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Tanguay Or Kovalev?

View Poll Results: Who do the habs retain next season?
Alex Tanguay 83 56.85%
Alex Kovalev 63 43.15%
Voters: 146. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-19-2008, 03:45 PM
  #26
Shabutie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ape Clutch View Post
I can see us signing all 3

If these 3 are intelligent (which they are) they are all gonna take a home town discount

12 for all 3 of them, It can happen and I will dream the dream
4m a piece? Are you kidding me. That's .5m more than A.Kostitsyn for guys who have been in the league for 10+ years? If Gainey offers that to either of them, he'll be laughed at.

Imo we might be able to sign Koivu for 5m, Tanguay and Kovalev will get 5.5 or more.

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Old
10-19-2008, 03:45 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
He never said anything about Koivu being moved. Regardless, I don't want to see Koivu gone at all but we do have Chipchura and Maxwell who could both be ready for offensive roles at center.
He did say Koivu is gone next year. which means probably not resigned

but by the time I was talking about Koivu being moved it was more of a refference to "people" who we offering him up to go and play with his younger brother...

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10-19-2008, 03:47 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
I would not put the name "Chipchura" and the word "offensive" in the same sentence. Jason Ward and Chad Kilger are the types of players that Chipchura is closer to in style and talent.

As for Maxwell, let's wait until his first pro season in Hamilton ta make a real judgement on his abilities and possibilities to make the NHL soon.
Why, because he has been officially deemed "defensive"? Last year he showed flashed of above average vision and offensive capabilities.

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Old
10-19-2008, 03:47 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
No, he could be implying that they would let him walk.
So they would let Koivu walk to sign Kovalev and Tanguay.

Do you think that Gainey would honestly let Koivu walk in favor of one of these two other guys?

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10-19-2008, 03:48 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
4m a piece? Are you kidding me. That's .5m more than A.Kostitsyn for guys who have been in the league for 10+ years? If Gainey offers that to either of them, he'll be laughed at.

Imo we might be able to sign Koivu for 5m, Tanguay and Kovalev will get 5.5 or more.

The way i see it is that with the recession coming Gainey will point out in negotiations that the cap is going to go down, these guys are not dumb imo and neither is Gainey he cannot spend to the cap next year because he won't be able to maintain it the year after.

Then again Bettman could come up with something crazy and hack all salaries by a certain percentage like they did to fit everyone under the cap post lockout?

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Old
10-19-2008, 03:48 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
4m a piece? Are you kidding me. That's .5m more than A.Kostitsyn for guys who have been in the league for 10+ years? If Gainey offers that to either of them, he'll be laughed at.

Imo we might be able to sign Koivu for 5m, Tanguay and Kovalev will get 5.5 or more.
Why should Koivu and Kovalev get raises four years later than thier last contracts. Kovalev will be 38, Koivu 35....Gainey knows this and will use leverage to get cheaper contracts.

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10-19-2008, 03:50 PM
  #32
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The devil you know, man. The devil you know.

OK, it's a bad analogy, but I'm not keen on letting go of a player that's been instrumental for us in the post season & holding on to a guy that's looked great for 5 games but garnered a rep for being somewhat soft the past few years.

I just think changing the guard would be a big mistake at this point.

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Old
10-19-2008, 03:50 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
So they would let Koivu walk to sign Kovalev and Tanguay.

Do you think that Gainey would honestly let Koivu walk in favor of one of these two other guys?
No man, I already stated I don't want Koivu to leave and I don't think Gainey would let him walk. However, you were putting words into TheDamned mouth, so I was trying to clarify something.

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10-19-2008, 03:50 PM
  #34
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Accidently voted for Tanguay.

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Old
10-19-2008, 03:51 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Why should Koivu and Kovalev get raises four years later than thier last contracts. Kovalev will be 38, Koivu 35....Gainey knows this and will use leverage to get cheaper contracts.
Because the cap and average salaries have raised? Because their performances have been better?

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Old
10-19-2008, 03:52 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Ape Clutch View Post
I can see us signing all 3

If these 3 are intelligent (which they are) they are all gonna take a home town discount

12 for all 3 of them, It can happen and I will dream the dream
I can't see Tanguay re-signing for less than $5M. He's young and will be looking for a big contract in his prime.

If Koivu and Kovalev were to be given twin contracts of $4.5M per, the situation would be tight but we could re-sign all three.

The only problem is with the promotions to the RFAs you'd have essentially the same team going into next year as this year minus Lang and no real improvement on the defensive end. The team needs to find another center, preferably a young one who will fill the void when Koivu eventually retires, and it may be at the expense of one of Tanguay or Kovalev.

I also wouldn't mind going after one or both of Cole and Beauchemin in the off-season if they do become UFAs...

