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Kyle Chipchura sent to Hamilton

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Old
10-16-2008, 08:25 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Price has already shown he could dominate at the AHL level.... Pac and Weber haven't shown that yet.
Not only that they wouldn't get any playing time let alone a roster spot. Our team has better players that can play in the NHL NOW. You don't put rookies on a solid contender just for the sake of having young players. Like they say, the grass is greener on the other side; well I'll tell you what, it sure as hell isn't in this case.

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10-16-2008, 08:27 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Not only that they wouldn't get any playing time let alone a roster spot. Our team has better players that can play in the NHL NOW. You don't put rookies on a solid contender just for the sake of having young players. Like they say, the grass is greener on the other side; well I'll tell you what, it sure as hell isn't in this case.
Exactly... replace Dandenault with MaxPac???

Why so he can play 4th line minutes with no PP time for 1/4 of our games and sit in the press box for the rest.

Yeah that will help him develop big league offensive skills.

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10-16-2008, 08:27 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
We got the point already on Chipchura and Higgins...

Do you have these posts saved somewhere on your harddrive and just cut and paste them to HF... cause every time its the same thing.
your patience is remarkable Beak

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10-16-2008, 08:39 PM
  #79
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I disagree regarding Weber and Pacioretty, as both showed during the pre-season that they are ready. In my opinion, both should be in Montreal right now.
They both had great camps but they also showed they both have room to improve their game. They also had their great camps against some players who are also in the AHL as well.
Both these guys will be top line players for the Canadiens but they can't develop into this getting fourth line minutes in the NHL. I will be at the next two games in Hamilton and look forward to seeing them play.

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10-16-2008, 08:40 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Erika Kostitsyn View Post
Finally, Chipchura is now where he belongs..... In the AHL !! His look on his face yesterday was just.... well.... sad....

Only good news is that he will make the Bulldogs a little bit stronger, which is good for our prospects.

I don't see any future for this guy with this team. There are way better players coming up next year. A slow defensive centerman that sucks at face-off ?! No thanks !!

I just hope that Gainey trade him while he still has some value left...

Include him in a package deal or something, because he isn't going to make this team anyways (this year of next) IMO.

I really like the Gaborik idea... something like Higgins + Chipchura + PK Subban might be a start...


You do realize that he "belongs" there mostly 'cause of his contract situation. As far as the other way better players coming up next year....who are we talking about here? At the center position? Maxwell? Maybe but we don't know how he'll develop this year and he might be our 3rd line centerman while Chip could still be our 4th. Who else? Lehoux? Obviously not...White? Won't be ready. So at the center position the only guy that could have a spot is Maxwell. So there are not better GUYS but there might a better GUY....we'll see if he's indeed better and if they'll fight for the same spot.

As far as slow defensive centerman that sucks at faceoffs....well he can improve his faceoff ability...Lapierre seems to have been able to do it.....and Chipchura shouldn't be more or less intelligent than him. As far as still claiming that it was a waste of a pick, while I didn't want him and preferred Green at the time, if the guy is able to make us land Gaborik.....it wouldn't be that waste of a pick after all.....but I fail to see how he'll be able to do it since he sucks so much....

As far as having some value, I will never understand that. If he's having some value to other teams, he'll still have some value to our team as well. But who would want a slow defensive centerman that sucks in the faceoff circle.

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10-16-2008, 08:45 PM
  #81
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Gainey has a reputation for testing players internal fortitude by sending them to Hamilton after getting a taste of the NHL...to see if they show the hunger to come back up.

he's done it in the past here and Marc Bureau and enrico Ciccone who played for Gainey in Minny said he often did that with 2nd year NHl players.

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10-16-2008, 09:01 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by HIGGINS! View Post
Simply stunning. Holy ****ing hell.
Wow... is there a way we can put Erika quoting on ignore list?

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10-17-2008, 12:32 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Erika Kostitsyn View Post
I know, most people bashed me for saying that Chipchura is A GEM!!

Thank you, Bob.

Your humble servant.
Are you going to say you didn't mean this? It would break our hearts if you didn't.

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10-17-2008, 07:13 AM
  #84
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I thought that the way he played in pre-season earned him at least one regular season game tryout.

Not that I think he should replace any of the following permanently right now, but I think one of Lapierre, Dandy or Begin should have been sat out for a game to give Chips a shot.

