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Old
10-12-2008, 06:29 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
I'M NOT TRYING TO BE PESSIMIST ABOUT THE TEAM IN GENERAL, I'M JUST DISCUSSING SOMETHING WE CAN BE EVEN BETTER AT

Yesterday was really an awesome game to watch with ALOT of high points, i can't imgame how our offense will look like once Higgins plays with Lang and S.Kost and that we get 3 full offensive lines. Being the Devil's advocate, with an 82 games season, we will need a much better support from our 4th line.

I'm sorry but the Bégin-Lappierre-Dandenault line was terrible to watch, they weren't brigning any energy whatsoever, they were below average defensively, barely no hits, all 3 refused to pass the puck yesterday, playing that useless ''dump the puck and chase it game only to be beaten by the defensmen''. Why isn't Chipchura playing when he brings more offense that the 3 put together, It's not like they bring leadership in the locker room or any specific need on the ice. I know that Laraque wil change the line alot, but please Carbo do something, Our 4th line should be able to bring alot since we have 3 offensive lines. Kyle Chipchura has to be part of the team soon and Max Lappierre has to play at wing because it's not working as a center
I'm speechless....our fourth liners are exactly what they are supposed to be fourth liners. Look at the game, we are critical of Lapierre because he doesn't make the right offensive play but he is not on the team for goalscoring or playmaking. He is there to win faceoffs and work his ass off defensively, which is exactly what he does. Same for Dandy and Begin, they are paid to hold there own, forecheck like there is no tomorrow, play well in their end and contribute on the PK. As far as I am concerned they do that well. Also, once Laraque and Higgins comes back, there will be six players for three spots, no free rides.

As for Chips vs. Lapierre, be careful what you wish for. Chips might have a greater upside offensively, but Lapierre is a much better skater and much better on face-offs. Chips still has a lot to improve before he can take Lapierre's job.

And for all those quality posts about how Dandy and Lapierre owe their spots on the team because they are french - that's a bunch of crap. Gainey and Carbs have never bowed to the so called "french media" or "french bias" and I don't suspect they will begin. Carbs said it best that Chips did not have a great camp and only stuck because of injuries. I fully expect that he will be sent down as soon as some of the injuries come back.

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Old
10-12-2008, 06:33 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Carbo has no common sense. That is why they finished 1st in their Conference last year, and that Carbo was among the finalists for the Jack Adams...

If you want to complain, just look at Gainey who has given one-way contract to Lapierre, 1 million to Begin, and 1.7 to Dandenault.

Injuries happen over a season, and Chipchura will have plenty of opportunities to play and prove that he really belongs to the NHL.
hmm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ape Clutch View Post
...

I wonder... Carbonneau always seems to go against common sense... however this probably mean that the common sense is wrong...meh... I just want to see that line!
I made a mistake granted it should read "this probably meanS that..."

Common sense is closer to "Common knowledge" rather then the use for it that we make today (It's usually a stand in for "obvious point blank in your face logic").

What I wrote in the 2nd part, was that maybe the majority of people who's Idea/Sense tells them that Kosto-Chip-BGL line is a good line are wrong.

So even though I said Carbo goes against common sense, it wasn't that he has no logic/common sense, it was more of a different way of saying that he goes against popular ideas/opinions etc...
This is probably due to us being in fact less informed/knowledgeable then he is.

Thank you for understanding

Cheers!

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Old
10-12-2008, 07:27 PM
  #28
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My feelings on the fourth line.


don't play them. Lappy Begin Dandenault can all take a seat. Constantly hemmed into their own zone last night. balls players balls

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Old
10-12-2008, 07:42 PM
  #29
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Good post. Whining about the Habs only having Kots, Begin, Laps, Dandy etc is pathetic especially after the first game. This is a fourth line after 2 games. At least these boys skate like the wind. To panic about the 4th liners not being Mario Lemieuz is sad sad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habnot View Post
I'm speechless....our fourth liners are exactly what they are supposed to be fourth liners. Look at the game, we are critical of Lapierre because he doesn't make the right offensive play but he is not on the team for goalscoring or playmaking. He is there to win faceoffs and work his ass off defensively, which is exactly what he does. Same for Dandy and Begin, they are paid to hold there own, forecheck like there is no tomorrow, play well in their end and contribute on the PK. As far as I am concerned they do that well. Also, once Laraque and Higgins comes back, there will be six players for three spots, no free rides.

