly what I've described, another fact! I don't have high expectations for O'Byrne at the moment. I'm simply stating what I see at this time in his career. Not once have I said that he has no potential, but if we want to win NOW, it will have to be without O'Byrne on our top two pairings. That's all.
What, inexperienced players are not allowed to make mistakes and learn from them anymore? Guys like OByrne (and Latendresse for the other bashers) are the future of the team and they are contributing now. They will make mistakes but you have to live with that, if not, they never get to progress and get where they should be.

At the end of the year after 82 games, OByrne wont be the defensman of the pre-season and you will be thankful that we stuck with him. Even if hes not playing great hockey right now, just his size, physicality, reach and mobility is enough to give the opposition fits. OByrne can and will help this team win now. Just because you dont get results right away doesnt mean that it cant happen down the road.

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10-01-2008, 02:05 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by jcpenny View Post
What, inexperienced players are not allowed to make mistakes and learn from them anymore? Guys like OByrne (and Latendresse for the other bashers) are the future of the team and they are contributing now. They will make mistakes but you have to live with that, if not, they never get to progress and get where they should be.

At the end of the year after 82 games, OByrne wont be the defensman of the pre-season and you will be thankful that we stuck with him. Even if hes not playing great hockey right now, just his size, physicality, reach and mobility is enough to give the opposition fits. OByrne can and will help this team win now. Just because you dont get results right away doesnt mean that it cant happen down the road.
Your first mistake is to confuse criticism with bashing. I am in no way bashing O'Byrne. I'm simply saying that he's not ready.

The second mistake you're making is thinking (or so it seems) that we're in a rebuilding mode. If we want to win now, O'Byrne, as good (or not) as he may be in the future, can not play on the top two pairings.

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10-01-2008, 02:35 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Your first mistake is to confuse criticism with bashing. I am in no way bashing O'Byrne. I'm simply saying that he's not ready.

The second mistake you're making is thinking (or so it seems) that we're in a rebuilding mode. If we want to win now, O'Byrne, as good (or not) as he may be in the future, can not play on the top two pairings.
First, OByrne is ready, he just needs experience and make better decisions and that comes with playing time. Like i said, his size, reach, mobility and physicality is just enough right now to help us and it can only get better from now. For now, theres no point of trading for a D and lose our young players, we have to give him a chance to be a player for us because of what he can bring. The pay off could be huge at the end of the year if it works out.

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10-01-2008, 02:50 PM
  #59
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Everybody forgets how bad Komisarek looked when he started with the Canadiens! It's the same reason that all the Chipchura haters are going to have see him for awhile too! They're both very young, with a lot of time to develop. Devfenceman take more time to grow into the NHL game. How come Latendresse and Lapierre can go weeks without doing anything and nobody says send them to Hamilton?

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10-01-2008, 02:54 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by BulldogFever View Post
Everybody forgets how bad Komisarek looked when he started with the Canadiens!
Allow me to use an analogy used by a member I truly respect here, mcphee, who was demonstrating in the Max Pac thread (and rightfully so) that times have changed now. In order for a player to make our line-up, he most be exceptional and contribute greatly. The times have changed now as we are going for a Stanley Cup, not re-building.

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10-01-2008, 02:54 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Your first mistake is to confuse criticism with bashing. I am in no way bashing O'Byrne. I'm simply saying that he's not ready.

The second mistake you're making is thinking (or so it seems) that we're in a rebuilding mode. If we want to win now, O'Byrne, as good (or not) as he may be in the future, can not play on the top two pairings.
I understand the idea behind your thoughts, I just think it's a bit towards over managing. I think you have to let things develop. You can't close every hole.

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10-01-2008, 05:52 PM
  #62
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If we could trade to get cap space I wouldn't mind throwing a line in the water in the way of Pavel Kubina. A solid right-hand D, a big guy who not only plays hard but is also skilled. Would be perfect to play with fellow Czech Roman Hamrlick. I also doubt he would cost that much.

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10-01-2008, 05:53 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by FenixTX View Post
Is it only me or this guy is often out of position, take some bad penalites?

Is there a chance this guy doesnt make the team right away this year and goes to Hamilton to get in confidence back?

I dont know what happen with him since last year but this preseason his plays has been more than average and he no longer deserve to be a top 6 defender with the habs right now.
he's had a bad pre season. If anything, he has regressed from his form of last year at this time, which is worrying. I was hoping that OB would be a bridge guy between the big 3 and bottom pair, but it looks like Gorges is that guy. Not to take anything away from gorges, but his size is a factor. If OB doesn't progress, this team will probably have to shop for D sooner rather than later in order to male a serious cup run.

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10-01-2008, 07:18 PM
  #64
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People shouldn't underestimate how difficult it is for a guy that's used to playing the right side to play defense on the other side. I know I have a lot of problems with it... Everything comes at you from a different angle and you have to pivot in the other direction that you're used to all the time. It greatly affect mobility and positioning.

Add the fact that he played with a rookie and probably tried to do too much out there during the last few games. I'm not worried about O'Byrne at all. He'll be fine playing the right side with a vet like Hamrlik.