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10-17-2008, 08:40 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
You do realize that he "belongs" there mostly 'cause of his contract situation. As far as the other way better players coming up next year....who are we talking about here? At the center position? Maxwell? Maybe but we don't know how he'll develop this year and he might be our 3rd line centerman while Chip could still be our 4th. Who else? Lehoux? Obviously not...White? Won't be ready. So at the center position the only guy that could have a spot is Maxwell. So there are not better GUYS but there might a better GUY....we'll see if he's indeed better and if they'll fight for the same spot.

As far as slow defensive centerman that sucks at faceoffs....well he can improve his faceoff ability...Lapierre seems to have been able to do it.....and Chipchura shouldn't be more or less intelligent than him. As far as still claiming that it was a waste of a pick, while I didn't want him and preferred Green at the time, if the guy is able to make us land Gaborik.....it wouldn't be that waste of a pick after all.....but I fail to see how he'll be able to do it since he sucks so much....

As far as having some value, I will never understand that. If he's having some value to other teams, he'll still have some value to our team as well. But who would want a slow defensive centerman that sucks in the faceoff circle.
It's an arguement that always confuses me. We see it a lot, poster says player A sucks, let's trade him. The assumption is that rival gms are basically stupid and want to fill their teams with players who suck. My personal favorite is that how other teams don't really want to win, so they'll take 3 mediocre players for 1 good one.

Regarding Chipchura specifically, I don't know how the org. regards him right now. They seem more invested in Lapierre and not inclined to clear space for Chipchura.

They don't 'owe' him for being a 1st rounder, so they do what they see fit.

I'm curious, did anyone here see much of him prior to the achilles injury ? Is he pretty well the player that western hockey fans expected at draft time ?

We talk offensive upside,faceoffs, mobility, but nobody in th eorg comments so I'm curious as to where he stands. Obviously on the outside looking in, but due to lack of spots, or have they simply decided he can't play the role envisioned ?


As for Erika's joy, when a good kid not making it causes you to celebrate, waving your hands in the air because you so love being right, you've got a long way to go, kiddo.

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10-17-2008, 09:10 AM
  #86
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If there is a mobility issue with him, what is he doing to address it? Is he improving over time? If so, and it turns out that he's coachable in this and other regards, just view him as a work-in-progress. It's clear that a guy like Lats felt the pressure to improve, and acted accordingly. It's apparent that Chip has other qualities that justify being somewhat patient with him.

It's great for the Habs to be in this situation. Ideally, I'd like for Gainey to keep much of this core intact, and sign the likes of Komisarek, Tanguay, Koivu, Kovalev and Plekaneks, during the course of the season, at the risk of breaking his pattern of not resigning players during the season. If Chip forces his way into this core, more power to him.

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10-17-2008, 09:21 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by GermanyMontrealExpat View Post
If there is a mobility issue with him, what is he doing to address it? Is he improving over time? If so, and it turns out that he's coachable in this and other regards, just view him as a work-in-progress. It's clear that a guy like Lats felt the pressure to improve, and acted accordingly. It's apparent that Chip has other qualities that justify being somewhat patient with him.

It's great for the Habs to be in this situation. Ideally, I'd like for Gainey to keep much of this core intact, and sign the likes of Komisarek, Tanguay, Koivu, Kovalev and Plekaneks, during the course of the season, at the risk of breaking his pattern of not resigning players during the season. If Chip forces his way into this core, more power to him.
I was watching Philly th eother night and while they have all kinds of good players, I get the feeling that there's some weird matches of style and talent. Guys like Briere,Gagne and Carter seem ill suited to linemates at times. The Hartell's and Upshall's are good palyers but I always have the feeling that they have guys on the same line who don't play the same game.

You can argue that you need ,checker/playmaker/shooter to balance lines, but I think that hockey has changed and the old formula doesn't really apply.

All of this rambling to say that while Chips can play in the league, what he does may not match what th eteam needed. He's a good enough player to play on an NHL line with S.Kost and Higgins, if that was the case, but they wanted to keep a level of pure offense on 3 lines, so Chip's spot is gone.

I got thinking after hearing someone make a comment about his achilles injury during the season after his draft year. Football players seldom recover from this, usually rb's who lose their quickness, but I don't know how this translates to skating.

