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PROPOSAL: Koivu & Higgins for Gaborik ?

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Old
10-04-2008, 11:23 PM
  #51
King Kovalev
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
name the playoffs where he wasn't our best player. The only one i can think is debateable would be after his cancer, and even in those he would've been top 3.
Look at how good he has been in the Olympics for Finland too.

Saku is a big game player... the bigger the game, the better he performs.

Its no coincidence his best regular season games come against boston and toronto; our two biggest rivals..
03-04 05-06 (Altough I think he received a stick to the eye that year but still 2 assists in 3 games is nothing to brag about)

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Old
10-05-2008, 12:20 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
We don't have the chance to see Gaborik often, but he is one of the top-15 talent in this league. He doesn't seem to want to sign with the Wild.

Do you think Gainey should try to get him ?

Would Koivu - who will become UFA and might be intrested to play with his bro- and Higgins would be enough ?


Then we could have line like these:

Tanguay- Plekanec - Gaborik
A.Kost - Lang - Kovalev
Latendresse- Chipchura - S.Kost
Begin- Lapierre - Laraque
As talented as Gaborik is, I'd never trade those 2 guys for him, not if you are a cup contender, plus he will want 7-8 mil a year next summer and some crazy GM will pay it(see the offers for Sundin and Hossa).

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Old
10-05-2008, 12:44 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup View Post



it was against the stanley cup champions
I don't understand this part.


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Old
10-05-2008, 12:46 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by King Kovalev View Post
What the hell are you talking about? Carolina were the Stanley Cup champions so what? What does that have to do with who was the best player on the team?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rated R Superstar View Post
I don't understand this part.
i am just bringing up that taking the example of Koivu in the Carolina playoffs in 2005-2006 is just plainly off base, considering they were clearly the best Team of the NHL


Last edited by Beakermania*: 10-05-2008 at 02:28 AM.
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Old
10-05-2008, 12:52 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup View Post
i am just bringing up that taking the example of Koivu in the Carolina playoffs in 2005-2006 is just plainly off base, considering they were clearly the best Team of the NHL
Ok, so if I understand...you're saying that the reason why Saku Koivu wasnt our best player during the series vs carolina is because they were the best team in the league?

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10-05-2008, 12:56 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Rated R Superstar View Post
Ok, so if I understand...you're saying that the reason why Saku Koivu wasnt our best player during the series vs carolina is because they were the best team in the league?
well, we cannot say the opposite because he was badly hurt during the 4 games after

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Old
10-05-2008, 12:56 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Rated R Superstar View Post
Ok, so if I understand...you're saying that the reason why Saku Koivu wasnt our best player during the series vs carolina is because they were the best team in the league?
I think that he's saying that the reason why his points per game wasn't as high in that series is because we faced the eventual Stanley Cup champions and a hot Cam Ward.

Regardless, I don't know why there's even a debate on that as everyone around the team knows that Koivu is money during the playoffs.

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Old
10-05-2008, 01:30 AM
  #58
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As I keep saying, Minnesota and Montreal do not make good trade partners.

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Old
10-05-2008, 02:26 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Kovalev View Post
03-04 05-06 (Altough I think he received a stick to the eye that year but still 2 assists in 3 games is nothing to brag about)
With Saku: 2 wins; 0 losses
Without Saku: 0 wins; 4 losses....

enough said.

2 points in 2 full games... injured during the 2nd period of the third game.

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10-05-2008, 03:16 AM
  #60
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This will mess up bad with the team chemistry. And if Koivu is gone, who will center Gaborik, Robert Lang? And imagine if we lose Plekanec due to an injury, and without Koivu we will have to fight for a playoff spot, not battling for the cup.

If both are healthy, Koivu and Higgins, should score at least 45 goals. I rather have depth we these two players, which are the captain and assistant of this team btw, than one single 40 goals winger.


Last edited by Stradale: 10-05-2008 at 03:24 AM.
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Old
10-05-2008, 04:42 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
We don't have the chance to see Gaborik often, but he is one of the top-15 talent in this league. He doesn't seem to want to sign with the Wild.

Do you think Gainey should try to get him ?

Would Koivu - who will become UFA and might be intrested to play with his bro- and Higgins would be enough ?


Then we could have line like these:

Tanguay- Plekanec - Gaborik
A.Kost - Lang - Kovalev
Latendresse- Chipchura - S.Kost
Begin- Lapierre - Laraque
I'm not a big Koivu fan...but Gaborik has had attitude issues in past, may not resign also...play first 25 games of season see how players are working together...revisit a trade like this later in season. Maybe Tanguay, Tender and prospect(Fischer), for Gaborik. Don't know for sure at this point..conjecture

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Old
10-05-2008, 07:36 AM
  #62
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Can someone explain to me what's all these hard ons for Marian Gaborik? Has anyone of you ever actually seen him play?

