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Old
10-14-2008, 07:15 AM
  #26
Shadowtron
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I think the Rangers should just stay away from the 1st round. It puts the player they select in grave danger.

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Old
10-14-2008, 07:16 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Not sure if it's appropriate yet to be considering this (nor if it really ever will be).

Because he was unsigned we should receive the #47 pick in the upcoming draft.

Poor compensation for someone's life, and from a hockey perspective, poor compensation for a 17th overall pick. But, again from a purely hockey perspective, at least it's something.

It's just ridiculous this happened though. goddammit

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10-14-2008, 07:25 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by gabevh3 View Post
name those players that excelled in the rsl and didnt in the nhl .. im curious
Well, Marcel Hossa is tearing up the KHL right now. But I still believe Cherapanov would have been at minimum an impact player for the Rangers.

I think right now, NY's best option is to make a move at the draft. We have such a deep system, redundancies at certain positions, we can afford to really put together an attractive package for the right player. At center, we have Drury, Gomez, Dubinsky, Anisimov, Korpikoski, Moore, Betts, Fritsche and probably 4 more I'm forgetting. D we have Roszival and Redden locked up for the next 5 years at least. Staal and Girardi will be here for a long time with Sanguinetti, Del Zotto on the horizon providing very similar games.

We lack scoring wingers now and in the future, even with Cherapanov we would have had to made a move for depth, it is just more urgent now.

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10-14-2008, 09:12 AM
  #29
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From a hockey standpoint, you just move along and get on with the task at hand. There were great prospects before him and they will be hundreds of great prospects in the near future. Not just from Russia but from all around the globe.

Personally, I would rather him never to have left Russia for his whole career, if he could just be alive today. If that makes sense.

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10-14-2008, 09:20 AM
  #30
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I go very hard after Gaborik now, and lock him up for around 5 years.

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10-14-2008, 09:24 AM
  #31
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While it hurts to lose a top prospect, I really fail to see how this changes anything on the NHL level. There was no guarantee that Cherepanov was going to win a spot next year.

Seems to me more fans had Cherepanov penciled into next lineup than anyone of the Ranger brass.

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Old
10-14-2008, 09:26 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Well, there's this fella down south named Kovalchuk, and if you really think about it, there are quite a few reasons to think that he'll be wearing Ranger blue by the Fall of 2010. It made sense even before the loss of Cherepanov, but it may make even more sense now that he's gone.
A UFA signing isn't really an option.

The Rangers long term strategy was for guys like Cherepanov to fill the void as pending UFA's leave and players making low wages earn an increase. Being that he's really the only top 6 prospect that the team has, it's definitely going to complicate things for years to come, at least in terms of cap management.

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10-14-2008, 09:30 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
A UFA signing isn't really an option.

The Rangers long term strategy was for guys like Cherepanov to fill the void as pending UFA's leave and players making low wages earn an increase. Being that he's really the only top 6 prospect that the team has, it's definitely going to complicate things for years to come, at least in terms of cap management.
you don't know that. Most people here thought Dubinsky would never be as good as he his now, in fact I remember some saying he is just a 3rd line player. I think that we have coul have three more top 6 players in the system. Anisimov, Grachev, and Hagelin. Stepan and Weise are wildcards, especially Stepan. out of all of the I think Hagelin will be the best, I just have this real special feeling about him, even though I only saw him play 2 or 3 times. Sorta like the feeling when we drafted Dubi. But I think he might have more pure skill.

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10-14-2008, 09:46 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
you don't know that. Most people here thought Dubinsky would never be as good as he his now, in fact I remember some saying he is just a 3rd line player. I think that we have coul have three more top 6 players in the system. Anisimov, Grachev, and Hagelin. Stepan and Weise are wildcards, especially Stepan. out of all of the I think Hagelin will be the best, I just have this real special feeling about him, even though I only saw him play 2 or 3 times. Sorta like the feeling when we drafted Dubi. But I think he might have more pure skill.
Exactly, you never know how a young player will develop and if we get lucky, some of those players you mentioned could be top players for us one day.


I feel really guilty and dirty about this topic/thread

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10-14-2008, 09:47 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
A UFA signing isn't really an option.

The Rangers long term strategy was for guys like Cherepanov to fill the void as pending UFA's leave and players making low wages earn an increase. Being that he's really the only top 6 prospect that the team has, it's definitely going to complicate things for years to come, at least in terms of cap management.
I disagree.

