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Old
07-01-2004, 01:46 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Afinogenov = Blake, eh? How may 25 goal seasons has Afinogenov had? How many times has he been voted your team's MVP? Is he the guy you sent over the boards in the last minute of a game?

Sorry, dude, you know I think you are an excellent poster but that is a pretty biased perspective.

I don't even think he is close to being Kvasha's equal. Kvasha outscored him by something like 15 goals last year, despite being used primarily in a defensive role.

Afinogenov's linemates for most of the year was Derek Roy and Milan Bartovic....Affy was getting 3rd line minutes,and 2nd line PP time.Afinogenov paired on the top line with Satan and Briere could get him 30 goals if the situation is right.

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07-01-2004, 01:48 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Afinogenov = Blake, eh? How may 25 goal seasons has Afinogenov had? How many times has he been voted your team's MVP? Is he the guy you sent over the boards in the last minute of a game?

Sorry, dude, you know I think you are an excellent poster but that is a pretty biased perspective.

I don't even think he is close to being Kvasha's equal. Kvasha outscored him by something like 15 goals last year, despite being used primarily in a defensive role.
How did Kvasha outscore Max by 15 goals, wasn't he injured most of the season??

Your right, Max isn't better than Blake...

Although, Max and Blake are equally valued to their own team IMO, I should have probably stated that in my 1st post...

Darcy and Ruff are really high on Max, although they have yet to plug him in on the 1st line, where IMO he would reach atleast 30 goals...

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Old
07-01-2004, 01:51 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
Afinogenov's linemates for most of the year was Derek Roy and Milan Bartovic....Affy was getting 3rd line minutes,and 2nd line PP time.Afinogenov paired on the top line with Satan and Briere could get him 30 goals if the situation is right.
This is your typical kind of argument.

And, when he actually scores 30 goals he'll be a 30 goal scorer. Right now, he is a soft, inconsistent 15 goal scorer who can't pass the puck and plays lousy defense and who is PROJECTED at a higher level by a few less-than-objective observers.

This is the same arguments you've offered for Satan and others. Players are judged by what they have accomplished, not by what home town fans project them to do under better circumstances.

And, by the way, the "offensively challenged" Islanders have been in the top third in scoring for the last three seasons, despite injuries to their top two centers.

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07-01-2004, 01:52 PM
  #29
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Hmmm... Sabre homerism runs rampant in this thread.

I agree on one point: as Moskau stated, Max isn't soft. Not blood-n-guts gritty, but the kid has some gumption and mean in him that shows up on the ice.

As for the proposal, I don't see how it works for either Buffalo or the Islanders. NYI give up the best player in the deal, since it seems CBJ fans aren't willing to offer anything substantive, Buffalo gives up the second best player in the deal, and the Jackets aren't yielding anything.

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07-01-2004, 01:59 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot
Hmmm... Sabre homerism runs rampant in this thread.

I agree on one point: as Moskau stated, Max isn't soft. Not blood-n-guts gritty, but the kid has some gumption and mean in him that shows up on the ice.

As for the proposal, I don't see how it works for either Buffalo or the Islanders. NYI give up the best player in the deal, since it seems CBJ fans aren't willing to offer anything substantive, Buffalo gives up the second best player in the deal, and the Jackets aren't yielding anything.
good assessment. I think the Jackets would give up a pick or two, but no prospects.

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Old
07-01-2004, 02:08 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot
Hmmm... Sabre homerism runs rampant in this thread.

I agree on one point: as Moskau stated, Max isn't soft. Not blood-n-guts gritty, but the kid has some gumption and mean in him that shows up on the ice.

As for the proposal, I don't see how it works for either Buffalo or the Islanders. NYI give up the best player in the deal, since it seems CBJ fans aren't willing to offer anything substantive, Buffalo gives up the second best player in the deal, and the Jackets aren't yielding anything.

How bout Marchant, I know Buffalo was interested in him when he was a free agent, and Columbus has Malhotra and Fritsche to take his spot on the third line.

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07-01-2004, 02:18 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyMan9
How bout Marchant, I know Buffalo was interested in him when he was a free agent, and Columbus has Malhotra and Fritsche to take his spot on the third line.
No fowards will be coming back to Buffalo in any deals they do this offseason. Unless it's 2 for 1.

I heard Zherdev wants Lindy Ruff to coach him, it was in some Russian magazine.