As for Chips vs. Lapierre, be careful what you wish for. Chips might have a greater upside offensively, but Lapierre is a much better skater and much better on face-offs. Chips still has a lot to improve before he can take Lapierre's job.

And for all those quality posts about how Dandy and Lapierre owe their spots on the team because they are french - that's a bunch of crap. Gainey and Carbs have never bowed to the so called "french media" or "french bias" and I don't suspect they will begin. Carbs said it best that Chips did not have a great camp and only stuck because of injuries. I fully expect that he will be sent down as soon as some of the injuries come back.

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10-12-2008, 08:01 PM
  #30
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When your worst player, a 14th foward/8th defenseman is Mathieu Dandenault, that's because you have a pretty good team. Some people ***** and whine about our fourth liners, but those guys can do their job pretty well and might come handy during playoffs time.

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Old
10-12-2008, 09:29 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
When your worst player, a 14th foward/8th defenseman is Mathieu Dandenault, that's because you have a pretty good team. Some people ***** and whine about our fourth liners, but those guys can do their job pretty well and might come handy during playoffs time.
I think it's more the fact that a guy like Chipchura is sitting out when he is way more servicable than a guy like Lapierre, Dandenault and Begin.

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10-12-2008, 09:50 PM
  #32
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The 4th line has not been great. But then again we have only played a couple of games so I am not sure I would totally write off Begin and Lapierre. On the other hand these guys are only seeing 9 to 11 min per game. That is low enough that you have to consider whether you want to take a developing player getting double that time in hamilton and give him limited minutes with the habs

With guys returning from injuries one or two of these guys are going to probably be watching from the press box anyway. I don't see much point in yoyoing guys up and down from the AHL until we decide who we are actually going to keep around.

As for the Begin penalties (dumb!) I am not so sure about the first call but the second right in front of the ref was stupid. If he continues that kind of boneheaded play he will make some choices a lot easier

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Old
10-12-2008, 09:55 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I think it's more the fact that a guy like Chipchura is sitting out when he is way more servicable than a guy like Lapierre, Dandenault and Begin.
But that s exactly the point. As a fourth liner why is Chips more valuable than Lapierre (comparing centremen).
- Is Chips a better skater? Definite No.
- Is Chips better at draws? Definite No, Lapierre is probably the best for the Habs, while Chips is poor on draws. I think in one exhibition game he lost all his draws or close.
- Does Chips have better offensive instincts? Yes - but thats not what you need from a 4th liner.
- Does Chips have a two way contract? Bye-bye...

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10-12-2008, 10:00 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habnot View Post
But that s exactly the point. As a fourth liner why is Chips more valuable than Lapierre (comparing centremen).
- Is Chips a better skater? Definite No.
- Is Chips better at draws? Definite No, Lapierre is probably the best for the Habs, while Chips is poor on draws. I think in one exhibition game he lost all his draws or close.
- Does Chips have better offensive instincts? Yes - but thats not what you need from a 4th liner.
- Does Chips have a two way contract? Bye-bye...
Is Chips better defensively? Yes.
Is Chips are a better hockey player? Yes.
Is Chips a better PK-er? Yes.
Is Chips better positonally? Yes.
Is Chips better on the board? Yes.
Is Chips better at puck retrieval? Yes.
Does Chips have a higher hockey IQ? Yes.
Does Chips have a higher upside that should be nurtured? Yes.

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Old
10-12-2008, 10:08 PM
  #35
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Instead of thinking winning, think human.

Bégin and Dandenault are veterans. Lapierre just signed a contract.

Carbo, then, will give them all chances he can to prove themselves. If they keep failing, he'll replace them. This way, he can say to his veterans that he gave them a good shot a proving themselves, and that Chipchura/Pacioretty/Laraque beat them fair and square for a spot.

Then they can't whine or be *****y, or they'll be frowned upon by the rest of the team.

It's the beginning of the season, we have some hurt players, so it's the time to do it. Remember Carbonneau played about 20 years in the NHL and understands player psyche better than we do. You don't coach only players, but humans as well.

For now, they aren't delivering. Carbo will start giving time to Chipchura soon enough, and if Chip plays well, it will be impossible to wedge him out of a spot.

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Old
10-12-2008, 10:24 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Is Chips better defensively? Yes. Not Sure
Is Chips are a better hockey player? Yes. Not factual, just your opinion
Is Chips a better PK-er? Yes. Errr.No - Lapierre is already doing it effectively
Is Chips better positonally? Yes.Not Sure
Is Chips better on the board? Yes. Based on what?
Is Chips better at puck retrieval? Yes. Based on what?
Does Chips have a higher hockey IQ? Yes. Ok, I'll give you that one
Does Chips have a higher upside that should be nurtured? Yes. Only if he ever improves his skating
Geez put that way Carbo is the one that needs to be replaced, by you. Did you happen to catch Carbo's comments or are they irrelevant in your judgement.