The guy may be a highlight machine, but he is exactly the opposite of what the Habs need at the moment. We have enough offensive depth as it is, why would we trade key elements of the team for a guy that MIGHT crack the top 10 in scoring??? Bragging rights for the fans????

Gaborik is NOT a good HOCKEY PLAYER. He's a scorer and he knows nothing else. The guy cherry picks in the neutral zone, on PKs! Why is everyone worried about goal scoring for the habs seriously?? I would be more worried about sustained physical play and mental thoughness actually. Not considering that Marian is pretty much a given for a trip on the IR list...

Marian Gaborik for Koivu, wow.... ridiculous.


Last edited by Licou: 10-05-2008 at 07:46 AM.
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Old
10-05-2008, 08:51 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
Given Higgins status as RFA, this is not a good deal.

I would exchange Kovalev for Gaborik for the game they play but:
  • artistry;
  • community involvment;
  • dedication;
are not at Kovalev level.
Also a Kovalev involved in the team is better than a rented Gaborik.

At this point, I would NOT take Kovalev over Gaborik. It is not only points.

Because of the attention he gets, Kovalev ends up helping his linemates perform better and progress. Gaborik on the other side is a taker not a giver. Mariam has an extraordinary talent but Plekanec would have fewer points with him.

This is my impression but I would need analysis to prove me wrong on right and I won't so it... Takes too much time...

Koivu and Higgins for Gaborik: no.
Higgins and a prospect (good one but not top-3): OK.

I doubt that Higgins and a prospect would be enough for the Wild.

It would have to be Kovalev and Higgins.

And yeah,mentioning Koivu for a trade target-

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Old
10-05-2008, 09:35 AM
  #64
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It would be awesome to get Gaborik on the team, but trying to take it from a purely talent-oriented point of view, it would not help the team. Koivu's production has dropped, but he's still a talented center who can fill in excellently on the second line. If he leaves, Lapierre would get promoted, who in no way is capable of replacing Koivu. We then have the situation where, once again, we have offensive players like Sergei Kostitsyn and Latendresse centered by a non-offensive forward in Lapierre (well, he's offensive, he's just not very good at it). Same problem as last year.

Having Gaborik under different circumstances would be great; right wing depth of Kovalev abd Gaborik off the two lines is nothing to complain about. But given it would take substantially more to get him (I doubt they're looking for essentially Higgins, since Koivu could walk and they're stuck in a similar situation), I don't think it's possible.

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Old
10-05-2008, 09:50 AM
  #65
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The only thing Gaborik gives us, if healthy, is goals. We finished with the best offense in the league, and added Tanguay in the post-season. Koivu doesn't give us as many goals, but he gives us the leadership and playoff experience, which are priceless. And Higgins is easily a 30-goals scorer, works hard, plays good defensively and able to play on the PK.

Talent-wise Gaborik > Koivu + Higgins.

The job Higgins + Koivu are doing on the team > The job Gaborik would be doing on the team.

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Old
10-05-2008, 09:57 AM
  #66
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At the end of the season, for Gabby's rights? Makes sense.

But you don't get rid of your captain (your media is ****ing retarded for saying he's anything but the heart and soul of the team), your future captain, your best two 2-way players, for an oft-injured 1 dimensional scorer. You DON'T NEED ANY MORE SCORERS. A HUGE CHUNK OF THE LEAGUE WOULD KILL FOR YOUR THIRD LINE. DON'T YOU GET THIS?

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Old
10-05-2008, 11:13 AM
  #67
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Not sure how reputable Spector's Hockey is, but they reference the following:

Quote:
EDMONTON JOURNAL: Jim Matheson reports on some trade possibilities for the Minnesota Wild if forced to deal Marian Gaborik, who'll be a UFA next summer. One suggestion was to peddle him to the Pittsburgh Penguins for Evgeni Malkin as the Pens are "very weak on the wing". Risebrough is friends with NY Rangers GM Glen Sather but the latter would have to move Scott Gomez to free up the cap space plus Risebrough would likely want promising blueliner Marc Staal as part of the return. "If Risebrough calls Montreal -- he played with GM Bob Gainey -- he would likely want centre Tomas Plekanec, a winger like Andrei Kostitsyn or Chris Higgins, and D-man Mike Komisarek", write Matheson.
http://spectorshockey.net/index.php?...cles&Itemid=55

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Old
10-05-2008, 12:25 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Kovalev View Post
Without those players Saku wouldnt even of had the chance to play in the playoffs...
Amen ! Koivu was supposed to be our first center last season , but Plekanec took the things in hand . We all know that the Habs last season , were the team of the first line + the PP . Koivu just had 27 points at ES . That says it all

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
name the playoffs where he wasn't our best player. The only one i can think is debateable would be after his cancer, and even in those he would've been top 3.