Naslund's contract will be coming off the books just as Kovalchuk becomes a free agent. There are also contracts you can trade for Kovalchuk at the 2010 deadline. You'd like to think that by then, Sanguinetti will be in the NHL, which could make Rozsival expendable, which would take off a nice hefty $5 million from the books. You could trade a first round pick, Rozsival, and prospects for Kovalchuk and then, hopefully, re-sign him before he hits the open market.

And here's why I think it make sense:

Think about the make up of this team by the summer of 2010. An elite goaltender, a coach that players like to play for, a solid defense, and great character. A young team with, hopefully, some established young players who re just entering their prime (Lundqvist, Dubinsky, Staal, Zherdev, Callahan), nice veteran leadership in the form of Drury and Gomez and Redden. Solid role players like Betts. Some bright young players like Sangs and Anisimov who are just making their impact on the team.

Even if you have to give one or two of those guys away along with Rozsival to get Kovalchuk, this team would be one top notch scorer away from being one of the two or three best teams in the league. That's where Kovalchuk comes in. And the only guy on this team who I wouldn't trade for Kovalchuk would be Dubinsky, and of course Lundqvist. Dubi is going to be the heart and soul of this franchise, like a Graves, for a long time. But everyone else? I love Staal, I love Callahan, etc etc, but of course you deal them if you can get one of the 5 best offensive players in the game.

Plus, he gets to play with another center, Gomez, who excels at setting wingers up, like he did with Savard. And, Russians like NY. Trust me, I'm Russian. Brighton Beach is the largest Russian community in the world outside of the former Soviet Union. They want to be here.

Of course other things can happen, but I doubt Kovalchuk stays in Atlanta. They aren't going to be good by the time he's a UFA, and I just think it makes so much sense for the Rangers to find a way to make it work, even if they just wait till the 2010 summer when he is a free agent.

I'd much rather have Kovalchuk than Gaborik. Kovalchuk is a better player, he's tougher, he has shown better character in my eyes, and he doesn't get hurt all the time.

And, while I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but in my eyes, Gomez is highly overrated and not worth that contract at all. But to get the most use out of Gomez would be to give him an elite scorer to play with, which is something we haven't been able to give him yet. If you want to get at least some value out of that mammoth deal, then give him a guy to get the puck to that can score.

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Old
10-14-2008, 09:48 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
you don't know that.
Fair enough. I was thinking more in terms of short term, i.e., replacing Zherdev w/ Cherepanov if he earns a raise the Rangers can't afford OR having him replace Naslund 2 years from now.

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Old
10-14-2008, 09:53 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
you don't know that. Most people here thought Dubinsky would never be as good as he his now, in fact I remember some saying he is just a 3rd line player. I think that we have coul have three more top 6 players in the system. Anisimov, Grachev, and Hagelin. Stepan and Weise are wildcards, especially Stepan. out of all of the I think Hagelin will be the best, I just have this real special feeling about him, even though I only saw him play 2 or 3 times. Sorta like the feeling when we drafted Dubi. But I think he might have more pure skill.
I know it's a natural tendency to think. I just can't bring myself to worry about how are we going to replace a prospect. Yes it's a business but in this situation, I can't bring myself to think "Crap, our blue chipper is gone". I have faith in the Rangers that this will be handled.

The only thing that I have a hard time with is I think that had he come over to North America. The doctors and medical staff would appreciate the urgency of the situation. Did you guys see the youtube video? It is disturbing. Not even a stretcher to carry him off.

After watching the video, you may not care about how this affects the Rangers' prospect pool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WxWegGcGF8

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10-14-2008, 09:54 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
You could trade a first round pick, Rozsival, and prospects for Kovalchuk and then, hopefully, re-sign him before he hits the open market.
I appreciate your response, but we're in different worlds in terms of the team's future, so I'm going to bow out of this conversation right now.

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10-14-2008, 09:54 AM
  #39
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Fair enough. I was thinking more in terms of short term, i.e., replacing Zherdev w/ Cherepanov if he earns a raise the Rangers can't afford OR having him replace Naslund 2 years from now.
oh ok. Makes sense then. Hopefully we can pull up a few more surprises from the AHL. That or Korps can make a big jump. After all after this year he should be on the wing if Ani comes up.

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10-14-2008, 10:03 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I disagree.

