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Habs and Komi negotiating (per Pedneault on CKAC)

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Old
10-03-2008, 06:21 PM
  #51
HabsDood
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7y, 45M$

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10-03-2008, 06:28 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by HabsDood View Post
7y, 45M$
No way het gets almost a 6.5 mil cap hit per year hit from us. Maybe on the open market from a NY team but I can't see Gainey giving him that. That's way too much money to spend on Komi.

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10-03-2008, 06:30 PM
  #53
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I'll take a shot at 4 years 4.25 per

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10-03-2008, 06:35 PM
  #54
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5/27

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Old
10-03-2008, 06:36 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Scotianhab View Post
No way het gets almost a 6.5 mil cap hit per year hit from us. Maybe on the open market from a NY team but I can't see Gainey giving him that. That's way too much money to spend on Komi.
That's the type of money we'll pay him.. You have to pay the big "C" guy accordingly.. Think further then 12 points a year..

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10-03-2008, 06:41 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by HabsDood View Post
That's the type of money we'll pay him.. You have to pay the big "C" guy accordingly.. Think further then 12 points a year..
I don't think you can pay big $ for intangibles. We'll see I guess, but I think a case can be made that if any position is underpaid, it's defensive defenseman, see Chris Phillips.

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10-03-2008, 06:50 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by SpreeEndaz View Post
Counter-arguing by pointing out exceptions is such a sophist approach. Yes, there is many exceptions but in general, the salary gives you a good idea of the player's worth. Nevertheless, there's always factors that could influence that too as the UFA market pool for the upcoming summer of the signing and so on.
Funny, you pay attention to my examples but ignore the several factors I mention.

My examples were to point out team specific reasonings to why contract amount does not equal who is better than another player. It's never "Player A did X more than Player B, therefore Player A deserves Y more than Player B".

Scoring aside, Mike Komisarek is one of the most valuble players to this club. When you combine his blocked shots and hits, not a single team has a defender like Mike Komisarek, and more importantly, no-one has a defender like Mike Komisarek at age 25.

When it comes to blueliners who hit and block shots, Mike Komisarek is the best in the league and likely has another 10-15 years of his career left. The market will reflect that.

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10-03-2008, 06:53 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Scoring aside, Mike Komisarek is one of the most valuble players to this club. When you combine his blocked shots and hits, not a single team has a defender like Mike Komisarek, and more importantly, no-one has a defender like Mike Komisarek at age 25.

When it comes to blueliners who hit and block shots, Mike Komisarek is the best in the league and likely has another 10-15 years of his career left. The market will reflect that.
Right on dood

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10-03-2008, 06:57 PM
  #59
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Cap hit of 4.25 maybe 4.5M...just a hunch...

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10-03-2008, 07:01 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Funny, you pay attention to my examples but ignore the several factors I mention.

My examples were to point out team specific reasonings to why contract amount does not equal who is better than another player. It's never "Player A did X more than Player B, therefore Player A deserves Y more than Player B".

Scoring aside, Mike Komisarek is one of the most valuble players to this club. When you combine his blocked shots and hits, not a single team has a defender like Mike Komisarek, and more importantly, no-one has a defender like Mike Komisarek at age 25.

When it comes to blueliners who hit and block shots, Mike Komisarek is the best in the league and likely has another 10-15 years of his career left. The market will reflect that.
Well that's exactly why I was not agreeing with whoever said 4-4.5 M$/year in the first place and that he should be paid more, what's your point ?

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10-03-2008, 07:02 PM
  #61
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I'm glad I'm not Gainey anyway..

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10-03-2008, 07:05 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by SpreeEndaz View Post
Well that's exactly why I was not agreeing with whoever said 4-4.5 M$/year in the first place and that he should be paid more, what's your point ?
You tried to argue that someones claim of 4-4.5M makes Streit considered a "better player" than Komisarek. That's a ridiculous statement. If Komi took $1M a year, that doesn't mean he sucks, it just means he wants to take $1M a year. Finances have everything to do with how much a team feels a player is worth, not that one player being paid x by one team makes him better than a player being paid y on another.

That was my point.

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10-03-2008, 07:10 PM
  #63
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I might be saying something quite big here.....but since Pedneault has joined CKAC, I'm now switching back and forth from McGuire to him since Pedneault's show starts at 5:30 and McGuire's segment starts at 5:25......Pedneault is doing a great job since he began. He has interesting guests, he interviewd Julien Brisebois not so long ago (interview I missed 'cause I was listening to Team and just got the end of it...) and he just seem to at ease that it makes it an interesting show to follow.

So I did caught the end of his show when he announced it but didn't listen to the whole show 'cause....I was with McGuire the whole time....

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10-03-2008, 07:10 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
You tried to argue that someones claim of 4-4.5M makes Streit considered a "better player" than Komisarek. That's a ridiculous statement. If Komi took $1M a year, that doesn't mean he sucks, it just means he wants to take $1M a year. Finances have everything to do with how much a team feels a player is worth, not that one player being paid x by one team makes him better than a player being paid y on another.

That was my point.
Well, you said yourself Komi was one of the league leaders in blocked shots and hits and he is also one of the very good stay-at-home defensemen who adds a big physical presence to a team. How can he possibly be paid less on the UFA market than a guy who had a good offensive year but is a huge defensive liability ?