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07-01-2004, 03:02 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdoak
As a side note,Weinhedl and Kvasha still don't impress me much, and are at par at best with Afinogenov in terms of NHL accomplishments.


as somebody already pointed out,Afinogenov would add some needed speed, but Weinhandl impresses the isles and with Kvasha coming off his first 50 pt season,I think the isles want to keep him in the top 6.

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07-01-2004, 03:14 PM
  #34
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Max is a fairly fiesty winger on the up. extremely fast. no deal with NYI here. i dont really want to trade max. Dumont or kotalik yes, max no.

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07-01-2004, 04:00 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islandermaniac
does this come from blakes comments about wanting to play one day again for the columbus ass. coach? if it does, it means nothing. by the way, afinogenov is no where close to blake in terms of value especially when you consider that blake makes peanuts. blake won't be moved for his comments.

just a general aside: could people stop suggesting afinogenov to the isles? please? he simply does not address a single islander need.

just one man's opinion.
Make that two. Agree 100%.

On the Islander Mania board, words like "Insubordination" and "dissed the organization" were misused to describe Blake's harmless throwaway quote to a local Minnesota paper. Don't know whether such over-reaction is funny or sad.

Are we so thin-skinned and persecuted?


Last edited by Trottier: 07-01-2004 at 04:04 PM.
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Old
07-01-2004, 07:51 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
Maxim isn't soft.He's actually quite feisty...and I'm sure an offensive dynamo team like the Isles can't use a young 20 goal scorer with sick speed.
but why would we give up a 25 goal scorer with sick speed to get him?

especially when the 25 goal scorer has been far more consistent over the past couple years, and is also a very accomplished defensive player and among the best PKers in the league, and does this all while still being one of the better agitator/pest players in the league. And when said 20 goal scorer has only scored 20 goals once in his career and that was two years ago, it makes it a no brainer that the Isles are better off with Blake.

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07-02-2004, 03:39 PM
  #37
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i wouldnt want Blake, im happy with Max. Max put up decent totals with only 13:45 TOI/G. coming of a ruined concussion season, i respect his totals. he improved alot as a defensive player but still has more work. i would like to see more from him in the future, hence me prefering him over Blake.

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Old
07-02-2004, 03:47 PM
  #38
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Can't argue with that logic. If you think Afinogenov has that kind of upside, then it really wouldn't make sense to trade him for a third-line type like Blake.

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Old
07-02-2004, 11:39 PM
  #39
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1) We can't make any deal involving Jason Blake. Because we can't get equal value for our team. Blake is one of the hard workers and clubhouse leaders (troubling as that may be percieved by some members of the press) on this team and is scoring for little money. True, he is due a raise, but can you think of a harder worker and more productive player we can get for him? Like Adrian Aucoin, we should only deal Blake if he makes it clear that he doesn't want to be an Islander any more.

2) Sandy is out of the question, he makes to much $$$ for the Isles. We need to save, not spend (see: point 1.)

3) Maxim Afinogenov would be in our top 5. While he is inferior to Parrish, Peca, Yashin, Hunter and Kvasha, it is hypocritical of Isles fans to say that claiming Max as a 20 goal scorer is unrealistic because it is based on potential while making similar claims about Weinhandl. As much promise as he showed working with Yashin, injuries have kept Mats from proving much on the NHL level, and he is anything but a sure thing as an Islander staple.

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07-02-2004, 11:52 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Henry I
Blake is one of the hard workers and clubhouse leaders (troubling as that may be percieved by some members of the press)


I agree Blake's one of the hardest workers on the team,but how do you figure Blake's a clubhouse leader?

He's had scuffles with Hamrlik and Niinimaa,has the rep for being abrasive and was called out 2x this season by Sterling for his selfish puckhogging.The 2nd time it happened was in Philly,where he was benched,then after the game tried dragging teammates into the situation,complaining about the benching.

that's not a clubhouse leader.

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07-03-2004, 12:03 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
I agree Blake's one of the hardest workers on the team,but how do you figure Blake's a clubhouse leader?

He's had scuffles with Hamrlik and Niinimaa,has the rep for being abrasive and was called out 2x this season by Sterling for his selfish puckhogging.The 2nd time it happened was in Philly,where he was benched,then after the game tried dragging teammates into the situation,complaining about the benching.

that's not a clubhouse leader.
By the fact that he had scuffles you know that he gives a damn about what happens to the team, which is more than you can say about a lot of our players.

