HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Notices

PRE-SEASON--Toronto Maple Leafs @ St. Louis Blues -- 8:30pm EST, Oct. 1/08

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-03-2008, 12:41 PM
  #576
LTL
Registered User
 
LTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: D.T
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,288
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I don't think you can use the Wings to describe Schenn.

Wings, mmm hot chicken wings and beer.

Komisarek or the underrated Regehr would be more appropriate for Schenn.
Or a Scott Stevens in his later years (without the offence).

LTL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2008, 12:43 PM
  #577
Bills09
Registered User
 
Bills09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pickering, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,649
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
you're not listening.

Have you seen Schenn even once skate the puck out of his own zone? Have you seen him rush the puck in any way whatsoever? Have you seen him even try to beat an opposing player one on one yet? Have you seen him make any type of creative play in the offensive zone yet?

no. and it's not something he showed in junior, either.

There's an entire dimension of the game which he has not demonstrated the tools for (skatingwise or puckskillswise), a dimension that is integral to being a franchise type player.


That being said, Schenn has looked great, is a very good prospect, and is definitely NHL ready.
actually during this training camp shenn has skated the puck out of his own zone and didnt do a bad job. Hes a shutdown defender, with elite skating ability. Having a shutdown defender is not a bad thing.

Bills09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2008, 12:44 PM
  #578
LTL
Registered User
 
LTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: D.T
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,288
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bills09 View Post
actually during this training camp shenn has skated the puck out of his own zone and didnt do a bad job. Hes a shutdown defender, with elite skating ability. Having a shutdown defender is not a bad thing.
Also had we chosen Schenn over the other three D at the draft then the argument might have a leg to stand on. Unfortunately that's not the case.

LTL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2008, 12:47 PM
  #579
EazyB97
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 27,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTL View Post
Also had we chosen Schenn over the other three D at the draft then the argument might have a leg to stand on. Unfortunately that's not the case.
The argument that they don't have the same upside as Schenn? Or that they don't skate the puck out?

EazyB97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2008, 12:49 PM
  #580
draeko17
Registered User
 
draeko17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,086
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
The argument that they don't have the same upside as Schenn? Or that they don't skate the puck out?
Maybe that we have enough offensive defenseman and needed a defensive defenseman?

draeko17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2008, 12:58 PM
  #581
Poignant Discussion
I tell it like it is
 
Poignant Discussion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Gatineau, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,757
vCash: 1400
Send a message via MSN to Poignant Discussion Send a message via Yahoo to Poignant Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTL View Post
Or a Scott Stevens in his later years (without the offence).
That's who he reminds me of exactly. A young Scott Stevens who developed an offensive game as a 20 year old in the NHL.

The hardest thing for an 18 year old to do is make the NHL as a defensive defensman, not only do you have to have the size, but the poise and the confidence. Anyone that says opposite doesn't have a clue how it works. Schenn will be a 30-40 point monster on the blue line and will be the captain on this team by the time he is 22 years old. He was not only the best pick at 5, but the best pick we have had since Wendel Clark.

And to you Filatov fanboys, I think you are going to be very disappointed. I am about 5 foot 9 and he was shorter than I am and weighed about 25 lbs less. I was standing with a couple of the Oiler's scouts and he was about 10 feet away.

The Oiler Swedish scout said something along the lines of "unless he grows and puts on 30 lbs, he is going to get killed in the NHL."

Then again I guess some of you don't care about the steak as long as you can have the sizzle. This is one of the reasons this team has been garbage for so long, how many WINNERS has this team drafted in the last 20 years?

Schenn IS a winner and Fletcher did us proud by getting him

Poignant Discussion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2008, 01:02 PM
  #582
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 55,527
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poignant Discussion View Post
That's who he reminds me of exactly. A young Scott Stevens who developed an offensive game as a 20 year old in the NHL.

The hardest thing for an 18 year old to do is make the NHL as a defensive defensman, not only do you have to have the size, but the poise and the confidence. Anyone that says opposite doesn't have a clue how it works. Schenn will be a 30-40 point monster on the blue line and will be the captain on this team by the time he is 22 years old. He was not only the best pick at 5, but the best pick we have had since Wendel Clark.

Schenn IS a winner and Fletcher did us proud by getting him

I think the best thing Schenn does is not too much.

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA3LN_8hjM8.

Vaive and Ludzik on collapse, and Phaneuf.
ULF_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2008, 01:04 PM
  #583
EazyB97
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 27,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poignant Discussion View Post
That's who he reminds me of exactly. A young Scott Stevens who developed an offensive game as a 20 year old in the NHL.

The hardest thing for an 18 year old to do is make the NHL as a defensive defensman, not only do you have to have the size, but the poise and the confidence. Anyone that says opposite doesn't have a clue how it works. Schenn will be a 30-40 point monster on the blue line and will be the captain on this team by the time he is 22 years old. He was not only the best pick at 5, but the best pick we have had since Wendel Clark.

