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So... no shutdown line?

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Old
10-07-2008, 06:03 AM
  #76
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Two words :

Carey. Price.

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Old
10-07-2008, 06:50 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwoar View Post
Had to bring this back as Carbo himself explains why there is not shutdown line:

from RDS
http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/261144.html



translated:



So there's a change in philosophy - you have it right from the coach.

What's interesting is at the end:



translation:



So it'll all go, firewagon hockey, back to the future. How will our defense hold up when called on? What effect, if any, do you think this will have on our defensive makeup? Or have those changes already been put through (as it seems to me)?
Not having a designated checking line doesn't mean firewagon hockey, it just means that puck control is the priority as well as making good decisions with and without the puck. If Tamguay Higgins and Koivu are on one line, you can match them against anybody, all 3 are above average defensively.

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Old
10-07-2008, 06:54 AM
  #78
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Carbo, comes out and says he is bringin the O cause he's got it.

be scared NHL be very scared, Da Habs are comin

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Old
10-07-2008, 07:00 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toro View Post
Carbo, comes out and says he is bringin the O cause he's got it.

be scared NHL be very scared, Da Habs are comin
with the new offensive zone faceoff rule for penalties, we might get a ton of blowouts in the regular season.

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Old
10-07-2008, 11:02 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Who on the top 3 lines is not defensively aware?

All three lines can play tit for tat with any other three lines and still have room for some scoring chances. That's huge.
I think the least defensively aware player we have on the top 3 lines is Latendresse. I'm not *****ing on Latendresse, but he would be my last choice to play on the PK of those 9 players.

I really think our shutdown line is Higgins Koivu Tanguay. If Carbo see's that he needs a real shutdown line, he can also switch Tangay with SKost. Don't know if Tanguay is really all that good defensivelly, but knowing the fact he was in Keenans Doghouse, my bet is that Skost s better.

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Old
10-07-2008, 11:08 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blades 0f Steel View Post
with the new offensive zone faceoff rule for penalties, we might get a ton of blowouts in the regular season.

Huh? What rule, haven't heard about that one dude. Can you elaborate?

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Old
10-07-2008, 11:11 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blades 0f Steel View Post
with the new offensive zone faceoff rule for penalties, we might get a ton of blowouts in the regular season.
Assuming we win a few faceoffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beakermania
We definetely will be evaluating this unit to start the season and if necessary a top 4 D can be added before the trade deadline.
Yeah I get that... I guess I'm wondering if the "new era" defense BG's been building is up for the challenge, from a *defensive* standpoint (I think we can all agree that it's a good puck-moving, transitioning squad).

I'm not conviced that this D is good enough in its own zone turning over the puck - i.e. taking it from the opposition forwards before they create 2 or more chances.

This:

Quote:
Originally Posted by HamrlikTheStud
Two words :

Carey. Price.
does seem like it *will* be the bottom line as we face 30 or more shots on a lot of nights.

So in summary Carbo is saying there's a new era - sounds like he is relying on his team to *score its way out of trouble*. Are there lots of other coaches who would agree that a new era is indeed on us now, and that scoring is the biggest part of the game?

I know when the playoffs come and we get less time on the PP (or start getting the calls only once we are down a few goals) this philosophy is gonna look shaky at best. Worse, it allows the coach (among others) to blame the refs if our D doesn't come through. Defense still wins Cups, and if it's not there *first* before the prolific scoring attack, that attack won't seem so scary.

I hope Carey Price is up for the job, it seems an awful lot is riding on his shoulders this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Huh? What rule, haven't heard about that one dude. Can you elaborate?
On penalty whistles, the faceoff is now automagically moved into the penalized team's zone no matter where the stoppage occured.

Not a good rule IMO.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 10-07-2008 at 12:47 PM.
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Old
10-07-2008, 11:17 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwoar View Post
On penalty whistles, the faceoff is now automagically moved into the penalized team's zone no matter where the stoppage occured.

Not a good rule IMO.
Which, on average, should see teams start 2 more PPs in the offensive zone per game than they normally would.

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10-07-2008, 12:48 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwoar View Post
So in summary Carbo is saying there's a new era - sounds like he is relying on his team to *score its way out of trouble*. Are there lots of other coaches who would agree that a new era is indeed on us now, and that scoring is the biggest part of the game?

I know when the playoffs come and we get less time on the PP (or start getting the calls only once we are down a few goals) this philosophy is gonna look shaky at best. Worse, it allows the coach (among others) to blame the refs if our D doesn't come through. Defense still wins Cups, and if it's not there *first* before the prolific scoring attack, that attack won't seem so scary.

