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Grabovski - A Loss?

View Poll Results: Is Grabovski really a "loss"?
Nah, he was useless 38 13.06%
Yeah, he was pretty good 29 9.97%
Too early to tell 80 27.49%
Mikhail who? 17 5.84%
Good Trade... we ended up with Lang and Pateryn 127 43.64%
Voters: 291. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-06-2008, 09:27 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Antropovsky View Post
He had one event and he's a cancer? The guy clearly belongs in the NHL, and is turning 25.... do you blame him for wanting a real opportunity? If I was him, I would have asked for a trade as well.
His role was clearly defined to him when he came with the team and he decided to start pouting down the stretch.

I think he lucked out going to TO while the team was in full rebuilding mode which ends up being a great fit for both team and organisation.

Hope you guys enjoy him!

 
Old
10-06-2008, 09:30 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Antropovsky View Post
He had one event and he's a cancer? The guy clearly belongs in the NHL, and is turning 25.... do you blame him for wanting a real opportunity? If I was him, I would have asked for a trade as well.
I'm not saying he's wrong for that; he acted like a kid.

Good for him if he can break one NHL lineup... but he kicked himself out of MTL.

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10-06-2008, 12:09 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by emb24 View Post
sure and let's give grabovsky Brendan morrow. or better yet give us Brendan to play on a line with saku
Antropov and Ponikarowski are not bad players. Steen, Tlusly, Stajan, Kulemin

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10-06-2008, 12:17 PM
  #79
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Fine pre-season from Grabovski. The guy has talent.

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Old
10-06-2008, 12:29 PM
  #80
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I think Grabovski is well adapted to preseason play.

I'll have to wait and see how he does in the regular season. He has very nice offensive instincts and skills, but I'm still not sold on whether he can play effectively with the big, rough boys.

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10-06-2008, 12:33 PM
  #81
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Grabovsky is a unique talent. He has wheels and the ability to get in the corners, retrieve the puck and make a solid play.

What will be a problem is finding players that are able to play with him as most wingers benefit greatly from having a playmaking centre rather than a pure scorer. Successful playmaking wingers are hard to come by, especially on the Leafs.

Also, with details of what happened last year aside, I find it confusing to read that some Habs fans feel he wouldn't be a good option on the third line, which many feel will be a scoring line. With 10-13 minutes a night and the occasional PP opportunity, Grabovsky would be fine in that role; possibly chipping in 40-50 points. IMO, he's better than Lang in pure ability but doesn't bring the intangibles that Lang has after many years in the league.

But regardless, the Habs are a young team and should have given Grabovsky the chance to be the third line centre. He most likely would have grown with everyone else and become a dynamic secondary scorer. He's not soft and he's not afraid to muck it up on the ice. What more could you want?

With that said, I'm happy he's a Leaf. He does not have first line potential but will be great on the second or third line once the Leafs acquire more players through draft, trade, or free agency during their rebuild. He definitely can't be relied upon to carry the offense but such is the state of the team.

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10-06-2008, 12:39 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by WeThePeople View Post
Grabovsky is a unique talent. He has wheels and the ability to get in the corners, retrieve the puck and make a solid play.

What will be a problem is finding players that are able to play with him as most wingers benefit greatly from having a playmaking centre rather than a pure scorer. Successful playmaking wingers are hard to come by, especially on the Leafs.

Also, with details of what happened last year aside, I find it confusing to read that some Habs fans feel he wouldn't be a good option on the third line, which many feel will be a scoring line. With 10-13 minutes a night and the occasional PP opportunity, Grabovsky would be fine in that role; possibly chipping in 40-50 points. IMO, he's better than Lang in pure ability but doesn't bring the intangibles that Lang has after many years in the league.

But regardless, the Habs are a young team and should have given Grabovsky the chance to be the third line centre. He most likely would have grown with everyone else and become a dynamic secondary scorer. He's not soft and he's not afraid to muck it up on the ice. What more could you want?

