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Jose Theodore, a top 5 goalie in the league?

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06-28-2004, 02:54 PM
  #1
Malakhov
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Jose Theodore, a top 5 goalie in the league?

A lot of people here are arguing that Garon could of been better than Theodore and become the true #1 goalie for the Habs. I have an hard time believing it myself since I think Theodore is truly in the top 5 goalies of the league and is one of the elites. What do you think?

Here's his stats for the 2003-04 season:
67 Games Played 33 Wins 28 Losses 5 Ties 6 Shutouts 2.27 GAA .919 SV %

Here's a few comparisons (goalie had to play AT LEAST 50 games):

SV %
1. ROBERTO LUONGO .931 SV %
2. ANDREW RAYCROFT .926 SV %
3. DAVID AEBISCHER .924 SV %
4. EVGENI NABOKOV .921 SV %
5. JOSE THEODORE .919 SV %

Wins
1. MARTIN BRODEUR 38 Wins
2. MARTY TURCO 37 Wins
3. ED BELFOUR 34 Wins
4. TOMAS VOKOUN 34 Wins
5. DAN CLOUTIER/JOSE THEODORE 33 Wins

GAA (I'd take the defense into high consideration also)
1. MARTY TURCO 1.98 GAA
2. MARTIN BRODEUR 2.03 GAA
3. ANDREW RAYCROFT 2.05 GAA
4. DAVID AEBISCHER 2.09 GAA
5. ED BELFOUR 2.13 GAA
6. EVGENI NABOKOV 2.20 GAA
7. CHRIS OSGOOD 2.24 GAA
8. JOSE THEODORE 2.27 GAA
9. DAN CLOUTIER 2.27 GAA
10. PATRICK LALIME 2.29 GAA

Shutouts
1. MARTIN BRODEUR 11 Shutouts
2. ED BELFOUR 10 Shutouts
3. MARTY TURCO/EVGENI NABOKOV 9 Shutouts
4. ROBERTO LUONGO 7 Shutouts
5. JOSE THEODORE/KEVIN WEEKES 6 Shutouts

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06-28-2004, 03:06 PM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakhov
A lot of people here are arguing that Garon could of been better than Theodore and become the true #1 goalie for the Habs. I have an hard time believing it myself since I think Theodore is truly in the top 5 goalies of the league and is one of the elites. What do you think?

Here's his stats for the 2003-04 season:
67 Games Played 33 Wins 28 Losses 5 Ties 6 Shutouts 2.27 GAA .919 SV %

Here's a few comparisons (goalie had to play AT LEAST 50 games):

SV %
1. ROBERTO LUONGO .931 SV %
2. ANDREW RAYCROFT .926 SV %
3. DAVID AEBISCHER .924 SV %
4. EVGENI NABOKOV .921 SV %
5. JOSE THEODORE .919 SV %

Wins
1. MARTIN BRODEUR 38 Wins
2. MARTY TURCO 37 Wins
3. ED BELFOUR 34 Wins
4. TOMAS VOKOUN 34 Wins
5. DAN CLOUTIER/JOSE THEODORE 33 Wins

GAA (I'd take the defense into high consideration also)
1. MARTY TURCO 1.98 GAA
2. MARTIN BRODEUR 2.03 GAA
3. ANDREW RAYCROFT 2.05 GAA
4. DAVID AEBISCHER 2.09 GAA
5. ED BELFOUR 2.13 GAA
6. EVGENI NABOKOV 2.20 GAA
7. CHRIS OSGOOD 2.24 GAA
8. JOSE THEODORE 2.27 GAA
9. DAN CLOUTIER 2.27 GAA
10. PATRICK LALIME 2.29 GAA

Shutouts
1. MARTIN BRODEUR 11 Shutouts
2. ED BELFOUR 10 Shutouts
3. MARTY TURCO/EVGENI NABOKOV 9 Shutouts
4. ROBERTO LUONGO 7 Shutouts
5. JOSE THEODORE/KEVIN WEEKES 6 Shutouts
IMO, there is no doubt that Theodore is a top 5 goalie in the NHL, if the defense plays up to it's capabilities then there's no reason similar and even better numbers than last year, especially now that he IS the man between the pipes, there's absolutely no looking over his shoulder now....the only thing that worries me about Theo is his playoff performances, but he's still young and will no doubt improve, Theo is a top 5 goalie in this league and he's on the cusp of being a top 3 goalie...

As for the Garon issue, it hurts me he's gone, but he wasn't going to be a #1 here, there's way too much money and time that's been invested in Theo...The thing about Theo is when he's on his game, IMO there's not a better goalie in the league, sometimes he gets on these streaks for like 15-20 games straight, where his technique is on point and it seems like it's going to take a perfect shot to beat him...but there's also times when his technique is off, but he still manages to stop most shots because he's such a fighter in net, but then he'll get beat by these easy goals for a stretch...at least, that's the impression he's given me

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06-28-2004, 03:11 PM
  #3
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Theodore is a great goalie no doubt..and top 5 isn't out of the questions..even top 3 isn't out of the question.

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06-28-2004, 03:34 PM
  #4
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to tell you the truth, after the 2002-2003 season, i was almost sure that Theo was done and that the salary given to him was the main reason for his sucking. But i remained optimistic for 2003-2004. The reason i remained optimistic was because i myself, along with plenty of other people including Jose, knew that Theo had a very busy offseason the season before 2002-2003 since he had just won the hart and vezina he was in high demand for interviews and commercials and everything.

