HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Bobby Orr vs. Paul Coffey

View Poll Results: Bobby Orr vs. Paul Coffey
Bobby Orr 15 100.00%
Paul Coffey 0 0%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-08-2008, 04:19 PM
  #26
Murphy
Registered User
 
Murphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,104
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
(clear throat) umm....look Coffey was no Orr. I do pity the OP on this one because I knew he would get ripped. And if you want to call his defense shoddy then go ahead, it wasnt Bourque defense, but it wasnt Housley either.

But dont go ranting about something ridiculous like saying he was a point leach. He certainly was NOT that. Very few NHL players in history have the natural skill Cof had. Look at his speed, his moves, his pinpoint passes. And while he wasnt physical he was usually defensively aware. He was the defenseman back in the '84 Canada Cup semi final game in overtime. It was Doug Wilson that foolishly pinched in, not Coffey. It was Coffey that bailed them out with a smart defensive play.

The best year that Lemieux ever had was a year that Coffey was his defenseman. Ditto for Gretzky. Fedorov had 100+ points twice when Coffey was his defenseman but was only a PPG player ONE non-Coffey year in his career. Coincidence? You tell me. Three Norrises, 4 Cups, 3 Canada Cups, 8 times voted to the 1st or 2nd all-star team.

Plus while he didnt do anything after '96 for the last 5 years that isnt how he should or will be remembered. Coffey led his team in points in '95, won the Norris and he was 34! Not bad. Now I have my theory as to why he isnt a leech. You explain to me how he IS a leech.
Thank-you Big Phil, very well put.

Murphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2008, 06:10 PM
  #27
jcorb58
Registered User
 
jcorb58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
(clear throat) umm....look Coffey was no Orr. I do pity the OP on this one because I knew he would get ripped. And if you want to call his defense shoddy then go ahead, it wasnt Bourque defense, but it wasnt Housley either.

But dont go ranting about something ridiculous like saying he was a point leach. He certainly was NOT that. Very few NHL players in history have the natural skill Cof had. Look at his speed, his moves, his pinpoint passes. And while he wasnt physical he was usually defensively aware. He was the defenseman back in the '84 Canada Cup semi final game in overtime. It was Doug Wilson that foolishly pinched in, not Coffey. It was Coffey that bailed them out with a smart defensive play.

The best year that Lemieux ever had was a year that Coffey was his defenseman. Ditto for Gretzky. Fedorov had 100+ points twice when Coffey was his defenseman but was only a PPG player ONE non-Coffey year in his career. Coincidence? You tell me. Three Norrises, 4 Cups, 3 Canada Cups, 8 times voted to the 1st or 2nd all-star team.

Plus while he didnt do anything after '96 for the last 5 years that isnt how he should or will be remembered. Coffey led his team in points in '95, won the Norris and he was 34! Not bad. Now I have my theory as to why he isnt a leech. You explain to me how he IS a leech.

Thanks Big Phil from alot of Oiler fans that know Paul was defiantly not Bobby. He was what what he was, a joy to watch. As effortless a skater as there ever will be. Why worry about giving up a bad goal when you can get it back in 3 quick strides?

jcorb58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2008, 06:22 PM
  #28
Randall Graves*
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 18,621
vCash: 500
Man there really are alot of people who dislike Coffey. Watching him with the Oilers, I never got the sense he 'leached' off of Wayne. How does a dman score 50 goals by leaching? Ridiculous...

Randall Graves* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2008, 06:55 PM
  #29
RUSqueelin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by krauts View Post
Watching Bobby Orr skate was a joyous thing, he did it like no other I've ever seen. I could watch it for hours.

And in Coffey's defense, he was (in his prime) the closest I've seen. I remember him hitting center ice and then somehow coasting through the defense, didn't take a stride all the way in but still went around everybody. But yeah, he should have hung 'em up a lot earlier. Funny how little press there was when he and Raymond were vying for the all-time points record. I think a lot of people didn't realize he was even still playing.
I agree. Coffey is the only player I've seen that glided faster then other players skater. A thing of beauty to watch. However, the comparision to Orr as a hockey player is hogwash.

RUSqueelin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2008, 10:39 PM
  #30
wilkrogers
 
wilkrogers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 28
vCash: 500
paul who?

wilkrogers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2008, 02:31 PM
  #31
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,873
vCash: 500
Maybe they meant he's a Leetch... as in, a much better version of Brian Leetch.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2008, 04:33 PM
  #32
Koivu84*
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,917
vCash: 500
One difference, Bobby Orr played defense

Koivu84* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2008, 05:19 PM
  #33
raleh
Registered User
 
raleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 1,764
vCash: 500
Everything that Coffey was good at, Orr was better. Coffey was absolutely abysmal in some aspects of the game and Orr was the best at those things too.