With that said, I'm happy he's a Leaf. He does not have first line potential but will be great on the second or third line once the Leafs acquire more players through draft, trade, or free agency during their rebuild. He definitely can't be relied upon to carry the offense but such is the state of the team.
From what I've seen of Grabovski, he is more of a playmaker than scorer.....he definitely wouldn't be called a "pure scorer".

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10-06-2008, 12:45 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antropovsky View Post
From what I've seen of Grabovski, he is more of a playmaker than scorer.....he definitely wouldn't be called a "pure scorer".
From what I've seen of him in the pre-season, he seems to have this air of selfishness around the net; which is fine with me! However, I did check his stats on hockeyDB and his stats definitely support your theory.

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10-06-2008, 12:50 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Fido22 View Post
I think Grabovski is well adapted to preseason play.

I'll have to wait and see how he does in the regular season. He has very nice offensive instincts and skills, but I'm still not sold on whether he can play effectively with the big, rough boys.
That's the big question Leaf fans have.

He was surprisingly fear-less for a guy his size. Made alot of nice plays, and brought some much needed speed to the lineup.

But, it was only pre-season. I don't put too much stock in it.. though it's hard not to get excited from what he's displayed. Hopefully he can carry it into the season.

As for a loss to the Habs, I think it was a good move, and a really good return for a player who didn't prove much in the NHL. As hard as it was to give up that 2nd rounder, I think if Grabo can turn into a solid 2nd line producer (through his career with the Leafs) it will be well worth the price.

Hopefully this deal works out well for both teams down the line.

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10-06-2008, 12:51 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThePeople View Post
Grabovsky is a unique talent. He has wheels and the ability to get in the corners, retrieve the puck and make a solid play.

What will be a problem is finding players that are able to play with him as most wingers benefit greatly from having a playmaking centre rather than a pure scorer. Successful playmaking wingers are hard to come by, especially on the Leafs.

Also, with details of what happened last year aside, I find it confusing to read that some Habs fans feel he wouldn't be a good option on the third line, which many feel will be a scoring line. With 10-13 minutes a night and the occasional PP opportunity, Grabovsky would be fine in that role; possibly chipping in 40-50 points. IMO, he's better than Lang in pure ability but doesn't bring the intangibles that Lang has after many years in the league.

But regardless, the Habs are a young team and should have given Grabovsky the chance to be the third line centre. He most likely would have grown with everyone else and become a dynamic secondary scorer. He's not soft and he's not afraid to muck it up on the ice. What more could you want?
With that said, I'm happy he's a Leaf. He does not have first line potential but will be great on the second or third line once the Leafs acquire more players through draft, trade, or free agency during their rebuild. He definitely can't be relied upon to carry the offense but such is the state of the team.
Enjoy Grabs. He is talented without a doubt, but there are some huge flaws in his game. It's not like the Habs completely shut the door on developing him, he just didn't win a spot here. The main issue with him was that he was so easily pushed off the puck. He wasn't soft, but he sure was easy to disposses because of his lack of strength. As a result, he didn't have the puck enough to fully show off his talent in the games he played last year. Maybe he's improved in this area, but Leaf fans should wait until he plays against a full line-up of NHL defencemen before determining whether or not he will be an effective scoring line player in this league. The player I saw last year has a lot of developing to do, which is why the Habs chose to go with a more established (though declining) player at the position.

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Old
10-06-2008, 12:52 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fido22 View Post
I think Grabovski is well adapted to preseason play.

I'll have to wait and see how he does in the regular season. He has very nice offensive instincts and skills, but I'm still not sold on whether he can play effectively with the big, rough boys.
Precisely. Sprinkle a few ECHL'ers, AHL'ers, and junior prospects into lineups and guys like Grabs can prosper. No doubting his offensive abilities, but I'm amused that after 8 preseason games some think he is 100% an NHL player. MAYBE on the Leafs or some team in a similar rebuilding mode. Not on a team trying to make a serious run at anything.

A 3rd centre under 6 foot? Don't need him on the Habs. Move him to the wing? We still had too many after getting rid of Ryder. No loss.

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Old
10-06-2008, 12:54 PM
  #87
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Remember when Marius Czerkawski led the preseason in scoring? Good times...