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Old
10-19-2008, 03:52 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
No man, I already stated I don't want Koivu to leave and I don't think Gainey would let him walk. However, you were putting words into TheDamned mouth, so I was trying to clarify something.
How was I putting words into TheDamned's mouth? He said Koivu would be gone, which is exactly what I echoed...Whether or not TheDamned is saying that we will deal Koivu or simply not re-sign him...neither you or I know.

However, we both believe that Koivu will be kept.

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Old
10-19-2008, 03:56 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
4m a piece? Are you kidding me. That's .5m more than A.Kostitsyn for guys who have been in the league for 10+ years? If Gainey offers that to either of them, he'll be laughed at.

Imo we might be able to sign Koivu for 5m, Tanguay and Kovalev will get 5.5 or more.
I think at this point in his career Koivu's main priority is to win a cup therefore I would not expect him to ask for an increase from his current salary, which would restrict our chances to put together a better team.

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Old
10-19-2008, 04:00 PM
  #39
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It's real simple here guys, you sign Kovalev & Koivu both to 3-year, FRONT-loaded contracts. I think these guys can both be locked up a good value, similar to their current cap hits, so long as do this. Kovalev & Koivu will both still be effective 3 years from now.

Tanguay, providing he plays at this pace all year, we can give a 5 year 5.5-6.5 cap hit deal to.

It'll be tough to fit in everyone, I think the real question is how big a raise Plekanec/Komisarek can get.

Let's not be delusional, SOMEONE will be off our roster, either at the deadline, draft day, or during free agency. We won't keep everyone.

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Old
10-19-2008, 04:05 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoHabsGo247 View Post
It's real simple here guys, you sign Kovalev & Koivu both to 3-year, FRONT-loaded contracts. I think these guys can both be locked up a good value, similar to their current cap hits, so long as do this. Kovalev & Koivu will both still be effective 3 years from now.

Tanguay, providing he plays at this pace all year, we can give a 5 year 5.5-6.5 cap hit deal to.
With our current limited cap space. Both players may be looking for a raise if they do play very well during the season, since we are only 5 games in, saying anything about signing players is too early. We also have many other ufa at the end of the season that need resigning, namely Komi who I believe will leave unless given what he wants, which everyone already knows...
This isn't as simple as you think.

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10-19-2008, 04:07 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Cupmonger View Post
With our current limited cap space. Both players may be looking for a raise if they do play very well during the season, since we are only 5 games in, saying anything about signing players is too early. We also have many other ufa at the end of the season that need resigning, namely Komi who I believe will leave unless given what he wants, which everyone already knows...
This isn't as simple as you think.
Kovalev & Koivu are too old to get raises, end of story. They can both walk if they want the moon.

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Old
10-19-2008, 04:07 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
Someone should try to come up with a scenario where we could sign both of these guys AND Higgins, Plekanec, Komisarek, Koivu, Chipchura, Latendresse... Cuz from my calculations it is very much impossible.
Okay, I'll take a stab at it, with a 22 man roster:

Tanguay (5.5M) - Koivu (4.8M)- Latendresse (1.5 M)
A. Kosty (3.3M) - Pleks (4.0 M) - Kovalev (5.5M)
Higgins (3.7M)- Maxwell (850 K)- S. Kost (800 K)
Max Pac (875 K)- Lapierre (687 K )- Laraque (1.5M)
Chipchura (800 K)

Markov (5.75 M) - Komisarek (4.5M)
Hamrlik (5.5 M) - O'Byrne (941 K)
Gorges (1.1 M) - Weber (875 K)
Valentenko (850 K)

Price (2.2M)
Halak (775 K)

Total: $56.5 million

So it's possible but pretty tight, if the cap doesn't go up next year.

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10-19-2008, 04:08 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoHabsGo247 View Post
It's real simple here guys, you sign Kovalev & Koivu both to 3-year, FRONT-loaded contracts. I think these guys can both be locked up a good value, similar to their current cap hits, so long as do this. Kovalev & Koivu will both still be effective 3 years from now.
Let's wait and see what Kovalev does this year before we say something such as this... It is very much possible that we don't see the same Kovalev we saw last year. Imo Gainey will negotiate with Koivu during the season and wait till he sees more from Kovalev.

Reading an RDS article today and I couldn't help but laugh...
Quote:
"Il travaille mais pas toujours de la bonne façon", dit Carbo, toujours prudent lorsqu'il commente le jeu de son joueur-vedette.
Kovalev's reputation as an ego-maniac continues to grow... Maybe Gainey should have another talk with the guy.