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10-17-2008, 09:57 AM
  #88
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The funiest thing about it was he was fighting Lappy for the 4th spot. IMO, Lappy had 2 adventige:
1.NHL contract
2.Win more face off

Both player with different attribute fighting for the same spot. What's funny here?
well it's a no win for us fan cause either Chipp or Lappy, this team still looks great.

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10-17-2008, 10:31 AM
  #89
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I hope Chipchura doesn't get too discouraged over this. I like what he brings to the table in terms of current abilities as well as future potential. It's a shame he doesn't fit on this deep team, but I hope he just hangs on because his time will come.

It's gotta suck being a prospect in his situation. Probably ready for the NHL, but playing in an organization that isn't in a position to give you that chance right now, yet they don't really want to trade you either.

At least in Hamilton, he can play a ton. Sitting in the press box in Montreal is pointless.

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10-17-2008, 12:29 PM
  #90
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At least in Hamilton, he can play a ton. Sitting in the press box in Montreal is pointless.
The nice thing about that too is that Hamilton should have some offensive balance this season, which means he get to use his playmaking abilities unlike last year, where in a checking role he didn't have the linemates because the depth wasn't there.

Off the the Hammer for the first home game tonight. I'm really excited about the Dogs this year as they should parallel the Habs style somewhat with a bunch of quick guys, a developing power forward or two, and some solid veteran toughness.

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10-17-2008, 02:02 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by GermanyMontrealExpat View Post
If there is a mobility issue with him, what is he doing to address it? Is he improving over time? If so, and it turns out that he's coachable in this and other regards, just view him as a work-in-progress. It's clear that a guy like Lats felt the pressure to improve, and acted accordingly. It's apparent that Chip has other qualities that justify being somewhat patient with him.

It's great for the Habs to be in this situation. Ideally, I'd like for Gainey to keep much of this core intact, and sign the likes of Komisarek, Tanguay, Koivu, Kovalev and Plekaneks, during the course of the season, at the risk of breaking his pattern of not resigning players during the season. If Chip forces his way into this core, more power to him.
I liked what I saw from him in the preseason in regards to his skating/mobility/foot speed. His speed isn't that bad but he needs to work on his first step quickness. That said he's great at protecting the puck as he's got good strength to go with his good smarts. (if he only had Lappy's wheels!) I'll likely see almost every Hamilton game so I'll keep an eye out for him and see how he looks over the course of the year. Of course I expect to see him back with the Habs at some point, his cap hit hurts though (which should be adjusted over the summer to something more friendly)

I'd also love to see him work on getting more power in his shot, although I can't say I noticed his shot in the preseason off the top of my head, but it's been a concern imo in the past.

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Old
10-17-2008, 02:12 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
You must be on easy street, 30K means something to me. I'm disapointed as I think he can play. It's purely numbers though. There are guys that the staff feels do some things that he doesn't I guess.

We have posters here that like Lapierre's energy and speed, some that hate th eguy, some like Chipchura, some don't. Right now, only one of them was going to stay, and Lapierre was chosen. I think it's probably a tempo sort of thing as Lapierre is supposed to forecheck, create some pressure etc.

Again, I prefer Chipchura but no one asked me. I don't see any fair,unfair really. You want to see unfair, look at the guys Detroit sent down, Helm and Keino [?].
No one cared to correct mcphee? Was it fear of his wrath or did no one want to hurt his ego? Or do you guys laugh behind his back at the old guy making mistakes? Shame on the Habs board...and maybe a pox on them too.

But of course I agree with your assessment. It was clear we had 24 forwards and it came to Lapierre and Chipchura. I'm like you in that in that I prefer Chipchura but maybe that's why I'm front of a computer and not GM of an NHL team. And you also have to give credit to Laps for how he's played so far this year. He's been great in faceoffs, excellent on the PK and solid on the forecheck. His playmaking abilities are still below par, but as an energy 4th liner, he's doing what he needs to do to be an effective NHLer.

And also agree about Detroit's situation. From what I saw of Ville Leino there was no question he was NHL material. And Pierre Maguire's constant reminders are annoying, but he's right; Darren Helm should be playing in the NHL for sure. Look at the prospect depth Detroit has in Grand Rapids, it's just solid:

Leino, Helm, Abdelkater, Emmerton, Pyett and Kindl on defence.