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10-06-2008, 12:58 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antropovsky View Post
From what I've seen of Grabovski, he is more of a playmaker than scorer.....he definitely wouldn't be called a "pure scorer".
Nor a "unique" talent...

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10-06-2008, 01:01 PM
  #89
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I wouldn't say he's a loss, cause we had no room for him on the team and max pac seems better, but I wouldn't say it was a good thing not having him.

He was a good player, but recent news stories have him pegged as a locker room cancer or at least, recent HF speculation at the least

I liked him as a player, but we just don't have the room for him on the big team.

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10-06-2008, 01:01 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
Remember when Marius Czerkawski led the preseason in scoring? Good times...
Wilson recently went on record and said that Grabovski is going to be a very good player for the Maple Leafs. Not only do I agree with him, but I am more inclined to take his word for it then anyone on HF.

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10-06-2008, 01:05 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Nor a "unique" talent...
He certainly is. No doubt in my mind. Name similar players to Grabovski in terms of skill level that have plenty of question marks surrounding them heading into the season.

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10-06-2008, 01:06 PM
  #92
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I'm honestly not that dissapointed by the loss of Grabovsky. I didn't even want him on the Habs openign roster, so I could care less that he went to another team.

Grabovsky showed some glimpses of potential, but unfortunantly in a league where the ice is smaller then Europe, and the players are faster and play a much tighter system then in the AHL, i didn't seem him becoming much of a factor in the long run. He never seems to learn his lesson about keeping his head up as he crosses into centre ice. Also, he much too weak right now..he needs to put on some muscle as he tends to get knocked off the puck rather easily.

I'm happy if Leafs fans like him, but I guess he represented some of the surplus of small forwards we had in our system. Unfortunanalty for him, he was the weakest link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antropovsky View Post
Wilson recently went on record and said that Grabovski is going to be a very good player for the Maple Leafs. Not only do I agree with him, but I am more inclined to take his word for it then anyone on HF.
Good for you. We'll talk again after 40 games or so...


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Old
10-06-2008, 01:14 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Antropovsky View Post
Wilson recently went on record and said that Grabovski is going to be a very good player for the Maple Leafs. Not only do I agree with him, but I am more inclined to take his word for it then anyone on HF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThePeople View Post
He certainly is. No doubt in my mind. Name similar players to Grabovski in terms of skill level that have plenty of question marks surrounding them heading into the season.
Nobody has ever said anything as far as his talent is concerned. It's his ability to put everything together, his toughness and endurance as far as being pushed around and hit so often that we had some question marks about him.

So most people would think that he could have a decent career.

As far as comparing players and showing what icetime and confidence could do to a player well I do remember what a certain Jonas Hoglund did for you guys. Was playing on the first line until the Leafs didn't fine anything better and did the job until then. But ended up losing his spot anyway.

As far as expecations after a fine preseason, while it wasn't at that extent, I also remember the hype for a certain Alexander Suglobov.....

Not comparing Grabovski's talent to both Hoglund and Suglobov but just to explain how a player when given some great icetime could end up doing the job anyway while not being unreplaceable. And also to be extremely cautious not to overrated a player due to preseason. Grabovski could indeed transform this into something. But now while he had something to prove though nobody expected anything that much, now because of a great preseason, comes the expectations. We'll see how he handle that. But it's better to be "stuck" and have expectations for a guy like him than to expect the world out of guys with no talent....And because of the same reason, I wouldn't think that Steen and Stajan are borderline 4th liners due to their preseason either....

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10-06-2008, 01:16 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Antropovsky View Post
Wilson recently went on record and said that Grabovski is going to be a very good player for the Maple Leafs. Not only do I agree with him, but I am more inclined to take his word for it then anyone on HF.
As if Wilson is going to say that Grabovski is going to be a bad player for the team he is coaching. He might be a bad coach but he's not that bad. You guys can think Grabovski is going to be an allstar, hall of famer or whatever the hell you want, but the fact is our team is still the best in the East without him and was the best in the East last year with him contributing next to nothing. He is not a "special" player and his ceiling is second line center at best. The fact that he is your team's #1 center should worry you. You might be impressed by what he's done in the preseason but the preseason means nothing.

