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Grade Bob Gainey's 5 Year Plan

View Poll Results: Gainey's 5 Year GM Grade
A+ 41 12.50%
A 109 33.23%
A- 101 30.79%
B+ 53 16.16%
B 10 3.05%
B- 5 1.52%
C 3 0.91%
D 0 0%
F 1 0.30%
The Jury is Still Out 5 1.52%
Voters: 328. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-05-2008, 10:57 PM
  #76
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Gainey is also managing his team and recognizing the role of a Trevor Timmins when he allows him to go to the podium every year and announce the Habs draft picks. Most other teams in the league have their GM go up their to make the pick. In this way our Head of Amateur Scouting gets more public recognition, among the media and fans, than the head of Amateur Scouting for most teams in the league. I'm sure Timmins appreciates this, knows it is good for his career, and is thankful that Gainey allows him to do this.

Can the fans of other teams in the league name their top scout without looking it up.

Can you name our top scout under Reggie Houle, or Serge Savard.

You know what those top scouts made some very bad recommendations throughout the 90s but it is Serge Savard and Reggie Houle who take the blame for the Lindsay Vallis, David Wilkie, Terry Ryan, Matt Higgins, Eric Chouinard etc picks.


Like it or not this bad drafting was a #1 or #2 reason for the Habs going through a dark era pre-Gainey and was a major factor in the firing of these GMs. They had to take the blame and it made their jobs harder. Good drafting has made Gainey's job easier, but he still gets credit for it cause he is the one who ensured that a good scouting and development staff was in place.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 09-05-2008 at 11:03 PM.
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Old
09-05-2008, 11:05 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
You know what those top scouts made some very bad recommendations throughout the 90s but it is Serge Savard and Reggie Houle who take the blame for the Lindsay Vallis, David Wilkie, Terry Ryan, Matt Higgins, Eric Chouinard etc picks.
And you know what ? If theirs scouts were incompetents, Houle and S. Savard had to replace them. So, yes, they deserve to be blamed for the mediocre picks.

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09-05-2008, 11:14 PM
  #78
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And you know what ? If theirs scouts were incompetents, Houle and S. Savard had to replace them. So, yes, they deserve to be blamed for the mediocre picks.
Agreed, but it has to work both ways.

If the GM is blamed when his staff is incompetent, and he is the one who takes the downfall for it; he is also the one who should get the credit for having a good staff in place, and for making the right picks.

You can't put the good picks under the Scouts record and put the bad picks in the GM's record. Ultimately its all the GM and Gainey gets credit for the Kostitsyns, Price, Latendresse, etc....

Gainey also gets credit for making the decisions to resign Koivu when he became FA... for giving Andrei Markov his 5.75 million deal, for not trading Chris Higgins... quite Frankly every player currently habs property was a gainey decision at somepoint along the line. He gets credit for the entire roster. None of it belongs to Serge Savard, Reggie Houle, Andre Savard or anyone else anymore. There is not one contract left that is part of the previous regime.

Certain guys can be blamed after they are gone.... Ie Vesa Toskala is still a John Ferguson Junior guy at this point... but there will become a point where he is a Cliff Fletcher, or a new leafs GM's guy. Where that point is is hard to pin down... but with Gainey having control over the roster for 5 years (4 seasons, 5 years of contract acrued time) it is all Gainey as far as the habs are concerned.

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Old
09-06-2008, 12:20 PM
  #79
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A- for now. he still has this season. Savard should get some crdit also

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Old
09-06-2008, 02:51 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Gainey also gets credit for making the decisions to resign Koivu when he became FA... for giving Andrei Markov his 5.75 million deal, for not trading Chris Higgins... quite Frankly every player currently habs property was a gainey decision at somepoint along the line. He gets credit for the entire roster. None of it belongs to Serge Savard, Reggie Houle, Andre Savard or anyone else anymore. There is not one contract left that is part of the previous regime.

Certain guys can be blamed after they are gone.... Ie Vesa Toskala is still a John Ferguson Junior guy at this point... but there will become a point where he is a Cliff Fletcher, or a new leafs GM's guy. Where that point is is hard to pin down... but with Gainey having control over the roster for 5 years (4 seasons, 5 years of contract acrued time) it is all Gainey as far as the habs are concerned.
Well put. I think at this point, salary/contract management is a fair way for GM to lay claim to a certain player, especially as the market for (R/U)FAs becomes more volatile.

Especially when you consider the radical changes that may have taken place in a player's career path if they didn't get that spot on the fourth line, or those valuable power play minutes, or the chance to experience the post season. While I realize that a lot of that has to do with Carbonneau, it's partly Gainey's decision as well.

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Old
09-06-2008, 03:10 PM
  #81
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B+ for Gainey seems enough. I would give Timmins an A, though,


The losses of Ribeiro and Beauchemin for nothing is shading the few points that would have awarded him an A from me.

