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Old
10-01-2008, 07:35 AM
  #51
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If Peverly>Jones, AHL is where he belongs for now.

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10-01-2008, 08:11 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
I've been attending most of the practices thus far, but have missed all of the exhibition games...
From what I've seen from him from exhibition games, he hasn't appeared NHL ready.

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10-01-2008, 09:33 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Although some disagreed with me [cough]Handtrick[/cough], I immediately took the acquistion of Nick Tarnasky as writing on the wall for Michael Ryan and was further reassured honestly when I didn't see Ryan on the ice this morning in practice (Legwand also was missing...).

This move allows Ryan to try to catch on with another team before rosters are set next week. Personally, I thought he was in position to win a contract out of camp, but definitely saw the acquistion of Tarnasky as the end for Ryan.
I still think you need to put your crack pipe down.

I think the Tarnasky acquisition has nothing to do with Ryan not panning out as their games are 180 diametrically opposite.
Peverly and Jones and some degree Ward's level on the depth chart and chance of making the big team increased with Ryan's exit [eventhough Peverly was ahead of him to begin with].

It has much more to do with the teams lack of size and toughness and Gratton/Grant having almost zero chance of playing a normal shift on this team.

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10-01-2008, 11:09 AM
  #54
handtrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
I've been attending most of the practices thus far, but have missed all of the exhibition games...from my standpoint though, Peverley is far and away outperforming Jones at this point. Not even truly close to be honest.

Jones appears to have a bright future ahead, but he needs some seasoning in Milwaukee first before stepping onto the ice for the Preds during the regular season.
dude...if you haven't seen Jones in the exhibition games, you haven't seen Jones's game.
His game does not translate well into practice situations.

I'll bet you a brisket sandwich from the Suite Level that Jones in on our opening night roster.

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10-01-2008, 11:14 AM
  #55
Seth Lake
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HT,

I agree that Jones' game doesn't translate well into drills, but that is not where I'm judging him to be honest. What I'm seeing is that he is a step behind and a step slow in controlled scrimmage situations. He simply doesn't play in those situations with much confidence. He goes into the battle spots, but arrives late and doesn't get the job done consistently enough.

Hopefully I'll change my opinion when I take in my first exhibition game Thursday night...

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10-01-2008, 11:32 AM
  #56
handtrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
HT,

I agree that Jones' game doesn't translate well into drills, but that is not where I'm judging him to be honest. What I'm seeing is that he is a step behind and a step slow in controlled scrimmage situations. He simply doesn't play in those situations with much confidence. He goes into the battle spots, but arrives late and doesn't get the job done consistently enough.

Hopefully I'll change my opinion when I take in my first exhibition game Thursday night...
Seth,
You may be right on target about the seasoning in Milwaukee, especially in light of the Trotz dictum about near mandatory passage through Milwaukee....

But I would venture to say that Jones in his current state is better than Tootoo or Fiddler on the 2nd line on Opening Night.

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10-01-2008, 12:05 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handtrick View Post
But I would venture to say that Jones in his current state is better than Tootoo or Fiddler on the 2nd line on Opening Night.
Better than those two sure, but Peverley has excelled thus far when not playing with fourth liners and has the speed and offensive talent to actually make a top-six role work...temporarily.

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10-01-2008, 12:29 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Better than those two sure, but Peverley has excelled thus far when not playing with fourth liners and has the speed and offensive talent to actually make a top-six role work...temporarily.
Peverly is so weak on the puck, that unless that changes I don't think his "skill potential" can ever be realized.

If the 2nd line becomes Erat/Legwand/Peverly, they better score off transition, because once they set up in the offensive zone, they will skate and pass around the periphery ad naseum until one of them gets rubbed out from the puck on the boards, and that will usually be Peverly.

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10-01-2008, 12:33 PM
  #59
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Excelled.....Peverly

lol

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10-01-2008, 04:01 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handtrick View Post
I'll bet you a brisket sandwich from the Suite Level that Jones in on our opening night roster.
Would you like that sandwich tomorrow or when the actual season starts??? Pred303 is reporting over on NP.com that Poile told him our top two lines for opening night will be Dumont - Arnott - Hornqvist and Erat - Legwand - Jones...