Naslund's contract will be coming off the books just as Kovalchuk becomes a free agent. There are also contracts you can trade for Kovalchuk at the 2010 deadline. You'd like to think that by then, Sanguinetti will be in the NHL, which could make Rozsival expendable, which would take off a nice hefty $5 million from the books. You could trade a first round pick, Rozsival, and prospects for Kovalchuk and then, hopefully, re-sign him before he hits the open market.

And here's why I think it make sense:

Think about the make up of this team by the summer of 2010. An elite goaltender, a coach that players like to play for, a solid defense, and great character. A young team with, hopefully, some established young players who re just entering their prime (Lundqvist, Dubinsky, Staal, Zherdev, Callahan), nice veteran leadership in the form of Drury and Gomez and Redden. Solid role players like Betts. Some bright young players like Sangs and Anisimov who are just making their impact on the team.

Even if you have to give one or two of those guys away along with Rozsival to get Kovalchuk, this team would be one top notch scorer away from being one of the two or three best teams in the league. That's where Kovalchuk comes in. And the only guy on this team who I wouldn't trade for Kovalchuk would be Dubinsky, and of course Lundqvist. Dubi is going to be the heart and soul of this franchise, like a Graves, for a long time. But everyone else? I love Staal, I love Callahan, etc etc, but of course you deal them if you can get one of the 5 best offensive players in the game.

Plus, he gets to play with another center, Gomez, who excels at setting wingers up, like he did with Savard. And, Russians like NY. Trust me, I'm Russian. Brighton Beach is the largest Russian community in the world outside of the former Soviet Union. They want to be here.

Of course other things can happen, but I doubt Kovalchuk stays in Atlanta. They aren't going to be good by the time he's a UFA, and I just think it makes so much sense for the Rangers to find a way to make it work, even if they just wait till the 2010 summer when he is a free agent.

I'd much rather have Kovalchuk than Gaborik. Kovalchuk is a better player, he's tougher, he has shown better character in my eyes, and he doesn't get hurt all the time.

And, while I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but in my eyes, Gomez is highly overrated and not worth that contract at all. But to get the most use out of Gomez would be to give him an elite scorer to play with, which is something we haven't been able to give him yet. If you want to get at least some value out of that mammoth deal, then give him a guy to get the puck to that can score.
That was an excellent and very logical post. I totally agree with your perspective, I just wish we weren't all trying to drown out the pain of Cheraponov tragedy. I feel terrible whenever a young life is lost, but this is even more painful as so many of us were looking forward to his opportunity to shine on Broadway. I only hope his family can take solace in the fact that he died doing what he loved doing.....playing Hockey. I cannot imagine, nor do I want to, what it is like burying your child, and my thoughts and prayers go out to his family.

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Old
10-14-2008, 10:07 AM
  #41
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I think that as exceptional as Cherepanov was expected to be, we're forgetting that we might have overly anticipated his impact. Losing Cherepanov is, in hockey terms, much the same as Blackburn's nerve damage ending his career. In both cases, we had a great idea of what we might be getting, but we never were afforded the chance to find out. That hole opened an opportunity for Henrik.

Now I'm not saying we have anyone ready to be the system's "new" super-prospect, but I think we'll be able to adjust.

I think as a team the Rangers might take a harder look at some of the elite wingers that may come available (like Gaborik, Kovalchuk and potentially Hossa), but since we spent on D expecting to have a group of inexpensive young forwards, we may see the team desperately try to move Rozsival or Redden in the offseason.

Still, I think the Rangers come down to three things, Lundqvist, Renney, and 12 forwards giving themselves over to Renney's system.

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10-14-2008, 11:10 AM
  #42
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I think this organization will be hard pressed to replace Cherepanov, if only in the "What could have been" element. With the global economy on the down-turn, I can't foresee the salary cap spiking enough to acquire a high-priced free agent like Kovalchuk or Gaborik.

We're going to have a hard enough time resigning our top players, look at all of the guys coming off the books this year and their current cap hits:

Nik Zherdev (2.5 mil)
Petr Prucha (1.6)
Lauri Korpikoski (1.018)
Pat Rissmiller (1 mil)
Dan Fritsche (.875)
Freddy Sjostrom (.840)
Brandon Dubinsky (.633)
Blair Betts (.615)
Nigel Dawes (.588)
Ryan Callahan (.575)
Colton Orr (.537)
Paul Mara (1.95)
Dimitri Kalinin (2.1)

RFA's in 2010:
Marc Staal
Dan Girardi

Now, out of those, you've got to assume Korpikoski, Zherdev, Dubinsky, Staal, Girardi, Betts, Dawes, Callahan and Orr will all be resigned. Sjostrom is likely as well, while Prucha, Rissmiller and Fritsche are borderline.