It's not even close. Orr's BY FAR the greatest defenceman of all time and Coffey's not even in the top ten. On some lists he's not even in the top 15.

raleh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2008, 05:26 PM
  #34
Randall Graves*
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 18,621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleh View Post
Everything that Coffey was good at, Orr was better. Coffey was absolutely abysmal in some aspects of the game and Orr was the best at those things too.

It's not even close. Orr's BY FAR the greatest defenceman of all time and Coffey's not even in the top ten. On some lists he's not even in the top 15.
Very debateable.

Randall Graves* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2008, 05:49 PM
  #35
Dark Shadows
Registered User
 
Dark Shadows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canada
Country: Japan
Posts: 7,983
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Graves View Post
Very debateable.
Debatable, but I agree with him. Coffey is only 12th on my list, and was voted only 12th on many lists because that is where he placed in the HOH top 100 votings.

Dark Shadows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2008, 07:14 PM
  #36
Slapshooter
Registered User
 
Slapshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 696
vCash: 500
More interesting comparison would have been their offensive abilities. I would still take Orr, but at least it would be debatable. Now, when the question is "Orr or Coffey", there is nothing to discuss. This thread just leads to unnecessary Coffey-bashing.

Slapshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2008, 05:09 AM
  #37
Randall Graves*
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 18,621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thornton_19 View Post
Debatable, but I agree with him. Coffey is only 12th on my list, and was voted only 12th on many lists because that is where he placed in the HOH top 100 votings.
Ok but he's still close, even with his defensive shortcomings it can't be denied he was one of the most unique players ever. Offensively he's the only dman to ever come close to Orr, atleast in modern times.

Randall Graves* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2008, 10:46 AM
  #38
Dark Shadows
Registered User
 
Dark Shadows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canada
Country: Japan
Posts: 7,983
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Graves View Post
Ok but he's still close, even with his defensive shortcomings it can't be denied he was one of the most unique players ever. Offensively he's the only dman to ever come close to Orr, atleast in modern times.
A feat made possible by shirking his first duty as a defenseman. Defense. If you play like a forward, you can score like a forward. Not to mention his offensive supporting cast helped him as much as he helped them.

Ill take guys who can put up 80-90 points on weaker offensive teams and still play stellar 9/10 defensive hockey over guys who can put up 120 and play 5/10 defensive hockey. Coffey wasn't Housley 3/10 Defensively, but I can name at least 10 Dmen I would take first over him if I was building a team.

Dark Shadows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2008, 01:54 PM
  #39
raleh
Registered User
 
raleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 1,764
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thornton_19 View Post
A feat made possible by shirking his first duty as a defenseman. Defense. If you play like a forward, you can score like a forward. Not to mention his offensive supporting cast helped him as much as he helped them.

Ill take guys who can put up 80-90 points on weaker offensive teams and still play stellar 9/10 defensive hockey over guys who can put up 120 and play 5/10 defensive hockey. Coffey wasn't Housley 3/10 Defensively, but I can name at least 10 Dmen I would take first over him if I was building a team.
Exactly. I'll never say that Coffey wasn't the second best offensive dman of all time, but I will never put him in the top 10 all around because it just seemed like he was a fourth forward, not a defenceman leading the rush. I just hate the idea of a #1 blueliner who can't be thrown out against the top offensive unit on the other team. To me, a guy like that can't be your anchor on the blue line. He was a great skater, passer, point getter, yada yada yada, I won't argue that, but there's a LONG list of guys I want on the ice ahead of him if I'm defending a lead and that kind of defensive reliability is what I look for in a #1 dman.

Just my opinion though.

raleh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2008, 05:05 PM
  #40
Fish on The Sand
Untouchable
 
Fish on The Sand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Posts: 51,754
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
As others have suggested, not even close.

Stylistically, Coffey earns a comparison and the guy certainly produced offense, famously.

But, as is, there are several other modern era dmen who clearly rank between Orr, who was unquestionably the best ever, and Coffey. Two examples: Ray Bourque and Denis Potvin had much more cerebral games than the scintillating Coffey. But both were also much more complete, and frankly superior, players.
but if Orr was really better than Coffey his teams would have won more stanley cups.

Fish on The Sand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2008, 05:06 PM
  #41
Trebek
Mod Supervisor
 
Trebek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
but if Orr was really better than Coffey his teams would have won more stanley cups.
Interesting theory. And I'm using the alternate version of "interesting", which is a synonym for "incorrect".