Then they've surrounded them with solid vets like Downey, Haydar, Wilson. If you look at the situation in Hamilton it's somewhat similar but we're a bit younger. So I think this is one more indication that we're headed towards being a solid organization, top to bottom, that can compete on a yearly basis.

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10-17-2008, 02:23 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Quiet Robert View Post
No one cared to correct mcphee? Was it fear of his wrath or did no one want to hurt his ego? Or do you guys laugh behind his back at the old guy making mistakes? Shame on the Habs board...and maybe a pox on them too.

But of course I agree with your assessment. It was clear we had 24 forwards and it came to Lapierre and Chipchura. I'm like you in that in that I prefer Chipchura but maybe that's why I'm front of a computer and not GM of an NHL team. And you also have to give credit to Laps for how he's played so far this year. He's been great in faceoffs, excellent on the PK and solid on the forecheck. His playmaking abilities are still below par, but as an energy 4th liner, he's doing what he needs to do to be an effective NHLer.

And also agree about Detroit's situation. From what I saw of Ville Leino there was no question he was NHL material. And Pierre Maguire's constant reminders are annoying, but he's right; Darren Helm should be playing in the NHL for sure. Look at the prospect depth Detroit has in Grand Rapids, it's just solid:

Leino, Helm, Abdelkater, Emmerton, Pyett and Kindl on defence.

Then they've surrounded them with solid vets like Downey, Haydar, Wilson. If you look at the situation in Hamilton it's somewhat similar but we're a bit younger. So I think this is one more indication that we're headed towards being a solid organization, top to bottom, that can compete on a yearly basis.
Precisely. I think when you draft players well over a consistant amount of time the depth is going to cause some hard decisions. Players that are ready for the NHL are going to be sent down because the spots are far between. While it is hard for some people to swallow having prospects that are ready sent down, it definitely increases the level of competition both down in the AHL with players wanting to make jumps, but as well up top with players wanting to keep their spots. Personally, I think D'agonstini is ready to play a top 9 forward role with this club, but there is just no room right now to fit him in, and he isn't even on top of the depth chart in terms of call ups. Some posters are just going to have to learn to let go of some of the pro-prospect way of looking at things, because Gainey will go with the veterans until they prove that they are not able to keep the spot. One example last year was Ryder, he was slumping and overall playing horrible, Sergei Kostitsyn won the spot from him and rightfully so. We are a contender so we need a veteran prescense to help out with leadership, your not going to see the Begins, Dandenaults ousted unless a young player can play better effective hockey and MORE than them; let alone the top 9.

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10-17-2008, 05:22 PM
  #94
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too bad Chip did not have a chance to play yet, i like him but for now the roster is stacked, i would see him over Dandy for sure but the guy have to play for his salary...

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10-17-2008, 05:46 PM
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By the time we get to the post-season, Chipchura will be in the lineup.

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10-17-2008, 05:50 PM
  #96
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No one cared to correct mcphee? Was it fear of his wrath or did no one want to hurt his ego? Or do you guys laugh behind his back at the old guy making mistakes? Shame on the Habs board...and maybe a pox on them too.

But of course I agree with your assessment. It was clear we had 24 forwards and it came to Lapierre and Chipchura. I'm like you in that in that I prefer Chipchura but maybe that's why I'm front of a computer and not GM of an NHL team. And you also have to give credit to Laps for how he's played so far this year. He's been great in faceoffs, excellent on the PK and solid on the forecheck. His playmaking abilities are still below par, but as an energy 4th liner, he's doing what he needs to do to be an effective NHLer.

And also agree about Detroit's situation. From what I saw of Ville Leino there was no question he was NHL material. And Pierre Maguire's constant reminders are annoying, but he's right; Darren Helm should be playing in the NHL for sure. Look at the prospect depth Detroit has in Grand Rapids, it's just solid:

Leino, Helm, Abdelkater, Emmerton, Pyett and Kindl on defence.

Then they've surrounded them with solid vets like Downey, Haydar, Wilson. If you look at the situation in Hamilton it's somewhat similar but we're a bit younger. So I think this is one more indication that we're headed towards being a solid organization, top to bottom, that can compete on a yearly basis.

I thought it was 50/50 I was wrong an dfigured someone would gleefully correct me. I'd be pretty upset if no one corrects me in the same way my Dad gets away with saying he was lying prostrate on the floor.