Theo said it himself to the press that he knew he didn't have a good season and he explained that he was stretched thin during the summer and didn't really get any time off for himself to wind down from the previous season.

so during the 2002-2003 season, he sucked mainly because he couldn't get in the rythm of things. So once 2002-2003 passed he vowed to come back stronger last year which he did IMO.

He started training for last season at the end of the summer.(late july) which IMO was good as well because this way, he had time off for himself but also kept himself in shape. He realized that slacking off in the offseason is a big mistake. He realized that most players gain ground on others during the offseason when everyone else is off goofing off.

Once i heard in the summer of 2003 that theo had already began training i was like "here it comes guys, Theo will have a solid season next year no matter how the team in front of him plays" and thats exactly what happened. He DID have a solid season and the stats prove it.

The only thnig i'm concerned about is his playoff performances. Theo had a slow start in both the carolina, and boston series in 2001-2002. In the boston series, he finished off with a couple of strong performances and he crumbled just like the team in front of him vs carolina in teh second half of the series vs them.

Lets fast forward to this years playoffs, Theo once again had a slow start vs teh Bruins. Serously though, any shot the bruins took he looked nervous stopping them. In the long run, Theo had but only a couple of solid performances vs the bruins this year and they were games 6 and 7. When we really needed it , he stepped up.

I think he did well vs tampa considering how the team was unable to cope with tampas speed and their "always attack" strategies.

Having said ALL of this, cause this is becomnig a little long winded, i think that Theo is a definit top 10 goalie but his playoff performances bring his value down quite a lot. i think though, that once the Habs become regulars in grabbing a playoff spot that Theo will get better and will learn the curve in nets when it comes to the playoffs. the reason why i think he'll get better is simple. games 5-6-7 when we really needed him to be there and on top of his game he was.

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06-28-2004, 03:39 PM
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IMO yes. He had very good stats last year on a streaky team.

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06-28-2004, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EaGLE1
IMO yes. He had very good stats last year on a streaky team.
No, not until he becomes more consistent. I think he will be one day though, not to far away!

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06-28-2004, 04:31 PM
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Guy Caballero
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Top 5, yes.
Top 3, maybe.

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06-28-2004, 05:07 PM
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I don't mind the stats. Stats for a goalie is really biaised. Theodore is the 3rd best goaltender in the league in my mind, and he'll prove it next year.

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06-28-2004, 06:26 PM
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Top 10 yes, Top 5 doutbful, Top 3 no way

To those putting Theodore at top 3, your saying that if you had the chance to get any goalie in the NHL, you would pick Theo over just about every goalie in the league?

Broduer? Turco? Nabakov Luongo Belfour Kipper

I think if Theo can show more consistency and cut down on the soft goals, he coud be top 3, but I don't think he's top 5. He's had too many 4 goal games for my liking, and his playoff performances leave me shaking my head.

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06-28-2004, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal
Top 10 yes, Top 5 doutbful, Top 3 no way

To those putting Theodore at top 3, your saying that if you had the chance to get any goalie in the NHL, you would pick Theo over just about every goalie in the league?

Broduer? Turco? Nabakov Luongo Belfour Kipper

I think if Theo can show more consistency and cut down on the soft goals, he coud be top 3, but I don't think he's top 5. He's had too many 4 goal games for my liking, and his playoff performances leave me shaking my head.
While I agree he's not a top 3 I have no doubt he's a top 5. In the names you have given us there's a few I wouldn't pick above Theodore ie:
Kipper (Only had 1 great season/playoffs, he's still unproven)
And there is no way I'd pick Belfour ahead of Theodore.

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06-28-2004, 06:37 PM
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Here's some habs maths :

A top 5-10 goalie + a young team on the rise = things looking up.

I'm confident Theodore is good enough to bring us to the promised land if we can also ice a top 5-10 team.

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06-28-2004, 07:35 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH²
Here's some habs maths :

A top 5-10 goalie + a young team on the rise = things looking up.

I'm confident Theodore is good enough to bring us to the promised land if we can also ice a top 5-10 team.
At the end of last year, we were a 10-15 team. Now we have Bonk...If we can sign Kovalev and some of our prospect crack the lineup + a good year for Theo, i see us in the 5-10 bracket!!!

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06-28-2004, 07:38 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH²
Here's some habs maths :

A top 5-10 goalie + a young team on the rise = things looking up.

I'm confident Theodore is good enough to bring us to the promised land if we can also ice a top 5-10 team.
I like that formula.

The Habs finished with 93 points, way more then anyone could have predicted. And I think that Theo was a big part of that. Also with this trade, I really think that it shows the amount of confidence Gainey has in Theo. Because it seemed during the season there was always talk of Garon taking the #1 job from Theo. Some people will say this can push him harder but it can also act as a distraction, almost having Theo looking over his shoulder.

When Theo is at top flight, there isn't many goalies better. As he showed during his MVP season. He just needs a work a bit on his consistency and then he will money all the time.

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06-28-2004, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komisarek8
Theodore is a great goalie no doubt..and top 5 isn't out of the questions..even top 3 isn't out of the question.
I agree.

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06-28-2004, 10:26 PM
  #15
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No doubt Theo is a top 5 goalie. However, IMO Garon has the POTENTIAL to also be a top 5 starter. BG knew this too, and got a hell of a lot more for a backup than we've seen anyone get in awhile. I just really like his size over Theo's. That's why I didn't want to give him up for nothing. And I don't think we did. I like the trade.

pEAce

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06-28-2004, 10:31 PM
  #16
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I think top 5 is fair, top 3 if he would have been better the year after his mvp season, so i'd say top 3 is a bit fo stretch right now, but he's more than capable of it and if he plays like he can consistently for the next 2 to 3 seasons he's top 3 easy.

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