Look at how good he has been in the Olympics for Finland too.

Saku is a big game player... the bigger the game, the better he performs.

Its no coincidence his best regular season games come against boston and toronto; our two biggest rivals.



Noone ever said that one man can take a team into the playoffs... and one man cannot win a Stanley cup.

The point remains.... in the biggest games our best player was Saku Koivu.
I agree with you that Koivu is a big game performer . The problem i have with him , is that he isn't able to keep the rythm for more than 8-10 games . That's why he looked good during the Olympic games , world tournements and playoffs .

The year of his cancer , he was on the adrenaline and played well . Last season , he got a rest of 3 weeks so he was full of energy . So yeah , Koivu is good in the playoffs and gets a very good points sheet . But passed 2 rounds , i don't think that he would be able to keep his production that high .

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Kovalev View Post
03-04 05-06 (Altough I think he received a stick to the eye that year but still 2 assists in 3 games is nothing to brag about)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
With Saku: 2 wins; 0 losses
Without Saku: 0 wins; 4 losses....

enough said.

2 points in 2 full games... injured during the 2nd period of the third game.
Saku wasn't good at all in that serie . I remember a thread where we were questioning his health condition , because he was invisible .

We didn't lost that serie because of Koivu , but because of Ward who was unbeatable .

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Old
10-05-2008, 12:31 PM
  #69
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What a terrible trade.

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Old
10-05-2008, 12:33 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redmachine54 View Post
Not sure how reputable Spector's Hockey is, but they reference the following:



http://spectorshockey.net/index.php?...cles&Itemid=55

If thats the price.... thats a BIG no.

Pleks is basically untouchable.... who is our offensive centre down the road if he is gone... and you want to add one of Higgins/Andrei and Komisarek to that.

Crazyness.... that'd be a big rip off for a UFA to be.

I think Minny needs to look more at what the package atlanta got for Hossa.... they aren't getting a package like that from Montreal... and they aren't getting Malkin from Pittsburgh.

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10-05-2008, 12:36 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 100th View Post


Saku wasn't good at all in that serie . I remember a thread where we were questioning his health condition , because he was invisible .

We didn't lost that serie because of Koivu , but because of Ward who was unbeatable .
Definitely disagree 100%. Having Koivu go down changed every single matchup. Koivu was put up against Brind'Amour and both pretty much nullified each others contribution leaving Kovalev and his line to play around with the Canes while Staal was being shut out by Plekanec. The moment Koivu went down, Carolina put Brind'Amour against the Kovalev line which was a complete game changer. It rendered Kovalev/Ribeiro inneffective while Brind'Amour didn't have anyone combative enough to stop him. It made him, Staal and the rest of the Carolina offense better.

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Old
10-05-2008, 12:38 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
1. Losing 2 vital players could vastly effect our team chemistry.
2. It's a lot to give up for an upcoming UFA player.
3. My Habs include Koivu, until he retires.

A big NO from me.
sums it up pretty well.

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Old
10-05-2008, 12:43 PM
  #73
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to minny
Higgins
Latendresse
Dandenault
1st rounder

to mtl
Gaborik
2nd round

to bost
Dandenault
burns

to minny
marc savard

Boston gets their defense, montreal gets sniper, minny gets some offense back

mtl brings up pacioretty

Andrei Plekanec Kovalev
Tanguay Koivu Gaborik
Pacioretty Lang Sergei
Lappiere Chipchura Laraque

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Old
10-05-2008, 12:52 PM
  #74
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Koivu's tough to trade. There's the NTC. He's an impending ufa. He doesn't necessarily set the pace on a line anymore, moreso seizes situations to contribute. He has more value to Mtl than he does on the market. Moving a C probaly isn't what they'd want to do, either side.

I could see Risebrough wanting Higgins and asking for another forward but ending up with a highly reated d prospect.

All of this is predicated on Gaborik wanting out which may not be the case at all.

I cannot see any way that Minny trades Burns. A young stud d man, coming into his own, easily a Cabnadian Olympic player in 2010, I don't see what sane GM moves a guy like that unless there's a $ reason.

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Old
10-05-2008, 12:59 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFly View Post
to minny
Higgins
Latendresse
Dandenault
1st rounder

to mtl
Gaborik
2nd round

to bost
Dandenault
burns

to minny
marc savard

Boston gets their defense, montreal gets sniper, minny gets some offense back

mtl brings up pacioretty

Andrei Plekanec Kovalev
Tanguay Koivu Gaborik
Pacioretty Lang Sergei
Lappiere Chipchura Laraque
No thanks....

Also Minny says no to moving Burns for Savard.

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