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Old
10-17-2008, 05:48 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
I'm not saying he is not a good player... but he showed up here and played bellow expectations... otherwise I see no reason why lapierre is still our 4th line center...
I think sending him in hamilton is a good kick in the butt from the organisation ... and its very intelligent considering that they showed they cared about him by keeping him arround and on the roster ... the way he has been dealt with is very good I find...

I wish for him to rebound ... no doubt about it... but he wasn't good enough this year...
Lappy is the 4th line centre because Chips is the only one who can go to hamilton without clearing waivers... and the only one who has a two way contract.

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10-17-2008, 05:53 PM
  #102
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I thought it was 50/50 I was wrong an dfigured someone would gleefully correct me. I'd be pretty upset if no one corrects me in the same way my Dad gets away with saying he was lying prostrate on the floor.
At least he doesn't lie prostate on the floor.

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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
It's one of those situations where a coach takes on a project, and the staff is taking on Lapierre. I heard something, or read something about Carbo commenting on how he has to slow down when he has the puck, pace his game a bit.

I wish Chipchura was getting the same on the job training, but we have no way of knowing what Muller and co. have worked on with him, and what they've observed.

I think the fact that [assuming it's true] he seems to be pissed is a good thing. He should be pissed. It's his career. Maybe he'll play with a chip [bad pun] on his shoulder.
More importantly, not wearing a tie was a sign of protest against the organization and Carbo in particular, who is known to have a fondness for ugly ties. It's probably what got him sent down.

I wonder if it came down to faceoffs. I do think Chipchura improved in that department but he's still inconsistent in an area that should be a strength for a 3rd or 4th line player.

Lapierre seems to really be understanding his role as an aggressive 4th liner, and in that sense he is probably better suited than Chipchura between guys like Begin/Kosto/Laraque.

But there's also the contract issue. Chipchura is the only guy we can send down without clearing waivers, so he had to know he could end up being the odd man out.

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Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
chip had a very, very, very disapointing camp...
Are you including preseason in this? Because I thought he played excellent hockey in the preseason games. His faceoffs weren't up to par, but other than there weren't many glaring holes in his game. (His skating looked much better imo.) Hopefully he works on his faceoffs and gets his offensive game going in Hamilton.

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10-17-2008, 06:14 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
well a two way contract vs a one way contract imo is a good place to start. Chipchura also has a cap hit around 950K, Lappy has a cap hit just north of 650K, another good reason. Plus Chipchura is still in the development stage. .

I guess we didn't watch the same preseason games, I thought he looked good in the preseason. As for people that see him as a good 2nd line center, I haven't heard that one, he's been pegged as a future 3rd line center since he was drafted. Maxwell imo is ahead of him but they are different players and bring different things. It's nice to have both in the system imo.
In my humble opinion, BG doesnt keep lapierre in mtl because of his contract ... I don't buy that. if he was good enough to start here, he would have started the season at laps place...

there are plenty of ways to create space for him, starting with dandy on waivers, lapierre could have been 13th forward in that case... ect ...

I totally agree he needs to develop more... I never said otherwise... and I wish for him to rebound... cause he has more potentail than lapierre... but I think he knows that , instead of just working twice as hard than anybody to get a reg. spot. ...

A lot of people thought he was 2nd line potential ... it was even discussed on rds , ckac ...ect ... last year ... , that's beside the fact that a lot of posters here have reffered to him as a 2nd line potential... if you werent aware of that... well that part of the post wasn't important...

He did look good in preseason, but that obviously wasn't enough ... I got the feeling he played well during the detroit game, but that was it...

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Originally Posted by Quiet Robert View Post
At least he doesn't lie prostate on the floor.



More importantly, not wearing a tie was a sign of protest against the organization and Carbo in particular, who is known to have a fondness for ugly ties. It's probably what got him sent down.

I wonder if it came down to faceoffs. I do think Chipchura improved in that department but he's still inconsistent in an area that should be a strength for a 3rd or 4th line player.

Lapierre seems to really be understanding his role as an aggressive 4th liner, and in that sense he is probably better suited than Chipchura between guys like Begin/Kosto/Laraque.