And to you Filatov fanboys, I think you are going to be very disappointed. I am about 5 foot 9 and he was shorter than I am and weighed about 25 lbs less. I was standing with a couple of the Oiler's scouts and he was about 10 feet away.

The Oiler Swedish scout said something along the lines of "unless he grows and puts on 30 lbs, he is going to get killed in the NHL."

Then again I guess some of you don't care about the steak as long as you can have the sizzle. This is one of the reasons this team has been garbage for so long, how many WINNERS has this team drafted in the last 20 years?

Schenn IS a winner and Fletcher did us proud by getting him
Kane had the same issues as Filatov. He seemed to do okay last year. Stevens was a 40 point D-man in his draft year, while Schenn was mid to high 20s. In Steven's second NHL year he was a 45 point D-man (and that's coming into the league after his draft year). It's a tough road if that's what you want from him.

EazyB97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2008, 01:07 PM
  #584
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 55,527
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
Kane had the same issues as Filatov. He seemed to do okay last year. Stevens was a 40 point D-man in his draft year, while Schenn was mid to high 20s. In Steven's second NHL year he was a 45 point D-man (and that's coming into the league after his draft year). It's a tough road if that's what you want from him.
My expectations for a player that cost 1st. (7th. overall), 2nd., 3rd. round picks are extremely high.

Unless he is a franchise defender (step down from Crosby tier), they overpaid to get him.

ULF_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2008, 01:09 PM
  #585
NoamHemsky
Registered User
 
NoamHemsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,895
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
My expectations for a player that cost 1st. (7th. overall), 2nd., 3rd. round picks are extremely high.

Unless he is a franchise defender (step down from Crosby tier), they overpaid to get him.
and so far, are you disappointed?

NoamHemsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2008, 01:18 PM
  #586
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 55,527
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cob View Post
and so far, are you disappointed?
Nope.

Maguire said he was the most NHL ready defender.

If he's displaying the tip of the iceberg, great.

ULF_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2008, 01:26 PM
  #587
Poignant Discussion
I tell it like it is
 
Poignant Discussion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Gatineau, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,757
vCash: 1400
Send a message via MSN to Poignant Discussion Send a message via Yahoo to Poignant Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
Kane had the same issues as Filatov. He seemed to do okay last year. Stevens was a 40 point D-man in his draft year, while Schenn was mid to high 20s. In Steven's second NHL year he was a 45 point D-man (and that's coming into the league after his draft year). It's a tough road if that's what you want from him.
Come on Eazy, you know I respect you and all but that's a horrible argument as far as Stevens goes. In Steven's second season the NHL was averaging 315 goals per team, now you might see one team score 290 goals and it was the same darned thing in juniors at that time (plus he was setting up the number 1 prospect at the time too in Brian Bellows). It's a different game

Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
My expectations for a player that cost 1st. (7th. overall), 2nd., 3rd. round picks are extremely high.

Unless he is a franchise defender (step down from Crosby tier), they overpaid to get him.
What are your expectations for the 7th overall, Chad Kilgar and Hal Gill? Cause that's what he basically cost us

Poignant Discussion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2008, 01:33 PM
  #588
EazyB97
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 27,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poignant Discussion View Post
Come on Eazy, you know I respect you and all but that's a horrible argument as far as Stevens goes. In Steven's second season the NHL was averaging 315 goals per team, now you might see one team score 290 goals and it was the same darned thing in juniors at that time (plus he was setting up the number 1 prospect at the time too in Brian Bellows). It's a different game
Not really. Stevens had 1 junior year, so it's tough to backlog it. He had a different supporting cast, but he was still a strong offensive d-man coming into this league and showed it very early on. To compare him to Stevens is unfair. You claimed he developed an offensive game in the NHL, which isn't really true. He was over a PPG in Junior B and then had good offensive numbers in the OHL as a draft eligible prospect. By the end of his second year in the NHL, with no other pro training or going back to junior, he was again a high scoring d-man. It's alot to put on Schenn. Stevens was a very solid offensive D-man for a large chunk of his career. It's something he had coming into the league.

EazyB97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2008, 02:53 PM
  #589
zeke
#TeamReimer
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 27,975
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poignant Discussion View Post

Then again I guess some of you don't care about the steak as long as you can have the sizzle. This is one of the reasons this team has been garbage for so long, how many WINNERS has this team drafted in the last 20 years?
I'd say the opposite - we've always had plenty of Steak in Toronto......we've just had a complete lack of Sizzle.

We've never drafted and developed the stars that the other teams have had.

That's always been our problem.

zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2008, 02:56 PM
  #590
NoamHemsky
Registered User
 
NoamHemsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,895
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Nope.

Maguire said he was the most NHL ready defender.

If he's displaying the tip of the iceberg, great.
Good to hear.

He's the most promising youngster I have seen the Leafs produce in some time.

NoamHemsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2008, 02:58 PM
  #591
zeke
#TeamReimer
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 27,975
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poignant Discussion View Post
That's who he reminds me of exactly. A young Scott Stevens who developed an offensive game as a 20 year old in the NHL.
.
Agreed - that's his best possible upside. A guy like Scott Stevens.