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10-01-2008, 04:09 PM
  #61
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good long talk with poile today, trotz had begged out because of today's practice..

poile's thoughts paraphrased to the best of my recollections;

goalie situation;
...very confident in ellis heading into this year. thinks he is just "screwy enough" to not let the pressure get to him. thought maybe mason let the bad defense early bother him too much, then he got sick and never settled back in. still knocked on wood when he said he thought ellis would really step up big (because he thought the same about mason last year).
..publicly tells everyone "rinne is our goalie of the future, this guy is going to be a star".

defense;
...said this team will have to win more games with defense and in net.
...said that weber, suter and hamhuis are the three best defensemen under 25 on any team in the league.
...said weber is going to have a monster year, an allstar year.
...said these three guys are going to get much bigger minutes this year, more top player type minutes. thinking more along the 24-20-16 type minutes for the pairs versus years past with our 22-20-18 type we have normally gotten.
...said opening night defense would probably be weber-suter, hamhuis-devries, zanon-klein.
..admitted koistinen being hurt had somewhat blurred their vision of what pairings would actually wind up being on down the road.

offense;
..said the top line is going to be dumont-arnott-hornqvist. because they still like the the dumont-arnott chemistry, and really like how hornqvist and dumont are clicking. said hornqvist was fitting in better than rads with these two because he was a better skater and puckhandler. said hornqvist will be a 'stud'.
...said the second line was going to start out as erat-legwand-jones. really liked what jones brings to these guys with his 'net presence'. said jones is going to give these two guys much more room on the ice. said he thinks hopefully jones is that ugly hardnosed player we have been looking for

..surprisingly, said he was probably more sure of the top two lines right now than the bottom two exactly.
...this mainly because of the late addition of tarnasky. they got this guy to play, not compete for a spot obviously. poile thought he had untapped upside as a skater and point scorer. also loved his hitting and his toughness and the fact "he's still just a kid".
..said they got him to protect tootoo as much as anything. thought the guys we had were middleweights, while tarnasky is more of a heavyweight.
...said it confused them right now as to who would play on what line on the 3rd/4th units. made you think though that tarnasky would probably be lined with tootoo on the other wing as his "protection".
...said he exepcted much more out of tootoo this year, pointwise, and drawing penalty wise. and really thought he was going to need protection 'help'
..looks like the one it would affect the most would be philstrom to me (poile didn't say this, just my thought if he thinks tarnasky needs to be on a line with toots)

..poile said, he wasn't worried about our 3rd and 4th lines, because he thought we had "8 great 3rd/4th line type players", and trotz could pretty much put any of them out there and us have good bottom two lines. don't really disagree.



...must have used the words "underdog", "hard to play against", "overachievers" when talking about this bunch 5 times. (something i agree with as well)
...said that this is the fewest number of changes he has ever made as a gm from one year to the next in his entire career.

...said that he simply didn't have the budget to go out and get anyone right now. said we had limited ourselves when we had extended our "core" players, but felt this was the way to go. said he had a "little" flexibility and wanted to keep that in case we needed to make a move after the season started or if something jumped at us. (have no idea how much 'flexibility' he was talking about)

...said he thought we would make the playoffs.
...said the pp had to get better of course, but he thought weber was going to make all the difference in the world this year (and it could)

anyway, was pretty interesting stuff to me.

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10-01-2008, 05:59 PM
  #62
handtrick
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Great stuff 303 and greatly appreciated by all of us....

Couple other things that may jog your memory if he touched on them:
1] Ortmeyer's long term status.
2] Prospect[s] that particularly surprised or impressed him.
3] Who may be getting the 2nd 'A'?
4] Why is Sully really practicing with the team?......is he actually still hoping for his return but planning for him not to be there?

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10-01-2008, 06:08 PM
  #63
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I don't know what to say about our third and fourth lines. You would think with Tootoo and Tarnasky out there, you could put any of the three centers - Fiddler/Bonk/Nichol and it would work. My hunch is that when Tarnasky is ready, Smithson and Peverly will be on the bench. I can't see us benching Fiddler, and I think the coaching staff has a lot of faith in Radek Bonk.