But there's also the contract issue. Chipchura is the only guy we can send down without clearing waivers, so he had to know he could end up being the odd man out.



Are you including preseason in this? Because I thought he played excellent hockey in the preseason games. His faceoffs weren't up to par, but other than there weren't many glaring holes in his game. (His skating looked much better imo.) Hopefully he works on his faceoffs and gets his offensive game going in Hamilton.
I find too ... like I said... against detroit he played well I found... but his overall camp wasn't what we ( and probably the organisation too ) expected... so that's why I labeled his camp as being very disapointing.... cause the expectations were there...


Last edited by Beakermania*: 10-17-2008 at 06:19 PM.
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10-17-2008, 06:19 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
In my humble opinion, BG doesnt keep lapierre in mtl because of his contract ... I don't buy that. if he was good enough to start here, he would have started the season at laps place...

there are plenty of ways to create space for him, starting with dandy on waivers, lapierre could have been 13th forward in that case... ect ...

I totally agree he needs to develop more... I never said otherwise... and I wish for him to rebound... cause he has more potentail than lapierre... but I think he knows that , instead of just working twice as hard than anybody to get a reg. spot. ...

A lot of people thought he was 2nd line potential ... it was even discussed on rds , ckac ...ect ... last year ... , that's beside the fact that a lot of posters here have reffered to him as a 2nd line potential... if you werent aware of that... well that part of the post wasn't important...

He did look good in preseason, but that obviously wasn't enough ... I got the feeling he played well during the detroit game, but that was it...
I think there is an argument that they like Dandy's ability to be both forward and defence... and that he is a better option in the pressbox than Chipchura/Lappierre. They were gonna keep him for those reasons.

I also think the waiver thing was a big deal... no need to lose an asset for nothing if you don't have to... that was bigger than the contract status.

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10-17-2008, 06:20 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Lappy is the 4th line centre because Chips is the only one who can go to hamilton without clearing waivers... and the only one who has a two way contract.
I don't buy that beaker.... do you really mean that?

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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
I think there is an argument that they like Dandy's ability to be both forward and defence... and that he is a better option in the pressbox than Chipchura/Lappierre. They were gonna keep him for those reasons.

I also think the waiver thing was a big deal... no need to lose an asset for nothing if you don't have to... that was bigger than the contract status.
I think they have that in brisebois... if we need a forward ...it would be a pleasure to give some time to some of the hamilton boys...


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10-17-2008, 06:24 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
I don't buy that beaker.... do you really mean that?
I believe that if there was an option where they could continue the battle for the fourth line spot; i think the team would take it. However there isn't that option right now.

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10-17-2008, 06:42 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
In my humble opinion, BG doesnt keep lapierre in mtl because of his contract ... I don't buy that. if he was good enough to start here, he would have started the season at laps place...

there are plenty of ways to create space for him, starting with dandy on waivers, lapierre could have been 13th forward in that case... ...
It's not just a contract but it's a place to start. Think back to when they sent A.Kostitsyn down to Hamilton for the 3rd time, imo he was ready for the NHL but it was a numbers game, and Kostitsyn ended up in Hamilton despite being NHL ready imo (he went on to be one of the top players in the AHL that year)

There are plenty of ways to create space for him and Dandenault is a good starting place but why make any moves when you can just as easily send Chip to the AHL especially when you start the year with 3 regulars out of the line and Dandy can play both forward and D. Add to that, we are talking about one of the top teams in the NHL, contrast to previous years when we would roll out 3-4 rookies each season, this year we need to have some vets around and can afford to keep the rookies in the AHL as it's not like Chipchura would be hurt by another year in the AHL but it doesn't mean he's not good, or doesn't have NHL upside or had a bad camp, it means we have a very deep team and it's a numbers game.

Chipchura needs to continue to get better and next year he needs to force his way onto the roster full time, so he should see time in both leagues this year and hopefully he works hard next summer and comes to camp ready to land a job full time.