If everything works out perfectly, that's who we get.

If everything works out perfectly.

If everything just works out "well", instead of perfectly, we've got Chris Phillips II. Still nice to have, but not exactly what you want from a top-5 pick, IMO.

zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2008, 03:03 PM
  #592
Volcanologist
Spark up a Dubas
 
Volcanologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kessel Apocalypse
Country: Germany
Posts: 20,353
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Agreed - that's his best possible upside. A guy like Scott Stevens.

If everything works out perfectly, that's who we get.

If everything works out perfectly.

If everything just works out "well", instead of perfectly, we've got Chris Phillips II. Still nice to have, but not exactly what you want from a top-5 pick, IMO.
?

It's a hell of a dropoff from Stevens to Phillips, not to mention they're not really similar defencemen.

Volcanologist is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2008, 03:06 PM
  #593
Metallian*
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 13,859
vCash: 500
yeah, that comparison sucked

if its stevens to foote, ill still be happy

heck, even if his low end is a Vishnevski, then ill still be happy; Vish > bust

Metallian* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2008, 03:07 PM
  #594
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Agreed - that's his best possible upside. A guy like Scott Stevens.

If everything works out perfectly, that's who we get.

If everything works out perfectly.

If everything just works out "well", instead of perfectly, we've got Chris Phillips II. Still nice to have, but not exactly what you want from a top-5 pick, IMO.
While Schenn's accomplishments are somewhat overrated due to this being the preseason I can't see him struggling as much as Philips did to get where he is. Philips spent a lot of his early career at forward because he had trouble getting his defensive game to the NHL level.

mooseOAK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2008, 03:07 PM
  #595
NoamHemsky
Registered User
 
NoamHemsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,895
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Agreed - that's his best possible upside. A guy like Scott Stevens.

If everything works out perfectly, that's who we get.

If everything works out perfectly.

If everything just works out "well", instead of perfectly, we've got Chris Phillips II. Still nice to have, but not exactly what you want from a top-5 pick, IMO.
and to think Phillips went #! overall and then Sens still seem quite content.

What do they know,eh?

NoamHemsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2008, 03:19 PM
  #596
zeke
#TeamReimer
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 27,975
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
Kane had the same issues as Filatov. He seemed to do okay last year. Stevens was a 40 point D-man in his draft year, while Schenn was mid to high 20s. In Steven's second NHL year he was a 45 point D-man (and that's coming into the league after his draft year). It's a tough road if that's what you want from him.
Actually, taking into account the huge scoring difference in the two eras, Schenn's draft-year scoring is pretty comparable to Stevens'...these stats include playoff scoring

Schenn: 64gms, 9gls, 32pts (82gms, 12gls, 43pts)
Stevens: 83gms, 7gls, 53pts (82gms, 7gls, 52pts)

Stevens did this not only in a much higher scoring era, but on a pretty stacked team including a future hall of fame defense partner Al MacInnins, and future all-star Brian Bellows.

Here's how the top-3 forwards and other top-scoring defenseman in scoring on Stevens' team looked:

F B.Bellows: 62gms, 61gls, 126pts (82gms, 81gls, 167pts)
F J.Larmer: 64gms, 72gls, 130pts (82gms, 92gls, 167pts)
F G.Martin: 66gms, 36gls, 114pts (82gms, 45gls, 142pts)
D A.MacInnis: 74gms, 30gls, 90pts (82gms, 33gls, 100pts)

Here's how the top-3 forwards and other top-scoring defenseman in scoring on Schenn's team looked:

F C.Long: 79gms, 33gls, 112pts (82gms, 34gls, 116pts)
F J.Benn: 58gms, 36gls, 76pts (82gms, 51gls, 108pts)
F B.Leovold: 76gms, 33gls, 77pts (82gms, 36gls, 83pts)
D T.Barrie: 71gms, 10gls, 47pts (82gms, 12gls, 54pts)

It was just a completely different era in scoring.

In fact, Schenn's scoring in his draft year is probably MORE impressive than Stevens' was.

Of course, Schenn is a good 6 months older than Stevens was then, and had two full years of experience going into his draft year, while Stevens was a rookie, so that lessens what Schenn accomplished in comparison, a bit.

But, still, their draft year scoring is fairly comparable.....so the Stevens' comparison does still have legs at this point, and is a fairly realistic best-case scenario, IMO.

zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2008, 03:22 PM
  #597
zeke
#TeamReimer
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 27,975
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cob View Post
and to think Phillips went #! overall and then Sens still seem quite content.

What do they know,eh?
well, that did happen to be the worst draft in NHL history.

Here's the top-10 from that year:

1) C.Phillips
2) A.Zyuzin
3) J.P.Dumont
4) A.Volchkov
5) R.Jackman
6) B.Devereaux
7) E.Rasmussen
8) J.Aitken
9) R.Salei
10) L.Ward


I'm guessing the top-10 from Schenn's draft is going to look a wee bit more impressive than that one.

zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:40 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.