It's one of those situations where a coach takes on a project, and the staff is taking on Lapierre. I heard something, or read something about Carbo commenting on how he has to slow down when he has the puck, pace his game a bit.

I wish Chipchura was getting the same on the job training, but we have no way of knowing what Muller and co. have worked on with him, and what they've observed.

I think the fact that [assuming it's true] he seems to be pissed is a good thing. He should be pissed. It's his career. Maybe he'll play with a chip [bad pun] on his shoulder.

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10-17-2008, 06:10 PM
  #97
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based on on-ice performances, he doesn't have a spot... he does not DESERVE one...

chip had a very, very, very disapointing camp... , no matter how often his balls get licked by journalists and/or people who think that because he was captain of the canadian junior hockey team, we should hail him as our saviour.

he has a very interesting potential...but he has to understand that his hands are going to have to get dirty if he wants to make it to the nhl. He's no 1rst line potential... and in my humble opinion , he could * could* could* be one of the best 3rd line centers in the nhl one day ... at best.

he has a great offensive upside compared to lapierre, and that's why it was him who started the season here last year... but at the moment ... I really think lapierre knows his role better and that's why he is the better 4th line center between the two...

to be honest, just thinking about the fact that a lot of ppl see him as a good 2nd line center makes me laugh ... because even if we ever need a 2nd line center rightaway... maxwell is miles in front of chipchura... for those who feel the need to argue on this one, just call me if chipchura ends up playing with pacioretty and dagostini.

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10-17-2008, 06:14 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
chip had a very, very, very disapointing camp...
Disappointing Camp.
Strong pre-season (He was the 3rd best Hab against Detroit, to only Higgins and Markov).

Player performance importance goes by:

Post-Season Performance (Highest)
Season Performance (High)
Pre-Season Performance (Low)
Camp Performance (Lowest)

Him having a strong pre-season trumps his camp, so don't bring it up as some silly point.

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10-17-2008, 06:24 PM
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Disappointing Camp.
Strong pre-season (He was the 3rd best Hab against Detroit, to only Higgins and Markov).

Player performance importance goes by:

Post-Season Performance (Highest)
Season Performance (High)
Pre-Season Performance (Low)
Camp Performance (Lowest)

Him having a strong pre-season trumps his camp, so don't bring it up as some silly point.
I'm not saying he is not a good player... but he showed up here and played bellow expectations... otherwise I see no reason why lapierre is still our 4th line center...

I think sending him in hamilton is a good kick in the butt from the organisation ... and its very intelligent considering that they showed they cared about him by keeping him arround and on the roster ... the way he has been dealt with is very good I find...

I wish for him to rebound ... no doubt about it... but he wasn't good enough this year...

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10-17-2008, 06:41 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
I'm not saying he is not a good player... but he showed up here and played bellow expectations... otherwise I see no reason why lapierre is still our 4th line center...

I think sending him in hamilton is a good kick in the butt from the organisation ... and its very intelligent considering that they showed they cared about him by keeping him arround and on the roster ... the way he has been dealt with is very good I find...

I wish for him to rebound ... no doubt about it... but he wasn't good enough this year...
well a two way contract vs a one way contract imo is a good place to start. Chipchura also has a cap hit around 950K, Lappy has a cap hit just north of 650K, another good reason. Plus Chipchura is still in the development stage. Lappy, Pleks A.Kostitsyn, all spent parts of 3 seasons in Hamilton, it didn't seem to hurt them, add to that, Chipchura lost a year of development in juniors to injuries.

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Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
based on on-ice performances, he doesn't have a spot... he does not DESERVE one...

chip had a very, very, very disapointing camp
... , no matter how often his balls get licked by journalists and/or people who think that because he was captain of the canadian junior hockey team, we should hail him as our saviour.

to be honest, just thinking about the fact that a lot of ppl see him as a good 2nd line center makes me laugh ... because even if we ever need a 2nd line center rightaway... maxwell is miles in front of chipchura... for those who feel the need to argue on this one, just call me if chipchura ends up playing with pacioretty and dagostini.
I guess we didn't watch the same preseason games, I thought he looked good in the preseason. As for people that see him as a good 2nd line center, I haven't heard that one, he's been pegged as a future 3rd line center since he was drafted. Maxwell imo is ahead of him but they are different players and bring different things. It's nice to have both in the system imo.

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