So, here are some comparable signings:

Brandon Dubinsky
Comparable to: Patrick O'Sullivan, LA Kings. (3yrs/2.925 per)
I expect Dubi to have a very similar year to what O'Sullivan had last year, perhaps even better if he can maintain this ridiculous pace he's on now. Sully put up 22g and 31a last year in LA.

Nik Zherdev
Comparable to: Alexander Semin, Washington (2yrs/4.6 per)
While Semin is a bit more of a "shoot first" player, and Zherdev is a little more of a playmaker, I think the two are very similar. Semin had a huge season in the final year of his ELC, and I think Zherdev is poised to do the same. I'd look for Sather to offer up a 3 year deal with similar numbers to Semin's contract with a promise of more when Drury or Gomez are coming out of their deals.

Ryan Callahan
Comparable to: Colby Armstrong, Atlanta (2yr/1.2 per)
Very similar players here. A bit undersized, but very high energy and scrappy. Can PK, drop the mitts and are good for probably 30-ish points per season on the 3rd line.

Marc Staal
Comparable to: Brent Burns, Minnesota (3yrs/3.55 per)
This one is kind of speculative, but I think Staal could wind up anywhere between 3.5 and 4.5 million per year. He's really poised to be a top-echelon shut-down d-man in this league, and at his age, he is a very valuable asset to any team. I think his lack of offense might hurt his value a tad, but with Shea Weber making 4.5 mil for the next 3 years, he could earn a big pay-day.

Dan Girardi
Comparable to: Trevor Daley, Dallas (3yr/2.3 per)
Girardi's a good top-4 guy when he's on his game, but he's still young, much like Daley. Girardi has a lot of untapped offensive potential in his game, and he's showing it so far this season. He could wind up making more.

I'll stop there, but you see my point. With just those five players getting raises, we're going to be hard pressed to fill a roster of 22 or 23 guys, let alone add a fat salary like Kovalchuk to the mix unless the cap goes up significantly. Even if Sangs busts out this year in Hartford and Rozsival is moved, and Naslund retires after his contract is up, you already have several players on the roster eating into that cap space with their new contracts.

Long winded, but it's a very slow day at work.

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10-14-2008, 11:12 AM
  #43
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it doesn't change anything. we still have young players moving. and i think they are hoping to lock up dubi and Z to long term plans already, even if this didn't happen.

i think they were looking at nasland to hold down his spot till he was 100% ready.

that being said, i don't see much changing.

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10-14-2008, 02:11 PM
  #44
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10-14-2008, 02:44 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I think this organization will be hard pressed to replace Cherepanov, if only in the "What could have been" element. With the global economy on the down-turn, I can't foresee the salary cap spiking enough to acquire a high-priced free agent like Kovalchuk or Gaborik.

We're going to have a hard enough time resigning our top players, look at all of the guys coming off the books this year and their current cap hits:

Nik Zherdev (2.5 mil)
Petr Prucha (1.6)
Lauri Korpikoski (1.018)
Pat Rissmiller (1 mil)
Dan Fritsche (.875)
Freddy Sjostrom (.840)
Brandon Dubinsky (.633)
Blair Betts (.615)
Nigel Dawes (.588)
Ryan Callahan (.575)
Colton Orr (.537)
Paul Mara (1.95)
Dimitri Kalinin (2.1)

RFA's in 2010:
Marc Staal
Dan Girardi

Now, out of those, you've got to assume Korpikoski, Zherdev, Dubinsky, Staal, Girardi, Betts, Dawes, Callahan and Orr will all be resigned. Sjostrom is likely as well, while Prucha, Rissmiller and Fritsche are borderline.

So, here are some comparable signings:

Brandon Dubinsky
Comparable to: Patrick O'Sullivan, LA Kings. (3yrs/2.925 per)
I expect Dubi to have a very similar year to what O'Sullivan had last year, perhaps even better if he can maintain this ridiculous pace he's on now. Sully put up 22g and 31a last year in LA.