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10-17-2008, 07:20 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
I believe that if there was an option where they could continue the battle for the fourth line spot; i think the team would take it. However there isn't that option right now.
Wouldn't being part of the process be great ? Being able to sit in and hear the deliberations of what tilts them in favour of player A over player b, hearing what they've really said when a rumour hits the wire, knowing which guy had his name floated out there just to light a fire under him.

Some of the guys this year, how and why they're kept or not kept is so close it seems and we've got so many theories, I think it would be a good way to spend some time.

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10-17-2008, 07:33 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Wouldn't being part of the process be great ? Being able to sit in and hear the deliberations of what tilts them in favour of player A over player b, hearing what they've really said when a rumour hits the wire, knowing which guy had his name floated out there just to light a fire under him.

Some of the guys this year, how and why they're kept or not kept is so close it seems and we've got so many theories, I think it would be a good way to spend some time.
I agree... 99% of the posters here would love to be a fly on the wall for this... and 100% would love to be making their arguments in the room.

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10-17-2008, 09:10 PM
  #110
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I would have prefered if we moved Lapierrie to the 3rd line and call up Chipchura.
I highly doubt he's going to stay a Hab for very long, seeing how he has barely played.

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10-17-2008, 09:17 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
I would have prefered if we moved Lapierrie to the 3rd line and call up Chipchura.
I highly doubt he's going to stay a Hab for very long, seeing how he has barely played.
Where is he gonna go?? We own his rights... and next year he'll be on the team.

You prefer we didn't get Lang... really??

Okay...

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10-17-2008, 09:23 PM
  #112
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In the newest Hockey News the Team Reports section was about the new kids/rookies with each team and Montreal's was on Chipchura, written by Herb Zurkowsky (written before Chipchura was sent down, obviously). He wrote something like, "But Chipchura doesn't seem to have the confidence of his coach" and then quoted Carbo as saying "He's here. I can't say much more than that". Ouch? That was the first time I'd ever seen that quote from Carbo and it caught me kind of off-guard as being unexpectedly harsh. Maybe I'm reading too much into it though..

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10-17-2008, 09:37 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
I would have prefered if we moved Lapierrie to the 3rd line and call up Chipchura.
I highly doubt he's going to stay a Hab for very long, seeing how he has barely played.


Give me a break.

Lang has been playing great for us and Lapierre even though he has played well the last couple of games should be nowhere near a scoring line. I'm sure we would've got 7 out of our first possible 8 points with Lapierre centering our third line with Kostopoulos and Sergei.

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10-17-2008, 09:58 PM
  #114
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Give me a break.

Lang has been playing great for us and Lapierre even though he has played well the last couple of games should be nowhere near a scoring line. I'm sure we would've got 7 out of our first possible 8 points with Lapierre centering our third line with Kostopoulos and Sergei.
Johnny don't you get it... we must rebuild forever... never to take a chance at winning anything.... HOARD PROSPECTS and TRADE VETERANS... mwahahahahahahahaha...

I know this is is hockey's future.. but these posts always make me laugh.

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10-17-2008, 11:32 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Wouldn't being part of the process be great ? Being able to sit in and hear the deliberations of what tilts them in favour of player A over player b, hearing what they've really said when a rumour hits the wire, knowing which guy had his name floated out there just to light a fire under him.

Some of the guys this year, how and why they're kept or not kept is so close it seems and we've got so many theories, I think it would be a good way to spend some time.
ya man ... especially when you have guys like carbo and gainey running the show... I would love to sit down with them and talk about some decisions they've made...

the image that I have ( and I know it is only my image ) of carbo and gainey as coach vs Gm makes me think that in that case, if they thought one player was better than the other, a rookie contract wouldn't stand in their way ...

we can deliberate and explain our views, but what is even more interesting is sometimes the different images we have of the guys that are pulling the strings... sometimes the way you perceive carbo is partially responsible of the reality you create in your head... and it does shape an opinion.... and that's part of what makes it interesting...