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10-02-2008, 10:55 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
he's had a bad pre season. If anything, he has regressed from his form of last year at this time, which is worrying. I was hoping that OB would be a bridge guy between the big 3 and bottom pair, but it looks like Gorges is that guy. Not to take anything away from gorges, but his size is a factor. If OB doesn't progress, this team will probably have to shop for D sooner rather than later in order to male a serious cup run.
I totally disagree with that. OByrne looks way more confident this year than he was last year. Hes a little better with the puck, a bit more poised and way more confident to hit the opposition. OByrne is a project like Komisarek was and if they stick with him the pay off will be huge. He makes inexperienced mistakes, which is expected, but he'll get better with games.

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10-02-2008, 11:05 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by jcpenny View Post
I totally disagree with that. OByrne looks way more confident this year than he was last year. Hes a little better with the puck, a bit more poised and way more confident to hit the opposition. OByrne is a project like Komisarek was and if they stick with him the pay off will be huge. He makes inexperienced mistakes, which is expected, but he'll get better with games.
That would be my opinion as well, I think some are going to be suprised by O'B down the road. I don't expect him too much from him this year but developing prospects is a process and O'B imo is coming along nicely. Was a standout in the NCAA, was an AHL All Star last year and very solid in the AHL imo and while he had his ups and downs in the nhl last year and didn't really look much like the player he did in the AHL, I hope/suspect that in time he will show more and more.

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10-02-2008, 11:21 AM
  #67
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If O'Byrne doesn't win the Norris this year he is a bust.
I disagree. I say if he only wins the Norris he's a bust. He needs to win the Hart and Conn Smythe to be a legit NHL player this season.

Aside from that, your 4-6 D men only need to be average. You can't have All-Stars and $5M+ at every position. Rotating O'Byrne, Gorges, Cube in the 4-6 is fine. They are solid, if not spectacular players. They'll get ice time based on performance and therefore if they play poorly, they play less. Your 4-6 D men won't lose or win you many games. Let the young guys grow and mature and see how they turn out. You can only do that by letting them play and not sending them down everytime they make a mistake.

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10-02-2008, 11:32 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
People shouldn't underestimate how difficult it is for a guy that's used to playing the right side to play defense on the other side. I know I have a lot of problems with it... Everything comes at you from a different angle and you have to pivot in the other direction that you're used to all the time. It greatly affect mobility and positioning.

Add the fact that he played with a rookie and probably tried to do too much out there during the last few games. I'm not worried about O'Byrne at all. He'll be fine playing the right side with a vet like Hamrlik.
The main reason for his trouble was because he was playing on a side he's not use to playing.

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10-02-2008, 11:36 AM
  #69
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That would be my opinion as well, I think some are going to be suprised by O'B down the road. I don't expect him too much from him this year but developing prospects is a process and O'B imo is coming along nicely. Was a standout in the NCAA, was an AHL All Star last year and very solid in the AHL imo and while he had his ups and downs in the nhl last year and didn't really look much like the player he did in the AHL, I hope/suspect that in time he will show more and more.
OByrne has always been a project in every league he played. In every cases, he ended up being a force and a top player. Something i have noticed through his developpment is that in every level, he always had to go through a long learning process before panning out. Thats why i think that people are being just a tad impatient with him. He was a total force in the last calder cup run and thats the OByrne i'm waiting for.

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10-02-2008, 11:45 AM
  #70
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O'Byrne didn't have a BAD preseason. He had a subpar preseason based on our expectations. We seem to be in a desperate need of a great #4 and as stressed as we are, we need him to be at his peak RIGHT NOW!!!!

Could we let him develop, play on his right side, and see how it goes. The trade deadline doesn't end in a week.....While the solution might also be from the inside, we could also make a move if needed.

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10-02-2008, 11:48 AM
  #71
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The main reason for his trouble was because he was playing on a side he's not use to playing.
that's actually a good point. I remember how switching sides with robidas turned into an absolute disaster....

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10-02-2008, 04:42 PM
  #72
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The main reason for his trouble was because he was playing on a side he's not use to playing.
Isn't that pretty much exactly what I'm trying to say?

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10-02-2008, 05:07 PM
  #73
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Isn't that pretty much exactly what I'm trying to say?
Maybe. I've been at work all day so I didnt really read the thread just glanced a few post and added my grain of salt. I guess I just wanted to emphasize that part of your post I dont remember!

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Old
10-02-2008, 06:40 PM
  #74
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Check the ''le camp du CH se poursuivra a Tremblant'' video on RDS.ca.

Lavoie makes it clear O'Byrne's got a lock on a spot on the team based on what he's been told.

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Old
10-02-2008, 06:55 PM
  #75
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It seems people want a Cup so bad this year because there will be so many UFAs at the end of the season. I for one am not fixated on a Cup. I prefer the team develop long term competitiveness like Detroit. Going by the prospects at training camp this year the team is heading in the right direction in achieving that. When you build that in an organization your chances of competing/winning the Cup are much better.

O'Byrne is part of the young core of players and should turn out to be another Komisarek in a year or two. Hamrlik will help his game immensely as Biron did when O'Byrne played in Hamilton. MMWs he is going to be another monster defenceman.

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