With that in mind and a completely healthy lineup, I would probably say the lines look like this

Pihlstrom - Fiddler - Bonk (line 3)
Tarnasky - Nichol - Tootoo (line 4)

Line 3 would obvisouly be more scoring focused, while line 4 would be an energy line with a little bit of scoring pop due to the speed. I thought at the time, and it has now become clear by Poile's comments, that Tarnasky was acquired to put some size on our smaller/aggressive hitters. I like the idea, and I think it is about time we added some strength to our lower lines, especially when you consider how weak they have been at holding onto the puck at even strength last season.

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10-01-2008, 06:30 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Pred303 View Post
...said that he simply didn't have the budget to go out and get anyone right now. said we had limited ourselves when we had extended our "core" players, but felt this was the way to go. said he had a "little" flexibility and wanted to keep that in case we needed to make a move after the season started or if something jumped at us. (have no idea how much 'flexibility' he was talking about)

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10-01-2008, 06:31 PM
  #65
Seth Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
I don't know what to say about our third and fourth lines. You would think with Tootoo and Tarnasky out there, you could put any of the three centers - Fiddler/Bonk/Nichol and it would work. My hunch is that when Tarnasky is ready, Smithson and Peverly will be on the bench. I can't see us benching Fiddler, and I think the coaching staff has a lot of faith in Radek Bonk.

With that in mind and a completely healthy lineup, I would probably say the lines look like this

Pihlstrom - Fiddler - Bonk (line 3)
Tarnasky - Nichol - Tootoo (line 4)

Line 3 would obvisouly be more scoring focused, while line 4 would be an energy line with a little bit of scoring pop due to the speed. I thought at the time, and it has now become clear by Poile's comments, that Tarnasky was acquired to put some size on our smaller/aggressive hitters. I like the idea, and I think it is about time we added some strength to our lower lines, especially when you consider how weak they have been at holding onto the puck at even strength last season.
Smithson was just signed to an extentsion and was lauded for being one of the top penalty killers in the Western Conference. Don't think he is really on the outside looking in. Jerred has actually had an extra bounce in his step thus far and is taking the body at every opportunity.

Nichol is one of the top faceoff men in the league and an excellent penalty killer. He will be in the lineup.

Pihlstrom and Peverley are my two on the outside looking in...although I hate leaving them both out of the lineup.

Really, Bonk and Fiddler are the two clogging the lineup IMO...

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10-01-2008, 06:39 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
I don't know what to say about our third and fourth lines. You would think with Tootoo and Tarnasky out there, you could put any of the three centers - Fiddler/Bonk/Nichol and it would work. My hunch is that when Tarnasky is ready, Smithson and Peverly will be on the bench. I can't see us benching Fiddler, and I think the coaching staff has a lot of faith in Radek Bonk.

With that in mind and a completely healthy lineup, I would probably say the lines look like this

Pihlstrom - Fiddler - Bonk (line 3)
Tarnasky - Nichol - Tootoo (line 4)

Line 3 would obvisouly be more scoring focused, while line 4 would be an energy line with a little bit of scoring pop due to the speed. I thought at the time, and it has now become clear by Poile's comments, that Tarnasky was acquired to put some size on our smaller/aggressive hitters. I like the idea, and I think it is about time we added some strength to our lower lines, especially when you consider how weak they have been at holding onto the puck at even strength last season.
I'd think Tootoo would be on the 3rd line, he's stepping it up.

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10-01-2008, 07:01 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Dave is a Killer View Post
I agree. To me from the outside looking in this seems to be headed towards a similiar situation as 06-07 when we had been a good team but never a great team for a few years and leoipold said screw it I'm going for all the marables this year and spends more than he can afford. Don't get me wrong I'm not one of those naive fans who just thinks the owners should spend tons of money. I understand how the business works but until ownership commits more money than they are comfortable with and supplement our great young D and great role playing forwards we have this team will never be more than "hardworking" and "overachievers". Don't get me wrong that type of team is fun to watch but unless we actually make the playoffs (which will be tough this year) and get REALLY hot at the right time this team will never be a true threat. Just look at the past few years when teams have made it far into the playoffs. All the teams have been the most talented in the league for the most part. ( with the exception of the 05-06 oilers)


Mabye I am way off base here and without a doubt it is easy to say spend more millions when it isnt your money you are spending. I obviously appreciate everything the owners have done. IMO we will never be able to take the next step until owners open up their pocketbook a little. Of course we need to hit 14K paid to really have any right to ask them to spend more next year I guess. The rollercoaster never ends....