Either your evaluation is flawed or Gainey/Carbo are a bunch of incompetents.

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Old
10-12-2008, 10:36 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1UP View Post
Instead of thinking winning, think human.

Bégin and Dandenault are veterans. Lapierre just signed a contract.

Carbo, then, will give them all chances he can to prove themselves. If they keep failing, he'll replace them. This way, he can say to his veterans that he gave them a good shot a proving themselves, and that Chipchura/Pacioretty/Laraque beat them fair and square for a spot.

Then they can't whine or be *****y, or they'll be frowned upon by the rest of the team.

It's the beginning of the season, we have some hurt players, so it's the time to do it. Remember Carbonneau played about 20 years in the NHL and understands player psyche better than we do. You don't coach only players, but humans as well.

For now, they aren't delivering. Carbo will start giving time to Chipchura soon enough, and if Chip plays well, it will be impossible to wedge him out of a spot.
Amen !

Habs only gave 2 goals in 2 games during the regular time ; those goals weren't scored when the 4 th line was on the ice , so where is the problem exactly ?

The only problem i see with the 4 th line until now , is that they are not playing together and are trying to do too much things , because they are all fighting againts each others , to keep their spot with the team .

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Old
10-12-2008, 11:16 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Komisarek View Post
I don't wanna start a political fight or anything, but if Lapierre and Begin weren't from Quebec, they wouldn't be on the team... That's just my opinion.
Is it already time for this forum's annual "Find the frenchie punching bag" contest yet again? Who will it be this year...

Breeeeeeeeeeeeeeezeby, Fat Lats, Soft Tangs, Done Begin, NOTCHIP-Lapierre or Dandouillon (two for the price of one!)

Past winners include André Racicot, Patrick Traverse, Patrice Brisebois, Donald Audette, Jose Theodore, Mike Ribeiro and any other marginal francophone who played with the habs for the past ten years.

So who will win? STAY TUNED !!!!!!!!!!

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Old
10-12-2008, 11:37 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Brisk-Illusion View Post
I felt the same way since his penalty in game 4 vs Philly, I forgave him after the Toronto penalty, but costing us the season two years in a row is too much. I don't care how much effort he gives, or how big his heart is, you can't make those kinds of mistakes and still have a spot on the team.

On the bright side Kosto-Chipchura-Laraque is a much better 4th line than Dandy-Lappiere-Begin.
I think we'll see

Kosto - Lapierre - Laraque

with Chips in the minors once Bouillion is off IR

I agree that
Chips > Lappy

but Chips is the only one who can go to Hamilton without clearing waivers... thats unfortunate and hurting his chances of cracking the lineup right now IMO.

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Old
10-13-2008, 06:58 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habnot View Post
Geez put that way Carbo is the one that needs to be replaced, by you. Did you happen to catch Carbo's comments or are they irrelevant in your judgement.

Either your evaluation is flawed or Gainey/Carbo are a bunch of incompetents.
You're right, Carbonneau should be replaced by me.

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Old
10-13-2008, 08:05 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1UP View Post
Instead of thinking winning, think human.

Bégin and Dandenault are veterans. Lapierre just signed a contract.

Carbo, then, will give them all chances he can to prove themselves. If they keep failing, he'll replace them. This way, he can say to his veterans that he gave them a good shot a proving themselves, and that Chipchura/Pacioretty/Laraque beat them fair and square for a spot.

Then they can't whine or be *****y, or they'll be frowned upon by the rest of the team.

It's the beginning of the season, we have some hurt players, so it's the time to do it. Remember Carbonneau played about 20 years in the NHL and understands player psyche better than we do. You don't coach only players, but humans as well.

For now, they aren't delivering. Carbo will start giving time to Chipchura soon enough, and if Chip plays well, it will be impossible to wedge him out of a spot.
I agree. These guys have to play themselves out of the job. 2 games at 9 to 11 min per game is not enough time to do that. Any coach who second guesses himself and the guys in 2 games is going to have a lot of trouble on his hands. The roster is set for now and the clock is ticking.

Think of it this way. If Chips did come up and he had a couple of so so games to start out do they send him right back down?