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10-06-2008, 01:17 PM
  #95
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Yeah it will be interesting to see how he does when intensity picks up and defencemen don't hold anything back. When our offence started to struggle in the playoffs, there was a reason Carbo didn't even consider inserting him to the lineup.

Watching a couple Leaf games this year, man they have a lot of similar players. Grabovski, Kulemin, Blake, Hagman, Steen, Stajan, Antropov, Ponikarovski...

Steen, there's another guy who was overhyped. Reminds me of Bulis without the whining.

Hagman is a nice player though.

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10-06-2008, 01:19 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by WeThePeople View Post
He certainly is. No doubt in my mind. Name similar players to Grabovski in terms of skill level that have plenty of question marks surrounding them heading into the season.
My bad. I thought you meant unique in a good or impressive way.

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10-06-2008, 01:20 PM
  #97
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He had one event and he's a cancer? The guy clearly belongs in the NHL, and is turning 25.... do you blame him for wanting a real opportunity? If I was him, I would have asked for a trade as well.
Grabovsky's intangibles are much better than Riberio's were, I don't think you can compare the 2 situations. Missing the plane or whatever was a dumb move but apart from that they haven't had any issues with him.

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10-06-2008, 01:24 PM
  #98
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Yeah it will be interesting to see how he does when intensity picks up and defencemen don't hold anything back. When our offence started to struggle in the playoffs, there was a reason Carbo didn't even consider inserting him to the lineup.
Or when he is facing real goaltenders every night. And I agree about the part you say about defensemen. That was always my biggest worry about Grabovski was that he was going to get hurt. He's so small and he's already had a couple of just miss moments where the defenseman almost took his head off. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him get knocked out cold at some point.

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10-06-2008, 01:31 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Nobody has ever said anything as far as his talent is concerned. It's his ability to put everything together, his toughness and endurance as far as being pushed around and hit so often that we had some question marks about him.

So most people would think that he could have a decent career.

As far as comparing players and showing what icetime and confidence could do to a player well I do remember what a certain Jonas Hoglund did for you guys. Was playing on the first line until the Leafs didn't fine anything better and did the job until then. But ended up losing his spot anyway.

As far as expecations after a fine preseason, while it wasn't at that extent, I also remember the hype for a certain Alexander Suglobov.....

Not comparing Grabovski's talent to both Hoglund and Suglobov but just to explain how a player when given some great icetime could end up doing the job anyway while not being unreplaceable. And also to be extremely cautious not to overrated a player due to preseason. Grabovski could indeed transform this into something. But now while he had something to prove though nobody expected anything that much, now because of a great preseason, comes the expectations. We'll see how he handle that. But it's better to be "stuck" and have expectations for a guy like him than to expect the world out of guys with no talent....And because of the same reason, I wouldn't think that Steen and Stajan are borderline 4th liners due to their preseason either....
Hoglund? So who on Grabovski's line (Tlusty/Hagman) are comparable in talent to Mats Sundin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
As if Wilson is going to say that Grabovski is going to be a bad player for the team he is coaching. He might be a bad coach but he's not that bad. You guys can think Grabovski is going to be an allstar, hall of famer or whatever the hell you want, but the fact is our team is still the best in the East without him and was the best in the East last year with him contributing next to nothing. He is not a "special" player and his ceiling is second line center at best. The fact that he is your team's #1 center should worry you. You might be impressed by what he's done in the preseason but the preseason means nothing.
Noone said he was going to be an Allstar. You guys are being pessimists, we are being optimists...... and now your being a hypocrite. Secondly, Wilson doesn't go out of his way to praise his players, he is careful with his words and recently has been more willing to be vocal about the negatives then the positives.

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10-06-2008, 01:44 PM
  #100
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Gravolski has been a good AHL player having a tough time in the NHL.
Preseason is more AHL caliber than NHL. Good for him with is 5G-3A, I hope he becomes the Leafs #1 center.

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