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10-19-2008, 04:08 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Cupmonger View Post
With our current limited cap space. Both players may be looking for a raise if they do play very well during the season, since we are only 5 games in, saying anything about signing players is too early. We also have many other ufa at the end of the season that need resigning, namely Komi who I believe will leave unless given what he wants, which everyone already knows...
This isn't as simple as you think.
I'm not worried about Komisarek, he will be resigned during the season.

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10-19-2008, 04:10 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigM View Post
Okay, I'll take a stab at it, with a 22 man roster:

Tanguay (5.5M) - Koivu (4.8M)- Latendresse (1.5 M)
A. Kosty (3.3M) - Pleks (4.0 M) - Kovalev (5.5M)
Higgins (3.7M)- Maxwell (850 K)- S. Kost (800 K)
Max Pac (875 K)- Lapierre (687 K )- Laraque (1.5M)
Chipchura (800 K)

Markov (5.75 M) - Komisarek (4.5M)
Hamrlik (5.5 M) - O'Byrne (941 K)
Gorges (1.1 M) - Weber (875 K)
Valentenko (850 K)

Price (2.2M)
Halak (775 K)

Total: $56.5 million

So it's possible but pretty tight, if the cap doesn't go up next year.
Looks relatively in check with what I expect...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
Let's wait and see what Kovalev does this year before we say something such as this... It is very much possible that we don't see the same Kovalev we saw last year. Imo Gainey will negotiate with Koivu during the season and wait till he sees more from Kovalev.

Reading an RDS article today and I couldn't help but laugh...

Kovalev's reputation as an ego-maniac continues to grow... Maybe Gainey should have another talk with the guy.
Did I say to sign him now?

I have Kovy in my avatar so I must be one of his groupies? That it? Obviously we need to see what he does this season.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 10-19-2008 at 05:37 PM.
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Old
10-19-2008, 04:14 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by GoHabsGo247 View Post
Did I say to sign him now?

I have Kovy in my avatar so I must be one of his groupies? That it? Obviously we need to see what he does this season.
Hey hey, I was just commenting on what you said. You said that he could be effective 3 seasons from now...I don't believe that to be the case.

Anyway I don't think Kovalev will be effective as S.Kost or A.Kost as of next year.

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10-19-2008, 04:19 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
Hey hey, I was just commenting on what you said. You said that he could be effective 3 seasons from now...I don't believe that to be the case.

Anyway I don't think Kovalev will be effective as S.Kost or A.Kost as of next year.
Fair enough.

I'd be willing to bet Kovalev would take a discount to continue playing here, even if he has another great year. Tanguay probably would to, depending how he likes playing here. Kovalev obviously LIKES playing here.

Do you think Koivu will be more effective in 3 years then Kovalev? I'd be very surprised. Kovalev doesn't rely on speed for his game, losing a gear doesn't effect his game nearly as much as it does with alot of the older players. He is the most dangerous player in the NHL at a slow speed, as long as he can keep his hands, he'll be an effective player. Don't get me wrong, I like Koivu... He'll have to rely far more on his positioning 3 years from now, when he loses a few steps.

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Old
10-19-2008, 04:22 PM
  #48
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Kovalev, will likely be cheaper because of his age and he still has a lot left in the tank.

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10-19-2008, 04:32 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by GoHabsGo247 View Post
Do you think Koivu will be more effective in 3 years then Kovalev? I'd be very surprised. Kovalev doesn't rely on speed for his game, losing a gear doesn't effect his game nearly as much as it does with alot of the older players. He is the most dangerous player in the NHL at a slow speed, as long as he can keep his hands, he'll be an effective player. Don't get me wrong, I like Koivu... He'll have to rely far more on his positioning 3 years from now, when he loses a few steps.
Which commentator said that again?

Anywho, do I believe that Koivu will be more effective? Yes, I do.

Even if he weren't, we are much more stacked on the wings then at center. Personally I think it's more a matter of will our wingers/centers be more effective than Kovalev/Koivu.


As for the slow thing...it's something that's bothered me since Kovalev got here. He slows his linemates down. With two guys as explosive as Kostitsyn and Plekanec, I don't feel they are being used to their full potential.

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10-19-2008, 04:37 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
Which commentator said that again?

Anywho, do I believe that Koivu will be more effective? Yes, I do.

Even if he weren't, we are much more stacked on the wings then at center. Personally I think it's more a matter of will our wingers/centers be more effective than Kovalev/Koivu.


As for the slow thing...it's something that's bothered me since Kovalev got here. He slows his linemates down. With two guys as explosive as Kostitsyn and Plekanec, I don't feel they are being used to their full potential.
Several have said it, and its blantantly obvious.

I have a hard time believing he slows down Plekanec or Kostitsyn. They feed off of him. Andrei can create things on his own, we all know that. Plekanec on the other hand, is very complimentary.

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