Your logic also "proves" that Darren McCarty is a superior forward to Gil Perreault and Marcel Dionne.

Trebek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2008, 03:45 AM
  #42
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 24,856
vCash: 500
First of all. Orr. All the way.

Okay, now that that's out of the way. Paul Coffey gets a bad rap for his defense all the time, which is quite unfair. It's not that he couldn't effectively play sound defense, he was TOLD not to. I posted a few quotes in another thread along these lines, but for those who haven't seen it I'll paraphrase.

Basically, every time he played a more reserved game (for whatever reason, opponent that night, whatever) he was questioned about what the heck he was doing, and was constantly reminded that it wasn't the role his coaches wanted him to play. In his first year in the league, for example, he played decently sound defense and didn't take a lot of risks offensively. Everyone around him knew he was capable of more (he had been an offensive defenseman in the Q, very much known for his skating). So, he was played with responsible vets like Lariviere, Huddy, etc, who told him "Hey, you get the puck and don't worry, I'll be back here." Not because he needed help, but because that was the style of game they wanted to play.

And then, after the Edmonton days, every team he went to basically used him the same way, and why not. Seriously, saying he COULDN'T play good defense is just ridiculous. Heck, with skating like that and being a solid 200 lbs, he could have stayed at home and no forward would have gotten away from him. But, he played the way he was expected/told to, which was what is often referred to as a "rover". And good for him. Because he was encouraged to use the best of his skills he retired as the leading scorer among defensemen in the history of hockey and assured himself a seat in the Hall.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2008, 12:21 PM
  #43
poise
Registered User
 
poise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 232
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Basically, every time he played a more reserved game (for whatever reason, opponent that night, whatever) he was questioned about what the heck he was doing, and was constantly reminded that it wasn't the role his coaches wanted him to play. In his first year in the league, for example, he played decently sound defense and didn't take a lot of risks offensively. Everyone around him knew he was capable of more (he had been an offensive defenseman in the Q, very much known for his skating). So, he was played with responsible vets like Lariviere, Huddy, etc, who told him "Hey, you get the puck and don't worry, I'll be back here." Not because he needed help, but because that was the style of game they wanted to play.
This happened a lot in the 1986-1987 season, when his production plummeted, not only due to his back, but because of the more conservative way he played (probably due as much to the older and more defensive Oilers as to his injury).

Whereas before Paul Coffey would be more willing to play up high in the Defensive zone, looking to strip the puck and start a rush, now he was taking away lanes and actually trying to block shots. Coffey said he played that way because he didn't feel good enough to make those risky plays. I remember Wayne Gretzky defending him saying he was playing better Defensively then ever and yet his detractors still found something negative to say, basically turning around what they had dogged him on before. Later when he reflected on it, he would make that "Catch-22" comment which I thought was most apt.

poise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-11-2008, 07:45 PM
  #44
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
 
Nalyd Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: No Bandwagon
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,341
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
First of all. Orr. All the way.

Okay, now that that's out of the way. Paul Coffey gets a bad rap for his defense all the time, which is quite unfair. It's not that he couldn't effectively play sound defense, he was TOLD not to. I posted a few quotes in another thread along these lines, but for those who haven't seen it I'll paraphrase.

Basically, every time he played a more reserved game (for whatever reason, opponent that night, whatever) he was questioned about what the heck he was doing, and was constantly reminded that it wasn't the role his coaches wanted him to play. In his first year in the league, for example, he played decently sound defense and didn't take a lot of risks offensively. Everyone around him knew he was capable of more (he had been an offensive defenseman in the Q, very much known for his skating). So, he was played with responsible vets like Lariviere, Huddy, etc, who told him "Hey, you get the puck and don't worry, I'll be back here." Not because he needed help, but because that was the style of game they wanted to play.

And then, after the Edmonton days, every team he went to basically used him the same way, and why not. Seriously, saying he COULDN'T play good defense is just ridiculous. Heck, with skating like that and being a solid 200 lbs, he could have stayed at home and no forward would have gotten away from him. But, he played the way he was expected/told to, which was what is often referred to as a "rover". And good for him. Because he was encouraged to use the best of his skills he retired as the leading scorer among defensemen in the history of hockey and assured himself a seat in the Hall.
In Detroit, Bowman struggled to get him to play conservatively. Coffey does for the lockout year and has an MVP calibre year. Then he reverts to his old ways and Bowman ships him out.

__________________
Every post comes with the Nalyd Psycho Seal of Approval.
Nalyd Psycho is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:33 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.