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Old
10-13-2008, 08:15 AM
  #42
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Holy crap guys...sit back and think about this discussion...


We are nitpicking about the fourth line...


Isnt that a great feeling considering this is all we really have to complain about at the moment?

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10-13-2008, 08:21 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
You're right, Carbonneau should be replaced by me.
lol...you just made my day.

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10-13-2008, 09:34 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Chezz View Post
Holy crap guys...sit back and think about this discussion...


We are nitpicking about the fourth line...


Isnt that a great feeling considering this is all we really have to complain about at the moment?
Well, all of our lines are fourth lines.

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lol...you just made my day.
Not the first time.

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10-13-2008, 09:36 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Not the first time.
Of course not *wink wink*

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10-13-2008, 09:54 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Komisarek View Post
I don't wanna start a political fight or anything, but if Lapierre and Begin weren't from Quebec, they wouldn't be on the team... That's just my opinion.
*dropkicks you out of the thread*

I guess the fact that Lapierre is our only agitator + has had more pro experience than Chips never once dawned on you. What do you propose, the Habs let him rot in the AHL while scoring 30 goals? Or do they trade him for a 6th rounder & let him develop into a great agitator else where?

As for Begin, he had a decent preseason & has proven time & again that he can provide energy, grit, kill penalties & bring depth to an org that wants to go deep in the playoffs.

Such a stupid post!

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Old
10-13-2008, 09:57 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blades 0f Steel View Post
*dropkicks you out of the thread*

I guess the fact that Lapierre is our only agitator + has had more pro experience than Chips never once dawned on you. What do you propose, the Habs let him rot in the AHL while scoring 30 goals? Or do they trade him for a 6th rounder & let him develop into a great agitator else where?

As for Begin, he had a decent preseason & has proven time & again that he can provide energy, grit, kill penalties & bring depth to an org that wants to go deep in the playoffs.

Such a stupid post!
My sarcasm meter is off.

Lapierre is not agitating anyone, at all, anymore. I haven't seen him do it since his first call up.

Begin if not injured can provide energy and kill penalties, but however he is indisciplined and takes penalties at the worst times and of the worst genre.

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10-13-2008, 10:02 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by VGTvidz View Post
laraque-chipper-kosto would be my line
I would agree that at this point this looks like it could be our best option.

I suspect we will get the same lineup tonight in Philadelphia, but im quite dissapointed that Chips hasn't gotten any game action yet. What exactly have the current 4th line guys done in the first 2 games to warrant keeping him out of the lineup?

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10-13-2008, 10:03 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
My sarcasm meter is off.

Lapierre is not agitating anyone, at all, anymore. I haven't seen him do it since his first call up.
Then you missed one of his 1st games where he got in Crosby's grill all night long & the board was singing his praises. If the search feature wasn't fubar'd I'd link you. He seemed to annoy the hell out of the Senators & Bruins last year.

You expect him to agitate Grabovsky or something? Wait until the Habs play the Flyers, Bruins, Pens etc then make such a comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Begin if not injured can provide energy and kill penalties, but however he is indisciplined and takes penalties at the worst times and of the worst genre.
Out of 160+ games the past 2 years, people zero in on like 4 bad calls. I prefer not to think of him as a complete idiot & I have confidence he won't hurt the team if he's in a limited role.

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10-13-2008, 10:06 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blades 0f Steel View Post
Then you missed one of his 1st games where he got in Crosby's grill all night long & the board was singing his praises. If the search feature wasn't fubar'd I'd link you.

You expect him to agitate Grabovsky or something? Wait until the Habs play the Flyers, Bruins, Pens etc then make such a comment.
That was in his first call-up? Wasn't it? He was amazing when he was first called up. They sent him down, I forget the reasoning. He got cut out of training camp the next season, then he came back up Chipchura got sent down for whatever reason and Lapierre has been horrible sense and is getting a free ride over Chipchura who is miles better at every facet of the game but agitating, which doesn't matter since Lapierre doesn't do it anymore, and speed, which doesn't matter since Chipchura's smarts puts him in the right position in the same amount of time it takes Lapierre to hustle there after reacting to the play because he can't read the play.

We'll see tonight vs. Philly. I doubt he does anything of substance except botch another 2-on-1.



Quote:
Out of 160+ games the past 2 years, people zero in on like 4 bad calls. I prefer not to think of him as a complete idiot & I have confidence he won't hurt the team if he's in a limited role.
Of course we'll remember those 4 calls. Because two of them cost us our season, effectively.

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