As for the puck-hogging, he was benched more for his poor decision making than not passing. Stirling has said that there is no problem with him holding onto the puck so long as he knows when to get rid of it, which is, sadly, a trait that Blake often seems to lack. Also, he is one of the more active members of the team regarding the media, which is usually a sign of leadership.

I suppose instead of clubhouse leader I meant a clubhouse *activist.*

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07-03-2004, 10:06 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Henry I
By the fact that he had scuffles you know that he gives a damn about what happens to the team, which is more than you can say about a lot of our players.

As for the puck-hogging, he was benched more for his poor decision making than not passing. Stirling has said that there is no problem with him holding onto the puck so long as he knows when to get rid of it, which is, sadly, a trait that Blake often seems to lack. Also, he is one of the more active members of the team regarding the media, which is usually a sign of leadership.

I suppose instead of clubhouse leader I meant a clubhouse *activist.*
The scuffle with Hamrlik came during pregame warmups, when Hamrlik thought Blake was being reckless shooting the puck.I'm not sure what was behind the scuffle with Niinimaa.There's no proof these scuffles came about because Blake cared about the team.

You say that it was his decision making that led to his benchings.
I agree.His decision to hold onto the puck,not pass to teammates.

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Old
07-03-2004, 01:07 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Henry I
3) Maxim Afinogenov would be in our top 5. While he is inferior to Parrish, Peca, Yashin, Hunter and Kvasha, it is hypocritical of Isles fans to say that claiming Max as a 20 goal scorer is unrealistic because it is based on potential while making similar claims about Weinhandl. As much promise as he showed working with Yashin, injuries have kept Mats from proving much on the NHL level, and he is anything but a sure thing as an Islander staple.
Question: Where do you see any poster describing Weinhandl as a "20 goal scorer". All anybody said was that Afinogenov was not a given (or even likely) to play in front of him.

Afinogenov is not really an optimal third line player. You'd want a big and stronger guy in that role. And, he isnt' going to play in our top six. So, why would we want him?

I always appreciate the balance in your posts, btw.

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07-03-2004, 05:45 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Question: Where do you see any poster describing Weinhandl as a "20 goal scorer". All anybody said was that Afinogenov was not a given (or even likely) to play in front of him.

Afinogenov is not really an optimal third line player. You'd want a big and stronger guy in that role. And, he isnt' going to play in our top six. So, why would we want him?

I always appreciate the balance in your posts, btw.
It came from your comment about him not being able to beat out Weinhandl for a top 6 spot. But mostly I just feel that Weinhandl is overrated on the Isles boards, as good potential as he may have shown. A lot of Isles fans seem to think that he is deserving of an immediate try on the top 2 lines to see if he can be a big scorer, whereas I think that somebody like Arron Asham, who's worked hard on our bottom lines and shown some promise deserves the chance more. No discredit to Mats though; I believe that a Weinhandl-Yashin-Bergenheim line could be lethal in the near future.

And btw, thanks. I try to stay balanced, lest I start to believe that Mad Mike will solve the teams' problems

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07-03-2004, 06:36 PM
  #45
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First of all, there is no clubhouse in hockey, just a lockeroom.

Second, Blake, or any other player, is a "leader" by what he does on the ice. Read: He PRODUCES. Regularly, in all areas of the rink.

Ask any professional athlete what they respect most from peers. Answer: winning and production. (Effort is inherent in both.)

Fans get waaaaaaay too caught up in rah-rah cliches written in fishwraps, or the "C" or "A" on a jersey, whos' likable, etc.

Sorry, Knute Rockne is dead. Leadership is important. But the #1 attribute of leadership is performance.

Guess what? Brad Richards is a now a CERTIFIED LEADER. If, by some chance, Jason Blake had the opportunity to produce for more than a couple of token playoff games each spring, and did so, he, too, would be a recognized leader. Even if he doesn't possess a GQ personality.

The greatest leader in modern hockey was/is not necessarily the nicest guy on earth. He certainly was not chummy with all of his teammates through the years (ask Mike Gartner). He led on the ice. End of story. Not making any comparisons between Blake and Mark Messier whatsoever, just pointing out the obvious.

Is Blake tradable? Of course. But he brings a lot to a team. A lot more than his own 20 goals a year.

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