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09-06-2008, 04:30 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
B+ for Gainey seems enough. I would give Timmins an A, though,


The losses of Ribeiro and Beauchemin for nothing is shading the few points that would have awarded him an A from me.
Losing Ribeiro should be seen as a big +

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09-06-2008, 07:48 PM
  #83
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It would seem that Gainey has one of the easiest jobs in the NHL. 75% of the fans are rating him in the "A's", the grading in Montreal is not very harsh. Here are the Habs results from before Gainey joined until present.

Year Wins Playoffs

01/02 36 Lost in round 2
02/03 30 Out of playoffs
03/04 41 Lost in round 2
05/06 42 Lost in round 1
06/07 42 Out of playoffs
07/08 47 Lost in round 2

There is no prgression here at all with the exception of a handful of regular season wins. What exactly has he done? Why are you all so thrilled with his work? These expectations might be satisfactory in Columbus...but Montreal? Why is average performance being given such high marks?

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Old
09-06-2008, 07:52 PM
  #84
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I think this is the best team we've had under his reign so we'll see what this season brings.

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Old
09-06-2008, 08:06 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the doctor View Post
There is no prgression here at all with the exception of a handful of regular season wins. What exactly has he done? Why are you all so thrilled with his work? These expectations might be satisfactory in Columbus...but Montreal? Why is average performance being given such high marks?
Might not be Gainey's biggest fan in here but still.....look at the roster he had to work with when he arrived, and look what it looks like now. There are still results to obtain, I agree before giving him an A though. I really don't see the "A" marks when we just had our first great regular season and with not a lot of success in the playoffs. But give the guy a freakin break.....being able to go from Éric Landry and Johan Witehall to what we have now is pretty good...

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Old
09-06-2008, 08:15 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the doctor View Post
It would seem that Gainey has one of the easiest jobs in the NHL. 75% of the fans are rating him in the "A's", the grading in Montreal is not very harsh. Here are the Habs results from before Gainey joined until present.

Year Wins Playoffs

01/02 36 Lost in round 2
02/03 30 Out of playoffs
03/04 41 Lost in round 2
05/06 42 Lost in round 1
06/07 42 Out of playoffs
07/08 47 Lost in round 2

There is no prgression here at all with the exception of a handful of regular season wins. What exactly has he done? Why are you all so thrilled with his work? These expectations might be satisfactory in Columbus...but Montreal? Why is average performance being given such high marks?
You pretty much answered your own question by posting the wins per season. Here's the win % change:

02/03 - 37%
07/08 - 57%

More than a handful.

We've gone from a team with no hope, to a team that wins most of the time, and that can be expected to compete in the playoffs every year. We have no players signed to high risk, long term contracts. We have a deep core of players under the age of 27. The 2005 draft alone has produced enough to keep this team competitive for years, and the players from that draft have been developed properly.

Gainey has accomplished all this the right way. No shortcuts. We still have a full stock of draft picks coming up, and plenty of cap space.

If the 2nd round exit is your basis for criticism, I think you need to look beyond 4 games against a hot goalie.

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Old
09-06-2008, 09:55 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the doctor View Post
It would seem that Gainey has one of the easiest jobs in the NHL. 75% of the fans are rating him in the "A's", the grading in Montreal is not very harsh. Here are the Habs results from before Gainey joined until present.

Year Wins Playoffs

01/02 36 Lost in round 2
02/03 30 Out of playoffs
03/04 41 Lost in round 2
05/06 42 Lost in round 1
06/07 42 Out of playoffs
07/08 47 Lost in round 2

There is no prgression here at all with the exception of a handful of regular season wins. What exactly has he done? Why are you all so thrilled with his work? These expectations might be satisfactory in Columbus...but Montreal? Why is average performance being given such high marks?
You should take the time to read the previous 4 pages, as we've all answered those questions instead of getting 75% of the people to re-justify their reasons.

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09-07-2008, 04:30 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the doctor View Post
It would seem that Gainey has one of the easiest jobs in the NHL. 75% of the fans are rating him in the "A's", the grading in Montreal is not very harsh. Here are the Habs results from before Gainey joined until present.

Year Wins Playoffs

01/02 36 Lost in round 2
02/03 30 Out of playoffs
03/04 41 Lost in round 2
05/06 42 Lost in round 1
06/07 42 Out of playoffs
07/08 47 Lost in round 2

There is no prgression here at all with the exception of a handful of regular season wins. What exactly has he done? Why are you all so thrilled with his work? These expectations might be satisfactory in Columbus...but Montreal? Why is average performance being given such high marks?
Before Bob, there wasn't any 'average' performance to be proud of...if you don't appreciate the farm system now in place. there is no need to tell you why we're happy with Gainey.

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Old
09-07-2008, 07:40 AM
  #89
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I gave him a B+, I am very satisfied with his work. It could go as high as an A+ depending on if/when we win a cup under his regime, and what his signings look like next summer.