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10-01-2008, 07:42 PM
  #68
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As I said, I really have no idea what our third/fourth lines will look at. I put Smithson and Peverly as the two riding the bench simply because that is how it has worked in the past. I too wouldn't be surprised if Pihlstrom is sent down, although, I do think he has earned a spot on the roster. Additionally, do not read too much into my placement of third/fourth lines....with the way Trotz rolls his lines, the fourth line status is more of an indication of the energy role than anything else. I realize that last year the fourth line with hordichuk did not receive a lot of minutes, but it has become clear that a typical Trotz team spreads the minutes around.

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10-02-2008, 02:59 PM
  #69
Homer J. Leafs
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Hey Guys!
I need some help here. Im my fantasy team my goaltending absolutely sux. But I have Marian Hossa Petr Sykora and Brad Boyes + Setoguchi as Rws. I have this trade proposal Ellis for one of my Rws. What do you think? Whos gonna be your backup?

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10-02-2008, 03:17 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Homer J. Leafs View Post
Hey Guys!
I need some help here. Im my fantasy team my goaltending absolutely sux. But I have Marian Hossa Petr Sykora and Brad Boyes + Setoguchi as Rws. I have this trade proposal Ellis for one of my Rws. What do you think? Whos gonna be your backup?
who are your goaltenders ?

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10-02-2008, 03:30 PM
  #71
Seth Lake
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Originally Posted by Homer J. Leafs View Post
Hey Guys!
I need some help here. Im my fantasy team my goaltending absolutely sux. But I have Marian Hossa Petr Sykora and Brad Boyes + Setoguchi as Rws. I have this trade proposal Ellis for one of my Rws. What do you think? Whos gonna be your backup?
The backup for Ellis is Pekka Rinne (solid pickup IMO in a keeper league...)

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10-02-2008, 03:33 PM
  #72
Homer J. Leafs
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Originally Posted by Dave is a Killer View Post
who are your goaltenders ?
Can you believe Martin Gerber is my only starter?
And I have like 4 goalies Halak, Pavelec, Cujo...and Im thinkin about adding your very own Rinne.
I know My goaltending is absolutely horrible.
To top all this since Im a girl the guys Im playin with think Im gonna trade Boyes and Halak for Justin Williams and Auld


Last edited by Homer J. Leafs: 10-02-2008 at 03:49 PM. Reason: girl
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10-02-2008, 03:39 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Homer J. Leafs View Post
Can you believe Martin Gerber is my only starter?
And I have like 4 goalies Halak, Pavelec, Cujo...and Im thinkin about adding your very own Rinne.
I know My goaltending is absolutely horrible.
To top all this since Im a girls the guys Im playin with think Im gonna trade Boyes and Halak for Justin Williams and Auld
... I think you should pick up Rinne & trade for Ellis, maybe that's just me ... but goalies go into and come out of slumps

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10-02-2008, 03:49 PM
  #74
Homer J. Leafs
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Originally Posted by Dave is a Killer View Post
... I think you should pick up Rinne & trade for Ellis, maybe that's just me ... but goalies go into and come out of slumps
I picked up Rinne and I accepted the trade for Ellis (for Hossa. Dunno I just have a strange feelin about him this season and I love Boyes so no way Im trading him)

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10-02-2008, 03:55 PM
  #75
Enoch
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Originally Posted by Homer J. Leafs View Post
I picked up Rinne and I accepted the trade for Ellis (for Hossa. Dunno I just have a strange feelin about him this season and I love Boyes so no way Im trading him)
Hossa......for Ellis.......Marcel or Marian?



No offense, but I would veto that trade if it was in my league. Your getting taken to the cleaners unless there are 9 goalie stats to 3 offensive stats. Sykora for Ellis is in your favor. Boyes for Ellis is more fair, and you could make a very good argument that Boyes is more valuable (43 goals last year). Hossa should have been on the table for any of the top goaltenders outside of probably Brodeur in a non-keeper league, and in a keeper league, he is as valuable as any goaltender.

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