The market value for big name UFAs has inflated a lot. Yes, he could give a huge discount, that is a possible, but very unlikely. Remember when we thought we could keep Souray for about 4-4.5 M$ because he liked it here and all ? Well, tough luck, he signed for a whooping 6 M$ + (if I recall correctly) in Edmonton, when we thought he'd get about 5 M$ elsewhere.

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Old
10-03-2008, 07:11 PM
  #65
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As far as the guessing game, I'll go as far as 6 years, cap hit of 4.8M$ per year.

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10-03-2008, 07:14 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by SpreeEndaz View Post
The market value for big name UFAs has inflated a lot. Yes, he could give a huge discount, that is a possible, but very unlikely. Remember when we thought we could keep Souray for about 4-4.5 M$ because he liked it here and all ? Well, tough luck, he signed for a whooping 6 M$ + (if I recall correctly) in Edmonton, when we thought he'd get about 5 M$ elsewhere.
Again, signing a guy before he gets on the market, you usually get a much better contract. Hence why people were convinced Kostitsyn would ask for $5M, and we got him for $3.250M. Also, Souray got huge money in Edmonton because Edmonton couldn't attract anyone in the NHL to their team (same problem we used to have and why Samsonov, Smolinski and Hamrlik got above market contracts). Had Edmonton not blown their load, theres a good chance Souray would have signed for less.

If we do sign Komisarek before Free Agency, he'll receive a lot less than if we sign him after July. To be honest, with Gainey's negotiating tactics, $4.5M isn't a stretch. However, anyone arguing that nobody would offer Komi $5.5M and up is ignoring the volatility of the market.

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Old
10-03-2008, 07:17 PM
  #67
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My only concern with signing Komi long term is the durability issue, considering the style of game he plays...

That said he's a must keep.

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Old
10-03-2008, 07:19 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Funny, you pay attention to my examples but ignore the several factors I mention.

My examples were to point out team specific reasonings to why contract amount does not equal who is better than another player. It's never "Player A did X more than Player B, therefore Player A deserves Y more than Player B".

Scoring aside, Mike Komisarek is one of the most valuble players to this club. When you combine his blocked shots and hits, not a single team has a defender like Mike Komisarek, and more importantly, no-one has a defender like Mike Komisarek at age 25.

When it comes to blueliners who hit and block shots, Mike Komisarek is the best in the league and likely has another 10-15 years of his career left. The market will reflect that.
He's not the best in the division imo. Could change this year, but Volchenkov hits just as hard(better open ice), is as good if not better defensively and imo he's a better shot blocker. I'd say they're equal, both bringing something more than the other depending on the area. I like Komisarek better personally, but I watch him play over 70 times a year and have seen him grow since he was drafted.

I also don't think either are worth over 5M, not a Komisarek who I see as still very much reliant on his partner.


Last edited by Little Nilan: 10-03-2008 at 07:25 PM.
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Old
10-03-2008, 07:22 PM
  #69
SpreeEndaz
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Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Again, signing a guy before he gets on the market, you usually get a much better contract. Hence why people were convinced Kostitsyn would ask for $5M, and we got him for $3.250M. Also, Souray got huge money in Edmonton because Edmonton couldn't attract anyone in the NHL to their team (same problem we used to have and why Samsonov, Smolinski and Hamrlik got above market contracts). Had Edmonton not blown their load, theres a good chance Souray would have signed for less.

If we do sign Komisarek before Free Agency, he'll receive a lot less than if we sign him after July. To be honest, with Gainey's negotiating tactics, $4.5M isn't a stretch. However, anyone arguing that nobody would offer Komi $5.5M and up is ignoring the volatility of the market.
Kostitsyn was not going to become UFA the summer after the contract signing. Hence, this is not a very viable example. I do agree we could get a slight rebate for signing him before hitting the free market, that's for sure. Nevertheless, I don't think Komisarek's agent is an idiot and he knows what kind of offers his client could lure in if he waits until summer.

Yes, we could hope that he'd sign a Iginla or Thornton type of rebate contract but he could also go for a Ovechkin or Lecavalier contract who got an extension for what they are worth. In this particular situation, I'd think that the normal rule would be a slight rebate extension and not the Brodeur/Iginla type of rebate, which would be an exceptional type of extension. Therefore, making a 4-4.5 M$ contract per year guess ridiculously low.

I thought summing up my position by only the Streit comparison would save a lot of debating but I guess an exhaustive answer would have been more appropriate in the first place.

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Old
10-03-2008, 07:22 PM
  #70
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10-03-2008, 07:23 PM
  #71
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I would guess on 6 years / 27 M$...

4-4-4-5-5-5

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10-03-2008, 07:24 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Kareem View Post
He's not the best in the division imo.
Only one player in the NHL broke 200 in both blocked shots (227: 1st in NHL) and hits (266: 2nd in NHL): Mike Komisarek.

You can argue if someone hits harder or blocks *better* shots, but when you don't favour one or the other and you do both at an alarming rate, its safe to say hes the best in the league at it.

EDIT: Yeah, Volchenkov is great at it too, safe number two, followed by Zanon, Smith and Ballard.

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Old
10-03-2008, 07:27 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by HabsDood View Post
7y, 45M$
wow, that would be nearly what Dion Phaneuf is earning (6,7M$ a year for Phaneuf / 6,43 M$ for Komi) on a longer term!

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10-03-2008, 07:27 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
The NHL won't give the Norris to a guy who scores under 50pts and I don't ever see Komi getting 50 pts.
Rob Langway says hello

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10-03-2008, 07:28 PM
  #75
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Rob Langway says hello
24 years ago.... my point stands.

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