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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
It's not just a contract but it's a place to start. Think back to when they sent A.Kostitsyn down to Hamilton for the 3rd time, imo he was ready for the NHL but it was a numbers game, and Kostitsyn ended up in Hamilton despite being NHL ready imo (he went on to be one of the top players in the AHL that year)

There are plenty of ways to create space for him and Dandenault is a good starting place but why make any moves when you can just as easily send Chip to the AHL especially when you start the year with 3 regulars out of the line and Dandy can play both forward and D. Add to that, we are talking about one of the top teams in the NHL, contrast to previous years when we would roll out 3-4 rookies each season, this year we need to have some vets around and can afford to keep the rookies in the AHL as it's not like Chipchura would be hurt by another year in the AHL but it doesn't mean he's not good, or doesn't have NHL upside or had a bad camp, it means we have a very deep team and it's a numbers game.

Chipchura needs to continue to get better and next year he needs to force his way onto the roster full time, so he should see time in both leagues this year and hopefully he works hard next summer and comes to camp ready to land a job full time.
You have a bunch of good points in there... we just have a different take on what is better for chipchura...

experience is very important , for any young player... but my conception ... or... the way I thought the organisation views chipchura is the only difference between our opinions I think...

what I think is that as soon as he will be fit for consistent duty, and that he will be sharp enough, carbo and Gainey, who I believe like him a lot , will find a spot for him on the roster...no matter what.

what makes me think that way is that in chipchura's case, the more nhl experience he gains, not only the better his learning curve will be... but cerebral players like him , given enough experience , can have long and endless careers in the nhl...

the way they moved lapierre out of the lineup last year really makes me think that Carbo and Gainey are waiting for the right time... but will pull the trigger as soon as they feel he could do the job for a whole season.

my previous post was simply about the fact that I don't think they would have sent him down if they had the conviction that he was clearly better than lapierre at this point in time... no matter what kind of contract both guys have, and the roster changes that would implicate.

chipchura is a project... I have a feeling we will still debate on that next year...

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10-18-2008, 01:46 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Erika Kostitsyn View Post
Finally, Chipchura is now where he belongs..... In the AHL !! His look on his face yesterday was just.... well.... sad....

Only good news is that he will make the Bulldogs a little bit stronger, which is good for our prospects.

I don't see any future for this guy with this team. There are way better players coming up next year. A slow defensive centerman that sucks at face-off ?! No thanks !!

I just hope that Gainey trade him while he still has some value left...

Include him in a package deal or something, because he isn't going to make this team anyways (this year of next) IMO.

I really like the Gaborik idea... something like Higgins + Chipchura + PK Subban might be a start...



Great idea... NOT.

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10-18-2008, 02:35 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Lappy is the 4th line centre because Chips is the only one who can go to hamilton without clearing waivers... and the only one who has a two way contract.
Well, technically Sergei is in the same boat, but he ain't going anywhere!

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10-18-2008, 02:38 AM
  #118
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Well, technically Sergei is in the same boat, but he ain't going anywhere!
Okay then I agree with Kovalev the great in some ways....

IF Chipchura was vastly superior to Lapierre then they would have found a place for him... but because the two of them are very close there is no reason to waive another player to make room.

How's that??

Sergei obviously fits in the category of vastly superior... Hes cracking our top 9 and has been great so far this year... and was really good last year.

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10-18-2008, 09:32 AM
  #119
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Okay,

Getting rid of a guy like Dandeneault, Brisebois, Begin, or anyone for that matter right now at the beginning of the season is counterproductive. Why deal away depth now? Guys that can step in and get along with everyone, guys that don't mind sitting till there is an injury or something to get them in the lineup. Teams are trying to accumulate depth right now so they can fix things internally during the season.

Chipchura is better than Dandeneault and everyone knows it but they bring different things to the table. Chipchura, because of his contract situation(age, salary, 2 way) is the guy that gets sent down to work on faceoffs etc, and Dandeneault sits in the stands in Montreal.