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Old
10-03-2008, 09:06 PM
  #90
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Rate Gainey's offseasons.

Gainey has now been our GM for the last few years, and has been at his post in the last 5 summers/offseasons. Now, to make a little change, I'm going to ask you to rate Gainey's offseasons based on :

- Drafting
- Trades
- UFAs
- Decisions taken on training camp (rookies...)

Summer 2004 :

Drafted : Chipchura, Grabovski, Streit
Acquired : Radek Bonk, Huet
Signed : None

Summer 2005 :

Drafted : Price, Latendresse, D'Agostini, S. Kostitsyn
Acquired : None
Signed : Kovalev (4 years, 4,5M/year), Dandenault (4 years, 1,75M/year)
Training camp : Assigned Latendresse to the QJMHL despite the kid having a great training camp. Signed Theodore to a long term deal.

Summer 2006 :
Drafted : Fischer, Maxwell, Carle, White, Valentenko
Acquired : Mike Johnson, Niinimaa
Signed : Sergei Samsonov
Training camp : Guillaume Latendresse makes the team before Andrei Kostitsyn. Ribeiro traded for Niinimaa.

Summer 2007 :
Drafted : Ryan McDonagh, Max Pacioretty, Subban, Fortier, Weber
Acquired : None
Signed : Roman Hamrlik, Patrice Brisebois, Tom Kostopoulos, Bryan Smolinski
Training camp : Decides that Price, Grabovski, and Chipchura all make the team before Lapierre and Halak.

Summer 2008 :
Drafted : Danny Kristo, Steve Quailer, Jason Missiaen, Maxim Trunev, Patrick Johnson
Acquired : Prospect D Greg Pateryn, Robert Lang, Alex Tanguay
Signed : Georges Laraque
Training camp : Likely sticks to the current roster, despite a great performance of many young guns.

Well here's my take :

Summer 2004 : B- (Good asset management, but poor drafting. His poorest IMO.
Summer 2005 : A- (Great draft, decent signings, Dandenault's was bad though.)
Summer 2006 : D+ (The signings and acquisitions were not what the team needed. The draft was not so good, but not so brutal neither. Ribeiro trade was this summer as well.)
Summer 2007 : A (GREAT draft, great signings)
Summer 2008 : A So far, hard to say, but I'd say that right now, it's another A (good draft, great assets management, he filled our needs well)

So guys, what is your take? I just created this thread so we can talk about all the work done by Gainey in the last few years. Feel free to let your comments.


Last edited by HamrlikTheStud*: 10-03-2008 at 09:22 PM.
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Old
10-03-2008, 09:12 PM
  #91
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Summer 04 we acquired Huet, how is that C?

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10-03-2008, 09:15 PM
  #92
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The Kovalev and Ribeiro trades deserve some mention.

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10-03-2008, 09:19 PM
  #93
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Looks like a vast majority really appreciate what Gainey has done!

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10-03-2008, 09:20 PM
  #94
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Sorry but what is the point of rating Gainey's seasons individually? It's all part of a bigger plan...

If I were to take all those seasons and AVG it out I would give him an A for sure!! (could be A+ or worst..) And this is a distinctive honnour by the way; take a team from the crud we had and turn it into a SC contender deserves recognition.

hn to: Andre Savard who I will always respect

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10-03-2008, 09:23 PM
  #95
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Sorry guys, forgot some moves. I updated the thread.

Watching 110% right now... Man do this Rinfret guy make me laugh...


Last edited by Beakermania*: 10-03-2008 at 10:04 PM.
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Old
10-03-2008, 09:33 PM
  #96
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Agree with those saying B+ or A-, until we actually win a cup or at least win the East, I can't justify an A or A+. The part I really like is that it's not just a veteran team loaded for this year, if 3-4 UFA's leave, there is a crop of kids on the cusp of the NHL to ensure continuity.

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Old
10-03-2008, 09:41 PM
  #97
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Hey,

This may be a stupid question, but where was David Fischer this training camp?

I did not hear his name at all. Was he injured?

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10-03-2008, 09:47 PM
  #98
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Hey,

This may be a stupid question, but where was David Fischer this training camp?

I did not hear his name at all. Was he injured?
Yeah.. he didn't participate in the camp, I would like to hear what others have to say about this as well.

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10-03-2008, 09:50 PM
  #99
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I don't know. Apparently he could not come because he had stuffs with his team and couldn't have come for more than 2 or 3 days. The more it goes on, the more I think that this pick will not turn out well. Fortunately we got two first rounders in 2007.

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10-03-2008, 09:52 PM
  #100
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I don't know. Apparently he could not come because he had stuffs with his team and couldn't have come for more than 2 or 3 days. The more it goes on, the more I think that this pick will not turn out well. Fortunately we got two first rounders in 2007.
I am extremely disapointed in this, if true. I had high expectations for Mr. Hockey.

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