I hope Carey Price is up for the job, it seems an awful lot is riding on his shoulders this year.
The less penalty calls in the playoffs thing is a myth. Since the lockout penalty calls in the playoffs are about what they average in the regular season, in fact i've seen stats that show them slightly higher. The empirical evidence refutes your claim.

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Old
10-07-2008, 01:46 PM
  #85
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Quote:
On paper the questions are

a) can Montreal's scoring lines beat opposing team's shutdown lines for many nights in a row? and

b) can a 3rd line (assuming Lang & Co. sufficiently form a decent scoring line) score enough goals to make up any difference, or to tip the balance?
a) Yes.

b) Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HamrlikTheStud View Post
Two words :

Carey. Price.
Never heard of that. What is that thing?

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Old
10-07-2008, 04:06 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
The less penalty calls in the playoffs thing is a myth. Since the lockout penalty calls in the playoffs are about what they average in the regular season, in fact i've seen stats that show them slightly higher. The empirical evidence refutes your claim.
This is gonna bring me off-topic.

Beaker it's because you are looking at the numbers on paper. Empirical evidence my ass, I'm talking about observing the source directly. Open your eyes.

C'mon man -- if you've got any tapes of last year, stick 'em in, watch again. Are the number of called infractions about the same? Yeah!

Does the number of infractions (esp. obstruction / holding / hooking) that are getting ignored go up in the playoffs? HELL YES!

That is why 5 on 5 play counts for more in the playoffs, not how good your PP is.

(See, if you're gonna make an argument, do it in big letters! Empirical evidence is for suckers!)

On topic: Clearly if you watch the playoffs there's an "equalizing" policy that favours teams who need to clutch and grab to stay in the game. I calling it the "Western Whistle policy". How will our defense hold up when our forwards are all given the green light and the six D we have are tasked with shutting down Crobsy, Malkin, Datsyuk, Hossa, etc. etc. ?

Do we have the right D? If not, what changes should be made to make this corps more effective in the playoffs?

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Old
10-07-2008, 05:31 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwoar View Post
This is gonna bring me off-topic.

Beaker it's because you are looking at the numbers on paper. Empirical evidence my ass, I'm talking about observing the source directly. Open your eyes.

C'mon man -- if you've got any tapes of last year, stick 'em in, watch again. Are the number of called infractions about the same? Yeah!

Does the number of infractions (esp. obstruction / holding / hooking) that are getting ignored go up in the playoffs? HELL YES!

That is why 5 on 5 play counts for more in the playoffs, not how good your PP is.

(See, if you're gonna make an argument, do it in big letters! Empirical evidence is for suckers!)

On topic: Clearly if you watch the playoffs there's an "equalizing" policy that favours teams who need to clutch and grab to stay in the game. I calling it the "Western Whistle policy". How will our defense hold up when our forwards are all given the green light and the six D we have are tasked with shutting down Crobsy, Malkin, Datsyuk, Hossa, etc. etc. ?

Do we have the right D? If not, what changes should be made to make this corps more effective in the playoffs?
See i think its that PP% goes down in the playoffs that makes the 5 on 5 play more important... there are a number of reasons for this...

Playing the same team 4-7 games in a row you can put together a more effective PK strategy, you can focus specifically on your opponent, you get to look at them every game and adapt, rather than seeing a new look every two days.

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Old
10-07-2008, 11:10 PM
  #88
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these posts sound eerily similar to the Pens fans' posts last year. Those first two games in the cup finals were pretty brutal. I'm not saying the Habs are the same as last years Pens. Allz i'm saying is I got a serious case of deja vu

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Old
10-08-2008, 04:52 AM
  #89
Lord Horse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
See i think its that PP% goes down in the playoffs that makes the 5 on 5 play more important... there are a number of reasons for this...

Playing the same team 4-7 games in a row you can put together a more effective PK strategy, you can focus specifically on your opponent, you get to look at them every game and adapt, rather than seeing a new look every two days.
It's part of the same package, as far as I can tell. PP% goes down due to staggered even-up calls too... I'm not claiming that it's rigged and I acknowledge the teams who are good at killing penalties; both squads can learn and change during a series, though.

I just find that the officiating I watch for 82 games is NOT THE SAME once the playoffs start. I agree with you, the PK over a 7 game series can shut down your powerplay, but I still say that the officiating in the East changes when the playoffs start.

That will affect our defense at some point I'll bet.


Last edited by Lord Horse: 10-08-2008 at 04:55 AM. Reason: extreme drunkenness
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