Nik Zherdev
Comparable to: Alexander Semin, Washington (2yrs/4.6 per)
While Semin is a bit more of a "shoot first" player, and Zherdev is a little more of a playmaker, I think the two are very similar. Semin had a huge season in the final year of his ELC, and I think Zherdev is poised to do the same. I'd look for Sather to offer up a 3 year deal with similar numbers to Semin's contract with a promise of more when Drury or Gomez are coming out of their deals.

Ryan Callahan
Comparable to: Colby Armstrong, Atlanta (2yr/1.2 per)
Very similar players here. A bit undersized, but very high energy and scrappy. Can PK, drop the mitts and are good for probably 30-ish points per season on the 3rd line.

Marc Staal
Comparable to: Brent Burns, Minnesota (3yrs/3.55 per)
This one is kind of speculative, but I think Staal could wind up anywhere between 3.5 and 4.5 million per year. He's really poised to be a top-echelon shut-down d-man in this league, and at his age, he is a very valuable asset to any team. I think his lack of offense might hurt his value a tad, but with Shea Weber making 4.5 mil for the next 3 years, he could earn a big pay-day.

Dan Girardi
Comparable to: Trevor Daley, Dallas (3yr/2.3 per)
Girardi's a good top-4 guy when he's on his game, but he's still young, much like Daley. Girardi has a lot of untapped offensive potential in his game, and he's showing it so far this season. He could wind up making more.

I'll stop there, but you see my point. With just those five players getting raises, we're going to be hard pressed to fill a roster of 22 or 23 guys, let alone add a fat salary like Kovalchuk to the mix unless the cap goes up significantly. Even if Sangs busts out this year in Hartford and Rozsival is moved, and Naslund retires after his contract is up, you already have several players on the roster eating into that cap space with their new contracts.

Long winded, but it's a very slow day at work.
This was along the lines of what I was thinking a few days ago. We have too many high priced guys. When these young players come in seeking a raise, and deservedly so, we're going to have a tough time fitting them under the cap. I think the management team is going to have to some very creative maneuvering, and may have to deal off some good young assets in return for draft picks or prospects or face losing them via offer sheets. The're going to have to do that or put a package of good young talent together and make a play at one of the true stars in this league. These albatross contracts are going to be awfully tough to get out from under in 3-4 years.

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10-14-2008, 04:19 PM
  #46
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nothing changes...

as mentioned, there's no guarantee that Chere would've excelled in the NHL. There's also no guarantee that if he did very well for Omsk that they wouldn't throw money at him that would prevent him from playing in the NHL. So many variables and the organization needs to move on without him, obviously. It does hurt the potential on the wings, but the organization is stacked on defense and perhaps can move a defenseman for a winger (much like moving Toots for Zherdev and Fritsche for Backman).

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10-14-2008, 04:27 PM
  #47
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Can we still trade Drury for a draft pick? lol.. Some other team can use his 25g seasons and his "intangiables"(sp?) on their team for 7 million dollars. Lmao.. I still cant believe we pay this ****** that much money for doing what Dubinsky can prolly do. Lol.. TRADE HIM ASAPP!

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10-14-2008, 04:35 PM
  #48
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Can we still trade Drury for a draft pick? lol.. Some other team can use his 25g seasons and his "intangiables"(sp?) on their team for 7 million dollars. Lmao.. I still cant believe we pay this ****** that much money for doing what Dubinsky can prolly do. Lol.. TRADE levski87 ASAPP!
Fixed.

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10-14-2008, 04:41 PM
  #49
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I feel bad saying it, but i feel Girardi and Mara might now be here after their contracts expire... maybe Mara more than Girardi because of age, but since they aren't home grown (drafted) the brass might feel a little more connection to staal and sanguinetti. look for some of them to be moved come trade period, or just let go at seasons end. Just a feeling cause of all the D we have stacked in the farm, and how much we need to get offense going from the wings.

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10-14-2008, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyNX27 View Post
I feel bad saying it, but i feel Girardi and Mara might now be here after their contracts expire... maybe Mara more than Girardi because of age, but since they aren't home grown (drafted) the brass might feel a little more connection to staal and sanguinetti. look for some of them to be moved come trade period, or just let go at seasons end. Just a feeling cause of all the D we have stacked in the farm, and how much we need to get offense going from the wings.
i hope that you are wrong about that. I would rather see Kalinin and Rozsival go on defense

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