People are confused cause Dandeneault has already played, but he needed the games to get ready for the season. Chipchura was taking things in and getting some close up training by the coaching staff so that he can work on what he needs to in Hamilton till he is needed on the big club. Its called getting your depth ready for the long season. The young players will get their turn. If there is an injury to a center or a 4th liner in Montreal bet your a$$ Chips gets the call up. If Maxwell is playing great, he might get the nod if the injury is a pleks or koivu but other that, its Chips.
You don't trade away guys like this, he is young and learning his job. Have patience, don't just want a trade just cause he don't have a position on the big club.

Should Detroit get rid of Helm and Leino cause they didn't make the team? Should we trade Pac man cause he didn't stick with the big club?

Real contenders have guys like these in the wings itching for a callup.


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10-18-2008, 09:37 AM
  #120
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Didn't I predict this too? Oh yeah, I did.

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10-18-2008, 09:52 AM
  #121
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Didn't I predict this too? Oh yeah, I did.
Oh my godssss. YOur the best. How did you predict such a complicated thing?

seriously, could you please tell us how you came to such a conclusion way ahead of when it happened? we would all like to know, then maybe we might be able to generate such impressive predictions.

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10-18-2008, 11:36 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Erika Kostitsyn View Post
Finally, Chipchura is now where he belongs..... In the AHL !! His look on his face yesterday was just.... well.... sad....

Only good news is that he will make the Bulldogs a little bit stronger, which is good for our prospects.

I don't see any future for this guy with this team. There are way better players coming up next year. A slow defensive centerman that sucks at face-off ?! No thanks !!

I just hope that Gainey trade him while he still has some value left...

Include him in a package deal or something, because he isn't going to make this team anyways (this year of next) IMO.

I really like the Gaborik idea... something like Higgins + Chipchura + PK Subban might be a start...


Only in Mtl, Det, and possibly Pit does this guy end up on the farm

He will be on our roster full-time next year once there is room.

The play of Kostopoulos (I love that guy), and Laps (not so much) made it impossible to insert him into the lineup during the first few games

I will agree he needs to work on face-offs, but his positional play makes up for any perceived lack of speed. Lapierre BTW needs to be so fast to make up for the silly spots on the rink he finds himself but thats another topic completely.

That you look upon the demotion of a player to the minors as a vindication of your hockey sense speaks volumes.

Chips has plenty of trade value and will have for some time to come, if you think you know better that Bob then...



Why look to trade 3 young players who have character to burn and will someday (or currently) wear a C or A on their sweater regardless of who they play for.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 10-18-2008 at 11:49 AM. Reason: Were all those extra teach smiley's really needed?
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10-18-2008, 01:37 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
In the newest Hockey News the Team Reports section was about the new kids/rookies with each team and Montreal's was on Chipchura, written by Herb Zurkowsky (written before Chipchura was sent down, obviously). He wrote something like, "But Chipchura doesn't seem to have the confidence of his coach" and then quoted Carbo as saying "He's here. I can't say much more than that". Ouch? That was the first time I'd ever seen that quote from Carbo and it caught me kind of off-guard as being unexpectedly harsh. Maybe I'm reading too much into it though..
I think Carbo said that during the days leading up to the 1st game, when they hadn't really planned to keep him, and would send him down when Higgins and Laraque could play. It wasn't a camp, or pre season quote.

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Originally Posted by BigTimer View Post
Didn't I predict this too? Oh yeah, I did.
Didn't you predict that he couldn't fill the position that Lang's here to fill ? I don't remember much talk about whether he'd be in the mix for playing time as a 12,13,14th forward as there was a general assuption that Dandenault would be elsewhere.

I'd like to see Chipchura play 8-10 games with wingers who can play a 2 way game, Higgins, S.Kost. for example,[just to see how he'd look given the chance] but I wouldn't argue that he'd bring to the table what Lang can.

The kid got downsized imo, the role he's suited for doesn't really exist on the team right now.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 10-18-2008 at 01:44 PM.
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10-18-2008, 01:43 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by BigTimer View Post
Didn't I predict this too? Oh yeah, I did.
WOW....

Guess what I predict that Dandenault will not score 10 goals this season... and Kovalev will score some number that is more than 10.

I'm gonna come back in April and tell you what a genius I was for this revolutionary prediction.

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